Today I read an article on healing which talks about the power of metaphor, how our personal metaphors actually exist for us on a cellular level and are therefore key factors in healing. By understanding our personal metaphors, we understand ourselves. Our metaphors are unique to each of us, and hold the key to deep awareness, and provide powerful tools for healing.

Also, we tend to access and work with specific archetypes in learning our personal "language" of healing, while leaving others alone. Our uniquely chosen archetypes are also profoundly powerful keys to self-awareness and healing.

This is sophisticated information to understand and put to use consciously. Being conscious of our personal metaphors and
chosen archetypes gives us a tremendous amount of insight and power from which to learn, grow, and most importantly, heal.

So, what happens when someone else provides us with their own metaphors, and introduces us from their perspective to their chosen archetypes?

Possibly the generic metaphors might be somewhat helpful, who knows? Maybe it's like needing to get somewhere 10 miles away, and someone gives you a skateboard as a means of conveyance. Well, it's a means of conveyance alright, but is it the most elegant or appropriate means? If we didn't know about cars, we'd possibly be happy to have this assistance. If we did know about cars, we'd laugh in the face of our benefactor.

This analogy is for me indicative of the potential for harm we expose ourselves to by allowing Jach to provide us with generic metaphors, constructed from his own experience rather than responsibly informing us and encouraging us to find and use our own.

I hope you'll think about that, and also ask yourselves why some powerful entity would come around and offer such non-specific healing and growth techniques that even a responsible hypnotherapist wouldn't dream of offering.

After thinking about that, maybe you might want to then think about the archetypes that we are introduced to via Jach/Lazaris. If metaphors are powerful, think about our personal relationships to the archetypes and how potentially powerful or devastating it could be to either understand or not those we personally identify with from our own perspective.

If you think that at the very least Jach/Lazaris can do no harm, think about that. I've had more than a few people say that to me, so I thought I'd address it here.

For those who think Jach might be faking it, but so what?....this is one answer to that.

I know you're hear reading in droves, so I hope you will also think about what I'm saying. Everyday brings me more understanding and concern about the game Jach is playing with our souls.

I am returning to the tried and true technique of real meditation (NOT the guided visualizations Jach calls meditations) as a way to access my own metaphors and preferred archytypes. There is a lot of peace and empowerment to be found in doing things for myself, rather than expecting someone else to do them for me, as all do who rely on the Lazaris "meditations" and techniques.

Jach, I suspect you are aware of what is being written here, so I ask you once again, HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?

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What is also involved here is a "Lazaris" created glossary of terms defining what is largely regarded the subjective experience of emotion and perception. Love,Fear, Anger, Gratitude etc.

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And,

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It makes sense when you think about it because the only way to really get a lasting, controlling grip on people is to define their subjective experiences for them and then make them feel they are inadequate in their expression of those experiences.

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How ironic for the Orb to be telling individuals that they are map maker magicians, while cultivating and playing upon a sense of inadequacy.

Thanks for posting this.

It is very enlightening to read that so many people have had such negative and similar reactions to their exposure to Lazaris.

One of the things that continues to make an impression on me is the sense of futility and hopelessness the material seems to have engendered in so many people.

I really hope that more and more people take a look at this "outside of the box" and begin to consider there might be something amiss in the material rather than something amiss in them.

Of course, to think outside of that box you have to break the first commandment: Thou shalt not find fault in the teaching only in self.

If you have a friend that always reassures you that they have your best interests at heart and always talks about how powerful and beautiful you are and yet always leaves you feeling less of those things..you might begin to wonder what's going on

And yet here is Lazaris..talking for years about how powerful we are and how much they love us ...yada yada.. all the while managing to remind us what might go wrong..self sabotage..negative ego. negative ambition..negative ego.. child adolescent.young adult..nemesis.. dreamstealer...

Oh yeah.. and but there are strengths..except if you pollute those strengths with negative ego then they might turn into liabilities rather than assets..

And then there is the martyr/victim..dark law..dark shield..

Lazaris often made a big deal about how they had plenty to talk about once all the blockages were cleared away..

ummmmmm...when exactly might that happen??????????

And what exactly does the good little Lazaris doo-bee do with all that spare time that used to be devoted to clearing blockages?

Buy overpriced crystals of course. ....and cast off what little common sense we have remaining in an effort not to notice the nasty, hostile treatment the CS staff inflicts on its targets.

So what a lesson here huh? ...despite the stated intention of any "friend" it is always best to look at the dynamic and see what the function is behind the words.

If you always come away feeling deflated then maybe it is you, yes, or a combination of you and them..or maybe that person is doing a number on you..

What "friend" finds a million ways to remind you of what might go wrong all the while encouraging you to soar?....

Jeremiah

Many large corporations have a risk analysis department. We all make descisions based on probable benefit versus probable loss. We know that there is a risk of crashing in an airplane, but for most of us the almost-certain benefit of getting across the country in less than 8 hours far outweighs the very slight possibility of crashing.

What are the risks and benefits of accepting or rejecting Lazaris? The benefits may include having access to powerful and wonderful information and having a wise and loving friend for all eternity. Or they may be as mundane as having good information, available elsewhere, in an easy and compact format.

What are the risks of embracing Lazaris, if they're not who they claim to be? There is a great danger in turning one's power over to anyone. There is an even greater danger in allowing someone else into one's sub-conscious - directly, with no filters. Christians have been warning about this for hundreds of years. Maybe they know something. There is danger in lending more credibility to a source than is rightfully due.

How likely is it that Lazaris is who they claim to be? From my perspective, very unlikely. And if they are a seperate being from Jach, but are not from the "Higher Realms", then they may be even more dangerous than if Jach is faking outright.

Most of us - I hope all of us - have wise and loving friends in our lives on the physical plane. We all have a wise and loving friend in God for all eternity.

So how much do we gain, even if Lazaris is for real? Not a whole lot in my opinion. We don't need their friendship, nor do we need their knowledge.

So the options seems to be:
Embrace Lazaris at high risk and low benefit, or embrace ourselves at low risk and high benefit. Easy choice even for this indecisive Libra

We've had two people mention their unpleasant experiences within therapy groups which apply the Lazaris materials as valid psychological information. I recently heard from a third via e-mail.

This person, who never embraced or studied the L materials, has a very disturbing story to tell. They feel they have been through their own "Forum Storm". From what they told me, they have been through a lot worse.

This person was in the group for years, I think that's an important point.

People in this group were not "allowed" to leave without "processing" their reasons first. Very few people ever left the group because the "processing" was simply too frightening a prospect.

Regardless of the personal issue, the solution was always the same. My correspondent did not mention the "solution", but I think it would be a fair bet that every individual in that group was diagnosed as being "in negative-ego".

The term "map-maker" was thrown around. The group was declared to be a "safe place".

The values and philosophies of the therapists were imposed upon the clients.

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I got the distinct feeling that people were being steered by shame, guilt and group-think toward a specific solution

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Although personal strength and power were the stated goals of the group, when after many years this person announced their intention to leave, they were grilled, declared to be "unsafe" and thrown out.

Kind of like "you can't quit, because I'm firing you." I would define that as shaming tactics, plain and simple.

I wonder how soon after that anyone else left the group?

The writer says:

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I am beginning to believe that a lot of people are paying for a lot of manipultation and mind control under the guise of "therapy".

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They go on to mention that a book entitled "Crazy Therapies" by Margaret Thaler Singer and Janja Lalich which has a paragraph about Lazaris and the expense of seminars and private sessions.

Too bad they didn't delve a little deeper and discover some of the "crazy therapies"
being practiced in the name of Lazaris. Forget the monetary costs. What about the costs to the human spirit?

I know of one therapist who is a frequent poster in the Forum, I have a few names for her, but let's call her "Bitter Rose" since some people here don't like profanity.

This charming therapist once stated in the Forum that Ted and I do not deserve to be loved, and that we should be kicked so hard in our asses that we are sent to a place so dark and miserable that no one will ever hear our cries for help.

I suppose that is the way this "loving magician" and licensed therapist thinks of hell, and that anyone who leaves the Lazaris fold should be condemned there. What is worse is that her vile post was cheered in the Forum. Not one person stood up to question it's hatefullness.

These groups sound like hell to me, much much worse than any experience I have had with the Lazaris materials.

The point the writer is making is that even those who have no belief or interest in the teachings of some extra-terrestrial orb are being impacted by these teachings.

The Lazaris materials are sending people out in the world to interact with others, and horror of horrors, provide therapy for others, with their heads loaded with these very damaging ideas which all boil down to nothing better than self-loathing and hatred and fear of others who might be "in negative-ego".

Hell, the Lazaris materials provide us with a seemingly endless parade of "selves" to loath. Each and every one of these "selves" is declared the enemy, the mortal enemy. The same with everyone in our proximity. Everyone is in negative-ego, let's face it. Except Peny of course.

When I hear anyone talk about how fundamentally wonderful and sound the L teaches are, I have to think about how much different life looks without them.

Like most of us, there was a time when I felt the materials were impeccable, brilliant, and irrefutable.

I am now more than willing to take each one of these beliefs apart and scrutinize not only the thinking behind it, but also the impact it has on a large group of people, both the followers, and those with whom they interact.

I can see the impact right here in our little group. The lines that divide us go far and beyond a belief in whether Lazaris is real or not. They go into the areas of human interaction and interpersonal relationships.

When Ted and I were firm and true believers, we actually had many many bitter and tearful loud arguments about how one or the other of us was "in negative ego" or a "bully", "martyr", "child" "adolescent" whatever.

For twelve years of my marriage to a truly and indisputably loving, honorable, loyal, and soulful man, I could not really ever allow myself to give him full credit for any of that, or let myself revel in it.

We were constantly picking, picking, picking, at ourselves and each other. Every little tiny comment or perceived misstep became the subject of analysis and negative judgement. We had countless encounters like this, always ending with tears of pain and confusion.

Because our daughter is not a participant here, I will spare the details of how the L materials played out in our relationship with her, but suffice it to say that we dumped major shame on her, and I'm not surprised that the burden eventually caused our relationship with her to crack. Lazaris' partner on earth declared that we should just dump her. That seems to be the universal solution when someone starts objecting to being shamed by this convoluted philosophy.

I'm willing to discuss my personal experiences with the L materials here in a public forum, with full understanding of how they will be interpreted by L followers.

All I can say is that Ted and I are not fighting anymore, we are at peace with each other, and very much able to see each other for who we really are and celebrate the love we have for each other WITHOUT QUALIFICATION.

If there is a miracle here, it is that our marriage survived twelve years of Lazaris materials. I wonder how many others have not?

Ted and I are fine, but I will state here that I will never stop feeling remorse for the terrible pain I put him through during those years. It was criminal abuse in the name of "spirituality" as defined by Lazaris.

These accounts of the therapy groups, and my testimony are not the only stories we have of the damage the L materials do to relationships. We have the story of Marilyn and her daughter, and I have received many emails over the past few months from people who are/were involved in difficult relationships with friends of Lazaris.

We've had a few accounts told here as well.

We keep hearing about the wisdom and benefits of the L materials. This post has nothing to do with a criticism of Jach, Peny, or Con:Sin. It is directly about the negative impact on lives and relationships from the materials themselves.

I contend that although L provides some fairly accurate definitions of states of human consciousness, that he perverts their significance and cause, and that he provides solutions and rememedies which are far worse than the "disease".

No matter which rotten state of consciousness we "fix" there is yet another coming along. As we await the arrival of the never ending parade of murderous visitors, we continually revisit the old ones. None of these ugly bastards ever go away. They just keep finding new and elaborate ways of tripping us up. We must remain eternally vigilant, and of course endlessly grateful to Lazaris, not to mention completely dependent upon Lazaris to help us keep them at some kind of bay.

We are dependent, because we are "map makers"
and among the very fortunate few who have Lazaris to steer us through those scary and potentially deadly narrows. Some day we are promised, we will be free, but not today, not until maybe after the next seminar, tape, or technique.

I'm sorry, this is one big huge sick dangerous and damaging body of work being put forth by this Loving Being.

L supporters come here offering condolences for the "pain and anguish" of those of us who have opened our eyes to this, and they continue to argue that we should not throw out the "baby". Where is this mythical baby?

I say, run very quickly to that tub that you think is filled with scented bubble bath and a cute darling little baby, and throw it out really quickly. Get that toxic dump as far away from you as you can, as quickly as you can. It reeks. It's a highly polluted infectious cesspool. Anything in there is contaminated, even if it once had value.

I'm agreeing with TedC now, the dumpster analogy is old. I'm amping it up to a toxic waste dump.

Please stop diving in to that and encouraging others to take a dip.

Someone might have dropped a diamond ring into that swill, so what? You are neglecting to mention that in order to find it, one would have to steep themselves in infectious material, and dig through layers of broken glass and sharp rusty objects with ragged edges.

I'll stick to swimming in clean water where I can see what is on the bottom, and finding my diamonds the old fashioned way, in jewelry stores.

Katie

I am mortified by the darkness in this story.. It boggles the mind how power hungry and evil peepull can be.

You know that BABY, we are NOT supposed to THROW out.. ya know what:
THAT BABY is a wicked little thing that is soon to sprout horns, it has a 666 tatooed on it's cherubic little bubble butt.
That's not the kinda baby I wanna nurture..
hell right on that buying your jewelry in a jewelry store. and even with that you have to be very wary....

I heard about a psycotherapist in Marin who uses LSD to put his patients into a trance state to work through issues....!! much like Extasy(MDMA)was used until it became so popular with the Rave genre.

People say ONLY IN MARIN...but that is probably SADLY not so true..

Last night I had a very indepth discussion with a good friend of mine who has been intimately close to me and Ted throughout this whole "deconstructing Lazaris" time.

She was our one friend who maintained an open mind during our true believer years, yet who never got personally involved.

Anyway, she was asking me what actual damage is caused by the L materials.

One of the answers I came up with is in regards to how followers look to Lazaris and Con:Sin for support and answers during times of intense life crisis.

When I think of some of the profound, even life threatening problems that people bring to the Crystal Cave in the Forum, or to Jachzaris in private readings, not to mention all the private work that people do with the materials, it really makes sick and even more angry.

Here we have people who are facing illness, financial problems, divorces, and major life decisions, all making them through the filter of this garbage nonsense about how they are receiving healings, "energy", wisdom and support from this trumped up gang of egotistical soul raiders.

I remember one time posting in the Crystal Cave to someone that I had some "impressions" about their particular situation, and gave advise based on that. I later felt really badly about having done that, and posted an apology and retraction. It was one time that I fully expected to be told off, and would have accepted it as a valid objection if I had been. But, no, not a peep. How could anyone call me on my bullshit when they are all practitioners themselves?

As I look back to my own experience with the L materials I can see that during those years I made the worst judgement calls, and made the biggest mistakes of my life. Some of them are too devastating to even mention here, but trust me, I did some things that in hindsight now look to me like borderline insanity. I did things that hurt myself and those closest to me on very deep levels.

When Ted and I were facing our first crisis in our relationship with our daughter, we turned to the L materials and the Forum for help and guidance. I've already posted about this here, so all I can say is that the results were disastrous.

I also approached my business life and decisions through the filter of all the "reality creation" techniques, and upon reflection I see those years as being the most aimless, unfocused, and poorly judged years of my business life also.

I have always been a very resourceful and confident person, and for that reason, have not had a lot of major troubles in my life. I was always a problem solver, and very good at avoiding making stupid mistakes or having lapses of judgement. I learned at an early age to take care of myself.

Now I think about some of the ridiculous things I did during my L years, and I could just scream! Here I was, instead of using my tried and true evaluative skills, and relying on my very good instincts, playing around like a goofball in the noxious vapors of that Orb fake, totally trying to recreate myself and the way I perceived my life and self.

I could go into details about the process, where when faced with a dilemma, or project I would start frantically working with some technique, or giving my negative-ego over for healing, creating some massive scene in my mind with my martyr, or whatever, but those of us who have done this know what I'm talking about quite well, and those who haven't don't have a clue.

I confine my commentary to those who are familiar with what I'm saying, and have no desire to defend or debate it with anyone else.

I know that I am not alone in having given over a lot of my strength, confidence, power, and common sense to Jach PurSell and his Magical Orb Show. And I strongly suspect that I'm also not alone in now seeing that all I did was hurt myself and people I love and care about in the process.

And, having said all that, I know for sure that I never gave as much power to that seven ring circus on the causal plane as a lot of others have and continue to do. I strongly believe that I am one of the lucky ones.

Unlike many if not most of the posters in the Forum, my life never completely stopped working, and I did and have continued to flourish, IN SPITE of the many pitfalls I set for myself by investing in all that childish sci-fi crap.

My heart goes out to all who bring their life issues to Jachzaris for help or healing.
He and his Gang function not only with no conscience or concern for the followers but with an intense degree of contempt that has been demonstrated time and again.

Yes, the materials themselves are bad news for anyone who desires to face life with a clear head, a conscience, and even a modicum of responsibility.

But then, they sign off with "Love and Peace" so I must be one nasty fucked up negative ego ungrateful paranoid jealous bitch, huh?

For the "Love and Peace" groupies, I guess there is no other explanation.

Lava and peas,

Katie

Thanks for your on-depth post about the dangers of Lazaris' fairy tales. They actually recommend changing one's life focus. They do that with the Lemuria crap and they do it with their cute little notion that the purpose of life is to have fun and create success. Oh yeah, and "coming home". But they specific have said many times that fun and success were the purposes of life.

Coming home via Lazaris? They're be there when we die? Who the hell wants to see them, when we can see God? Who the hell is LazyAss to tell us what the purpose of out life is? And they tell us why we re-incarnated - to prevent another Altantis-like destruction.

At the very least there is damage caused by the distraction. Don't go directly to Go - go through us. Let us tell you where you've been, where you're going and how to get there. Harmless fun, indeed.

There is much damage done by encouraging people to see humanity as two distinct "sets" - the "Consensus Reality" and the "Map Makers". This not only creates a psychological chasm, it also nullifies wisdom which is available from the "Consensus". It creates an "us-versus-them" paradigm, which is so prevalent within cults.

Many friends were drawn to listen to my initial forays into the Lazaris Material -- due to the respect they had for my discernment and success.

That all fell into great disrepair years later as The Lazaris Material took a rather obvious crisis toll on my life.

It's like a slow ticking bomb planted deep in your psyche Katie! The longer you are with Jachzaris -- the worse things get.

Look at Peny and Michaell.

Jesus Christ!

I wonder if what yo are writing about ought to be another thread. I think people like me who are reading along and really don't give a dump about Chris will skip this thread and miss the post you just wrote. I only ended up here because Sky Voice referenced your vulnerability in this thread so I was curious.

I think you might want to cull this out and name it something which references how difficult it is to fly on one's own. It is just a suggestion. I will post here anyway.

You wrote: [[[[My frustration about my L experience is that I became convinced during my follower years that those experiences were the result of my "adult" healing my "child" through the use of the L techniques. I even gave that spontaneous and profoundly personal relationship away to the Orb. AND in doing so, I realize now, I disconnected from it, defaulting instead to further use of the L material, and superimposing the Orb over it. I came to believe that all that love and support I had felt as a child was from the Entity, or my adult self. I dropped the thought that it was a direct connection right out of my conscious mind for twelve fucking years.]]]]

This is one of the reasons I can see how Lazaris is a hindrance to spirituality rather than a help. It has not been easy at times for me over these last months when I realize that maybe the way I came to view the world for the last x amount of years is false. It terrifies me sometimes to realize that maybe I am without any frame of reference. That what I have been doing for all this time is now not true. I managed well enough, but what about the future? What will get me through?

BUT, strangely enough, I always know I am okay. LOL. I even had Lazaris pop into my head one day and tell me I was just fine and would be fine in the future. Well, I don't know what that is worth now, if anything. One conclusion I am coming to, I think, is that whether or not Lazaris is a sham, I will go home, I will be magical, I will be loving, and I will be fulfilled and I will not have to wear the mantel of being a "mapmaker" in order to achieve any of that.
I know some pretty spiritual people who never heard of Lazaris before. He has said on several occasions that we as mapmakers "know more about spirituality than anyone else on the planet." That always weirded me out. I never thought it was an outright better-than, even though it made me uncomfortable. Maybe it is a better-than. On the other hand, initiates into any spiritual calling do end up knowing more than those who aren't called. So, it is an enigma.

That reminds me, I never once told anyone outside of two family members and one friend about Lazaris. And, what is more, I generally could not tolerate to be around most of the people I met at workshops because they made my bullshit meter ring my head off. So, at least I don't have much saving face to do. LOL! But, the questions are interesting as to why I would not ever have wanted to tell anyone. One thing is that I do believe my spirituality is sacred and not just casual conversation. But I also knew it was just too freaky for most people and I was not interested in being considered a wackjob. Even if I apparently am a wackjob afterall. LOL.

But that is a diversion. What struck me about your post was that before going to Lazaris events, I was very close to God and had absolutely no problem just chatting away with God. I also had an established relationship with someone, who, I don't know, but I decided after "meeting" Lazaris that it is my Higher Self. Whoever that being is, its presence was around me all the time and was very palpable. Now, since my questions have taken hold, I have noticed that my HS has lit out. I don't feel deserted and all alone, but I am not able to get in touch with her the same way anymore. It is very intriguing.

[[[[I don't know if it's possible to put into words the devastation I feel about having done that, or how much I grieve for the lost years of allowing my own experience.]]

This is poignant. I was wondering about this, too, for myself. But, I so often would have these great experiences outside of the Lazaris material and would just assume it was God/Goddess and never feel any need to "okay it" with Lazaris. Maybe I have wasted a lot of time, though. Maybe it could have been a lot deeper.

[[[I didn't need the Orb to speak to me of "God Goddess, All that Is". I surely didn't need them to tell me how complicated it is to get that "far" up the ladder of consciousness, or that I needed help to approach The Divine. But,somehow, by changing my view and understanding of my childhood experiences, I cut myself off from the truth and significance of them.]]]

This is very interesting, too. Recently, I have been reviewing my past as many of the players from it have returned to my life. It is amazing how differently I see the way my life really was than I saw it just months ago when Lazaris was still not in question.

People have been saying some incredible things to me about who they always saw me to be, but who I didn't see myself to be. I thought I had become that person because I have been working these techniques all this time. But, I am constantly reminded now of all the ways I had it together. I was not together in many, many ways, but spiritually, I was very tuned in.

The question for me is how long would it have taken me to get the rest of my act together without the Lazaris material. I am not willing to say right now that I would have been able to figure it out on my own by now.

But, I might have. That is the crazy making part, but it is also the part which inspires me to just go on and live my life.
I am here. By whatever means I got here, I am here. I can love, I am going home in a way I know is true, I am fulfilled, and I am happy. If Lazaris helped, thanks. If Lazaris is a fraud and I have some billuous wreckage to clean out, then I will do that. And, I will demand that the people accountable for any fraud be held responsible for it.

[[[[I think I was lucky in a way to have had my communication before I was steeped too far into any dogma. The Catholic church, for all it's power never succeeded in keeping a hold on me. I always had my "little secret", that had nothing to do with Jesus or all his Saints, Popes, Priests and Nuns.]]]]

Exactly. And it was not a dirty little secret, but a sacred one. I get it. I know just what you mean. That is what people are looking for, and the poignancy is that for many Lazaris fills it, while for others we wonder if he sullied it.

But I don't know yet whether or not he did. It might be a pity he created a reality, if he is real, where so many are hurt and in pain. On the other hand, I had been asking for help from Goddess before Peny died to guide me to the knowledge I needed in order to be the "nicer, more compassionate" person I knew I really was and Boom! I get a call from a friend who lets me in on the backstage goings on of C:S and proved it to me when I balked. That prompted me to ask the questions leading me to regain my own perspective and committment to being my own authority, which lets me feel the compassion I knew I was capable of feeling. So, I am not angry that I am doubting. I am taking it slowly, though, because I am still not sure that because Peny was a tragedy of lies and deceit, Lazaris necessarily is.

You say there are many out there like me, many who are questioning. I am sure you are right. I hope that they feel courageous enough to just let themselves take the time they need. I am okay with questions. the answers will come. You, Katie, know in your heart Lazaris is a fake. I don't know that, but I am not living my life anymore in a manner that is dependent on the Lazaris information.

So, I can live in the open question, for now. I hope others who are not sure will let themselves ask the deeper questions, even if they come to far different conclusions than you and Ted. If Lazaris is real, isn't that what he would encourage?

I have to go, but thanks for sharing your story. It is similar to my own experience and makes me think some more.

Well, anyway, I find your site of great interest so thanks.
Ali

I've been picking through the material, making note of which ideas had the worst impact on me and I'd be interested in anyone else's thoughts on this subject, before the Fool takes a nap.

I have the feeling I'm forgetting several nasty bits of pseudo-metaphysics that are still stinkin' up my house--I'm sure others had different flashpoints within the "core concepts" of the Lazaris material and your particular hot buttons would be helpful in reminding me of what I might be overlooking.

Here are, imo, the three ugliest ideas I've found in the Lazaris material:

Negative Ego: the enemy within that always lies and tells you "you're right when you're wrong, wrong when you're right". It's incredibly dumb (but smarter than you) and has only one goal, to destroy you. This enemy within is not to be healed, but "busted" (the cops and robbers lingo says it all.)

The message: there is a malignancy at work within your psyche--be warned.

Higher Self: an evolved, loving intermediary required to help you link to the higher/better worlds and more loving parts of yourself. Rather than (as Seth, suggests, for example) going "inward", the concept implies an "outward" focus.

The message: not only is access to the divine difficult but it is beyond the scope of the "normal" you--you are not enough, here and now, to make that leap, as you are.

Failure vs Success: by all means, don't "punish" yourself for failing--but do remember to forgive yourself, because failure is not a "necessary" part of the spiritual journey.

The message: unlike any other worthy pursuit (learning to read, play the piano, mix a cocktail, etc) learning to consciously create your reality has no learning curve.
You didn't fail because that's a normal part of any learning process, because that's what naturally happens when you're trying to master a new skill--oh no, you failed because your "blockages" got in the way.

Imagine a world which really operated with that idea--Michael Jordan processing his inner child instead of practicing his hoop shot, stem cell researchers working through their martyrhood after Bush's press conference--everybody pawing through their psyche every time they failed, instead of trying again and again (and if *necessary*, yet again) until they succeeded.

If there's anyone lurking out there who still buys into the Lazaris material, at least (at the very least) respect yourself enough to walk away from this idea, if no other; it kills initiative, confidence and desire. You have the right to fail--and fail often--without feeling that you *should* have just stepped into success with ease and elegance.

Anyone else have any Lazarian ideas that seem extremely unsound to you, with a deeper, longer bite than the more easily discarded escapism of ladies & lords & eagle people?

flo

You wrote,

"Peny died because she did not believe she had to take care of herself like the rest of us. I believe that she was waiting for Lazaris to heal her, and that Jach in his pretense assured her that he would. I think everyone around her invested in that belief as well, and that is why they did not call in a doctor."

Your entire take on Penny in this post I feel is so insightful and needs to be taken very seriously.

As a parent of a critically ill child, I followed the spiritual advice of Lazaris for a period of time and now realize that I not only drove myself to the point of a mental collapse, I also put my child in the way of real danger. I honestly believed that Lazaris could help my son and there were times where I resisted medical treatment because I felt there was "another, more elegant way." I credit the higher aspect of myself and the higher aspect of my son for pulling me out of this warped space. Also the reality of having a child that could die very quickly if you make the wrong move readjusts your perspective on reality. If I had fully believed what Lazaris claims…"You create your own reality and you can recreated it by doing steps 1-7, etc.", there is a good chance that my son would not be with us right now.

This is very scary shit for me. I challenge any 'Friend of Lazaris' who would accuse me of being in negative ego or martyr for criticizing Lazaris and Jach, to get a fucking reality check.

Lynn

P.S. Note to Steve,

My son does 30 mins of cardio a day. One of the reasons why he is doing as well as he is.

Thank-you for what you wrote to Brad.

Katie I don't mind at all you saying we talked on the phone.

It must be incomprehensible to Brad and others like him who aren't familiar with the lazaris material to understand why we feel the way we do.

How could they know the despair we feel when we wake up and realize we have built our lives on a dream that isn't real.

The dream of having lazaris with us at all times (we were told how someone blended with lazaris before an automobile accident and because of that and her creating it she didn't have the accident) I relied on the fact that if I ever needed help and asked lazaris to blend that he would be there.

I relied on the love that lazaris promised - that he would be with me "forever and a day" and would be waiting for me when I died and continue to be with me for the rest of eternity. He said he would help us grow and evolve through the higher levels.

He said on the longevity tape that sometimes all we had to do was ask. When I found out my Mother (and my best friend) whom I had lived with for 12 years had terminal breast cancer that had spread to her bones I went home and wrote lazaris and asked him to heal her. A request was made into the "Crystal Cave" for her to be healed. When that didn't appear to be working I used the "Night Dream"
tecnique to find that place of healing for her almost everynight for a year. Oh God. Sometimes I would fall asleep before I reached the healing place and feel terrible.
I would try to channel the healing energy - after all lazaris said that any of us could on the "Healing: The Nature of Health" tapes. He even told us how to place our hands. Of course when it didn't work I'm trying to process what in me that wouldn't allow it to work.

At other times I'm using the manifestation tecniques to see her healed and going into the unconscious to the tunnel of light to get to the new future and change it. Each time waiting for that indicater (within 72 hrs.) God, sometimes I would think I got the indicater and get my hopes up and then NOTHING happened.

When her suffering became so bad (worse than I could ever imagine) a request was made into the crystal cave for people to send energy to help her leave. She died within a week although when the request was made they told us she was shutting down.

I kept on learning the lazaris material.
I listened to the tapes and I worked them.
After all it was my way back to God/Goddess/All That is and my way to create the abundance and happiness and joy until two weeks ago when I got the e-mail from "concerned friend".

It took tremendous courage to wake up to the facts and all of the lies. I feel betrayed by Concept:Synergy.

As hard as it is to face all of this (as some of you know because you went/are going through it) it will be worth it. At least I won't be living a lie.

Sincerely,

Mickey

I had someone ask me about the "Questioning Lazaris?" ad. Turns out that we both had a mutual friend recently run over mercilessly by the orb.

The guy's life, marriage, and career had completely fallen appart -- and he has now left the Lazaris Cult.

It's amazing the kinds of questions and sparked conversations that can happen when people see you posting these beauties.

sheesh.

lotta healing going on

[QUOTE]I hope poor old Bob made it through alright, I shudder whenever I think of the insane arrogance of that Jackass in Orlando having the unbelievable gall to intervene in someone's dying process.

I wonder who will be waiting on the "other side" for that slimeball? I hope it's Peny and Michaell appropriately charred and robed in flames.[\QUOTE]

The very last time Bob and I spoke at length -- he kept asking me whether "I had asked Lazaris" about x, y, and z.

He was a mentor to me -- and a truely wise elder.

But when this shit kept cropping up after statements of my own flegeling understanding -- I had to pull away.

The thig that frightens me most here Katie, are the many stories about Lazaris "totally enveloping" people as they die.

Peny told a story on the old forum about that -- with a friend of hers who had died.

If Lazaris is indeed a classic "attention / energy / life force vacuum" guru -- in the most dark, "phony planet savior / do gooder" sense -- Peny, Michael, and poor Bob may indeed -- at this very momment be in after death environs that might not at all suit the powerful and free -- yes.

Steve