Emphasis of Family - CosmicFool Highlights
Emphasis of Family
Posted by Pippa John on 08-09-2001 09:55 PM
My views of Lazaris
Hi, Craig:[[[[Your questions about sex are most thought provoking. I think there are other areas where Lazaris also doesn't have a clue. The biggest that comes to mind is family. Of course, without sex, you don't have much of a family to worry about!]]] I agree pretty much with this. Sigh. When I think about how stupid a lot of his advice on family is--for example, he did some tapes with some woman named "Beky" who is so annoying to listen to and mostly shallow--I get really, really sad and angry. My spouse and I made some decisions about our family directly due to things we heard Lazaris say. But, even though a lot of the Lazaris information I have used to heal my own relationship with my parents--shame, abuse, etc, I am not sure the "advice" my spouse and I have used in our own family now was not more than the twisted way Peny and Jach seem to view family, and thus, hurtful and damaging to our homelife. Something I always noted, but chose to ignore (one thing of many) was how much it seemed to me the Gang, from Jach on down, viewed parenthood with condescension. One of the most disturbing things I ever heard about the whole slimy mess of Orlando is that Michaell left his daughter. While no one knows the reason why, and perhaps there is a good one, how can a person do that? I am sure, though, that whatever the reason, Peny would NOT have been a willing stepmother. Christ, I shudder at the thought of her being a mother at all. [[[[Why do we have such a restrictive view on certain topics? Does Lazaris need to experience physicality through Peny and Jach to be able to comment on it? If so, are we all destined to become like Peny and Jach if we follow the material "good enough"?]]] These are really great questions. I hope if Lazaris is real this is not so. Like you said in one of your posts on the other site, if so, then Lazaris has no right to present himself as knowing more than we do, bar none. He needs to give us the disclaimer and let us know he is limited by being intheir "set" to use his own terminology. But, then, if he experiences humanity through Jach and Peny, it would seem more likely that it is all not real, and just a break in Jach's psyche. [[[[Are we all part of one huge experiment? That would be somewhat OK if Lazaris had the integrity to admit it. But he hasn't.]]] Yeah, I have wondered that, too. Well, as my spouse said, if they planted all these weird ass things in me, I can't tell so they "got me." I too feel that there is nothing waiting to blow up in my consciousness, but how the hell would I know
since I can't tell anyway. As Lynn was saying, it has crossed my mind that if Lazaris is not just Jach wanting to keep Peny with the aphrodisiac of Lazaris, then what if Lazaris is real but not all that he says and he has been helping us heal, but with a sort of Dorian Gray extraction of which we are unaware? He has talked to us about how we are helping to bring about the new world, and that others in the universe were jealous of this, blah, blah, blah, but that the choice was given to us humans and that there was some influence on this decision. Really, what the hell does all that mean? Are we part of some grand experiment. There is a whole new meaning to the Great Work, the Grand Adventure Lazaris talks about if so. It is when I think about this kind of stuff that I question my certitude of the actual help I received from Lazaris. Two seemingly unrelated things come to mind: one is that at the Millennium event, the climax music of the midnight meditation was the instrumental version of "My Heart Will Go On" from "Titanic." I thought this was creepy. Whose heart will go on? And where will the rest of the being be? Why are we letting a heart go on anyway? What else stopped? And the other is that I can't recall ever meeting anyone who ever found Lazaris in a time of complete wonder and fun in his or her life. Maybe those people exist, but anyone I have ever talked to seem to have found Lazaris in their hour of darkness. Is this a weak time when we are easiest to manipulate? These two things come together in my mind to pose the question: when Lazaris refers to "they" and "we" just how many different they's and we's are we talking about here and what the hell do they really want? I don't want to get manic about this: most of the time I just realize that I am not ever going to trust Lazaris again and that I am moving on, but then other days I let myself go deeper into wondering if I can't trust lazaris now, what in the past should I reconsider? And yet there is a lot of growth I gained from working with the materials and I haven't heard it as succinctly anywhere else. Is it a needless excerise to wonder if I was somehow baited and switched? Or, not. PJ
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Posted by Katie on 08-12-2001 03:54 PM
My views of Lazaris
Hi Pippa,
quote:
When I think about how stupid a lot of his advice on family is--for example, he did some tapes with some woman named "Beky" who is so annoying to listen to and mostly shallow--I get really, really sad and angry. My spouse and I made some decisions about our family directly due to things we heard Lazaris say.
Yes, Ted and I did so also, and it also makes me sad and angry. In a nutshell, the advice sucked, and was harmful. It's interesting that some of the most harmful moments for me came during an intensive that Craig and I both attended, the Archetype intensive in LA back in 89 I think. The Orb was working with us on our parent issues because allegedly if we projected our unhealthy attitudes toward our parents onto the Archetypes we would get fried like bugs or something. There was a lot of bad advice given all leading to the conclusion that parents were screwed up and the best thing was to release them. I may be simplifying this to an extent, but I don't think so. Maybe Craig has more detailed recollections. I do recall deciding during that intensive that I was best served to sever ties with my mother.
quote:
But, even though a lot of the Lazaris information I have used to heal my own relationship with my parents--shame, abuse, etc, I am not sure the "advice" my spouse and I have used in our own family now was not more than the twisted way Peny and Jach seem to view family, and thus, hurtful and damaging to our homelife.
I think this is an example of how the Jachzaris materials wove scholarly theory into personal dogma. I won't at this point even go so far as to say that I agree that the shame work, or any of the lifted information is valid, but I will agree that it is at least based on thinking and philosophy which has come from respectable sources.
quote:
Something I always noted, but chose to ignore (one thing of many) was how much it seemed to me the Gang, from Jach on down, viewed parenthood with condescension.
I recall Peny latching on to a question I asked in the Forum during a very odd discussion about parental responsibility. The question was "why do we deify motherhood?" Peny wanted people to roll with that one, but as I recall, it died a quick death.
quote:
One of the most disturbing things I ever heard about the whole slimy mess of Orlando is that Michaell left his daughter. While no one knows the reason why, and perhaps there is a good one, how can a person do that? I am sure, though, that whatever the reason, Peny would NOT have been a willing stepmother. Christ, I shudder at the thought of her being a mother at all.
I believe, based on information I have been provided that Peny insisted that Michaell sever ties with his daughter. I speculate that she was too jealous and possessive to "share" him with anyone.
I also have information which indicates that Jach has recently begun to contact his own family after an absence of somewhere near 30 years in which he failed even to attend his own parents funerals. If true, this would indicate that Peny also pressured Jach to sever ties with his family as well, and that now that Jach is free of these restrictions he is anxious to renew his connections.
Along with this information came the speculation that Jach is very lonely now. Wouldn't that be an interesting bit of Jach lore? How could someone with such a large, passionate, and devoted following feel lonely unless he truly does not feel any of the love and intimacy with followers and loving Gang that he claims to have? Is is possible that with Peny gone, there is no one left in Jach's life who is capable of filling his emotional void? Isn't his channelling career fulfilling and gratifying enough, as he claims, that he feels the need to now re-connect with people who have not been in his life for decades? quote:
But, then, if he experiences humanity through Jach and Peny, it would seem more likely that it is all not real, and just a break in Jach's psyche.
My sentiments precisely.
quote:
Well, as my spouse said, if they planted all these weird ass things in me, I can't tell so they "got me." I too feel that there is nothing waiting to blow up in my consciousness, but how the hell would I know since I can't tell anyway.
Although I have concerns about the potential impact of subliminal suggestions via the hypnosis sessions we all allowed, I don't feel a tremendous concern about how much power this may have had ultimately. I just can't credit that much power to what I believe to be a pathetic side-show perpetrated by a clever and arrogant huckster. Clever? yes. Powerful? Only to the extent that we allow. IMO of course. quote:
As Lynn was saying, it has crossed my mind that if Lazaris is not just Jach wanting to keep Peny with the aphrodisiac of Lazaris, then what if Lazaris is real but not all that he says and he has been helping us heal, but with a sort of Dorian Gray extraction of which we are unaware? He has talked to us about how we are helping to bring about the new world, and that others in the universe were jealous of this, blah, blah, blah, but that the choice was given to us humans and that there was some influence on this decision. Really, what the hell does all that mean? Are we part of some grand experiment. There is a whole new meaning to the Great Work, the Grand Adventure Lazaris talks about if so.
Again, I believe this all to be cotton candy fluff, effective to fill up time and space. I don't choose to give it any power beyond what I would give to a dishonest "friend" who deliberately lied and betrayed me for fun and profit.
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It is when I think about this kind of stuff that I question my certitude of the actual help I received from Lazaris.
Absolutely, me too. Show me the money, I say. Where are the stellar successes and exceptional relationships and lives we were promised? Where are they within the Gang?
I say this from the perspective of someone who has not done too shabbily in creating a productive, comfortable, secure life, and a not insignificant number of loving, gratifying relationships. All well and fine, but I can't see that as a common thread throughout the followers of Lazaris. I am too personally familiar with the many steller failures of others to create even a modicum of stability in their lives and relationships. I credit myself, and my own intentions for my successes, not the Orb. Although life has moved along quite satisfactorily, that is not what I was shooting for with the L materials. I was shooting for the promise of much much much more. I still ponder where my life would have taken me had I never bothered with all this ridiculous fluff and nonsense and followed my own instincts rather than investing in that invention of Jach Purr-Sell's.
quote:
Two seemingly unrelated things come to mind: one is that at the Millennium event, the climax music of the midnight meditation was the instrumental version of "My Heart Will Go On" from "Titanic." I thought this was creepy. Whose heart will go on? And where will the rest of the being be? Why are we letting a heart go on anyway? What else stopped?
Hmmm...interesting recollection, I had forgotten about that. I am sure that as that music was playing, my mind was most engaged with trying to sort through that creeping sickening feeling I was having as a result of having just met Peny face to face. I was literally in shock and dismay over my "unexplainable" inability to feel anything but a cold chill down my spine at the thought of her.
quote:
And the other is that I can't recall ever meeting anyone who ever found Lazaris in a time of complete wonder and fun in his or her life. Maybe those people exist, but anyone I have ever talked to seem to have found Lazaris in their hour of darkness. Is this a weak time when we are easiest to manipulate?
Ted and I were not at all in crisis or darkness when we were introduced to the L materials. We were actually doing work that was quite similar on our own, and impressed that some extra-terrestrial endorsed by Shirley Maclaine was of the same mindset. We then defaulted to him rather than pursuing our own paths.
I had an interesting experience over the weekend, a friend asked me to conduct one of the sessions we were experimenting with prior to our L involvement, about which I have written elsewhere on this board. It was just a curiousity experiment, and I had reluctance, but did some research before revisiting the techniques we had evolved from our own experiments and what I came up with is that we were doing what is now defined as "Alchemical hypnotherapy", almost to the letter, except that we did not provide any therapy, but allowed for the "subjects" to provide their own. Once again I was very taken with the fact that what Jach is doing is really not all that revolutionary or profound. For God's sake, we stumbled upon it in our own kind of naive enthusiasm for all the "new-age" dogma that was floating around in the 80's. We had a kind of interesting session actually, which I'm still pondering.
quote:
I don't want to get manic about this: most of the time I just realize that I am not ever going to trust Lazaris again and that I am moving on, but then other days I let myself go deeper into wondering if I can't trust lazaris now, what in the past should I reconsider?
Again, I echo you're thinking here. No, I don't want to get manic either, but I very much want to know exactly what did happen to me, and for some reason, I am compelled to know why.
quote:
And yet there is a lot of growth I gained from working with the materials and I haven't heard it as succinctly anywhere else.
I wish I could agree. I consider it to have all been a poisoned laced cocktail. I know it sure tasted good at the time, but this hangover is wicked!! Like anyone remembering a drunken revelie, I know it all sure seemed fun in the moment, but what kind of fool did I make of myself during that party, and what is the state of my liver today? 
quote:
Is it a needless excerise to wonder if I was somehow baited and switched? Or, not.
IMO, it is never a needless exercise to wonder.
PJ, I'm happy to have the opportunity to wonder, and maybe wander along with you, and maybe you will understand when I tell you that there is something particularly gratifying to me that you specifically are here.
Katie
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