I think it's important for all who read here to know that today our logs are flooded with lurkers. The posting doesn't show the activity, but I'm right here watching it.

This ain't a fishbowl folks. If you're interested enough to keep reading, step up to the plate.

Us regular posters have lives too.

What's goin' on?

Here is the real place to give Jach his propers, or tell us where to go. Tell it like it is, and let your soul ring out.

If you're looking for safety, ask yourself how safe it is to be in a completely controlled and contrived environment.

No Fear, there are no "negative-egos" here. Your thoughts might get put through the mill, but never your soul.

NO MASTERS, NO TEACHERS, NO GURUS.

Katie

A copy of this e-mail was forwarded to me by someone who gave permission for it to be posted here.

quote:

---

To: Jach Pursel

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 5:59 PM

Subject: Re: spam e-mail

Hi Jach,

You said you didn't want to discuss the spam e-mail in the forum.

Where can we discuss it? Someone laid the truth about Peny and Michaell's death in our laps which contradicted what you said when asked about Peny last year (you said she was busy working on other projects) and it contradicted what Lazaris said abouy Peny leaving her body and that they couldn't pinpoint what the cause of death was on the "Healing the Broken Alliance" tape. Instead of responding to these issues you made the whole issue about someone betraying our trust because they e-mailed us by getting our e-mails from the forum. At least through them we were let know what really happened. They told us the truth. Why didn't you?

Why are we treated with so little respect and to just act like nothing happened? Lazaris was my life and I trusted the information until now.

What would you do if this happened to you? You would most certainly question what had happened and confront those who weren't honest in their dealings with you.

Lazaris said, "The worst way to hurt someone was to hurt them Spiritually".

I am really hurt.

Please remove me from the Forum as I am sure you would do anyway after this e-mail.

Sincerely,

---

One has to wonder how many similar e-mails Jach may have received, or how many he will receive as the information posted on this site begins to circulate and sink in.

My observation has been that those of us who were the most devoted become the most angered once the facts begin to reveal themselves.

Evidently Jach has received some support posts regarding this mail, but you just have to wonder if even those hardcore suck ups will be able to discard the information without perusing and digesting it eventually.

As rough as some of the posts are here, I suspect that Jach is in for an even rougher time as those who stood by him through one bullshit storm after another have their ability to justify and rationalize stretched thinner and thinner.

I think that with a few exceptions, those who express the most intense outrage are the very ones who are trying to convince themselves. I've had a few e-mail correspondences with some of these true believers over this past year, and one thing that holds true for all of them is that they protest just a little too much and about something stupid, like me calling Peny "Pee North". When pressed to discuss the facts or testimony they tend to fall silent, never to be heard from again.

Maybe one day in meditation, they might get the word from one of their "unseen friends" exactly who it is that they are really mad at and why. Hopefully also in that meditation, that "unseen" will reveal themselves for who they actually are, the unfailingly wise and always loyal Unseen Self.

It took tremendous courage to write it. All of us here have had similar experiences as far as waking up and realizing that it was all a scam. It is very painful realization, but also very freeing. Congratulations on taking your life back.

What a fantastic letter to Jach! I hope others have to courage to follow your example.

We know you're not going to get a reply, but I think it is important to let Jach fully know his impact on others. He obviously isn't relying on "Lazaris" to convey the hurt and damage that he has caused to people's souls.

Thanks!

SpiritWriter you said:
"It took tremendous courage to write it. All of us here have had similar experiences as far as waking up and realizing that it was all a scam. It is very painful realization, but also very freeing. Congratulations on taking your life back".

Craig you said:
We know you're not going to get a reply, but I think it is important to let Jach fully know his impact on others. He obviously isn't relying on "Lazaris" to convey the hurt and damage that he has caused to people's souls.

I agree 100%, and I also congratulate you on taking your life back.

Definitely Congradulations are in order to whomever wrote the letter to jachass, and for taking your life back.!

I wish that the ratio would start at least one-to-one that for every washed brain, there is one that is able to struggle free..that would be a great day.!
hope it's coming soon.....

Thanks for posting that email. It’s good to know some in the forum are sitting up and taking notice.

To the emailer, we all appreciate the courage you show in standing up for your beliefs and confronting Jach directly. Asking questions and finding one’s own answers is the foundation of a true spirituality. Jach’s discouraging of both is a clear signal that it’s time to look elsewhere for what you seek. I hope you find a welcome here.

Thanks for sharing the email. I found it very poignant since I know for how many months I am *still* sorting out the lies and the betrayals perpetrated by these con artists. Think of the shock this person must have felt without the background of having read any of the information available here when they received the link to the copy of the medical examiner's report and seeing flat out how Jack had lied to them.

While I still do not think Coward was in the right by sending the letter out to people who didn't solicit the information--it strikes me as crusading--s/he isn't a criminal and this hysterical reaction in the Forum is so incredibly self-righteous. Jeremiah's codependency post is a classic. How is it possible that such really great information about codependency ever came out of that snake pit? I still think the Codependency tapes are excellent, even if Jack apparently dosen't think they apply to him.

What a smarmy, cult-leaderesque thing for Jack/Terry to do by deleting this person's email and not even address the issue.

If they had addressed this stuff to begin with, they even might have been able to keep up the charade longer with more people.

There is something else which Lazaris said once that I just can't get out of my head because it is so presaging of what has become of the troika: "Grandiosity always brings you down; that is how you as humans have set it up."

Whew.

It is stuff like that which makes me return to the posts I wrote in here and in the Lite Forum earlier this year about how I don't know to what extent Lazaris is a fake, because some things he has said just seem way beyond the ken of the brain of Jack (John R.), but it is irrefutable in my mind that Lazaris is NOT all that we have been led to believe. He might be all fake after all, I don't know, but someone in here once referred to the biblical, "Ye shall know them by their deeds."

By their own actions, the people at Con:Sin have shown themselves to be tawdry and tacky liars who think they are way above the rest of the world. If you are new to this site and think what I am saying is hyperbole, PLEASE read the archives about the things which Penny did to people behind their backs. She used your private information to spin lies and create little dramas for her own entertainment.

Christ. All that shit that Penny did behind people's backs and Jack is having a hissy about this email. Kiss my grits. At least this Coward person, so far as anyone can tell, isn't capitalizing on having the email addresses. What about all those private email rings which Penny started so she could trash people from the Forum whom she had never even personally met? How does that comply with your standards for safety, Jack?

Pippa

You said: At least this Coward person, so far as anyone can tell, isn't capitalizing on having the email addresses.

The same can be said about this forum. Katie and Ted receive no many since there are no ads on it. Further, they have to pay money to host the site. They are not using it as a vehicle for getting business. The many people who have posted here are also doing so without any business motive.

I think this really baffles people at CS. They just don't get it when people do things that aren't motivated by $$$.

You said: What about all those private email rings which Penny started so she could trash people from the Forum whom she had never even personally met? How does that comply with your standards for safety, Jack?

Great point!

I am beginning to modify my thinking on Coward's act of rebellion. Perhaps it wasn't off-base after all. I don't like the hit and run stuff of it. On the other hand, where ever this person got the addresses, in one sense, it was sort of like direct mailing. If you get direct mail about a product you might be interested in, you might be happy to receive the mailing. If not, you toss it. Most likely, the mailer got your address from a pre-existing list.

C, you might want to jump in on this, but I have another theory: I am beginning to wonder if you sent emails to people within the Lazaris fold whom you felt were friends of yours but whom you were nervous would turn on you if you told them directly that it was you sending the email. Would you be willing to tell us? Or, did you just whack out one great big email list and hit as many mailboxes as you could copy addresses?

Anyway, I think it would have been nice if C had put a name to the mailing, but the information was not pornography for goodness sakes, so why the freak out? Unless, the freaker-outer has something to hide, which is clearly the case.

Pippa

Speaking for myself, my interactions with others over the internet has led me to be cautious. I totally appreciate "Coward's" decision to send out info anon. That's where cliche's like "Don't kill the messenger" comes from.

Sad fact is that none of us take kindly to being rudely awoken out of an illusion (think about how a friend might react to info about her cheating boyfriend), and some of the people still involved in that circle seem downright vicious. Spooky but true.

That's why, even though I was never a part of the group and really have nothing to fear, sign me---SuMari

Just making a quick appearance to answer some of your questions. The list was gathered from the forum with the aid of a couple of friends. It was not 100% accurate and does not represent 100% of the people in the forum. Sorry I won't tell you who I am. I don't want to spend my time defending a lawsuit, even if it is totally without merit. For those who appreciate the information, I would love you to return the favor by spreading the word and pointing people to this site. There are many people out there who are not part of the forum (or didn't make the list). I only want everyone to have the opportunity to be aware of the information.

I ran into a friend today who used to attend the Thursday night Lazaris meetings and we were talking about how upset we were over the fact that Lazaris had lied on the "Healing the Broken Alliance" tape about Peny's death.

She said that she was going to email Jach about the spam email and I offered my help.
So we went to her computer and composed the following e-mail:

quote:

---

Date: October 25, 2001
Message: 88394

Dear Jach,

You said you didn't want to discuss the spam e-mail in the Forum. I can understand that.

Would you be willing to have an on-line conference for those of us that received the spam e-mail?

Obviously there are questions that I and others have regarding some trust issues that I feel have been broken.

I am looking forward to your response.

Sincerely,

---

So we submitted it and made sure it was posted in the forum and left for lunch.
We came back and tried to log on and she was not allowed into the J/L room.
We weren't surprised at all. So I asked her if I could put it in here and she thought it was a wonderful idea. She said that we were leaving the forum like rats off of a Stinking ship. The SSLazaris and we hope the Captain (Jach) goes down with it when it sinks.
She then came up with this little cheer:
Jach, Jach read my mail.
Jach, Jach go to hell!!

I think this website is wonderful. They can't keep the truth from coming out.

I hope Jach likes the part about having a special on-line conference for those that received the spam email. I sure did. LOL

Sincerely,

Mickey

Thanks for clarifying.

I am not especially interested in your identity, btw. My only quandry is to whether or not it is appropriate to send stuff to people without attaching your name.

On the other hand, most people in here use pseudonyms for the same reasons you didn't sign your name: not wanting to be harrassed. It's just that no one else in here has ever gone so far as to send mass anonymous emails.

In the end, it isn't that big a deal. The truth of Penny's death and Michael's suicide is being speedily trucked from one person to the next. I do think that the more people see the FACTS, the more people will demand Jack respond. The more belligerent he becomes about it all, the louder the truth seems to shout from behind him.

Pippa

I was just reflecting on the letter I sent to Jach (see the "Letter to Jach" thread). In that letter, I gave my full information - name, address, telephone number, and email address. I did not include this information in the "public" version just to avoid that late night phone call from some Lazaris nut case.

Of course, even if the mass email contained a name, there is no guarantee of who actually sent it. For example, I know all of the little technical tricks to spoof an email. I could easily send out a mass emailing that impersonated Jach. I could make it appear to come from "JachPursel@att.net", "ConceptSynergy@att.net", "PippaJohn@writeme.com" (I hope that isn't your real email address ) or even "BillGates@Microsoft.Com". Only those people who are technically sophisticated (and questioning) would ever have a clue it was sent by someone else.

The moral of the story is that you can rarely be 100% positive who you are communicating with on the internet. And as we've recently found out, the same applies when communicating with a channel.

Thanks for sharing what your friend did! I hope others follow.

Just wanted to let you know that your friend's e-mail has been zapped from the J/L forum as well? I have just checked it on reading your post and it does not appear.

Wonder what the legal position is when CS take you cash but do not allow you to then use the facilities that has been paid for?

Best Regards to all

Andy
/?

quote:

---

My only quandry is to whether or not it is appropriate to send stuff to people without attaching your name.

---

IMO, the truth is always appropriate in dealing with lies, exploitation, manipulation, and abuse.

The anonymous means of delivering the message is pretty insignificant compared to the import of the message itself.

Jade

quote:

---

I only want everyone to have the opportunity to be aware of the information.

---

So glad you provided an opportunity for people to open their senses. You are a gem.

You asked "Do they still post the posters e-mail address in the J&L room?"

The answer is NO - they have removed that attribute

Best Regards

Andy
/?

Thanks for letting me know it had been removed. As soon as we sent it in we made a copy of it in the forum. I bet it wasn't up for very long. I imagine they have somebody watching for any e-mails coming in and delete anything they don't want up there.
As far as their position on taking our money and deleting the posts I happen to have my C/S Membership Agreement in front of me. [g]

In 2. Synergy Members Section it says, "You may participate in the J&L Room (forum section), engage in conferences and chats....
Your activity in conferences and chats are subject to review, modification and deletion without notice by the forum manager or by an individual designated by the forum mamager for such purpose."

In one part of the agreement it says, "Concept:Synergy may, monitor conferences and chats and authorize restrictions on access thereto.

I thought this was interesting: "All communication from Lazaris, Jach, and Peny North are owned and copyrighted by NPN Publishing." Guess it is copyrighted before it is even spoken.

#8. Your SMS Member fees as charged by C/S are payable in advance on a monthly basis and are non-refundable.
There it is in black and white. They can deny us access and keep the money.

I was paid up through the end of the year.
No telling how many people have been denied access and won't get their money back.

I feel relieved to be out of there.

Sincerely,

You're welcome. I hope others will follow also.

Sincerely,

You're right about the emotional roller coaster that this is.
I am grateful for all the support in here.

Sincerely,

Thanks for the info - I did wonder about the legal implications and since I do not have a forum agreement was not sure - seems that they have set things up to get rich without any other considerations.

The posts in the J/L forum certainly seem to be drying up - guess that most of their forum members are "lurking" here.

I do also think that it is very very strange that only 15 forum members have supported 'J' in his attempt to shut up all discussion.

I do wonder just how many posts have been zapped - talk about control and manipulation - freedom of speech is not big in the CS fraternity.

Best Regards to all

Your friends experience of having her message zapped off the J&L forum is just awful. It gave me a wave of a sick feeling. They are controlling tighter and tighter, and I think they are getting even more paranoid. There does seem to be less and less traffic on the forum. Very interesting.

Thanks for joining in here.
The more the merrier!

You wrote:

"Anyway, I think it would have been nice if C had put a name to the mailing,"

I think, in the end, it's better that s/he didn't.

I suppose a person could get off sending endless hate mail to an anonymous email addy, but for most I'm guessing that not having Coward's identity removed a convenient target for all the emotions they currently can't express in their little Love Shack over at Con Syn.

Being able to righteously vent directly to the author who sent them the link would have both reinforced their blindess and fed their fury--by removing that possibility, they lost the opportunity to internally bury the message by attacking the messenger instead.

As well, there's a vicious, vigilante spirit at work in some of these people and knowing how they operate, giving them your name is offering yourself up to them as co-dependent victim # 1,432--you enter into that sick dance the minute they can direct verbal abuse, hatred and (still can't get over this, Ted)email viruses your way.

Whatever Coward's motivations were, the sick relief of a verbal gang bang has been denied these people--I wonder, what do they do now?

Where do they put all that anger when there's no whipping boy at hand?

I think you did the smart thing *and* the right thing--that's a rare combination.

flo

Where do they put all that anger when there's no whipping boy at hand?"

I think this is perfect.
They originally tried to blame Katie and Ted for this, and probably still do.

Coward it would not have been worth it to sign that e-mail! The deflection spin that would have come out of Orlando would have made you the bad guy and helped perpetuate this farce.
They not having any whipping boy has caused great frustration. Their actions and reactions seem to be further proof that there is "something stinky in Stinky Ville"(Orlando).

Hi Pippa,
Nice to see you here again.
If dealings with J/L/CS/the gang were on the up an up (chock full of integrity), MAYBE they would deserve the courtesy of a signature to the C e-mail. But they are continually people who lack integrity, and deserve nothing but contempt. They deserve no such courtesy.
IMO

I just want to say I am very glad you took the time to send those e-mails and it's not important that you revealed your identity.

What is important is the truth and you were willing to get it out there.

Lurkers who are reading this:

Ask yourself what is the truth in all of this.

Did Lazaris lie? Yes.

Did Lazaris say he would never lie and they have a penchant for telling the truth? Yes.

Is Concept:Synergy covering up the truth? Yes

Are people getting thrown out of the forum for asking Jach to take responsibility and answer some questions about the truth. Yes

Do you believe in your heart that if Lazaris is really Lazaris he would lie to all of us who had what we thought was a loving relationship? If you believe he would lie he's not who he claims to be. Even if we would overlook Jach and Peny's horrible behavior we cannot overlook that a spark of consciousness coming from the highest level that would ever communicate with us (that's what Lazaris said) would lie to any of us.

These are the facts. I did a lot of soul-searching before I confronted Jach and I wanted to hold onto the fact that Lazaris was still real but the bottom line was Lazaris/Jach lied to us and then we were told it would not be discussed.

The truth hurts sometime but what hurts worse is if we choose to continue to believe the lies. What does that say to ourselves?
We don't like it when someone lies to us. We should feel the same way when we lie to ourselves. If you're still undecided about what to do use some of Lazaris/Jach's advice:
"The more honest you are with yourselves the faster your growth will be."

I believe there is truth in that statement.
I also believe the truth is coming out about Jach/Lazaris and C/S.
It's up to us to face that truth and start rebuilding our lives - finding out what the truth really is and living it.

When you decide to take your life back you can post in here and have your opinions and feelings without having to worry that you'll be shamed into admitting you were in negative ego or martyr.
You'll also find plenty of understanding from the people in here who have had to give up their old path and begin a new one.
I would rather start rebuilding a new dream now than to get to the end of my life knowing that I chose to believe a lie (Lazaris) and wasted a lifetime.

Sincerely,

Mickey

quote:

---

This ain't a fishbowl folks. If you're interested enough to keep reading, step up to the plate.

---

Greetings all,

I am writing here for the first time, after lurking here since I received the "Coward's" e-mail. I wanted some time to read what was here, and I thought it wise to hang out for a bit to get the hang of the place before posting.

If you don't mind reading along, I will jump right in.

I have studied the Lazaris Material for maybe six or seven years (or since just before the end days of the Compuserve Jach & Lazaris Forum…whenever that was). Before that, my story is similar to many others' here, in that I have sampled quite a few metaphysical influences and meditation techniques, and have found some material that worked well and seemed sound, and other stuff that was just plain annoying & pointless woo-woo crap.

Like some here, I have supplemented metaphysical study with some light physics reading--enjoyable books like the Tao of Physics, The Holographic Universe, String Theory, etc. Like some here, I have studied diet and exercise for years. Like some here, I take an interest in political happenings. Like many here (I am guessing), I see myself as a spiritual being first, physical second. I am thoroughly convinced that I create and co-create realities (intentional plural)-this physical reality the most obvious one-more and more consciously as I expand my awareness & abilities.

I was introduced to Lazaris with the Sacred Journey. I had studied the Seth Material (Just about my favorite metaphysical stuff--still) for about ten years prior, and was looking around for other channeled material (only because the Seth stuff was so fascinating that I thought I might find another respectable channel and would enjoy comparing and experimenting with another perspective) when I found the Lazaris book in a New Age bookstore.

I thought Lazaris material was pretty good. While it didn't hit me with the same force as when I originally read the Seth stuff, I still found it enjoyable (With Seth, at times it seemed like another part of me was reading over the shoulder of my ego [and was receiving the words like a tonic-very disconcerting at first!]) and it gave some new angles on some of the metaphysical concepts that I had experience with to that point. I also noticed that in most cases Lazaris material appeared to affirm at least some of the Seth material, and in some instances appeared to use similar concepts with slightly different terms. (I am currently re-reading Seth Speaks, and it appears to me that, with some talent for extrapolation and flowery metaphoric language, one could make between four and six Lazaris tapes with the first five chapters) J

I didn't jump in to Lazaris techniques right away, as I was skeptical and guarded for a bit. I tend to resist trying techniques or adopting new beliefs & attitudes from metaphysical sources until I feel OK about the source itself. After listening and participating in the Compuserve Forum* for a while (something that made me feel more comfortable, since right there before me, or so I thought, there were those practicing and enjoying success with Lazaris techniques) I decided to I try what I thought of as safe, basic techniques first, to see how they worked for me.

Gradually, after using some of the Lazaris techniques & meditations, I came to trust the material more and more, as it appeared that most of what l tried was safe and worked. This, plus the fact that, in much of the early Lazaris material at least, one is constantly advised that Lazaris "suggests" (not directs); that Lazaris does not want the position of Guru; that Lazaris encourages that one respect their own cadence and self enough to choose and use techniques as they sense is right for them-well, there were a number of factors taken together that put me at ease that I was working with material that was anything offered from a benevolent, powerful entity, and a reliable source of metaphysical knowledge, technique and love. (In retrospect, I don't think really think this proves anything though, as I suppose one can say that within a reasonable range of practice, the efficacy of some techniques is more of a testament to the content&power&desire&beliefs&attitudes&thoughts&love of the practitioner, then the source or structure of techniques themselves)

After reading in your Forum for some days, I am left with many unanswered questions, and plenty to consider. I have not reached a full conclusion yet about the realness of Lazaris (to some this may seem incredible, but it is my personality that when my intuition tells me that there are still some big missing pieces-in spite of the factual data that is before me-I usually hold out before coming to a judgment).

For example, is the whole mapmaker thing really a cult?

In order to have a cult, it appears to me that you need a group of follower-members that are willing to give up their power to a leadership of some sort. Whether the leader encourages this behavior or not, in my mind, is a separate, though important issue. If you don't have people that choose to follow, you can't have a cult. When I think of cults and cult-likes, I think of three common scenarios that I have witnessed:

1. The kind of cult created by "spiritual leaders" that demand subservience and obedience of their followers-and get it-as it appears as if there is never a shortage of those willing to give up their power (along with responsibility and freedom).
2. The kind of cult in which there are leaders that overtly discourage cult behavior, but consciously create an atmosphere that will convert contacts into member-followers so that they end up with a cult following eventually, if not right away.
3. A situation in which a reliable, creditable source of information that has leadership ability or qualities uses those qualities to help others find their own power, but regardless of their efforts to empower others, find themselves, much to their dismay, (of course they could also be apathetic and still qualify) with a cult-like following.

Up to now, I would have put the Lazaris situation in the last bullet. Take the away the events of the last couple of weeks or so (with the various reports and tape discrepancies and all), and further subtract out the protective and at times aggressive responses of certain C:S forum members to certain other forum and x-forum members, and one is left on average with some fairly effective technique and an overall message of empowerment from the Lazaris entity itself.

Given the new information that has come to my attention here, I am forced to acknowledge that the reliability and sincerity of the C:S leadership, and the Lazaris entity as well, are cast in an uncertain, if not dubious light, and though I am not of the cult persuasion myself, I must admit that the evidence that I see here in this forum suggests that C:S management consciously or unconsciously seemed to create/choose conditions that would lend themselves to…well, a cult.

And what about the quality of the material itself?

Some of the material seems fairly amazing. I mean, this stuff isn't Ramtha or Kryon. Has anyone read BOTH 'Interviews' books? If these Interviews are real (most are attributed to a media personality and media organization) then they are perhaps worth some further scrutiny. I can see preparing & pulling off the equivalent of a three-hour+ one-actor play in two acts-including a hypnotism (if that is what some here would venture Jach is doing)-in itself a significant feat-but to give impromptu, consistent answers to questions in on-the-spot interviews…that is an accomplishment of another order. (Unless of course the questions were sent to C:S beforehand).

Also, I don't now if anyone else has noticed, but I sense some real difference between the early tapes and the later ones. There is a freshness and 'zap' to the early work that I feel is sometimes missing in the later tapes, and I don't think that I ever hear Lazaris say, "Excuse us" in any of the early tapes (as one hears often in the later works).

(Can I get a reality check on this? I don't have a large library of tapes-maybe twenty or so-so I would appreciate if someone else could either back up or shed some other light on this supposition of mine. Also, the later tapes sound like the brochures in syntax and flowery language-those are written by Jach…hmmmm…)

At times, I have found myself questioning some things that I have heard in tapes (On the 'Genius' tape, for example, the description of Einstein's success with his papers is contrary to biographical facts, and the care of crystals on the early crystal tape contradicts that some of that given in the later video.), but again, some of the earlier work (I think of the 'Emotional Strengths tape) is clear, and both intuitively and logically sensible.

Is it possible that at one time Lazaris was coming through loud & clear, and something went awry? (A bit of understatement in the question, eh?)

There are other questions and considerations of course, and I haven't really discussed how I feel personally about all this (While not devastated by this-my spirituality is altogether independent of one source of information-I am a bit angry-I think for example, of how I felt sharing some if this forum's content with my wife, whom I introduced to Lazaris), but I have rambled on much too long already for my first post here, and will perhaps cruise some other threads and jump in where I might add value or seek more information.

In the meanwhile, please understand that the main theme of my post is that, while I must acknowledge the testimony of intelligent people here, as well as State's Evidence-both contributing to a much different view of Jach, Lazaris & gang than I formerly had considered-I also feel like I am missing some facts and my not (perhaps ever) know the truth.

Short of the complete truth (as to whether Lazaris is real and everything else), I now know enough to be chagrinned and a bit angry, and to change forever my view of the overall C:S organization. From this point forward I choose to continue my metaphysical study WITHOUT C:S produced, sponsored or distributed material.

Thank you for reading,

Dagaz

P.S.: I just have to say that reading some of the posts in the archives was very interesting, and at times the creativity and sense of humor often made me laugh out loud.

*During certain periods, I did posted with a fair degree of regularity on both Compuserve and C:S Forums.

quote:

---

Lurkers who are reading this:

Ask yourself what is the truth in all of this.

---

You proceed from here to suggest questions AND PROVIDE ANSWERS. This is manipulative, don't you think? It makes it seem as if you don't really want lurkers to question things for themselves, but are mostly interested in enforcing your own conclusions. Since I personally am having trouble getting a handle on the "facts" as you interpret them, I'll take this opportunity to nail down some details and make a few comments.

quote:

---

Did Lazaris lie? Yes.

---

If I understand correctly, Lazaris is accused here of lying about Peny's death twice:

1) Lazaris said Peny left her body willfully and impulsively. (Lazaris stated this through Jach and also on a tape.)

2) Lazaris said the medical examiner had not found a precise cause of death. (Lazaris said this on a tape.)

Do I have these things correct? If so, I don't understand how we can ever know the truth of number 1. No matter how sick Peny was in body, her metaphysical passing could have been quite different, a definitely blissful, one might guess, if she were escaping physical suffering. As to number 2, I'd like to know when that tape was recorded.

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Is Concept:Synergy covering up the truth? Yes

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C:S presented a Lazaris statement about Peny's metaphysical passing. As to revealing physical details, aren't they private?

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Are people getting thrown out of the forum for asking Jach to take responsibility and answer some questions about the truth. Yes

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Why isw Jach responsible for answering his customers' questions about a family tragedy? As to throwing people out of the forum, it might seem heavy-handed. But I can tell you that in my CompuServe days I locked out innumerable people and deleted countless messages. In *every* instance the afflicted person thought I was a bastard, and I *always* thought I had good reason. So I hesitate to judge how C:S enforces topicality or implements their TOS policy.

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These are the facts.

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No, they are good questions coupled with YOUR answers.

Brad