This article was the best news I'd ever heard on anything!! You know what I mean.? It made me think quite a bit about the experiences I and many others had/have around the Lazaris events, and meditations.
Someone once told me that the biggest, strongest placebo was the white haired doctor-man in a lab coat with a stethescope!! So true. we know what's wrong, we do the healing we use the "tools" of medicines and Mr Dr. man in lab coat or not if we don't want healing,...whatever your personal strongest tool-preferences -metaphores are
So,.. I was thinking back to the first time I attended a Lazaris seminar. During the meditation I had a bona-fide out of body experience. Now,I didn't then "see" Lazaris clearly as a glow in the room because of it. I was just floating, and then trying not to float anymore...Well, I had thought that my going out of body during that first encounter somhow gave L. more validity. But why??? I,I,I,I went outta MY, MY, MY body. so what.!! Did that ever have ANYTHING else to do with anyone else ? NO....
Well,.. actually I have read that many persons enduring extreme sexual/physical abuse will go out and observe detatched from the ceiling. This is not my reason for being able to go out of body, but it makes me think.....why had I even jumped to the conclusion that it was due to a positive event as opposed to a negative one.....
Maybe my spirit was trying to get outta THAT ROOM real quick!!! whether I was comin' along with my body or NOT!!!! LOL....

I've been doing alot of thinking about this during my Lazaris "hangover"...post-dependency-in order to feel I had access to THE TRUTH process..... all these great successes, accomplishments.etc.. well, with all due respect these things were no more remarkable than troops enduring tremedous starvation, extreme physical/ psycological duress only to finally encounter the enemy then WIN. They were able to draw on a deep quasi spiritual strength, I don't like using the war metaphor, but "our Country"---Land of our ancestors etc.etc..Patriotism, where it seems humankind is able to draw upon deep energies....
I don't mean to diminish anyone's current true,real experience especially their successes, and group affinity, in fact I want to champion that. It clearly shows me when people put heads and hearts together, even under a false premis like conquering anothers land, or gathering others under your channeled entity hoax,to soak money outta them.....people can do trememdous things. And we will continue to do even more trememdous things as we remember who we are, and remember, and remember...and gain freedom from others imposed truths..

You wrote:

quote:

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If there are people reading this who have worked closely with Lazaris over the years and really know the material [not just heard a few tapes and went to a few workshops] and have found themselves stronger and more centered as a result of working with Lazaris, I would be very grateful to hear from them and their thoughts on what I have written.

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I think I may have been stronger and more centered as a result of working with the Lazaris Material in the early days. The information on basic reality creation did fill in some gaps. I think most of us here agree that the early basic stuff was mostly sound.

One question, of course, is could I have gotten that same good information from many other sources, such as Silva Mind Control, Seth, etc?, without the investment in a fraud? And what price did I pay for that basic knowledge (other than monetary)?

Please stop if you've heard this already but I have a theory about earning a four-year college degree. The first 2 years you learn what you can do. The second 2 years you learn what you can't do. So you're better off going for just 2 years Such seems to be the case with the Lazaris Material: in the early tapes you learn about the power of focusing your mind, visualization, etc. Then you learn about all the obstacles that stand in your way: negative ego, nemesis, shame, ad infinitum. Also, the longer one stays with the program - acedemia or Lazaris - the more one becomes invested in someone else's ideas and values.

Another thing about the Lazaris Material: (again, please stop me if you've heard it) Granny Clampett, of the Beverly Hillbillies, once developed a cure for the common cold. If you drink plenty of liquid, get lots of rest and take Granny's cold cure, your cold will be gone within 2 weeks. Similarly, if one follows the advice of all successful people, such as setting goals, maintaining a positive attitude and believing in oneself, as well as doing the Lazaris techniques, one will have many successes. The difference is, as I remember, Granny was giving away her cold cure for free.

Regarding all the LOVE we feel...It does come from inside us..!!!..most definitely...

Similar to Katies experience, I rented a video from a new-age bookstore once about Rajneesh, cuz I was curious about his hold on peepull, and his ability to make these loving peepull give him burgundy rolls royces: 57 of 'em....
Oh gosh, was that an amazing place, lots of things got built, farms planted wonderful music got created all in honor of this skinny little nuthin' guy who never said anything original either.
A powerful, and power hungry woman eventually ended his regime!!!!.Interesting.

I too looked at the faces of the believers when he was speaking...oh the lava and peas that flowed outta THEM, to HIM.. then bounced back at THEM, and they thought it was originating in HIM.!!!! what a travesty..
The power we have to generate what it is we want is immense...Too bad we don't take the credit for it.
So, Frank mee-thinks that if you were to focus on say...growing a garden now, or adopting a kitty/ doggie, you would be able to give/get all, and more of what it was you thought was coming outta L.

I went to see the Dalai Lama years ago, and during a 5 day seminar/initiation, I often felt my forehead area opening up, it's hard to expalin, but I kept running my hand over my forhead, cuz it felt as if I may be bleeding or sweat was there or something. But it wasn't, I mention this to illustrate that when we are in a place ourselves where we want healing to take place, or we want to get information (what I think was happening to me that week) then WE create these things.

I mention in an old post about having had an outta the body experience at my first L. seminar, but hey, I did that not L. perhaps it was because I wanted to have an uplifting experience LOL, but regardless of WHY,,,it was I who did it....I can just bet that many many L. attendees have even more incredible stories to tell. I think that like Katie says we were under various states of Hypnosis.!!!! and this is not a good thing when we are not told..can't make the choice.

Yet another great thread!! Yes, I had positive experiences while in a room listening to J/L, and at home listening to tapes, and I had some awesome dreams that were brought on by my involvments with said material.

I realize now that those experiences were of my own making. I had opened up to allow myself the freedom to experience these things that I could do, and most importantly I BELIEVED that it could happen because I BELIEVED that this entity was from the beyond.

That I was wrong does not diminish my creations, I'm sure that is true for all here, it only fortifies my belief that I am much more powerful than I "normally" allow myself to be.

I have been promising Katie an article on PLACEBOS-Inert medicines--I ran across awhile back,..I feel it's pertinent,and fascinating! so I'll post some of it here along with the info, so anyone can obtain the entirety.

writen by: Talbot,Margaret: The Placebo Prescription, the New York TImes Magazine Jan. 9, 2000.

"The Placebo effect-relief from pain or disease obtained without the use of any drug- has been know for many years, and some researchers now believe that new surgical techniques, as well as new medicines, should be tested with placebo controls.

For centuries, Western medicine consisted of almost nothing but the placebo effect. Belief in the cure, and the unquestioned authority of the attending physician, gave rise to hope, and hope as much as anything effected what cures were obtained through bleeding, and the staples of the 19th century and early pharmacopea.

In studies of new drugs, anywhere from 35 - 75% of participants beneift from taking a pill without any acitve ingredients, and studies of arthroscopic treatment of arthritis, mammary ligation for angina, and implantation of fetal cells into the brians of Parkinson' sufferers, have shown similar ratio of improvement, when only the charateristic incisions, rather than the actual surguries are completed.

Placebo surgury has found little favor with ethicists and patient advocates, but it may be time to re-evaluate. Medical science has improved so much..in the last 40 yrs. that it is easy , perhaps for Dr.s to neglect that part of madicine that is not science at all.

The ready and lavish display of sympathy, laying on of hands, the projection of a slightly mystical authority..are now more often the province of alternaitve medical practitioners.

Placebos are commonly used in clinical trials of new meds. and are considered a necessary nuisance by many. If as many subjects improve by taking the placebo as by taking the new drug, the new drug's effectiveness is discounted. In a recnet study of Vegf, a genetically engineered heart drug, patients who received low doses of the drug could walk a treadmill 26 sec. longer than before,2 mo. after treatment. those who received high doses walked 32 sec. longer, but those on the placebo walked 42 sec. longer!

Evidence continues to mount that even if placebos are "lies" they also heal. Dr.s in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them with a bright inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off. Asthmatics experienced dilation of the ariways when told they were inhaling a bronchodialator, although they were not. Pain after wisdom tooth surgery was releived as much by fake ultrasound treaatemet as by real treatment. 50% of colitis patients receiveing placebos in 11 different studies reported feeling better, & 50% of the inflamed intestines acutally looked better when examined!

Dr. Walter Brown, professor of Psych.@Brown Unv. has written extensively on placebo effect."There is certainly data that suggests that just being in the healing situation accomplishes something.When placebos are given for pain management, the course of pain releif follows what you would get with an active drug"

Evidence exists that placebos can work in a clinical setting as long as at least one party believes they are genuine. That is, therapies that have been discredited, such as drinking milk to treat ulcers, worked perfectly well until they were shown to have no scientific basis.
An analysis of 19 clinical trials of antidepressants concluded that the expectation of improvement, not actual changes in brain chemistry, accounted for 75% of the drugs' effectiveness.

It is a tacit agreeement of deception when patients ask for, and receive prescriptions to treat viral infections.
...This brings today's medical practices into question in fundamental ways, in that time spent with patients is declining under managed care; long term dr.-patient relationships have suffered...

The placebo effect can occur, when conditions are optimal for hope, faith, trust, and love. Practitioners should not forget that good medicine consists not only of technologies of diagnosis and treatment, but of the careful tending of the patient's expectation of relief."

This article had been dramatically edited, I tried to put in the main points though.

The details on the Parkinsons disease relief is ASTOUNDING! NPR (radio) even did a segment on the re-thinking of placebo healing after the studies showed such amazing, results.

All in all this is the best news I have ever heard...that we can xperience, and create so much more if we ALLOW it, and that it is as simple sometimes as a little yellow pill, or a laying on of a sympathetic hand.

Strange as it may seem, this is one of the ways I think Jacha** has learned to sleep at night, he hears the feedback, and pats himself on the back noting that he has been a party to this, even if he's doing it through deception. I do not want anyone to think that I condone this type of deception.

I do not think what Jach does is ok... As I see it, what helps a patient heal from a disease with a placebo quite distinct, but spiritual deception is disempowering, and I believe it disintegrates.

THIS deception, I hope comes to light; and more peepull like myself realize the magic etc. is of our own making.

I am fully convinced that it was the belief in a channeled entity that provided me with precisely the "color" of little placebo pill that I needed at that time to spur me on to create these experiences I had.

Now, to go forward to create that perfect color again, on our own,....wherewithall intact.

Thanks for your reply, it's quite provocative.

The experience you report having had with Lazaris is one that I also had many many times over the years. I remember several occasions when the energy was so intense that it literally manifested in my physically, once I could feel myself being cradled like a baby, and the sensation was so real and clear that it scared me.

During that experience, which was the result of me asking for help in a very difficult and confusing moment, I was literally taken through a process of visualization and rememberance, right back to the cradle. It was very very intense. I was given a very clear understanding that my issue in the moment was fear, and that I was feeding my fear with self-pity, a trick I had learned as an infant. Let me tell you, it was profound!

About a month later I got the Lazaris Fear tape, as I recall it was just released, and lo and behold, every word I had heard in my private experience was on that tape, almost verbatum. Tell me that didn't solidify my belief!

Helena, you are talking to some people here, myself and Ted included who were among the most serious and devoted followers.

I have had more mind shattering, glorious experiences and insights through the Lazaris years than I could ever recount. I am one who could provide the kind of experiences and successes that we keep begging to hear from others. My life is manifesting far and beyond my wildest dreams or expectations.

That soul wrenching, cold clammy fear that lived in the pit of my stomach all my life was lifted during that experience I just mentioned, and I have not revisited it since.
That experience literally changed my life.

So did my initiation to Magicianship. That was a sacred private event that I wrote about in the Forum, a few months before Lazaris provided our initiation, during the 99 culminating weekend, and again at the Millennium intensive.

So, why my disbelief then? And trust me, I am as strong and firm in my disbelief in the existance of Lazaris as I am a believer in my own experiences.

You speak of confusion, Ted, Marilyn and I, along with input from a few others,went through the most intense process of sorting through that confusion than probably anyone could imagine. It was the most intense time of my life, bar none. I had to know.

I could try to elaborate on a process that took my full and complete attention for months on end, but here it is in a nutshell.

I finally realized that the only realness in my experience came from my own desire, intention, will, and efforts. If nothing else, I had learned to trust myself and my ability to discern.

So, I applied those same tried and true methods to get to the bottom of this confusion. Finally, I just let go of the mental gymnastics, and once again, asked, from a place of surrender and openness. I became fully and completely willing to know the truth, and I wasn't sure which truth was going to make me feel better.

I've written about this here many times before, but once again, after a night of vivid dreams, and the presence of a palpable energy which over the years I had named "Lazaris", I awoke to the answer searing itself in my brain. That answer is posted on the Friend or Fraud portion of the site. The words themselves could never convey the depth of the meaning and the resonance with which they came, or the sense of complete peace they brought. That morning, the turbulence ended for me.

From that moment on, I have been at complete peace about the realness and value of Lazaris. I was told that there simply is never ever such an arrangement as that claimed to be made between Jach and Lazaris, simply because it would not make sense, or be fair, not to the "channel", the "entity" or the followers. No such arrangement between a truly "helpful and loving entity"
and any human. Those were the words.

It was not explained to me how Jach might have pulled all this off. That is still a point of speculation for me, and it is the reason that I don't have any mission to save or change anyone from their own process of knowing the Truth. This was a personal truth, like my personal initiation. I have a belief in holding on to any gift which is given to me, out of respect for the energy and love of the giving. For that reason, our house is full of some very unusual items which serve no purpose other than to remind us that someone was loving us when they gave the gift. I'm not a "re-gifter". Those Seinfeld fans amongst us know that re-gifts aren't much appreciated.

This site is here to discuss and share. I can tell you for sure that it never was and never will be Ted's or my purpose to evangelize or preach an Anti-Lazaris gospel.

The Truth exists on many levels and contains many paradoxes. To me, the key to the Truth is to recognize its resonance, then stick with that resonance, and build upon it.

For me, and many others that resonance is present in our beliefs about the realness of Lazaris, or the evilness of Con:Sin.

We are all building here, building on the resonance of Truth, that I very much believe.

It really isn't up to anyone to tell another what the Truth is, other than an incontrovertible fact which might provide a building block. There have been many of those reported here. Each of us can choose to use them or not. Some of us may choose to use them to build our foundation, and some may choose to save them for the "walls, or the "roof" of our Truth structure. Some may reject them completely. We are each the architect of our own abode. I suppose the only "proof" of the viability of our building blocks is in the strength, beauty, and functionality of our structure.

I understand your confusion, there is much that still confuses me also, that is why I am in the ceaseless quest for uncontrovertible facts with which to construct my mansion. I'm willing to patiently and diligently mine the information and experiences that are shared here and which come from other sources. That is why we continuously extend a welcome to all and any who come with an interest in sharing.

As to those carpetbaggers who arrive with a bag full of plastic Legos and use every sleazy sales technique in the book to pander them off on us, well, all I can say, is to each their own. One thing I'm quite confident about is that no plastic hammer can knock down what I have built, and that people who try will find themselves with nothing more than bleeding knuckles, and the question from me "why not build your own house, and leave mine alone?".

I wish you well and Godspeed in your process Helena, and appreciate the honest and vulnerable contribution you make.

Katie