Welcome!

I understand where you are coming from. In the first thread "Please Post" I described my being on the fence…asking questions but not able to say that Lazaris wasn't real. I've loved Lazaris for over a decade myself and it's still much easier for me to question Jach than to question Lazaris.

Katie, you beat me to it :) but you expressed the place I have come to perfectly when you expressed how it's become irrelevant to you and Ted now whether there is a Lazaris, because with his continued endorsement of Peny as a "gem of energy", he has lost credibility.

These past few days, in the midst of all the holiday activities, I have taken the time to sit quietly with my thoughts, and do a lot of writing trying to sort all this out. I have come to realize the keystone, the point where all of this turns for me is not in asking the question "Is Lazaris who they say they are?" but the question is "Is Peny who she and Lazaris say she is?"

I can spin my wheels forever with Lazaris, but Peny? That has a definitive answer and each answer carries its own conclusions and speaks volumes about Lazaris.

Is Peny real? (NOT PERFECT, but possessing the qualities of love, beauty, vulnerability, trust, enlightenment, etc. that Lazaris and faithful forum followers assert)

One possible answer is yes, Peny is real in that regard. She is, indeed, who or what Lazaris says she is.

If I accept that then what I see, hear, read, all my experiences, senses and feelings, my doubts, my discernment, my logic and intelligence, my instincts, my inner voice, everything that says no, to the contrary, is all wrong. I'm wrong. Nothing my own senses or mind or heart tells me about her is right. I must be in negative ego, martyr, child, adolescent, victim, etc. If I don't feel safe and can't post it's because I'm a coward. If I think she's abusive, it's because I'm in child who wants to be coddled. If I'm not grateful for a thrashing, it's because I'm in defiant negative ego who can't recognize real love. I must look to Lazaris and Peny and the part of the Forum that supports Peny to guide me, because I cannot trust myself. If I trust Lazaris about Peny over what I feel, then I cannot trust myself…I cannot trust both because our assessments are diametrically opposed. I cannot discern. Lazaris can. Peny is real; it's me who isn't real - as long as I'm in negative ego (and as long as I see Peny opposite of the way Lazaris sees and describes her I must be in negative ego).

Another answer: Peny is a fake and therefore, so is Lazaris, which then goes without saying, so is Jach. Don't need to go any further than that. Why would I want con artists and their gimmick dancing around in my subconscious and playing with my soul?

And yet another answer is Peny is a fake. She is not who or what Lazaris says she is, and what I see with my own eyes is true. She is abusive and controlling, BUT Lazaris is still real, an entity outside of Jach who communicates through Jach.

If I come to the conclusion that Peny is not as I'm told she is but as I have witnessed her to be, if I trust myself and not defer to either her, the Forum gang or Lazaris, but come to my own conclusions based upon my own observations and experiences, then it becomes clear to me that Lazaris, great entity or not, is an enabler involved in a codependent relationship with an extremely abusive person. Peny has hurt a lot of people and controls even more and she is able to do this because of Lazaris. Without Lazaris choosing to single her out and confer upon her a higher level of enlightenment than she obviously possesses, Peny would not have the power she wields.

And that changes everything for me. It's not even a question of whether Lazaris is real or not anymore to me. It's a matter of how real I want to be with me, whether I am willing to trust myself or whether I want to give that power away to another. And if I choose to trust myself then how do the conclusions I draw about one person, Peny, reflect upon another - Lazaris? And if I still see Lazaris as real, then how accountable do I want to make him for Peny's behavior and the part he has played to enable her? Certainly not any less than what he has taught me over these many years to be accountable for myself.

Dear Soullover, it's still hard for me, but I can say this…I'm not going with the first answer. I, absolutely refuse to give my power away to her, Jach or their gang…I've done that enough for these past years. I have come to see that in the Forum, despite all the lovely metaphysical rhetoric and writings, when push comes to shove, you can be as powerful as you want as long as you defer to the wisdom of Peny and her gang.

I am so glad you are here, Soullover. This place means a lot to me. Even when no one was posting these past few days because of the holidays, I still came back to visit…just reading the words here help to validate me and keep me in touch with reality...and I've been out of touch for too long.

Hope to hear from you again.

Seeker

Thanks for all the information about TradeVest. Magically creating abundance, indeed!

You wrote, [[If there is one thing that crushed me most inside about the Concept:Synergy chat room is the stamping out of all expressed individuality and "non-canned" aliveness.]]

Yeah, spontaneity and individuality are not welcome in the Forum. Too dangerous. We can't have people thinking for themselves, can we? As I mentioned recently, humor is also severely lacking. I've seen jokes and poems attacked for being "politically incorrect". One would think that it would be safe to post outside of the political threads, but it isn't. People have been attacked for the most trivial of reasons.

You wrote, [[At one point, Peny posted in the Compuserve Lazaris chat room her hope that President Clinton would get a fatal STD as a result of his "bad boy" adolescent behavior. I mean, my God -- come on!]]

Interesting. My first scuffle in the Forum was when I responded to a post of Peny's where she was upset that a Democratic politician had said that she hoped that Clarence Thomas' wife would feed him a fatty diet so he would die soon. She said she couldn't imagine a Republican saying something like that and getting away with it. I wrote that I personally knew Republicians who have said things like that and that Democrats were not the only ones who would make such statements.

Of course I received many a post expressing outrage that I would question Peny. After I apologized - my first lesson in dealing with these sycophants - Peny graciously invited me back into the fold. She let her cronies handle this one. I was sincerely concerned that I may have hurt her. Oh, how irresponsible of me to hold Peny to the same standards as everyone else!

I wonder how many of the sycophants who attacked me were aware of her statement about Clinton and blinded themselves to the double standard.

I also noticed the descrepancies with "Lazaris'" nutritional advice. On one of the early Health tapes, they say that, though nutrition is a matter of belief, red meat has the highest threashold, followed by poultry, fish and then vegitarian diet. Then I saw posts in the Forum from the Gang where they were advocating meaty diets.

It is rather amusing that anyone would pay attention to Peny's health advice. That's like taking sensitivity training from David Duke[lol].

Welcome!

You wrote: [[I have been playing with the notion that this is a class A hoax in order to formulate a workable theory of fraud here and it just isn't happening. I haven't been able to satisify myself with any possiblity along those lines, it just doesn't fly. If it did, I could accept it.]]

Well, I won't try to convince you otherwise[g]. I don't have anything to add to what I've already written on the topic. If and when I ever have proof - one way or the other - you'll read it here[g].

I agree with Lorca that the diamond would indeed be tainted. It may retain it's physical beauty, but the subtler aspects would take a hit, IMO. That's why I'm in the process of cleansing all the crystals I received from the Lazaris seminars.

You wrote: [[The woman on the Peny and Lazaris tapes for instance bears, in my mind, little resemblance to the Many Caftaned Monster we see before us now.]]

Peny's essay at the beginning of Lazaris Interviews Book II indicates a person who is quite full of herself. While she is not nasty or insulting in this writing, she tells how difficult it would be for people to understand the depths of her love with Jach and Micheall and her esoteric philosophy. And how "the confusion is long past now, and only rarely does a piece of it drift to shore...". Misunderstood by the ignorant masses who can't conceive of someone being so wise, loving and happy. That's our Peny. The book was published in 1988, and Peny says in the book that she had written these words "several years ago".

On an Evening with Lazaris and Peny tape from the mid-1980s, Peny says that the "Map-Makers" are setting the precedent of "going Home". As if noone has ever "gone home" before Lazaris came along. Peny admits to reading works by Paramahansa Yogananda, so she should know that at least one person has set that precedent before. In fact, many have.

She may or may not have been smart enough to not act up then as she does now, but it seems to me that the hubris has existed for quite some time.

I had heard that story of some of the Gang writing about bad crystals on eBay. I don't know if Peny resold eBay crystals, but I do know that she bid on quite a few of them.

When Forum Storm hit, I was thinking that there had been a massive misunderstanding - that we're all good and sincere people, but for some reason, we're not communicating properly. But events such as this make me realize that C:S is diabolical and corrupt to the core. This is no temporary excursion into "negative ego" - this is long-term, purposeful deceit, IMO.

You asked, [[How could Lazaris stand by and watch them...Contradict what Lazaris says because it doesn't fit in with their right of Reagan politics?]]

I remember one such incident - I wrote about it here - where someone posted in the Forum that Lazaris has something to the extent that it would behoove us to accept the fact that people in other countries don't have the same values as we Americans have and we have no right to try to force our values on them. This, I think, was on the 1999 tape. The sycophants said that what Lazaris meant was that we need to protect ourselves against these countries because they don't believe in freedom and apple-pie, etc. When I heard the tape, I thought it was as clear as a bell what they were saying. Peny wrote in the next day saying that she consulted with Lazaris and the sycophants had it right! I had a real hard time with that, but I swept it under the rug with the rest of the stuff.

I have personal memories of Peny's generosity. She gave me a Lazaris weekend once when I was in finnacial bad shape and could not afford to go.

She once bumped me to the head of Lazaris' private consultation wait list when I had a job offer from a very wealthy -- potentially shifty individual who would have burned my ass had I accepted his offer. No doubt about that from known hindsight.

Thank you Lazaris. You really helped save my hide with what proved to be excellent intuition about Phil Filthy Scumbag. Jesus Christ -- thanks egg unit! ;0)

And then, IMO Peny abuses-the-hell out of those she draws close with her generosity.

And I, we.. pull away -- one hopes: at least eventually.

No exuses, folks. Peny is capable of beautiful generosity -- and IMO great cruelty when her learned inability to control her reactions to (interactive) life's disapointments -- large and small: f*ck everything up for her.

Hey. I'm an Enneagram 8 with a 9 wing -- if not for my desire for closeness and peace in this life -- I would still be feared by every poor "miracle incapable" with the idiotic misfortune to let me down.

We all have our Enneagram personality hurtles -- built RIGHT in... to our inescapable, incarnate insides.

IMO, Peny as a 6 is an expert "giving" social skid-greeser. Perhaps that's why she has gotten to her mid fifties with the objects of her fantastic generosity STILL excusing -- enough -- of what they let her get away with -- for her to IMO have not YET have grown up emotionally.

IMO disapointment is her missle launch button for, "I get to F*CK you now -- HOWEVER I want: because YOU OWE ME!"

It's sad and pathetic. What is she now: 55 years old? The woman is IMO still in socio-emotional preschool, folks.

That is clear enough.

For a chronological adult, emotional preschool sucks Love and Life force constantly away.

Steve

As you know, Ted and I get email from people who for one reason or another do not choose to post publicly. I'm still amazed at the amount of fear and discomfort some people experience around having anything to do with Con:Sin. It seems the closer and longer the association, the greater the reluctance to come forth. From what I'm hearing, there is good reason for this. There are many, many casualties from this War on Souls being raged by those psychopaths.

Back in the early days Con:Sin used to have weekly "staff meetings" where every week some person would be targeted to have their crimes against the organization "processed".

These were actually soul and spirit assaults on some hapless individual who had the audacity to make some mistake or another.
The only happiness about them was in those who lucked out and weren't themselves sitting in the hot seat. They were nothing short of weekly frenzies where Peny got to assuage her lust insatiable lust for blood. Probably these charming little sessions were where her appetite for it was first developed. We can be certain that she had previously dipped her beak, but possibly this was the first time she was able to drink it by the bucketful. Here we see the beginnings of a long career of ravaging self-indulgence.

During that time Peny started a little "women's group". During these sessions Peny introduced the idea of "goddess wigs". Somehow she convinced her gal pals that these grotesque wigs were very cool, and got everyone into a frenzy of wig buying. It seems that one of Penyache's big heros is the ever elegant Tammy Faye Baker, a woman well known for her good taste and sublime fashion sense. It isn't hard to believe that given Peny's own personal sense of style. When you think about it, Tammy Faye is the perfect model for Peny, cult following and all.

The opinion has been offered that this wig scheme of Peny's was a way to de-feminize the women around her, maybe to level the playing field to bring everyone down to the level of unattractiveness Peny felt about herself. Hell, what else could it be about for a person to paint themselves like a billboard, and encourage a dowdy frumpy look in those around her?

What is amazing to me is that some of these women continued to wear those wigs for years after. Was it compulsory? One can only try to fathom why someone would adopt and maintain such a bizarre look.

One of those wig heads is a woman of past prominence who has since disappeared from the scene without so much as a fond farewell.

We have now learned that this woman has an interesting history of her own. She was once a business partner to Werner Erhardt's wife. (Jack Rosenberg, ex-used car salesman, founder of EST). One can only speculate what inspired her to leave EST to enfold herself in Peny's ample but menacing bosom. I wonder if she brought the manuals on mind control and manipulation with her.

This wighead was known to have a favorite phrase at seminars. "Do you have any good stories for me?" It seems that the rotund Goddess of Rage has quite a taste for little bon bons of gossip about seminar attendees, and quite enjoys holding court after a weekend or intensive to be spoon fed these tasty little tidbits. The staff is trained to hunt and gather these little snacks for the voracious one. So, how sickening is it to realize that every exchange between a staffer and a sincere, open, trusting True Believer is going to be dipped in blood and crammed into Peny's drooling jaws?

Of course, one only has to take that thought a step further to realize that beyond providing some momentary relief for Peny's insatiable blood lust, it also provides lots of nice little bits for the Jachzaris show.
Staffers do point people out to Jach, and provide him with any private tidbits they have gathered. So much for how the Orb knows people's names.

Speaking of privacy and trust, it also seems that the Big Bitch listens to the private reading tapes. How's that for trustworthy?
Peny once told me that "us sixes like to know". In retrospect I now realize that she was giving me instructions on how to be her pal. Spill all! Fuck you Peny, instead how about if I spit in your blood drenched face?
Here are a few tidbits for you. barf

Then we come to Jachass. What is he about I've asked a few. Not much response beyond, "Jach is a nasty little fucker who lives vicariously through Peny's vileness".

Does that make sense to anyone? It sure does to me. Here is this creepy little wimpy twerp with his big ugly pit bull on a leash. He's far too much of a coward to attack on his own, so like all cowering little wimps he employs something big and mean to hide behind and do his dirty work for him. Yeah Jach, I have your number, you disempowered foul little piece of dirt. Kiss my Irish ass

More to come.

Katie

This is really laughable -- and very sad actually.

This person clearly wants others to see them as "guru" while admonishing them not to 'guruize': anyone, any book, or any philosophy.

IMO a very lost *negative* guru's victim.

Past LSD (etc.) overdose can add greatly to this sort of discernment damaged social state -- generating our counter culture's many unfortunate, unthinking -- and VERY dangerous to the socially / spiritually naive -- "little hippie hitlers".

Both come from persistent, extreme feelings of being somehow damaged, therby personally inferior to others undamaged, and a -- very sadly understandable -- deep and driving need to compensate socially.

Peny once emailed me back, when I asked for her specific opinion about the use of LSD in the 1960's -- that she, to paraphrase: "Absolutely thought the world of it".

Jesus Christ in July, 1967. Thank you Sandoz Laboratories.

IMO non-laboratory produced hallucinogens are the only POTENTIALLY safe route here -- and are then very greatly dependent upon the physical / social environment in which they are consumed.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

Here is something Peny wrote about herself that I found on a search today. Maybe you are familiar with it. It says a lot about how she wanted others to see her, and how she saw herself.
http://www.lazaris.com/pubpathway.htm

Love,
Jade

Welcome back!

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Here is something Peny wrote about herself that I found on a search today. Maybe you are familiar with it. It says a lot about how she wanted others to see her, and how she saw herself.

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It is interesting to read this again in light of recent events.

What really blows me away about this tome is the introduction to it, presumably written by a CS employee, reporting that many of them carry copies of this peny-opus with them in their notebooks and that it is representative to them of a [paraphrase] beautiful spiritual life.

What is clear here is that the Peny worshiping was around from almost day one.

It is also worth noting that Peny writes about communicating with dead people with great elan. She even places dead in quotes as if to suggest death is only a perception.

Doesn't quite jive with the belief system of a woman who made a suicide pact with her husband does it?

Chilling.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

http://www.lazaris.com/pubpathway.htm

I remember readingthat dreck a long time ago. It didn't feel right then either. Under the carpet with it.

Not too self-important, is she? She writes, "How could she tell them that it really is only all illusion on this planet?". Indeed, who but the super-evolved Peny could understand this? Not the millions of Hindus who have been saying this for millennia. Not the thousands (maybe millions) of Westerners who have studied Eastern thought or came up with this on their own. Nope - only someone as evolved as Peny could grok this.

She wrote, "She had broken all the rules of censorship and restriction 'for your own good'...". Then she set out to censor others - for whose own good was that?

Funny, I had forgotten about Peny writing this in the third person when I wrote about Latrinis speaking of themselves in the third person. Did she think it would appear more humble that way? It didn't.

The sycophant who wrote the intro wrote, "For us it is a cherished touchstone, an inspired and resplendent fractal of a spiritual life profoundly well-lived". That's why she needs to be exposed. Hers was not a life to be emulated. One Peny North on this planet is too much - we don't need any more.

I will answer some of your post now, the rest may have to wait.

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Good questions, let's see if my answers encourage or discourage you.

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Encourage me or discourage me to do/think/say/feel what?

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I would be willing to defend his truthfulness if we could agree on what to defend. Peny? Anything having to do with P could be an opinion, I won't defend opinions, especially those I don't agree with.

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Yet everything Lazaris says is his opinion about something.

You say you don't defend opinions.

Whether or not you agree with anothers opinions, the opinions an individual holds can give you all kinds of information about the person.

What kind of values they have, the criteria they evaluate people and events with. Their beliefs about themselves.

For instance say a person becomes a Republican because his father was a Republican.

For the sake of this example say that you disagree with Republican politics.

Even though you disagree with the political opinions that Republicans hold you form an opinion about this individual based on the knowledge of how they came to their Repulicanism

What does Lazaris opinion about Peny tell you about Lazaris. Regardless of whether or not you agree with his opinions on Peny, what do those opinions tell you about Lazaris?

That he made a mistake? Fine. We all make mistakes.

There are mistakes and then there are mistakes.

Befriending someone thinking they are one type of person and then concluding they are another is one type of mistake.

BUT AFTER 30 YEARS of watching her rant and rave Lazaris still didn't get it.

What does the fact that in a near 30 year relationship Lazaris never was able see her for what she was,no matter what she said or did.

What does that tell you about Lazaris?

Are you telling me that you deliberately blind yourself to that kind of evaluation and information?

As an aside:

Lazaris states that all beliefs are opinions and you might as well pick the ones that work. Seth also says that [before Lazaris said it I might add]

Will try to get to the rest of you points later.

Jeremiah

Peny and her Gang were posting on a political message board for awhile, not too long though, because they didn't succeed at making themselves the bosses of everyone and final authority on all things. Everyone there watches Hannity and Colmes too, and were underwhelmed with the "political acumen" of those bozos.

Peny's tactic though was to declare how wealthy she was, home many big homes she owned, etc. Of course not only weren't people impressed, they were as sickened by her arrogant declarations as Ted and I were reading along. I was still a suckophant myself at the time, but just shocked at her behavior there. (Knock, knock)

The thing is though that the empty hole in Peny was so huge that there was no amount of money, glory, or admiration that could ever fill it. I believe that more she got of what she thought she wanted, the more miserable she became. More, more, more, Peny always needed more.

That's why she could never accept an apology, never forget a slight, and everything was a slight. She endlessly sought reasons to lash out. She was just one completely ungratified miserable bitch from hell.

My belief is that Jach concocted the whole Lazaris scam in an attempt to appease her, but even that was not enough.

Christ, he made here the "most powerful magician in the Universe" "the most wonderful woman in the world" and made up stories about how she had almost singlehandedly saved Atlantis from destruction. What? That bitch? If any of the stories of Atlantis are true (who cares?), Peny probably blew the place up by herself.

She had a limitless capacity for rage and destruction.

Now we know though, that the whole time she was busily destroying herself.

I always assumed, like most of us, that Peny died from a stroke or heart attack. Recently I've heard comments from a few people "in the know" who referred to her having an "illness". That makes me wonder, because you don't usually hear heart conditions or strokes being referred to as illnesses.

It will be most interesting and significant to eventually know how her physical body destroyed itself. Those who did take her health advice have a right to know.

Did she give herself cancer with all her weird hydrogen peroxide therapies, or from injesting colloidal silver by the bucketfull?

I think we have a right to know, and should make it our business to find out once the official cause of death is determined.

It is my understanding that there is no big mystery about that, that Peny was sick for at least 6 months prior to her death, that whatever was wrong, the Gang believed that they were healing her, and that her death actually came as a shock and suprise to them despite her long illness. They didn't believe that they needed the help of doctors.

You have to think that if she had a stroke or heart condition that there might be some legal ramifications for them not getting her help.

Does anyone remember if Peny et.al ever posted opinions about religious fanatics who won't seek medical treatment for themselves or their children? I seem to remember a discussion, but not what their position was on it.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

I think Peny died of an incurable case of misery due to her inability to control everyone and everything around her.

The more she got, the more she wanted, and although she did a pretty good job for awhile, she finally knew she was up against a brick wall, and had to face the reality that no one was interested in declaring her the Grand Dame of Earth, and that for every person she could and did control, there were several million more she could not. That was just too too much for Powerful Peny.

Thanks for writing Sky Voice,

When I went to the Peny & Jach joint birthday party in the late 1980s I was startled and befuddled when I saw Peny make a sarcastic, humiliating remark (in public) to Mary Beth, who was obviously upset by the comment. I was very surprised to hear the reputedly ever so evolved Peny speaking that way, and that Mary Beth, who seemed to be a self confident woman, let anyone talk to her like that. I hope she is in a much better place. I too hope that she or someone else with a perspective from the inside of C:S will come forth.

Interesting what you say, Jade, about Mary Beth being publicly humiliated by the Red Queen. (Isn't she the one who kept saying, Off with their heads!?) I bet that party was a laugh a minute. Your remark reminds me of something I heard Peeny say a long time ago on a tape, I forget which one. She was talking about C:S changing the way they would be selling or shipping tapes. She implied it would be a big improvement, and said something to the effect that now Gerald wouldn't have his mitts on it, so it could work. ON TAPE, she said this. (Gerald was a very early employee of C:S, maybe the first, who died i think in the early 90s. His death was addressed somewhat, as I recall.) I can still remember feeling shocked when I heard that. One of the first little clues that made me feel queasy about Peeny.

I also saw a very nasty of side of Mary Beth on more than one occasion. I wonder if she modeled herself after Peeny, being all regal and archetype-like, (but also sarcastic and hurtful), but having to eat shit in the actual Evolved One's presence?

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IMO MB was hard to deal with and sometimes nasty. I never could understand that. It just didn't seem to go with how I thought people should be like that were around L. I would then try to separate CS from L and live with that explanation. What a load of crap.

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I sure agree with that assessment, IMO.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY1

I've come to the conclusion that the overall tone of the Lazaris advice given during MAGIC TIME question/answer sessions has been anti-family with the emphasis on breaking, rather than healing, family relationships. I think I would be much harder pressed to come up with this conclusion just by listening to the classic Lazaris discussions as taught on the cassette tapes or given outside of "magic time".

I think the world would be a hell of a lot better place if we used the challenges presented by our family relationship as the target of our metaphysics instead of trying to program for something like a fancy new car.

I know that others have said that Peny claimed she was adamantly anti-family. Should we be surprised that Lazaris had somewhat similar views? I really think this is the coward's way out of a difficult relationship. While you state that making mistakes in severing relationships can be a profound avenue of learning, isn't it more elegant to use the challenges of relationship as the "grist in the mill" used to help one grow spiritually?

I think the "cult" aspects of the Lazarians is very difficult to see or grok at first. Admittedly, things haven't degenerated to the point yet of Lazarians starting to have their own physical communities and compounds. I know Lazaris has made fun of a fellow channel and (more popular) author Elizabeth Claire Profit. They actually at one time maintained a weapon stocked compound in Montana. They may still have the weapons, but I can't say for sure. I once attended a seminar given by her at a New York City health expo. The true followers in the audience appeared to be more the type of people you would find at a typical church. They certainly did not seem to be stereotypical cult "moonie" type members or even new agers.

I think most long term Lazaris followers admit to a decline in the quality of the material. The actions of the C:S crew and the decline in Peny from the original early Lazaris years give a hint as to the direction things are going.

I view the real damage of any such organization is evident when the followers start having that glassy eyed appearance whenever they are talking about something using the spin and lingo of the group. At that point, they seem to stop thinking and feeling for themselves. They are on spiritual auto-pilot. They become so vulnerable. Without question, I have noticed such behavior with some, but by no means all, Lazarians.

Cheers, Craig

Wow! Scientology's "little people" -- Scary stuff.

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so it could work but NOT in a few weeks, AND
some damage done by drugs IMO- cannot be purged in any manner....it is brain degenerating stuff....

Just one more shady,..half-baked half-truth so typical of cults.

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Right on Audrey --

I have never witnessed anyone -- and God have I searched -- who has recovered fully (for instance) -- from LSD.

IMO LSD (and other lab-refined drug) damage may very well be irreversable -- ie: the frighteningly disabled discernment / pompus defensive spiritual superiority to cover up feelings of being spiritually "damaged goods", etc.

Peny was a HUGE advocate of LSD btw.

Please folks -- if you're gonna go for it -- stick to what grows out of the ground -- not out of a greed-driven / and or hippie dippy playschool laboratory.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

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You said: Peny was a HUGE advocate of LSD btw.

This is a bigee that I haven't heard before. Can you elaborate?

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Sure.

When the slam'n hate bag and I were on speaking / emailing terms in 1996 -- I decided to scope her out for personal LSD use.

I asked her opinion about LSD use and she replied that she thought it was one of most positive things to come out of the 1960's.

IMO she was one heavily acid-damaged -- and consequently: *very easily dooped* Jachzaris-controled, toxic cult puppet.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com