Welcome!

Audrey, thank you for your kind words. It's good to get feedback. I, too, appreciate your posts as each time someone shares their story it's like another piece to the puzzle helping others to get a larger picture of whats' going on. Thanks for sharing your experience with the Forum, especially about getting booted for searching the wrong threads...that were then later deleted, by the way.

Perhaps too many people were reading those threads. A lot was revealed in those threads about Peny, Jach and the gang. I know it was a real eye opener for me.

You know there's lots of talk about Peny's abuse. Jach is usually the more compassionate writer and I had always enjoyed reading his posts, but in the threads that continued even after Katie and Ted left (Katie banned and Ted resigning), Jach showed a side to himself I had not seen before. In one post Jach was yelling...that's what they call writing in all CAPS right?...calling a poster stupid and being quite livid.

Is it any surprise that post was removed?

Anyway, I'm glad you are posting on this board and I look forward to exchanging more ideas with you.

Seeker

Interesting story about Jach, that.

I had started to notice a "darker" side to the Lazaris teachings toward the end which puzzled me greatly, and then Jach's behavior toward us during and after Forum Storm showed a very very different person than the loving, kind, gentle, and generous Jach we had all grown to love and admire.

I wrote on the "time for discernment" thread about the concept that cult members and leaders take on a "cult identity" which is different from their "authentic identity". I spoke about Peny's mood swings in comparison to what a cult observer had noticed about David Koresh's behavior, and of course I noted Jach's "Lazaris identity" as noteworthy to the concept, but I didn't think about how the "non-Lazaris" Jach also exhibits conflicting identities.

One of the first thoughts I had when contemplating the "realness" of Lazaris is that Jach could be using Lazaris to express his own thoughts and ideas which are taboo topics within the Gang. We have been told by someone who claims to have once been close to Jach that he confided in them that his politics were much more "liberal" than those of Peny and the Gang, for example. Lazaris also seems to present a more balanced and liberal political perspective, certainly Lazaris doesn't hold forth on politics with the same unilateral force that the Gang does in the Forum.

Also, during the Millennium celebration at Magic Time, a woman was told one of the most horrendous stories of an alleged past life she had had, in which Lazaris graphically described how her body had been mutilated, and how she had survived to live a long life of torment, dependency, and rejection. The description was just a little too graphic for my taste, and at the time I was thinking that it was almost sadistic in the way it was expressed and described. I think I have written here somewhere about my thoughts on how that story might have impacted that woman, I sure know that it impacted me. It was the stuff nightmares are made of.

Is this kind of behavior on the part of Jach and Lazaris an indication of the dark side of Jach, and that it is becoming more pronounced and harder for him to hide away under his facade of sweet nice guy? Does he have a sadistic side?

I know that my interactions with Jach have shown me a very nasty person with a quick temper and a real desire to punish.

I was on the C/S site one evening a few months back, actually because of Audrey's expulsion, I wanted to read how they worded their invitation to join the forum. I read how the forum was a place of fun, magic, and exploration, and noted that there were no disclaimers, no statement of conditions for joining, it is just a warm invitation for all to join this happy little group of spiritual seekers and explorers. That pissed me off, so I found the "guestbook", which is not a guestbook at all, but a solicitation of personal information for the purpose of marketing the Lazaris materials.

So, I filled it out, with only my name, filling in the required address blanks with blah blah blah blah, and in the tiny space provided for comment I wrote "how do you sleep at night?".

Now, before I hit that submit button, I asked myself "is this just pettiness on your part, a nasty little swipe?" and I got a real strong heads up feeling to go ahead and do it. I've learned to respect my instincts in this way, and for the most part, they have served me well. So, I submitted my comment. The response I got made me glad I did it, and actually provided the incentive for building this site.

A week or so later I got an angry email from Jach telling me that he had seen my nasty little comment, and that he was taking away my privilege to use my credit card to purchase tapes, was removing me from the standing list, so if I wanted tapes I had to prepay and preorder. Oh the pain! (lol).

The thing I realized from his response, and what I wrote back to him was that his mail made me realize how much power I had to send him into a rage of punishment. He had to think pretty hard to figure out how to punish me, there wasn't much he could do, but he found the one tiny little piece of control or power he thought he still had to take something away from me that he thought I still valued.

His continued attempts to punish and threaten me with banishment from my access to Lazaris made me want to speak up, and exercise those very rights that Jach and Peny were trying to take away from me. The only "power" they had over me was their ability to limit my access to Lazaris seminars and materials, and since I didn't care about that anymore, they had no power over me at all. What a great and exhilarating feeling!

Now, is that the compassion of a loving and kind man? No, I don't think so. He was royally pissed at me for committing this horrible crime of asking of C/S in general how they sleep at night. The note wasn't addressed to anyone specific. Big deal that there is some jerk out there with a smart comment to make. How could that be worthy of anything more than a sad shake of the head to someone with his abundance and position?

I still marvel that for all the love these people claim to have, never once has one of them expressed any concern for our well-being, and as I've later learned those who did were thrashed and accused of being codependent enablers of our negative egos. Geez.

Lazaris' information on how to handle our negative ego involves compassion for it, and an acknowledgment that it has its reasons, and that it can be healed with love, and compassion. We are told that by trying to eliminate or destroy it we only make it worse. Why would people in negative ego be handled differently than our own negative egos? I could never figure that out, and I posed the question to Peny at one point in an email to her. No reply to that question of course.

Anyway, Seeker, your remarks about Jach sparked these thoughts, offered for what they are worth. There's a lot to think about in all this.

quote:

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His post was on the ten threads frying the woman for questioning Jach's decision to no longer hold seminars on the west coast and cancel the remaining ones scheduled at the last minute.

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I remember these issues very well from the forum. You certainly have a very keen memory for details. I stand in awe!

I have to vent!!

What initially amazed me was the very cavalier and highhanded way in which Jach so arrogantly handled the canceling of the rest of the year's schedule. There was never one word of apology. There was never a hint that this sudden decision would inconvenience his clientele. There was no acknowledgement of any impact that this lack of commitment on his part to fulfill a stated contract had on his business customers. Yes, this is a business, and it certainly is the *only* business that I know of that could get away with such a highhanded slap in the face to his paying customers. There was not a word of regret or understanding that it would inconvenience those who had made plane reservations and could not get refunds. The arrogance of these people is appalling to me!!

Own your impact, Jach!!

I have watched the dynamics of the forum since it first opened its cyber-doors on CompuServe. Call me a very slow learner, but I tried to reconcile the arrogance and the better-thans that were so obviously running the show with what Lazaris was teaching. "Own your impact!" the gang continued to shout from the rooftops. But never did they ever see the impact that they had on the innocent people they shredded. As has been mentioned, souls lie devastated in their wake.

During the course of these years I felt so deeply that there was something so very wrong and kept hoping that things would evolve, heal, and change. I was in hopes that when they moved to their internet site that things would change. They never did.

The dear woman that spoke what was honestly on her mind about being disappointed that Jach would no longer come to California was something that every follower in California was feeling. She was the only one who had the temerity to voice her regret. Thus she paid a very high price.

I am in hopes that Peny and/or Jach will read this and see what a travesty they have made in treating their customers like dirt under their feet. Peny prides herself on being the president of 5 corporations. We know how she treats her employees. We know how she treats her customers. No other business or corporation anywhere in the world would dare treat people the way Peny does... and survive.

I have the feeling that people now are beginning to awaken and thus to take back their power. Last year was the Year of Dominion, according to L. My wish is that may there have been many who chose to step into their dominion and release themselves from the mesmeric stranglehold that they have been in. We've been there, awakened, and now the path is open for others for awakening and healing right here. Many may visit this site and choose not to post. But their reading here certainly can awaken them to what's really going on.

Thanks, Demian! I really had to vent as you reminded us of what had so recently happened.

Crystal

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Originally posted by Katie:
Too bad if she doesn't agree with "Lazaris" or the flabby ex-insurance man.
[/B]

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Katie,

You've used the term “ex-insurance salesman” in relationship to Jach on two occasions that I noted. Are you sure that you’re using it correctly? I think Jach is STILL an insurance salesman, he’s just refined the business model.

As an example:

An insurance salesman will try to collect premiums from customers on the promise that if something catastrophic or accidental happens to them or their property they will be financially protected by an agency with resources and capabilities far beyond their own. And once a customer buys some kind of insurance, the likelihood of him or her buying additional coverage is of a statistically high probability. Of course, the hope is that no benefits will ever have to be paid, but a legitimate insurance salesman will quickly pay off if a genuine need arises. In the meantime, most insurance companies will keep “informing” their customers of other potential threats or risks in order to expand the scope and value of existing policies.

Jach has just found a way to run the same business without the unpleasant need to pay any benefits at all. His followers keep paying premiums (fees) for an ever-expanding list of potential spiritual risks. They are frequently informed of the areas in which they are lacking adequate spiritual defenses. They are supplied with methods (policies) by which they can insure protection against spiritual ignorance, and the scope of coverage is ever expanding.

The refinements in the business model include:
1. Eliminating all competition by asserting that there is only one means to this spiritual end.
2. Shunning those that question the value of any policy.
3. Leveraging the core business (channeling) by expanding the scope of offerings to include trinkets, art, music, Internet access, hardcopy publications, and audiotapes.
4. Constantly redefining the terms of the policy so that pre-existing coverage is never currently adequate.

When you think about it, this is much more sophisticated than a simple MLM scheme. In fact, the conversations on this board already show the range of “accelerators” used by this business, and it makes a compelling case for the idea that Jach knows exactly what he’s doing.

1. The uninformed or unfamiliar are treated like “normal people” and even shown courtesy and favor.

2. Those that indicate interest are brought gradually into the fold by means of widely established and non-threatening concepts like “you make your own reality”.

3. Those that show they are willing to pursue Pursel are gradually indoctrinated into the “Magick” and other manipulations that prohibit dissent or discussion.

4. The “inner circle” are established to protect the scheme (see refinements 1,2, &3) so that the principals can remain above reproach and not directly responsible for inappropriate behavior.

Granted this last one started to fall apart as soon as the mass communication medium of on-line access and the Internet opened the Concept:Synergy kimono to a broader audience than just confirmed proselytes. In fact, Jach probably regrets ever going “on-line” as it has contracted, rather than expanded, his business. But the greed factor, early on, was probably too much to resist.

There is another parallel to the insurance industry that is of interest. Insurance company marketing attempts to convey that they are interested in the welfare of their customers, and they use that same theme to justify the purchase of a policy, “you will be protecting your family – do it for them.” This kind of corporate altruism is reflected in Jach’s assertion that Lazaris is a “friend” and is communicating out of love for humanity.

Beware altruists who make a lot of money while proclaiming their concern for others. This isn’t about philosophy or spirituality; it’s about money. Lots of money.

Regards,

Well, you have finally "pulled me out" of lurker mode. I started visiting this forum and reading messages several months ago after I heard from a friend that Penny had died. I want to start by saying that I'm no friend of Jach et al. I'll explain why later.

The reason I'm writing is to vouch for Brad Hill. Now, you don't know me and have no reason to believe me, but I was on CompuServe for over 12 years and spent quite a bit of time on the CIS NewAge Forum (NAF). Brad was a SysOp, and I helped out on the Seth section occasionally. In those days we had Richard Bach, a Seth section, a couple of Wiccan sections and many other “sections” within the NAF (38 in all??). The Lazaris section was one of many.

Brad had always been, in my opinion, fair, honest, and above-board. He and the other SysOps made sure that everyone’s views were respected and allowed free rein. We had NO flames back then. They weren’t allowed. The whole idea was that you could express yourself freely on a range of subjects without risk. It was a great site while it existed. Maybe it’s still there in some form.

Anyway, I know of several people that Jach and Penny befriended. One friend of mine was lent money by Penny and flown to Palm Beach. Another friend (also a woman) was involved with Jach and swore that he was sincere. This second woman was the one who came up with the idea for “Some Time with Jach” so that people could get to know him apart from the Lazaris persona. She was never given credit for her ideas; they were just co-opted by Concept Synergy. Anyway…I know for a fact that they treated several NAF people very well.

I was, initially, one of them. Penny approached me on the Forum and introduced herself. She said she had heard of me and she started “paging” me when were were both on-line (an early form of real-time messaging, similar to AOL’s famous instant messaging). She introduced me to Jach and Michaell, and I had a few phone conversations with Jach in which we talked about football, which pizzas to order for dinner, and other mundane matters. Penny said that Jach had few male friends he could just talk with.

Anyway, things were actually going pretty well for a couple on months. Back then I had a little email discussion circle going in which we would write our thoughts about various metaphysical topics and attempt to critically analyze some concepts. Jach joined this email circle. The first few times that Jach responded he provided some insightful ideas about Karma and political manipulation in India, as well as expounding on other ideas. None of this had any “Lazaris content”. Everything was great; until I made what I later recognized to be a critical mistake. The only thing I knew about Lazaris’ teachings was a one-page article I had read in a new age journal about “The Bridge of Belief”. I asked Jach why he had invoked the name “Lemuria” as a real place when the concept had a fairly recent history, being named by a fellow in the mid 1800s as his idea of a former mythical society. Well, Jach went nuts and sent me a blistering response questioning my motives, my mindset, and saying, “I was on the wrong path”.

Obviously, my feelings were hurt, as I had asked the question in all honesty and without any preconceived notions. But I saw, from his response, that he was getting deeply defensive about my questioning his metaphysical assertions. So, I broke off contact and watched from a distance as I tried to sort out what was going on. Keep in mind, NAF gave people the benefit of the doubt and we always assumed good motives. It had worked well until Jach and Penny came along.

Brad wrote that Jach and Penny left “for business reasons”. From Brad’s perspective, I could see that as his viewpoint. After all, he managed a lot of sections, thousands of messages per day, and a pretty good little on-line business (along with Neil, the forum owner). But I saw it a little differently. While the Richard Bach section displayed creativity and some incredibly well written responses from Bach (the man is a very gifted writer, and he is better one-on-one than you would ever imagine from his popular books), the Lazaris section immediately filled with sycophants. When some of us tried to join in discussions there we were rebuffed by a swarming of “the true believers”. Flames became commonplace in the Lazaris section – something no one had seen before (there were occasional flames by “newbies”, but they never lasted). I know dozens of people who were put off by the tone, defensiveness, and cult-like behavior within the J&L section (it was called the Jach and Lazaris section of the NAF).

After four or five of these rows, people started to question whether Lazaris belonged on CompuServe. It was clear to us that they were a contentious force opposed to any other ideas. While THEY probably saw leaving as a smart business move (it was – why give it away if you can charge for it?), we common CIS subscribers saw it as a control and manipulation issue. In light of my own dealings with Jach, I knew that we were witnessing cult behavior. I became less and less involved in NAF over time, and the J&L section had a lot to do with my decision to drop out after more than a decade.

Anyway, Brad…it’s been what…7 years? I hope you are well and your businesses are prospering. I often think that it’s too bad that the Internet doesn’t have the civility of the NAF. I am not fond of flames, and there is still room for courtesy in on-line discourse.

Regards,