I'm sorry for insulting you. Your remark about not being able to imagine why someone needs a channeled entity to connect with their source sounded condescending, damning, and insulting on its own, coming from somebody who took that path herself. But I could have simply said that, rather than make an obviously unwarranted snipe at your compassion.

I asked if the tapes themselves use mind control, or if the coercive aspect of C:S is expressed on on message boards. You wrote:

quote:

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We are taught that we are compartmentalized beings. There is a tape for each compartment. Negative ego, martyr, victim, self sabateur, dark shadow, light shadow, blah blah blah blah. The negative ego teachings are particularly horrendous in that we are taught to loathe and fear this vile, destructive part of ourselves, and most assuredly, that part of others.

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Well, obviously you don't like the tapes. I have trouble imagining anyone's mind being controlled by *any* tape, I guess, no matter what it says. And the more outrageous the message, the more I'd imagine a person simply brushing it aside. But it seems pointless to go around in cicrcles over what might be a philosophical or even perceptual difference.

FWIW, I think George has a good handle on the issues of this thread, clearly more in command of the material and how it could be presented in a courtroom than I am.

Brad

Firstly, I am very sorry to hear that so many have spent enough to take this beyond small claims court..it's truly a travesty to give such large sums of money to such evil peepull with no integrity....

But in a way small claims court is more difficult than regular coutr.

If jachass DOES quickly decide to make disclaimers NOW would prove to be very good for us indeed.

Especially if he'd try to make it retro-active, but whether he does OR NOT, the lack of disclaimers now for the "health tips" oR for the entire premise of what c/s is..., this is a major point in our favor.....

I agree Jade that the burden of proof that Lazaris is what he says it is would be on jach, not us..

And Steve, you are right so much damage has been done in the Bay area, if you need my input for some type of class action, I'm THERE!!

**Whomever thinks they have seen any disclaimers, please try to find them...

As court cases now use info gleaned from what is written on websites, this case would be no exception, and many of this sites posts would certainly be subpoenad, and that's fine, cuz we could prove that jach was watching this site, and acting after the fact.( by creating any disclaimers)

NO-LO press has headquarters in berkeley ... I'm sure they have a great website as well..
what I'm gonna do before calling a lawyer is to check the no-lo press books on fraud, coersion, cults etc. and see what foundation there is....

Taking this to court will be a challenge, BUT it's time has come ....

Maybe the reason litigation didn't come up so strongly before was because LIES would NOT be so easy to prove. (although I'm not forgetting your diligent work Katie)

now I think that this one big recent LIE, kinda paves the way to a deep discussion about all the other lies.

Maybe subconsciously, the fact that the nation is battling a group of brain-washed culties has brought this more to the forefront.

With all the great minds here, working together.
I believe we can make some big changes. Wouldn't it be great to take these next solid steps to deterr making money off of mind washing and spirit destroying.....

Thanks Craig for the BBB site, I will go there today and work on that.!!!

An opportunity may exist in a few lawyers out there with bad EXPERIENCES up against scientology, may want to sink their teeth into another case of fraud etc. with good backgound knowledge of the harms done by cults etc.....and may be very willing to speak with us...

Before you spend too much time on the BBB site, I think you should understand that this is a membership organization which really does not act on most complaints.

I once worked for a company which I later found out never provide the services it contracted with customers to deliver, yet one of the big selling points was that in 20 years of operation there was not ONE complaint filed with the BBB.

Well, I met quite a few people who filed complaints with the BBB. They have some kind of procedure in place which allows for a company to appear to have no complaints, even if there is a file that weights 20lbs.

The BBB is a pretty cozy organization that effectively exists to provide a good reputation for companies, for a nice annual fee that keeps quite a few people happily employed.

My advice, don't waste your time with the BBB. You have to file complaints with local officials.

I still think it would be an awesome idea to lobby the media to do a story on this group.
Somewhere there is a hungry reporter looking for a good story.

Government agencies have a tendency to get a little more energetic once the media gets it's teeth into an issue.

You said: The BBB is a pretty cozy organization that effectively exists to provide a good reputation for companies, for a nice annual fee that keeps quite a few people happily employed.

I noticed that CS is not a member of the BBB. Thus,perhaps they won't get the "preferred" treatment.

The online procedure seems fairly painless. You can walk through it to see what is asked. As it won't take much time, I have decided I will go for it.

Cheers, Craig

It certainly can't hurt to try. Although I have never heard of the BBB taking any action against a company.

Does the site explain exactly what the BBB does with complaints, besides allegedly make them public?

It would by hysterical to find that all of a sudden Con:Sin registers with the BBB!

Well, I guess we'll find out what the BBB actually does or does not do if we all file complaints against Con:Sin with them.

Cripes, I hope we don't have to open a whole new fraud investigation!

Well, if we have to go down that path, the SPCA is at the top of my list, the BBB will have to wait for the honor.

I think it is a very wise and effort-efficient move to seek out an anti-cult lawyer with *battlefield experience*.

Given -- the amount of money IMO defrauded here, the massive personal assets IMO so gleaned and now held in private by Jach Purcel, the growing clear legal strength of our case -- and the growing number of deeply angry, intensely determined members of our class -- a large class action law suit on spec -- may indeed prove quite both: financially and morally attractive to a sharp, deep vengence driven anti-cult lawyer.

Yes Katie. We finally do IMO have sufficient "honest ugly" fuel for strong new age / Hollywood tabloid media interest.

That would indeed absolutely make such a case all the more government allied -- and yes: that *much more* attractive to a sharp anti-cult lawyer -- especially one done under by the likes of Scientology's rumored terrorist underground of threatening fascist thugs.

Steve

I would like it if those who are interested in pursuing some action against Con:Sin would
correspond with me privately.

Maybe we can set up a private e-mail list server for the sharing of strategies.

I have done a lot of research on this issue, and have some thoughts and strategies I'd be willing to share. I will not share those with anyone whose identity I do not know or cannot verify.

I think it is a mistake to strategize here in public, although I think it is good to speak generally of such intentions.

Katie

I suddenly wondered if you'd read anything about cults and how they work. I'm not meaning to patronise you; in fact I've found your posts interesting and well argued. I was just thinking that you have come at the subject of Lazaris from a different direction to most people on this board, so you may have missed out on this information.

quote:

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C:S distinguishes categorically between Jach and Lazaris. If the court threw out that
distinction, it would be discrediting channeling itself.

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What C:S "distinguishes" does not take precedence over legal recognition of Jach and "Lazaris" being one and the same.

From a post to Katie

quote:

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Are the tapes and seminars, by
themselves, mind-controlling and coercive?

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Bingo! The abusive behavior on the forum is just one of the symptomsthat "Lazaris" is a mind controlling cult. Some people have never been in the forum, other's like myself spent very little time there.

Focusing on forum abuse is a diversion from the indoctrination that drew individuals to the forum, and kept them there for years.

I am reposting excerpts from a couple of my early posts (Feb) on this board to illustrate what happened to many "friends of Lazaris."

quote:

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Looking back on my relationship with "Lazaris" and C:S, I'm really struck by how I allowed what was to be an aid to my spiritual growth become more and more like the intermediary priest of organized religion. "Lazaris" gained our trust and became our "authority. The structure and dynamic of the Lazaris Material conforms to what most of us wanted to avoid.

The "Mapmakers" are the "Chosen" people to deliver and be delivered a New Age. There are
internal Devils like negative ego, and external Devils like Orion creating fear and anxiety for which more tapes and information are needed to protect against the enemy. There is the Heaven of Lemurian redemption (and going/coming Home). And confessionals in "magic time" and phone consutlations and even blendings. Then there's the God-like omniscience and omnipresence -- you can ask "Lazaris" to listen, love and protect you anywhere, any time. And guess who -- Concept:Synergy -- has the exclusive knowledge and tools (and crystals) to get us there/bring it here. All the tapes, books, videos, seminar notes that permeated my house -- even my car, even my calendar were -- physical representations of how thoroughly my mind and spirit had become enmeshed with "Lazaris." Something I thought was giving me an edge in my growth, was actually a lot of dependant, addicting, guilt producing, workaholic, expensive, limiting baggage.

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No supposedly loving "entity" who is encouraging personal empowerment would employ methods that result in what I described above. My experience, which occurred over 14 years, is commonplace. The insidious Self displacement by "Lazaris" is hard to describe unless you've been there. But I hope you get the idea.

quote:

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The "Lazaris" material makes me think of orthodontia. You end up imagining and rearranging your spirituality to fit a format, without realizing it. By the time the "Lazaris" platform has gradually and subtly conformed your spiritual perspective, you think it is The Spirituality.

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There are a many information, valuable posts that could be missed unless you select the option to see posts going back for one year.

quote:

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I have trouble imagining anyone's mind being controlled by *any* tape, I guess, no matter what it says. And the more outrageous the message, the more I'd imagine a person simply brushing it aside.

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Mind control does not work unless people are unaware that it is being used on them.
Thus it is introduced subltlely and insidiously -- not "outrageously."

The mind control perpetrated by the "Lazaris" material cannot be fully understood in segments, like "a tape." A comphrehensive overview of "Lazaris" and C:S tactics is necessary in order to understand the cult impact reported on this board. Also, in order for an individual to become subjected to mind control, there has to be enough exposure for her or him to make the crucial decision to trust. Then the hook set for manipulation, exploitation and abuse.

Anti-cult sites report that most cult indoctrinees are mentally healthy intelligent people who are at a crossroads or are adjusting to a significant life change, like college students. People are much more susceptible when at a vulnerable point in their lives. It can happen to anyone who is unwary at the wrong time.

Jade