Interesting to read your comments re: Shirley MacLaine as I am reading one of her books now "It's all in the Playing". I sought this book out as I remember reading Penys intro in the "Sacred Journey" a few years back about being betrayed by a good friend etc and I always wondered if it was her. I had read other books by Shirley before then and had also noticed her name on the credits of the C/S videos so I often tried to see if she was on them also Anyway since finding this site I've been delving around in my brain trying to put things together and decided to get this book from the library to see if there was anything in it! On page 61 is a conversation she has with Peny and Michaell where Peny becomes quite intense with her. I found the whole thing really interesting and reread Penys intro in Sacred Journey in a whole new light. I have Shirleys book in front of me but I am unsure what or if I am allowed to quote from it etc as I would put more in this post.

All the Best
Demelza

PS Dear Katie, Ted & All
Am reading along still but not posting much - I'm digesting everything but I'm not in a clear thinking space yet- still too many emotions and unanswered questions. When Demian & Jade came out I was thinking the same thing too! - but changed my mind at the last minute. Are you allowed to quote things from the Forum etc as I'm not sure what the laws are A Big Thank-you to everyone as I'm very interested in all the info (I check in about 2-3x a day) and really enjoy reading all the posts - it's been quite an eye-opener!

you wrote:

[[There was the move to Beverly Hills, the Illuminarium on Rodeo Dr. There was a failed friendship with Shirley MacLaine (tearful betrayal as I recall) that Peny wrote about in a forward or preface to one of the books.]]

Yeah, my guess is they had their heads so far up Shirleys ass that nothing but the sharp public slapdown she provided them could dislodge them and put them back in their place.

The passage that Shirley Maclaine wrote about describing our Peny's attempts to discredit another medium is truly hysterical and vintage Peny.

Subsequent editions of her book edited out that passage, due, no doubt, to the hysterics that our" sparkiest spark of love "inflicted on her.

They were probably confident they could build a scientology like base of celebrity power out there.

Peny was probably the reason it didn't pan out. She has to be the biggest star in any room she is in as do many of those people.

CLASH.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

[[I noticed that they have Shirley Maclaine's name in the credits of all the video tapes that I have watched. "Special thanks to Shirley Maclaine." And actually that was my first whisper that "something's not right," back in my true believer days. I kept looking for Shirley in the video that I was watching. When I realized that she was not going to be there, I wondered what they were thanking her for. I started to have this nagging suspicion that the people associated with Lazaris—this pure, loving, sincere entity who dwelled in only the highest realms—were using the name of a celebrity known for her passion for metaphysics to give themselves credibility and validation. ]]

I think your right. They pasted Shirley Maclaines name on the video because it looks like she endorses Lazaris.

Around the time those vidoes were done, they recruited the help of a woman named Anne Marie Benstrom who was involved with Ramtha and was a close advisor to JZ Knight.

I thnk that Benstrom advised them on how to present themselves for a broader market as Knight had so successfuly done. That is speculation, all I know for sure is that she was around for a while.

Benstrom has sinced distanced herself from Knight and has nothing to do with Lazaris, I always wondered what happened.

Shirley Maclaine probably got involved with Jach as a result of her friendship with Colin Higgins, a fine filmaker, now dead who was also a close friend of Penys and "Lazaris"

Colin directed those videos for them and I think that due to the close relationhip he had Maclaine let him put her name on it.

A reliable source told me that Peny was very jealous and spoke about Maclaine quite contemptuosly. Peny, my source told me liked to pretend that MacLaine was a pest. LOL.. as reliable as this source is, its only speculation.

I dont know how much Maclaine has to do with them now, as of a year ago I believe she was still in contact with Jach.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

Here is the gist of the interaction between Shirley, & Mrs & Mrs Peny, in the book "It's all in the Playing"

Shirley had a session with another channel (Kevin Ryerson) and one of the entities
suggested they do an Irish jig together whereby she became quite nauseated fom the
experience. It appeared to be because her frequency then was different to the
emotional frame of reference it was ten years before and the entity hadn't adjusted for
it. They were re-enacting a scene for the miniseries 'Out on a Limb' - hope this
makes sense.

Anyway, Mr & Mrs Peny rang her to see how the screen test went and after re-laying to them about the jig and nausea attack, Mr Peny said that they didn't see why it was necessary for her to be put through that.

Shirley was taken aback and suggested that "it was just a mistake - mine as well as his" yet they were insistent that it shouldn't have happened whereas she tried to assure them that "it was nothing, really. No harm done."

Mrs Peny intensely asked "Aren't you angry and outraged about it?" Which startled Shirley so she explained what happened and why and Mrs Peny said "he had no right to do that" and that "you deserve better than that" and then told her to "face her anger and hostility" sounds familiar!

Shirley went on to say that she didn't "feel any anger" and was told "Then you are holding it at arm's length. That way you don't experience pain. But you'll prevent your growth that way"

BTW she didn't know where Jach was at this time.

Shirley goes on to say that she stopped and thought about what Mr and Mrs Peny were saying and it sounded "like the early days of psychoanalysis and est training. If you don't feel anger and rage, it's because you're suppressing it"

Shirley tried to get mad at the entity but couldn't so she finally said "Listen, I'm really trying to get mad and pissed off, but I can't get it up, so I can only say maybe you guys are mad and pissed off. Maybe you have a problem with the entity, and I can understand that perfectly. After all, I guess everybody wants to believe their spiritual entity is the best"

The conversation politely ends here but Shirley goes on to say "It was my first taste of what would soon develop into the competition of the entities", "And because I was in the eye of the hurricane of the rapidly developing metaphysical movement, I and my endorsement would be a prized trophy." "There was no way to choose,I loved them all"

She does talk a little about Jach and Lazaris through the book so that has been interesting to read and also writes about spiritual counselors (pages 20 & 21) in regards to remuneration.

All the Best
Demelza

I am fairly certain the book is Shirley MacLaine's "Its all in the Playing" published sometime in the summer of 87.

But you have to find an early edition of the book to find the juicy bits about Peny and Michaell and Jach as she [ or the publishers lawyers] edited the scene out of the later editions.

Sometimes libraries have first editions of popular books like that..but rest assured any of the subsequent printings..are clean of unflattering references to Peny.

My guess is that MacLaines assesment of Peny was completely balanced, accurate and probably generous.

Go check it out if you can.

I don't know what the current status of Peny and Shirley's relationship is but my guess [and only my guess] is that it is pretty much a non entity..[g]

I think a big rule of Peny's was that she needed to be the biggest star in the room.. and that created some problems when she went starf*cking around LA.

Interesting you write the forum has been dead for so long.. when I quit in January there were so few people writing it was pathetic...

I think [my guess only] that they will shut the forum down shortly.

I think they realize they will not be able to manage too many public queries and shut it down to regroup and restratagize.

I think the Forum was pretty much a plaything for Peny and the Gang and now that they might feel wounded or vulnerable the last thing they want is exposure.

In short, I think it existed as bloodsport and a source of gossip for Peny and the Gang....again in my opinon

Cheers,

Jeremiah

quote:

---

Do you remember what the issue was? As I recall it was something to do with an alleged channeler that Shirley worked with who said that he felt drained after a channeling session. Jach (or Peny) said that any entity worth their salt would leave the channel feeling invigorated, not drained. It was battle over who had the better entity.
Do I have this right?

---

That is pretty much the gist of it. The real kicker I think was the how she portrayed them as desperate for her endorsement. Which, I have no problems believing that were true.

They used to give her a card at the end of the video's with the thankyous.. distinguishing her name at the end kind of dramatically.

Why? she had nothing to do with producing those vids as far as I know.. anyone know?

My guess is they were eager to appear as though they had her endorsement.

When she slapped them down in that book, I bet Peny was furious .

As I have resigned myself to getting no work done anymore, and have my own office Thanks be to jeeezuss... I can post away.!!!!

Thank god for the constitution eh???

And I may add THANK GOD FOR BERKELEY CA.!!!

LOTS great old hippies=great old used bookstores FILLED with impressive collections of anything you may want....

Got the book. dog-eared. all the juicy bits intact. $0.50
Lots of incriminating stuff/what Jeremiah points out.

FYI
Shirley was getting up to the minute private consultations from L. no waiting list when Peny wants up that ladder of star success (suckccess). and little private tapes sent to her all over the world etc etc.

I would be glad to drop it in the post for you Dogstar... Or you can go to the closest hip town. can berkeley be rivaled??

One bit I sorta recall:...Shirley yelled at Peny cuz P. was saying about her other chanelled entity(who once was physical) that he was being insensitive, and L. would NEVER do something like THAT.!
p. said to shirley you should be sooo angry, you must have a problem with anger....and shirley said you are the one with that problem..hung up on her... end of relationship I think, at least in that book..
But Shirley does mention a thank you to L. in the front pages along with many others, but no Jach, no Peny mentioned...
lunch-time,:smile:
Chow chow,
Audrey