I read with interest your experience with Jach and Peny outside of Concept Synergy. I'm reading a book by Steven Hassan called "Combating Cult Mind Control", and it's very interesting.

While the Lazaris material in and of itself doesn't contain some of the crucial characteristics of a destructive cult (but does contain others - hypnosis without permission which is deceit for one, and if you believe Lazaris isn't real then fraud for another), I found the Forum exhibiting more cult dynamics with Peny as the central figure.

Steven Hassan writes concerning cults and mind control, "...a good point for information gathering and assessment is leadership. Who is the leader in question? What is his or her life history? What kind of education, training or occupation did he have before starting the group?"

You know, I'm incredulous that I knew absolutely nothing about Jach when I decided to let myself experience the "meditations". Later the information I did get was from their own books and what I knew about Peny was Jach's vouching for the fact that "Peny doesn't lie" at the beginning of the Lazaris videos, and Lazaris' endorsement of her as a particularly beautiful energy.

I really gave both Jach and Lazaris a lot of credit and trust, when I had little if any information about "either" one of them.

But now I want to know, because you know, those meditations are NOT meditations. Reading material on different sites I have come to realize that what they are, infact, are hypnosis sessions. I want to know who I've been letting conduct hynotherapy sessions with/on me under the guise of meditations and blendings.

I look forward to any information you may choose to share. Knowledge is power...and liberating even if not expected or what you might have hoped for. I want to know the truth and not just Concept Synergy PR.

Whew, this board is amazing! I'm just loving all these wonderful posts over the past few days. It's very inspiring and exciting to read here these days. Much nicer than the several months when Ted and I were essentially posting back and forth to each other, and had the good fortune to host the occasional wandering refugee from some New Age UFO message board or the like.

I sure lost my serenity today though, let me tell ya! Maybe you noticed on my Dim Bulb Burning thread!

I mentioned there that someone had shared some thoughts on another siege in the Forum and I got enough detail to make me feel as though I was back there having my mind bent again. Creepy stuff, very very creepy.

These guys are relentless. But, we've all talked about that over and over again.

What occurred to me as I was pondering all this is that the big change from my Forum days is my awareness of mind control tactics, and that I've spent a lot of time evaluating how C/S, especially the Forum uses them.

I was thinking how no one ever brings these concepts into the "loving conversations" so they remain inside the "set" that C/S has defined for what is appropriate and rational behavior. It's scary to realize how many people remain influenced by this skewed perspective, yet the True Believers remain True for the most part. (Except for us renegades of course!) The names were the same, and so were the words, but there seem to be more of them, with some serious crudeness sprinkled in for good measure. It seems that the boundaries have stretched to allow for flat out vicious, filthy,threatening language now. At least when I was there, there was a bit more of a facade of decency. Could it possibly be true that Peny actually said she would like to smack someone in the face? Is she that out of control now, or was she always? Is that OK with any of you reading along here? Is that what you call Love?

I know it's hard for some, or even unthinkable to label C/S as a cult. It sounds so far fetched and ridiculous to some, I'm sure. The thing is that no one has to accept my evaluation of that. There is so much information available, and I know I keep saying that, but I hope it encourages people to do some homework. Especially those who read here to prove to themselves what a bunch of "negative ego" asses we all are. How about stepping outside of that C/S defined "integrity" and see how it holds up when compared to well known and widely accepted cults, like Scientology? Let's see if the glove fits, and then you can forget about worrying what our motives are here, and relieve yourselves of the burden of analyzing our characters and states of consciousness. I know the Forum teaches that as a responsibility, but I challenge that, and ask you to put that fundamental premise to the litmus test. Snap out of it people, this is not about anyone's "negative ego". This is manipulated abuse. Wake up!

Prove something else to yourselves, prove that C/S doesn't meet the criteria if you have the courage. Even "Lazaris" would encourage you to research, think and evaluate. Surely you couldn't convince yourself that it would be an insult to "them" to do so. Why not exercise that integrity we keep hearing about?

I'm posting a link to Steve Hassan's excellent Cult Awareness website, specifically the section which explains his BITE method for evaluating whether or not a group meets the criteria for a cult or destructive group. Steve is a prominent cult expert, and from my perspective does an incredible job of providing all the tools anyone could need to do their own evaluations. Steve's domain is Freedom of Mind, how could anyone not be interested in taking a peek there?

BITE is an acronym for four kinds of control;
Behavior, Information, Thought, Emotions.

Also, on Steve's site there is a submission form, which is intended for use by those who wish to have their group included on the list of suspected cults, but it is also an exercise for anyone who is open and willing to ask themselves questions. The form can be filled out and not submitted, following the exercise doesn't necessarily mean that you have to send it in. The exercise follows the BITE criteria.

I filled it out a few months ago when I first visited Steve's site, and at first I wasn't seeing how C/S fit the mold. Then, little by little, the questions began to make me think and remember. How were I and others Behavior, Information, Thoughts and Emotions controlled? When I heard these new stories today, it all came in a flood. Because I had this model in my mind, I could easily see what was happening, and I knew why this time. I was very much able to stand outside the C/S logic and apply my own.

What is happening to people in the Forum isn't funny. I can make my jokes about it, we all can. But, it simply is not really one bit funny. People are being judged, humiliated, and sickened, by ugly swipe after ugly swipe, and it seems that more and more people are jumping in to take their shots. I heard that one poster actually wrote and apologized for not helping out more, after a little lecture from one of the Jr. Gangstas and then she timidly took her first shot. Applause, applause, we have a new Gangster in training.

But, what these sycophants don't get is that they will NEVER be full fledged Gangsters. Not only that, but they are for the most part torn to shreds behind closed doors by the Grand Gang Members. This is one bit of Information which is carefully controlled.

READ THIS PEOPLE: YOU ARE BEING RIDICULED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. ALL OF YOU!!! IT IS WHAT THEY DO FOR SPORT.

Think about it, think about the nasty nasty way they talk in the Forum, the flat out plain as the nose on your face ugliness is WHO THEY ARE. They practice it over tea and crumpets served from Peny's expensive chintz china that you so generously paid for.

Jach and Peny give NOTHING to anyone, you have paid for every word out of Jach's mouth, and paid handsomely. How can you believe that you are being given a GIFT? That mantra is no more than a cheap marketing trick. How many of you hang up the phone when some telemarketer excitedly informs you that you just qualified for a GIFT? What is the first question anyone with half a brain asks? "How much will it cost?" How much is this GIFT costing you?

OK, I'm finished. Maybe you can tell that I'm fired up tonight. I am outraged at what I heard today.

So, anyone want to talk about the BITE model?
and whether or not they see C/S fitting it?

All the best,

Katie

How's this for a cult tactic:
Peny has been known to refer to ex-Lazarians as "crabs". I don't think she means that we are irritable - she's refering to the fact that crabs left in captivity will pull crabs back who are attempting to gain their freedom.

I would estimate that there are maybe 3,000 people worldwide who work regularly with the Lazaris Material. And some of these people need to be beaten "back into their adults" by the High Priests and Priestesses of Orlando. That means that, out of 5 billion people on the planet, less than 3,000 are safe to associate with!

Or, as Harpers' Index would put it: 1,666,666:1 - the ratio of inhabitants of Earth to the number that are "safe". So if you live in a metropolitan area of half a million people, there is probably noone but yourself who is not of the "Consensus Reality". Quite an exclusive club!

Most cults have descriptive terms for people not of the cult - e.g. Hare Krishnas refer to non-believers as "karmies", those still subject to the laws of karma. There is always lingo within cults to differentiate the "saved" from the "unsaved". In the Con:Sin cult, the unsaved are of the Consensus Reality, Consensus for short. The saved can still have compassion for the unsaved, but they need not take them seriously. The "saved" people's job is to save the unsaved, by being Map-Makers or by proselytizing.

As in most cults, the ex-believers are considered more dangerous even than those who never believed. They are to be avoided at all costs. Dehumanized by being likened to "crabs".

Rick Ross, a cult expert offers a very interesting set of criteria for defining a cult and determining whether a cult is destructive or not. His site is www.rickross.com.

Many of the criteria fit CS like a glove.

Maybe we can discuss others if anyone is interested. I just have time right now to write about the first.

Anyway the first sign of cult activity according to Ross is :

**1.A charismatic leader--who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.*****

Lazaris certainly fits this profile. The initial focus is appealing to most. Who doesn't want to learn to manifest more powerfully? Experience a greater spiritual connection ?

The focus has clearly shifted now to the "Lazaris Personality" and the Lazaris "myth of eternal love".

As the follower grows more and more disenchanted with his or her inability to reconcile the teaching that success is natural and fun with the frustration of trying to incorporate baroque, complex manifestation and healing techniques to create that success, a sense of despair and an erosion of confidence results.

The inadequacy and inconsistency that really belong to Lazaris are internalized by the follower.

The follower who carries this flaw must inevitably return to the only source now trustworthy for counsel.. Lazaris.

Tape after tape, workshop after workshop desperately trying to expiate the doubt and sense of failure implanted by the teaching itself.

The followers turn their gaze to the Lazaris "personality" that offers them comfort and reassurance.

How many times have we heard in recent years Lazaris soothing and reassuring us that we are not "terrible and awful" not "stupid" when we fail to meet our goals.

Yes, I agree we are not "terrible and awful" or stupid. Who ever said we were???

It was a real eye opener for me to realize that when Lazaris is reassuring us about how we are "not" something [horrible, stupid, failure etc] he is actually conditioning us to believe we are.

Those not prone to that kind of self recrimination are encouraged to feel they might be "missing something" by not beating themselves up.

Those who are so inclined, simply do what comes naturally. Either way the coffers are full for the next workshop of people hungry to fix the flaw that stands between them and total abundance joy and happines.

A merry go round with Lazaris in the middle.

Why do people get snowed into believing that this "entity" loves them when many who have been attending workshops for years still haven't been granted a personal consultation?

Where is the evidence of all this love? Just because Jach/Lazaris says in a breathy longing voice how much they love us, we are to accept it?

We have been conditioned to not question the quality or the fact of Lazaris love.

Yet where was all this love when Jach and Peny were conning people with tradevest?

Where was all this love when people were being bloodied in the forum?

Where is all this love when significant numbers of workshop attendees go into serious financial debt to attend these bullshit workshops on Lemuria and King Arthur.

Where is all this love when his anointed Dolly Mama Peny North tells a follower she would like to slap her for questioning Jach?

Where is all this love for us when Lazaris allows Jach and Peny to use his name to financially gauge and already bled-dry customer with crystals and paraphernalia way, way over the usual retail markup?

Love? hardly even by Lazaris own defintion of love. Where is the caring, compassion in any of those activities?

People no doubt create wonderful things in their lives and attribute it to the love of Lazaris rather than their own increasing grasp of metaphysics. Another disempowering tool. When you do something great, Lazaris gets the credit. When you do something not great you take the blame.

Sounds like a description from the early Lazaris material of a person who takes only selective responsiblity.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

NewDawn said: I would never accuse anyone of lying or try to minimize any hurt or anger that they are feeling. My heart is saddened by all of this. I only wanted to lend a point of view about my experiences with Peny.

I much respect your point of view. I guess my point is a very different perspective. I am not really interested in Peny on a personal level. I am interested in wether or not Concept:Synergy as currently lead by Peny and Jach is a destructive cult.

So, first I need to define what I mean by destructive cult I think to best be able to facilitate this chat.

A destructive cult is a group with a clearly defined leadership, which uses specific techniques to gain and keep people closely attached to the group. In these clearly defined techniques are included mind control, which is designed to make people feel they are coming back for something they absolutely need, and coming back of their own free will, all the while manipulating and circumventing that free will.

Again, Steven Hassan has the best and clearest description on his web site about what mind control, and destructive cults are. You might want to check it out http://www.freedomofmind.com. One page I especially recommend is: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resource/srmind.htm.

Contrary to popular belief destructive cults are not all religious, they can also be political, commercial, ecological or any other form as long as they use the mind control techniques and deception to keep people coming back for more.

Also contrary to popular belief, it is not necessary for the followers of a destructive cult to live with the destructive cult, or to cut off outside contact to family, friends or even other ideas for it to truely be a destructive cult.

Now, accusing Peny and Jach of leading a destructive cult, based on the above description is much, much more serious than just calling them assholes.

In my mind it is a very serious allegation we are bringing against those two, and one that should be taken very seriously.

While I have not been involved with Concept:Synergy, the Forum, or Jach and Peny myself, I have had a chance to see some of what is happening in the Forum myself.

I have as I stated before spend a few years, and many, many hours working on finding out what destructive cults are, and how they work, and I am absolutely convinced Concept:Synergy fits the bill as the behaviors currently goes in the Forum.

If I am correct in this assesment, that means that Concept:synergy as currently lead by Jach and Peny has serious long term emotional health and mental health effects in some people's lives.

If that is true, I would believe that even a good friend would have to stand up and try to stop the abuse. For that is the bottom line here. Destructive cults abuse humans.

NewDawn said: Once again, I mean NO disrespect to anyone, anywhere. I was only lending my own point of view and my own personal experiences.

Hey, thats great. As stated before, disagreement is healthy as long as it is done in a healthy way . You standing up to speak your truth just shows you are a strong person with a lot of integrity.

I remember going to my first workshop with the feeling that I'd like to know more people with a spiritual perspective similar to mine. I was experiencing loneliness in those therms. And I was uncertain about how to proceed with my spiritual growth. My favorite spiritual material was the Seth books but I felt ready for something new, especially something I could feel more connected to than just books.

So my situationalstate of mind caused me to be open to the solutionoffered by C:S and L, "structure, authority, and close social contacts." Actually, "Lazaris" offers all of these. Structured spirituality, an ultimate spiritual authority, and even the most intimate social contact in the form of the ever available and unconditionally loving Orb.

Other information I found helpful is the section on frames. "A frame is a psychological device that offers a perspective and manipulates salience in order to influence subsequent judgement."

Some of the many "Lazaris" frames are "mapmaker", "negative ego", and "spiritual adult" all of which are "devices" that have impact on subsequent judgement. They played out powerfully on the forum causing many to participate in a type of interaction that would normally be odious to them.

Everything from Lemurian/Atlantean heritage to Nemesis is a form of framing that we played out inside of ourselves, influencing our subsequent judgement -- frame upon frame upon frame. Then of course the big picture is Lazarian Framerama where one's spirtuality, and many other aspects of living are all painted by the Orb.

Reading this really helped me to understand how I let myself get sucked in and involved for so many years. Thanks for the link Katie .

Hey, Happy Independence Day Folks!



Jade

You said: I, and others, have said that the worst thing is not the forum or C:S or Peny & the gang, but "Lazaris." Briefly put, an individual relinqishes his/her own critical thought processes, individuality, authority and autonomy due to the nature of the teachings and the ensuing spiritual, intellectual, emotional codependency. Thus "Take back your mind" is the prevailing message here to "Friends of Lazaris" and other cult followers.

Thanks for restating this. I think that as part of the codependency, people funnel their anger to everyone but "Lazaris". Amongst the hardcore, he will be unscathed at the expense of others.

My Con:Sin analysis of these cult traits:

accepting the idea pays a social debt;

Probably not in the sense it is meant. Con:Sin does though put forth the idea that those who use the techniques are making the world a better place.

it is consistent with other ideas that the person has accepted;

Very much so, it would appear that Jach studies up on all the newest rages within the "new-age" school and miraculously manifests them into new Lazaris techniques or "must have" toys, like crystals, talismans, and of course we can't forget that lovely tie-dyed "Goddesswear".

a lot of other people have accepted the idea;

Pretty much the same as above. Jach is known to abandon any information that doesn't click with the followers, draw crowds and sell tapes. All of the fundamentals are lifted from "tried and true" sources.

Also, within the community, anyone who doesn't accept a given belief is in negative-ego.

the person presenting the idea is liked;

In this case loved mindlessly.

the person presenting the idea is in a position of authority; and

Lazaris is the final authority on all things.
Peny was his human counterpart, and now we see Jach more and more assuming a position of spiritual authority on his own. Con:Sinners are surrounded by authorities. Good and faithful FOL's become authorities in their own right.

the idea involves access to a scarce resource

Lazaris' wisdom and love are a scarce resources, available only to followers, and in greater abundance relative to the amount of cash spent.

This is a fun exercise. I had an enlightening time filling out Steve Hassan's form for submission of a group to his cult list. Fortunately, I got a lot out of it myself, but given that I noted the cultish behavior within Steven's own circle, my submission got "lost".

I still think it would be a great thing if others would submit their own experiences to
Steve so that he would include Con:Sin on his list of suspected cults. Add a few compliments and ego strokes to Steve just for good measure.

I don't like Steve personally, but I think his site is awesome, and that it would be a great thing to have Con:Sin come up on his long list of questionable groups.

It's a good way to each of us to evaluate our own thoughts about whether or not Con:Sin functions as a cult.

https://www.freedomofmind.com/resources/submitinfo1.asp

Katie