My name is Malene, and Katie invited me to stop in and open my big gap, or as it happens let me fingers do the talking :o). I was in a cult group which I lived with for 5 years now around 6 years back. The group I was in was somewhat new age inspired, but it called itself a sufi trance dancing group. We did all sorts of meditations, trance dancing and other trance techniques. We also lived together and traveled together a lot. Eventually I was partially kicked out, and partially I decided not to obey an order which I knew would get me kicked out.

Anyways, I have been reading over the posts, and the heart ache that I see in Katie's and Ted's stories, and it strikes a chord in me. I know very well about the pain of being judged in the name of God. It is a traumatic experience. There are some obvious to my eyes similarities between Katie’s and Ted's story and my own story.

I remember quite clearly the first year after I had been kicked out of the group. I went and lived in the forest for 3-4 months, because I was so distraught and couldnt deal with the world anymore. Anyways I figured God was about to strike me dead so I could just as well give up trying to live. During that time there was a lot of hard discernment going on for me. Part of me KNEW without a shadow of a doubt that what had happened to me in the group was wrong. As plain and simple as that. It was wrong. On the other hand I knew with as much certainty that some of the things that I had experienced while in the group was beyond explanation, and I knew that there was just so much good and fantastic in that group. I couldnt reconcile those two things. It was impossible for me to explain to myself and to others how something so good could go so wrong. Today I know that all cults have something good. If for no other reason than that they need something to lure people in. If there is absolutely nothing there then there is no bait. The challenge becomes to hold on to that which was good in such a group. To not allow that to become corrupted or damaged, while not allowing the abuse. Part of my discernment has been, and is, to find the kernels of truth and goodness which was in the group and take that with me, while speaking out to stop the abuse done in the name of God. During my time in the forest I promised myself never to betray that which was good in my group. I strive to keep that promise to myself.

This is part of the reason why I hid in the forest. I did not want to listen to anyone. Not to my old group condemning me towards God, nor to my parents, friends or anyone they might hire to tell me how terrible the group was. I knew about the good there, I was not going to sit around and listen to other people who would never understand that.

It is with those memories that I tell those of you who are just not sure what to think of Lazaris and concept: synergy to check it out yourself. Dont trust Katie’s and Ted's words. Dont trust my words. But during this time of discernment, I would suggest that you do it the less painful way and listen to all the points of view as opposed to none of the points of view. Flipping out and going homeless during such a time the way I did it is just not any fun. At the bottom of this email I will include some links to web sites that give excellent descriptions of what cults and mind control are. Read those descriptions, read how they work within such diverse groups such as the moonies, scientology, some fundamentalistic christian groups, and many other cultic groups.

With this information you will much better be equipped to ask yourself the hard questions, and decide whether or not you think you should stay in touch with concept: synergy. This will be your decision alone. Noone will try to talk you into anything, but, you will know with yourself that you have done the research, checked it out and your conclusion is the one that is right for you.

If you do not listen to the doubt in the pit of your stomach and check this out now, I doubt that it will ever get better for you. There will always be this little nagging doubt and discomfort that just maybe you should have checked into this a little further. I know that is atleast the way it was for me. I did believe that it was due to my own weakness I had those doubts, but I just couldnt do away with them. Now, I wish I had listened to that doubt a little before, but atleast I did listen eventually.

Now, since there is a doubt, since you are reading these pages and these postings then do yourself the favor and check it out. Just should Katie and Ted be the ones who knows something that you need to listen to, and you dont listen, the price you will pay lies in years being in a abusive group, of not standing up to stop the abuse done to others, of maybe at times being the abuser as well, since that is the way such groups function, and of being abused yourself. Ultimately it is your own relationship to God which is what we are talking about here. To me it would be important to ask myself the question if my relationship to God is better from being in touch with the group that I am currently in touch with. Not asking those questions are a pretty big risk to take without doing some kind of risk assesment and finding out for your very own what you think is the correct answer.

Atleast that is the way I look at it. You might disagree with me, and that is way cool too, I enjoy and welcome disagreements at any time :o).

So, after this you might ask, how am I doing now after having been out of the group for 6 years. I am doing well. I have a fantastic job which I enjoy, and make good money at. I have a husband whom I adore. I am rebuilding my life, getting new friendships. I am regaining my spirituality step by step, and more than anything I feel a sense of freedom that I never felt in the group.

It took me until around a year and a half ago before I dared to question whether or not the group I had been in was indeed cultic. My research showed me that it had many of the characteristics associated with cults. It was a relief to see, and at the same time shocking, I had never before considered even asking the question. As much as I want to remain true to that which was good in the group I don’t think any of it is an excuse to tamper with peoples free mind and choice, nor to create the kind of hurt I know was created in me, all in the name of God.

I am grateful for where I am at today, for what I have learned and grown with, and for the freedom which is now mine to live my life according to what I truely believe is right.

Good luck in your search for your answers, please dont hesitate to ask me any questions you might have about this topic. I will do my best to share the resources I used, and the experiences which led me to the realization that is mine today.

Malene

A few web sites to check out:

http://www.freedomofmind.com
http://www.csj.org
http://www.refocus.org
http://www.trancenet.org

Nice to hear your thoughts.

You wrote:
I have been living with this feeling for more than two years now, and it ain’t easy. I too believed strongly in an Absolute Truth, or Truths, which I cannot believe in anymore right now. For me that Absolute Truth was not Lazaris’ version of Reality, but the ISKCON version of it (God is Krsna, Goddess is his girlfriend Radha, and we are all his lost servants). I too spent a lot of money, on ISKCON tapes and books. Although not as much as most of you, I spent the years I should have spent getting some kind of education (between 18 and 24), pursuing illusions as a celibate monk.

There's nothing to say to this except I know how you feel. I can only say that I am beginning to enjoy the sense of freedom that I am beginning to have. Also I won't be so keen to repeat the experience. For the first time in my life I'd say I'm really beginning to think for myself. I went from fix to fix for years. I spent years in AA (which in my view is definitely a cult) followed by years in therapy with a therapist who had agendas. I don't blame her as I think she meant well. She introduced me to Course in miracles, marianny williamson and psychology of vision. When I encountered lazaris I was nicely softened up for the next thing. And this was by far the best. I was already beginning to tire of the repetition of the other stuff but this seemed to really have answers.

Well the point is I've spent years at it and it's taken as long as it's taken to get where I am now. I no longer want to beat myself up with that. I am willing now to know the truth if there is any. I won't look for and cling onto the next thing to fill the void. If there is nothing beyond what I can experience directly then so be it. If there is then I will find it without gurus, teachers, healers, therapists etc etc.

Sometimes I regret the investment of love,time and money when I could have been building a different kind of life. But there's nothing I can do about it. Just not do it again and enjoy life now.

I think the Catholic church is a mega cult qualifier. First there are lists (venal & mortal, I believe) of guilt inducing "sins." Absolution only comes through the confessional priest. There's the highly symbolic communion "feeding" of spirit to the flock by priests. Aside from guilt there is tremendous fear of eternal damnation to "hell." The church is expert in use of guilt and fear to manipulate and control.

There are also dictates about sexual intercourse, procreation and birth control (genital/libido control). Female Catholics are not eligible to become priests (sexism). They are also very controlling about marriage and divorce. Look at the (wealthy) Catholics who have had 20 year marriages, that included children, annulled because divorce in unacceptable.

And then there's the almost-God, Pope. I like to imagine him in dockers, a plaid flannel shirt and some old loafers, smoking a cigar.
Burn all the damn pompous authoritarian robes.

Jade

Re: catholic church

Don't forget that if a catholic wants to marry a non-catholic they have to agree to bring the children up as catholic, the required attendance at mass, purgatory (where unbaptised babies go, I suppose it's an improvment on hell anyway!), mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

And some old geezer in a frock is infallible.

ali

Someone recently asked me if I thought my Catholic upbringing softened me up for the cult kill.

My immediate reaction was NO, of course not!!!

Then I remembered to think.

Now my answer is YES, of course it did. It isn't only because I think the RCC is a cult, I think all religions are cults actually. The degree of destructiveness varies, depending on how much weight you put on the significance of using intermediaries to gain wisdom and enlightenment, but I can't think of any religion that doesn't make some kind of cultish demand.

The RCC though is a very mystical group,just loaded with rituals and symbolisms, all the result of it's incorporation of the old religions and customs as a way to superimpose itself over them IMO.

I now recognize that growing up in a Catholic community, and being educated in Catholic schools provided me with a very fertile foundation for my ready belief in new-age philosophies and mysticisms, not to mention a taste for ritual and specialness.

Don't forget, Catholics, like many other religions teach that it is only through them that we can get into heaven. It is the ONLY True Church!!!

I'm still dying to visit Rome though!

Hey Jade, how dare you dress down my Pope???
Can you imagine how upsetting it will be to finally have my private audience with an old guy in dockers? I just don't think it would be as much fun to kiss the ring under those circumstances, and you know I can't wait to get on my knees and offer my smooch to God.
Can't he at least wear a modified purple cape or a whirley bird cap or something to distinguish him? I need my dose of specialness!!!

Just happened to have a catechism lieing around (not mine, honest!).

Scary stuff.

2. God made me to know him, love him and serve him in this world and be happy with him forever in the next.

It continues with incredible detail about what god etc is all about.

241. How soon are children bound to go to confession?

Children are bound to go to confessions as soon as they have come to the use of reason and are capable of serious sin.

Turns out this happens when you're about seven.

100. Can the Church ever err in what she teaches?

The Church cannot err in what she teaches as to faith or morals, for she is our infallible guide in both.

and, not in the catechism, but my personal all time favourite prayer for children on going to bed: 'If I should die before I wake I pray the lord my soul to take...' - Guaranteed to give you a peaceful, secure nights sleep.