No time now to really give these posts the attention they deserve.

I do want to say though, that I am not planning on throwing out the baby with the bathwater, nor am I planning to continue to invest in everything Jach has served up on his poisoned plate.

Many of the "truths" Jach provides stem from ancient belief systems, some from more modern schools, like Jungian psychology.

I no more want to believe that everything Jach says is wrong than I want to believe it is all correct. It actually doesn't matter much to me at this point. I'm not interested in Jach's teachings anymore or anyone else's for that matter.

Over these past months I have learned a lot about my own mind, and the human mind in general. I have learned that people, myself included, have a profound tendency to latch onto whatever beliefs suit them in the moment. Our recent political and social history show me that.

When OJ was accused of murdering his wife, for example, the thought of yet another black man unjustly accused bristled most blacks in this country. Therefore, no amount of evidence could "prove" to many of them that he did in fact kill Nicole. To many of us, the evidence overwhelmingly proved his guilt, to those who had other agendas, the evidence was all fabricated. Our country divided just about equally along racial lines over the issue. That is not because the evidence was difficult to absorb, it was because our country is divided racially, and this state of consciousness dramatically revealed itself in the way we all interpreted and invested in the information provided.

The same with the recent election. To Al Gore supporters the election was stolen and unjust. To Bush supporters, the system worked and all is well.

What are the facts of these situations, and how do we come to a place of "truth" about emotional issues like these? Why do so many intelligent people see things so differently?

We can fight, insult, debate, discuss, manipulate, whatever, until the cows come home. There is a Truth about these issues, no matter how divided we are on them, no matter how uncomfortable it might be for those who don't want the Truth to be what it is.

To me the problem is really that most of us really have not developed a strong integrity of thought. We let others think for us, and we respond in a positive way to the perspective which suits us emotionally. If it feels good, we believe it, if it doesn't we reject it.

No one understands this mechanism of the mind better than cult leaders. They feed us information which feels good, which suits our emotional needs in the moment. They lace fact with fiction, the ultimate goal being to create a loyal fanatical following.

It has been pointed out over and over that not everything cults serve up is wrong or untrue. Something within the teachings has to work for us, especially in the beginning.

Once we are hooked, the teachings can get as bizarre and crazy as the cult leader wants.
The followers are too mezmerized and too convinced to even bother with discrimination.

Anyway, I am now investing in learning to study the "facts", put them in a larger context, and have the strength of character to know when I am wrong. That also allows for me to be confident when I am right. That kind of confidence in myself can only come from the exercise of humility, and from a strong and firm committment to settling for nothing less than the Truth no matter how painful it might be. It was enormously painful and embarrassing to me to admit that I no longer believe in Lazaris.

One thing about the New Age that strikes me is that there is NO investment or belief in an Ultimate Truth. This childish, mindless, feel good way of looking at things makes for a huge pool of easy marks. This point was argued with me on a New Age message board by a mystery poster about whose identity I have already drawn my own conclusions. Under the guise of love and compassion, this woman argued the existance of the Truth, and the inability of anyone to know or declare that there is such a thing.

Interestingly though, those who form these New Age cults do demand and expect that followers will accept the Truth of them and their teachings without question. So, again, we have an investment in Truth, as long as the Truth works for us.

As Ted says, though, the strength behind our idealism will allow us to get it right.

Maybe the Truth is vast enough to incorporate a billion ways of looking at it.
In the end though, the Truth is what we all seek, and the only way to find it in my opinion is through the exercise of discrimination and strength of character. That is a private and personal quest, and ultimately, no one can hand the Truth to another.

The greatest teachers are those who teach by example, not by dogma. So, I will follow the example of those whose lives and relationships reflect the qualities to which I aspire. That's really the only interest I have in knowing what anyone else believes. How does it manifest in their own life?

Maybe I'll end with a line from my favorite Fab Four.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Sorry if this is rambling, I'm stealing time I can't really afford right now.

Love and Holiday Peace to all.

In a past post I mentioned books by Napoleon Hill that he wrote on Success, and that I thought Jach learned some of the "success" techniques from that area because N.H.'s good friend was W.Clement Stone, head of that big insurance group...I was surprised to see him and his writings mentioned on the Course Description page of the Silva site!

Just something I thought was synchronistic...

Love you all,

Yeah, makes my Scottish / German Blood boil too...remember that tape where L. was saying "consider the source" in a reference to listening to your bitter ole' granma about how to be happy etc. well, he put it out there that you should look at how well those prosteletizers are doing...blah blah..

But that's the way that jach**ss was ever so aptly able to distance himself from what was being discussed...he didn't say it at all did he...
This is not to say I didn't listen with rapt attention when the orb was talking about specific brain chemistry, and seritonin issues and mental pethways etc. in a shame tape I believe.Cuz I thought that it was some great knowledge about our inner workings that L. could tap into...but when he said that AIDS was caused by a tweaked form of Syphillus, I recognized that from a book I'd picked up in a healthfood store... anyway...Had I listened to any info from the orb had to say about diet/excercise, I would probably have thought, as many may also do... well, jach and peny, and all those other jabba-beingsat con-sin, cannot get offa their lazy asses and put ANY of that Lazardo stuff into practise. But that is also precisely how they hide don't they, those as***oles just hide behind this etheric being s***t. and they don't have to take any responsablity for any of it.....

The question as to where Con:Sin claims the Lazaris materials came from is answered by the fact that they are all copyrighted.

If you or I were to "lift" this wisdom, we would be sued by Con:Sin.

How can you copyright Universal Truth and Wisdom? Beats me, but in doing so, it is clear that these teachings and utterings are
deemed to be the sole possession of Lazaris via Con:Sin. L may have at one time or another copped to the fact that they weren't the only being in the Universe to have noticed these things, but they are still copyrighted and jealously guarded by the hounds at Con:Sin as though L is the only source of true wisdom, and somehow that gives some humans the right to own and profit from the material.

Copyright is about money, nothing else. Why would Lazaris want his teachings to be sold?

Doesn't that strike you as at all odd?

I remember Lazaris saying they were from realms beyond all the realms on which the "gods of our earth" exist, or some such nonsense. When asked for a specific realm, they give us this adolescent crap of "pick a number and we'll be there". Jach's arrogance knows no bounds.

Lazaris also claimed to be the first to speak of the Causal Plane. Not so - Paramahansa Yogananda mentions in the Autobiography of a Yogi. (Which, BTW, Peny admits to having read) If anyone is interested in the Causal Plane, I would suggest they read Yogananda's work, rather than getting the information from some sleazeball who claims to channel. Yogananda did his homework and, IMO, had/has no ulterior motive.

I wonder if this "Michael" (clever name) ever allows other "essences" to join his cult, or is it limited to 1050? Do they huddle before a channeling session to decide what they're going to talk about?

Sorry for the cynicism. But, as they say, "so many channels, and still nothing on".

More thoughts on your post. Your theory about Peny's private scientist is also very interesting. Many, many times she alluded to this mysterious counsellor of hers, and implied that he was a big supporter of Lazaris and Con:Sin, kind of quietly working behind the scenes to provide scientific validation to the Lazaris teachings, etc.

Peny was really big on credentials. Since her advanced degree was awarded by some dubious disembodied institution, I guess she craved some more earthly forms of validation.

Have you ever asked this man if he spoke to Peny, or mentioned that she may have been "using" his information, and possibly even crediting some of it to Lazaris?

I think you've stumbled (mined) one more piece of the Friend or Fraud puzzle.

I just noticed that the Lazaris site public library does not contain articles by Peny on progesterone, in which she plays doctor big big time. Are they in the private library, or have they been completely removed? They were there when we started writing our posts about how illegal it was to have them there.

Anyone up for reporting back about whether or not those articles are still on the private part of the Lazaris site?

dogstar, do you think it's possible that the timing of your questions corresponded to our discussions here, and that Peny might have been suspicious to find out if you were a plant. Might that explain her e-mail interest in you?

Also, I wasn't clear from your post whether it was Peny or someone else doing the emailing. Do you still have those mails by any chance?

No worries about the length of your post, you are being very clear.

Katie

Here's another article I found about time.
Maybe this will help.

This was never a Lazaris concept that grabbed me one way or the other, so I don't have much of an opinion about it.

Anyway, here it is:

http://www.time-travel.com/istimail.htm

Interesting about the NLP info being "lifted" , just one more reality check on how NOT original anything outta jachasses mouth seems to have been.

Here's an interesting one for the log...

Kate Bush; CD- "The red shoes" great piece of work by a great artist (IMO):smile:

anyway, one of the tracks on that cd is an exact (musical) rendition of the "banish negativity" meditation!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Executed by her with MUCH more ENERGY, and Intensity!!!!!!!!!!

Kate Bush is celtic, and this is surrounding yourself with fire, then point in each of the four directions calling out a name of an angel, Micheal, Uriel, Gabrielle, Rafael.
anyway when I heard that song I flipped, I knew Kate does not follow Bizzarus, I just knew it..... so it musta been that Bizzarus had "lifted" a celtic post-pagan ritual.

my head was spinning, and when I mentioned it to Katie and Ted, we all came to some sort of cultified justification, to make it OK....

but each time I'd hear that song, I can't help but think that Jachass though he was soooooo smart, and NO-ONE would know he'd stolen that oh-so-cool ritual.

(I hope I did the "quote" thing properly!) Anyway, the context of this comment is as follows, and this is also why I prefaced it by noting that it is hearsay.

Back in the CompuServe forum days this friend of my was prominent in the Seth section. I am no longer in touch with her, so I can't offer any more details, but she and I both knew a few members of Jane Roberts' class, and we were in touch with Rob Butts (Jane's husband). When we would go into the J&L section, several followers of Lazaris would say "but Seth recommended Lazaris, how can you disagree with what Lazaris has to say?"

Well, this is a multifaceted question and it implies that the utterings of any self-declared channeled entity are always valid from the get-go. Nevertheless, my friend and I both knew the statement regarding Seth to be untrue, and we had source material to prove it. So, in the context of these discussions she mentioned the chronology and that she had attended the same class in developing psychic ability that Jach had. She had been living in the Bay area at the time.

As she considered herself a "professional psychic" amd since even the most open-minded New Age advocates resist intense analytical questioning (it's a psychological house of cards if you probe too deeply), I just let the matter drop, satisfied that the J&L people were being fed a line by someone.

Sorry I can't offer more, but validity of this piece of information will have to be established, or refuted, by someone else.

Regards,

George