"Lazaris" has said many, many times that they will "love us forever and a day". Well, what can I say - talk is cheap. And words that are repeated too often lose their impact and value. Anyone can speak the words, "I love you" into a microphone. Those who take love and it's responsibility seriously say it only when they mean it.

What other evidence do we have that "Lazaris" loves us? Many people have said that they have felt so much love while listening to a tape or participating in a workshop. Well, it may not sound too romantic, but one can feel one's own love and project it onto another. One can feel the love of many
Unseen Friends and label it "Lazaris". Why would anyone do that? Because at the moment we feel the love, we're told that the love is coming from Lazaris. We're told this over and over while we are in an Alpha state, and are particularly susceptible.

And perhaps we want to believe it. We want to experience a love that is greater and more pure and unconditional than any imperfect human being can offer us. Unfortunately, in our quest we sometimes supplant the real, but imperfect love of our intimates in deference to the phony love promised by "Lazaris". The natural longing for these words "I love you"
allowed the fasted-moving computer virus to date gain access into many a computer. One's Soul can be protected by the firewall of discernment.

There is a Higher Love than human love. It is the Love of God/Goddess. No intermediary is necessary. One doesn't need to "pay retail". As high as the markup is that Concept: Synergy charges on their crystals, the "markup" they charge on this Higher Love is much greater. This "pound of flesh" is not measured in dollars and cents, but in dignity and freedom.

This is a quote about love bombing from Steve Hassan's cult awareness site which I particularly like:

"Mind-control techniques such as love-bombing are designed to bypass a person's intelligence and
especially his critical-thinking skills..When a... person
suddenly receives an overwhelming amount of love and acceptance, it is extremely difficult for him to stand back and assess the reasons for this or question something he desperately doesn't want to have
disappear."

I think that Love Bombing is a technique widely used to initially entice, and then to later control and manipulate. We don't have to be in a cult to be "love bombed", or not a big cult anyway. Love Bombing can be employed by one person to who wants to control another.

We all know the stereotype of the dishonest lover or abusive spouse who keeps their partner chained to them by frequent and often dramatic assertions of love. People get away with everything up to and including murder by convincing their victims that they love them.

So, sure, Jach employs "love bombing" as a technique. It's fundamental. It doesn't even make him clever. It's a tried and true method to get people interested and hooked on you, or what you have to say, and to create a blind dependency.

You are so right in asking for evidence of Lazaris' alleged love. Where is it?

Oh yes, we have all felt a tremendous and mind blowing love during our times with Lazaris, moments when we are completely under the ether.

But, where is the love day to day, minute by minute? Where is the love when a forum member is being trashed or abused, where is Lazaris when all of us are being manipulated, lied to and cheated?

C/S can spend their lives trying to convince people that the horrible, ugly, soul destroying thrashings in the Forum are "love", but only those who have lost their ability to think clearly will be able to invest in that statement for very long.
Sooner or later it has to become apparent that it isn't loving to publicly judge, insult, and hammer a person either into submission, or until they quit or are thrown out. That just isn't love by any rational understanding.

We recognize that incredible feeling that we all know as love during the seminars and while listening to the tapes, or when loving and being loved in our lives, but is there anyone who can state that they have felt that same feeling while observing or participating in these sieges?

I would sure like to find someone who would stand up here and say that those spiritual thrashings made them feel good, happy, secure, wanted, or any of the positive emotions we all attribute to and recognize as a part of love.

Someone recently wrote to say that she found these "fights" to be of value. When challenged to explain that, or demonstrate it, there was no reply. No reply, because there is no value to be had in observing, participating in, or being on the receiving end of such a public thrashing.

Sure, love has it's tougher moments when the need for honesty causes discomfort, but those who love each other take great care of each other during such moments.

Any one of us who has had a difficult confrontation with a loved one knows that it would be unkind and abusive to just continue hammering and hammering, without letting up for one second, relentlessly pointing out the problem in minute detail, demanding agreement, hurling insults, judging one's very state of beingness, refusing to accept apologies or explanations,tearing apart and never once stopping to let things sink in, or take a break to assert and exhibit love, patience, understanding, tolerance. Never for a second, because by this definition of "love" it would be enabling and manipulative to do so. It would be disrespectful of self to give one break, one split second of compassion or understanding for the pain and confusion this "assault of love" was causing.

I would like to hear one story of one person who has ever "loved" another this way and walked away feeling good about it, or having had any success at actually helping the other person. Anyone who "loves" like that needs a psychiatrist or legal intervention.

That is how OJ loved Nicole.

Parents who treat their children this way could be validly labeled child abusers. Anyone, anywhere, under any circumstances who employs such methods of "showing love" are abusers, anywhere but in the Forum it would seem.

Imagine having a disagreement over a political issue with loved one which involved all of the above, and added as a special bonus bit of "love" the help of 5 or 6 or 20 others, who all contributed one more bit to this ramming, relentless, cold-hearted, compassionless, tirade. Imagine! Then imagine the whole neighborhood standing by and saying absolutely nothing, but coming out to watch again and again, everytime a there was a new "disagreement".

Yet, this goes on in the Forum routinely and some people have observed, participated, accepted, and glorified it for years.

This just is not healthy or even rational, yet, because so many of us could not face losing this incredible "love" of Lazaris, we blinded ourselves to that clear and obvious fact and participated, perpetrated, supported, and observed this ourselves.

Of course, by C/S explanation, by saying all this, I am in negative-ego, self-pity, martyr, victim, child, adolescent, and a total menace to all with whom I come in contact. I am not worthy of anything but another thrashing.

No thanks. I'll pass on all the love.

Katie

Thanks for your thought provoking posts on Love Bombing. It's an interesting concept and I never really thought about it in such a way before. It does make sense. In my own healing I've been looking at the dynamics that had a big impact on me, what attracted me, what overcame my initial skeptism and got me hooked. I can even remember the exact moment I decided to suspend my disbelief and did so for the next twelve years! Incredible!

Anyway, reading about this as a general dynamic of mind control rather than just a personal experience adds to my understanding of what's going on for me.

Ted, I had to go back and read this one paragraph twice:
[As for those supposed "mapmakers" who stand by and condone this behavior, I'm certainly glad we're not depending on them to show the way. The map of acquiescence and cowardice is old and useless. As are the maps of hierarchical relationships, judgment, blind obedience, denial, projection, divide-and-conquer and sycophancy. Did I miss any?[g]]

I guess the operating word here is "condone". Those who watch and tell themselves that what's happening is okay. Because I know...and I'm one of them...there are many, many people who watch, but don't post because they don't want to be the next target, not because they condone what's going on. And that's an important distinction to make. It's not right, but it's a distinction nonetheless.

Their love for Lazaris and the fear of not wanting to lose that love should they piss Peny off also keeps their mouths gagged and their hands tied.

Because even though Lazaris defines your spirituality as your relationship with God/Goddess/All That Is, what has happened is that for many of us our spirituality has become our relationship with Lazaris...and Peny is like the gatekeeper to that relationship.

It's one of those crazy situations when you're "outside of the set"...(sorry, had to use that :) )...you can see so clearly that being in that situation is not only unhealthy but goes against everything you've been taught through the Lazaris material. And it's obvious that the dynamics that enforce being in this very un-Adult place is oppressive.

But when you're in it, it's hard to see it that way. It's hard to see anything at all. All you know is that something is wrong...but it can't be because if it is you lose Lazaris and so therefore YOU must be wrong and what you see is right, and if not right, then something beyond your understanding at this present point of your evolution compared to Peny and her closest inner circle or whatever...because afterall, Lazaris has chosen Peny, lifted her above all others, set her as an example of an enlightened mind (as opposed to dimly lit which is what you might be if you can't see all this love and beauty in these thrashings...or perhaps in your negative ego along with the person being thrashed). So who are you to argue? Or question let alone post????

It must have sucked to be in the thrashing chair, and I'm sorry I didn't respond.

But the fact is I refuse to post there now - for different reasons than the unhealthy ones I described.

I'll go into that in another post soon.

Love,
Seeker

you wrote:

"Of course our biggest "gift" of generosity was ole Sparky himself. In fact a continuous state of gratitude for "Lazaris" was the status quo. "They" brought us a Dream and a Half. We weren't just "Going Home" but "Coming Home" first class express Map Makers.

"Dazzled by our Trojan Horse who was wise beyond words, always available and unconditionally loving, we opened the gates to our hearts, our trust, our minds, our precious spirituality. All of this without noticing that in every way that we were open, we were invaded and betrayed"

Reading this I remember a very incisive observation that Ted made in another thread about how the whole Lazaris dynamic is set up so that they have everything to give to us and our only "gift" to them is to be able to grateful for what we get.

There is not even a chance of any kind of reciprocity. How can you have real love without reciprocity of some kind..not 50/50 all the time but at some point in a loving relationship don't you have to at least get the sense you have made a difference in the life of the other?

It never even occurred to me in all that time that Lazaris was getting anything from me except perhaps the amusement of watching me try to appear grateful and not notice the money changing hands..

I am starting to see the dynamic in a relationship with Lazaris: you can only conclude your love is too small to make any kind of a difference in Lazaris' existence.

Does that mean that we can only love Lazaris as a child loves a parent? Full of idealizations and the awareness that we cannot ever be on an equal footing.

I am not saying that you cannot have a loving relationship with a consciousness far greater than our own.. but wouldn't part of that greatness allow them to give us the gift of knowing we made a difference?

Lazaris says something to the effect that the ultimate drive of human beings is not to be loved, for we are already loved, but to become more loving

Jach, Peny and Lazaris give and give and g ive $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

All this "generosity" has the gradual effect of creating a kind of indebtedness that is very hard to see when you are in the middle of its clutches.

Those who were privy to the miles long lashing that one poor woman endured in the forum for daring to speak her mind about Jach's decision to cut back his schedule have a clear example of this.

The posts were flying a mile a minute about how much Jach has "given" over the years and how dare she try to make him feel guilty and how it wasn't about her [HUH?] blah blah blah...

It all had the tone of "You ungrateful child, after all I have done for you and now you have the temerity to FEEL something other than beatific gratitude for my selfless service.

A classic "after all I have done for you" parent/child guilt trip.

It was weird to see people attack this woman for allegedly trying to make Jach feel guilty by laying a huge guilt trip on her.

Maybe we begin to internalize the imbalance in our relationship with Lazaris after a while and begin to feel less worthy and less capable..

Selective generosity has a way of doing that huh?

Jeremiah

quote:

---

It is truly amazing how powerful the response is when we tell someone we love them and make them feel really special. Many many people are so invested in that that they refuse to ask questions or even consider that the person might not be for real.

---

I agree that "love bombing" has a very powerful effect, probably the most significant for many people. For other's there can be a different type of core investment issue.

In my case, trust was most important. And directly tied to the trust was the legitimacy of "Lazaris", and the validity of the information.

Though I felt trust and gratitude, I didn't have loving feelings for L and felt awkward during the crystal ceremony because I could see that other's had those feelings and I didn't. What was wrong with me??? But I never felt that I "knew" L. No heart connection. He's like a shrink, who knows all about you, but you know nothing about them and their life outside of the consultation room. (Once I did get to know a former shrink of mine, what a shock. A childish man, and sexist at that!!)

In fact, I used to play the Longevity tape very low because his voice seemed too close, too intimate during "silver light" breathing. Made my skin crawl.

On that tape or another he refers to your "tummy." I figured rubber duckies were next.

But you have a good point Katie. One time I asked a friend what qualities she was attracted to in a new love interest. Response was, "Well, he loves me." Of course, that one didn't last.

Love,
Jade

Katie said,

quote:

---

All that heavy breathing....I had forgotten!!! YECCCHHHHHHH...it's like having some creepy Chester the Molester breathing in your ear.......Mercy!!!!......Get that ick off of me!!! Is this Jack's damned sex life???????

---

That's all foreplay for the "crystal ceremony", when he fondles his flock and plays with their auras. I can't make enough icons to express my repugnance.

Bleah! That heavy breathing used to bug me even in my FOL days, especially on the Longevity tape -- breathing in the "silver light" -- everywhere except the left arm. They were too cheap to fix it.

Thanks for listening to and reporting on the tape.

Jade

I think this topic has been touched on before, so forgive me if I repeat.

An emailer wrote: I know the love that I feel from and for Lazaris and nothing will change that.

I consider Lazaris's love to be cheap love. I hope people realize how INCREDIBLY easy it is for Lazaris to generate the feeling of love in us. He is pulling so many strings:

* Constant repetition of how much he loves us
* A feeling of being special by given the chance to communicate with someone from such a high level
* A friend who says he will always be there for us, including when we die
* A friend who says we are mapmakers, etc.
* A friend who implies he knows us more than we know ourselves and still says he loves us
* Someone who is giving us the secrets to the universe
* Someone who implies he can show us how to make our lives work in ways we have never dreamed of

If all of the above were true, the love would be genuine. But what happens to the quality of that love once we realize some of the things that are being said may be empty phrases or lies? Suddenly, the love appears to be on par of what we might temporarily feel from a prostitute who is faking love for the $$$.

The relationship and love never gets tested. When our reality fails, we blame ourselves and come up with a myriad of reasons why we failed. We never blame Lazaris. Instead, we shame ourselves and feel we may have let Lazaris down by our failure.

I do not doubt anyone who say they feel an incredible love from Lazaris. I know I have. I now realize, however, that what I felt was from something in me, not from Lazaris.

But what about the energy that is felt as Lazaris? That can equally as effectively be explained by one's own energy.

Cheers, Craig

quote:

---

Constant repetition of how much he loves us

---

I noticed how many times the Orb said that during the explanation of Peny's death. If you listen again, you might notice that it's excessive and almost desperate. This little speech is clearly not characteristic of Lazaris' usual bravado, and you can almost hear the tears being choked back.

Anyway, this is all love bombing that you are describing, and history shows how powerful it is, and how many people fall for it. It is phenomenally easy to evoke that "love feeling" in people, that is one reason that I am so resistant and opposed to any obligatory or contrived assertions of "love".

Even if everything Lazaris promises to be for us were true, there is still no real ability to interact and communicate. Sure, there is the claim of the blendings, but that is all very subjective as well. When your dear friend puts their arm around you and gives you a hug you know it. When Lazaris or our HS does the same we have to challenge our imaginations, and many many fail to ever succeed in creating that experience for themselves. Interestingly, I never had a problem with that, so much for the knee-jerkers who will assume I did.

Friends are there when you need them, and you don't have to buy a tape to converse with them. You can't pick up the phone and chat up Lazaris. That's why so many were fascinated with Peny and are with Jach and the Gang. They think those people have 24/7 access to the Orb, and hope they will get a peek into that intimacy that they don't themselves have.

Well, we have gotten our little peek haven't we? And, it is just a wee little peek. Imagine the full picture if this is what we were able to see with one little lifting of the veil of secrecy and deceit that surrounded that group.

There is more...much much more.