Welcome!

You wrote:

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...there is a possibility that a lot of the way we think he views Peny was never actually written by him at all. I recently read that letter he supposedly wrote at the beginning of the Sacred Journey book and it just didn't "sound" like him. It was as florid and weird as the stupid flyers C:S sends out ad nauseum. It is very possible that Jach wrote that "Love letter" as "Lazaris" calls it in the book.

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I have heard "Lazaris" speak glowingly of Peny in seminars and on tapes as well. If Lazaris was mis-quoted, wouldn't they have an obligation to correct the information later? I've often heard the theory that some of the stuff comes from Jach and some from Lazaris. I don't think it makes sense. Certainly, if someone came in here claiming to be me, I would set the record straight, ASAP. Unless what they said was really wise and made me look good Just kidding...

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But as one of my friends pointed out, it is intellectually dishonest to dismiss the entire body of Lazaris material out of hand

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. If Jach is an out-an-out fraud, that doesn't mean that everything he said while claiming to be Lazaris is false. It would be absurd to say that something is wrong simply because "Lazaris" said it.

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In fact, while there is very good evidence pointing to the fact that he (Crystal Queen) and Peny never stopped being friends after the "Forum Storm"--and who cares, btw, she can be friends with whoever will take her, like we even have a say--several people I know think he knew their gig right off and thought it would be fun to run them around a little.

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After Peny died and Jach sent out that irresponsible email glorifying Michaell's suicide, I called the Crystal Queen on the phone to see if he may be able to talk some sense to Jach. He told me he had been in contact with C:S all along and knew exactly what was going on. He then told me he knew about the "filth" I was spreading on the internet, told me to F*** myself and hung up.
So there's no question in my mind that the relationship continued.

And I do think it's our business because people in the Forum were told to "get out of their co-dependent" relationship with him if they had anything good to say about him. People were ordered to hate him. It is our business that these scumbags saw fit to judge others' mental and spiritual state while they played footsie with the "enemy".

I wonder if they worked out a deal where the Crystal Queen (I like that moniker, BTW) would take the fall for Peny Soprano in exchange for all the wonderful Tibeten Buddist trinkets Peny was buying on eBay.

Pippa and I just got into a little discussion about the famous Crystal Queen who reigned supreme in the Forum and Peny's heart until according to legend, Peny recognized her co-dependency with him (him controlling her of course, no fault on her part, but lots of all of us Forum members)

Some of us know the theme song to this saga, think Pink Panther think "dead aunt, dead aunt, dead aunt....."

Hey, I know you are reading here. Read this.

And when you're finished read this. Peny never ended her relationship with Mutha Crystal. That joke is on you. So is Lazaris' silence on the matter.

Peny to me Saturday, April 08, 2000 2:59 PM

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Dear Katie,

It's ok, I'm not at all upset with you -- I am getting so many emails from people coming out of a fog about XXXXX, so many things are falling into place for me.

It's interesting that you were mad at me for the way I let XXXXX get away with murder in the forum (which I totally understand and do not blame you for feeling at all) and yet....when you saw me stand up to him, you immediately wrote that email to him, assuring him he was a precious part of your life and he was missed, etc.

Those two don't jive, do they? Why wasn't there any anger at XXXXX for his repeated belligerent behaviour?

See, what I am trying to say is that so many of us are now realizing our own responses to his form of controlling, of being a bully who would be so charming one minute, so terrible cruel the next. Sick stuff.

That's why I said this is classically co-dependent, to an extreme.

So much to learn about ourselves here!

Everyone was clear who I was referring to in the Elian thread -- my god, did you not notice how far over the lines of basic decency he went in those threads? He attacked Susannah brutally and he lied in the doing -- when she took the time to write a post proving his lies, he blew her off. You didn't see this?

At the time, forum management was going crazy -- he had said cruel and profane things about Catholic nuns (something about their penis fetish????) and then personally attacked several people, including telling all of us that if we did not agree it was best to send Elian back to Cuba, we did not care about that child!

Who the hell does he think he is???

Anyway, I told forum management to back off because he was going through some work stuff and surely he would see what he was doing, yada, yada, yada.

I was WRONG.

So many times I knew that but I cut more slack for XXXXX. We didn't just communicate daily -- we were very close.

But it doesn't qualify as an excuse for being emotionally abusive that you have some work problems. Nothing qualifies for that.

There is so much I could say but I do not know how confidential you'll keep it, in terms of XXXXX. I was amazed at your email to him because he has certainly been abusive with Ted.

XXXXX is not going to apologize -- he never apologizes. He never takes personal responsibility for his actions. Never and I say that knowing what I am saying.

This is not the first dust up between us. A friend emailed me and asked me,"how much of this can you pretend is ok and look yourself in the mirror? You don't take this shit from anyone else. Wake up."

That friend is correct -- XXXXX has gone too far with me many times and never apologized and I have let it go.

I am not sure why it became so important to all of us to curry his favor......many people are telling me it is because we saw him slaughter others and wanted to avoid that pain at all costs. I can see that.

I am not upset with you at all -- I hope you're no longer confused about what is going on.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Btw -- it was useful for me to see the emails between you and XXXXX. You know us 6s who lean to 5s -- we like to get the information.[g]

Much love,
Peny

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This is the mail I wrote to Peny to which she responded above. Thank you for your concern in advance, but my knees, ass, and forhead have long since healed.

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Dear Peny,

Regarding my e-mail to XXXXX, I am resisting my initial impulse to play
the innocent victim of his game playing. Although I certainly didn't
expect or desire that XXXXX would use my e-mail to play head trips with
you, upon reflection I have to admit that I was harboring anger toward
you when I wrote to XXXXX. Although I do sincerely care about XXXXX and
have concern for what is going on with him right now, I can't say that
I would have written to him in that particular moment if I was being
clean and honest about my feelings.

To be specific, I was having bad feelings about the way your
relationship with XXXXX was playing out in the forum. I was feeling
angry and resentful that it seemed XXXXX had immunity to behave terribly
because of his friendship with you. I was also angry that in your
initial post in the Elian thread in which you began to explain this that
you weren't specific in detailing what had gone on and your post left me
wondering who was being accused of abuse. Rather than process all this
appropriately, I took a very cowardly and backhanded tactic for
releasing my frustrations in writing to XXXXX. I tried to tell myself
that I was just being a loving person, but martyrs never are, are they?
I also realize that I further compounded the situation by ccing you my
response to XXXXX prior to processing and coming to a place of honesty
with myself, you and XXXXX.

Peny, I know that my childishness, irresponsibility and martyrhood have
negative impact.
That my careless actions impacted you causes me enormous regret and
remorse.
I am taking responsibility to deal with my issues appropriately.

I hope you will accept my sincere apology.

Lots of love,

Katie

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Humiliating as the close is, maybe you can see how the seeds for Forum Storm were sown.

What is this? Someone questioning Peny, no matter that she is laying prostrate on the ground?

Fuck!

XXXXX hysterically shrieked to us over the phone on the night Jach sent the Glories of Suicide e-mail that he had remained in touch with Peny, that "they" were grieving, and that I should be removed from the earth for the filth I was publishing on the internet.

I guess Lazaris told him to say it.

Katie

To put this in perspective for those who missed the big show:

Expletive deleted (whom Katie refers to as xxxxx) finally dissed you in the Forum after abusing others for years with your blessings. After you kinda admitted to having a co-dependant relationship forced on you by expletive deleted, the Gang all posted about how vulnerable you were being.

Then a free-for-all took place where FOLs were encouraged to write their own tales of woe for having been co-dependent with ED. That's when Katie wrote to ED and he forwarded it to you.

Meanwhile, anyone who wrote anything positive about ED, even as an aside to their thrashing of him, were told to "get into their adult", and "end their co-dependent relationship" with ED.

You wrote:

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It's interesting that you were mad at me for the way I let XXXXX get away with murder in the forum (which I
totally understand and do not blame you for feeling at all) and yet....when you saw me stand up to him, you immediately wrote that email to him, assuring him he was a precious part of your life and he was missed, etc.
Those two don't jive, do they? Why wasn't there any anger at XXXXX for his repeated belligerent behaviour?

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Yes, Peny, they do. And the word is jibe. (I wouldn't normally correct one's grammer, but you were particularly proud of yours). It is possible to be angry with someone and still feel compassion for them. Have you ever listened to a Lazaris tape? Or better yet, your own Inner Voice?

She writes:

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So much to learn about ourselves here!

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Right. When Peny fucks up, everyone is responsible. When others fuck up, Peny loving helps by thrashing them into the next time zone.

Peny wrote:

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He attacked ----- brutally and he lied in the doing -- when she
took the time to write a post proving his lies, he blew her off. You didn't see this?

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Yes, Peny, we saw it and Katie and I responded. You responded to our response by telling Katie and another poster to be quiet. Meanwhile you enabled ED with his little chat about hot chocolate. What planet were you on? (I know, "pick one and we'll be there" - Lazaris famous response to which realm they're from)

She wrote:

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Who the hell does he think he is???

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Um, who you made him? Or did he make you what you were? Or did Jach?

She wrote:

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I was WRONG.

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If only you had the integrity to say that in public.

You wrote:

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...You know us 6s who lean to 5s -- we like to get the information.[g]

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Really? Is that why you insisted on being protected by your Gang? Or do you just like to know about everyone else's weaknesses?