There are lots of theories about what the real deal is about Lazaris, as you all know, I believe "them" to be a concoction of Jach's imagination or insanity.

As I ponder the circumstances which led up to Peny's death, along with the information provided in the police report, I feel more strongly than ever that this Lazaris bit is a concotion of Jach's developed as a way to provide Peny with the fruition of her "wildest dreams".

Imagine being told that you are this incredible powerful being by an irrefutable source, having your every material fantasy fulfilled, being held in awe and admiration by all in your presence, being shielded from any and all hint of criticism and reality checks.

All this is consistant with what we know about Peny's life.

Most of us, not so "priviledged" are forced to deal with some of life's little character building common sense realities. People are allowed to dispute what we say, criticise us, and hold us responsible for ourselves. Most of us have to do our own dishes and laundry. When we get sick, we don't have the Orb living next door telling us that "they" will heal us and protect us.

My theory is that in order to degenerate into the appalling state she did, Peny had to be invested in believing that no matter what she did, she would be bailed out. For the most part, she always was bailed out by Jach and his concocted Orb. If someone said something even vaguely critical of Peny, the comment, it's causes, and the state of consciousness of the hapless person became the topic of the next seminar. Peny always had the Orb to explain away any flaws or weaknesses in Peny. She had Jach's income to provide a paid staff, well trained above all to treat Peny like an infallible being.

Most of us have a stop mechanism that causes us to think twice before reaching for the Haagen Dazs or bag of chocolate chips. We don't always succeed in talking ourselves out of doing it, but we recognize at some point that if we make ourselves sick, we will have to pay the price. I don't believe Peny believed that about herself.

Those of us who have interacted with her know that Peny was completely out of control, emotionally and physically. She did as she pleased to the roar of the admiring crowd. No one was going to give Peny any advice or reality checks, Peny after all, was the wise and enlightened one.
Her personality "quirks" were elevated to the state of Spiritual Adulthood, her viciousness alchemically transformed into her "wicked sense of humor".

Peny died because she did not believe she had to take care of herself like the rest of us. I believe that she was waiting for Lazaris to heal her, and that Jach in his pretense assured her that he would. I think everyone around her invested in that belief as well, and that is why they did not call in a doctor.

Maybe Jach spun Peny's "condition" as due to her working off one of those "mandatory" life lessons mentioned on the "Alliances" tape.

Someday, I believe, one of those sychophants will spill what was going on between Jach and Peny in regards to her illness. It will be interesting to hear.

In the meantime, I believe it is important for ALL of us to really take some time to ponder and consider the dangers and powers of denial and rationalization.

If ever there has been a wake up call to THINK and be honest with ourselves, this is it.

As you say, there are many theories. I certainly see your theory as very plausible.

I think a further caution is in order. Jach will clearly become under more stress and scrutiny. This is the breeding ground for rapidly degenerative behavior wherein more and more destructive cult-like actions arise.

Yes. I remember this as well -- my ears were seated right next to yours as we listened to the "longevity" crap back in the 1980's. There were to be more longevity seminars, "WHEN we were "ready". Good arrogant god!

Jachzaris said -- exactly -- that.

But then Peny went back to red meat -- from vegetarianism (because some idiot "doctor" convinced her that she had to for the B-12 content -- yeah right! I've been 100% vegan for years, lift big weights, and run over five treadmill miles a day -- at age 39 -- WITHOUT EATING RED MEAT! Thank you very much.

Then Lazaris began whistfully waxing about how we all had to get used to the fact that many of our peers were SOON going to start kicking the bucket! WHAT?!!!

Jesus. This ACTUALLY happened on the old Compuserve Con:Sin Forum -- it was pushed on us by Peny. I just remembered this!

God rest her poor, victimized soul.

It is time for justice people.

Steve

You wrote,

"Peny died because she did not believe she had to take care of herself like the rest of us. I believe that she was waiting for Lazaris to heal her, and that Jach in his pretense assured her that he would. I think everyone around her invested in that belief as well, and that is why they did not call in a doctor."

Your entire take on Penny in this post I feel is so insightful and needs to be taken very seriously.

As a parent of a critically ill child, I followed the spiritual advice of Lazaris for a period of time and now realize that I not only drove myself to the point of a mental collapse, I also put my child in the way of real danger. I honestly believed that Lazaris could help my son and there were times where I resisted medical treatment because I felt there was "another, more elegant way." I credit the higher aspect of myself and the higher aspect of my son for pulling me out of this warped space. Also the reality of having a child that could die very quickly if you make the wrong move readjusts your perspective on reality. If I had fully believed what Lazaris claims…"You create your own reality and you can recreated it by doing steps 1-7, etc.", there is a good chance that my son would not be with us right now.

This is very scary shit for me. I challenge any 'Friend of Lazaris' who would accuse me of being in negative ego or martyr for criticizing Lazaris and Jach, to get a fucking reality check.

Lynn

P.S. Note to Steve,

My son does 30 mins of cardio a day. One of the reasons why he is doing as well as he is.

What a touching post!

Thank Goddess the higher aspects of yourself and your son intervened.

Yeah, what ever did happen to the longevity work? I guess when Peny's health began to fail it seemed expedient to put that work on the back burner.

I think there was a time when Peny was interested and working on her health, at least to the extent of investing in the belief that she could keep herself alive through the use of supplements and groovy machinery. (no discipline or hard work for our Pampered Penny) When it became clear that those tactics weren't panning out so well, I guess Jach decided it would be wiser to move into less tangible arenas, like the Arthurian Legends and the Crystal BS. Good money, no way to prove or disprove that crapola.

Lynn, your story is probably the most significant one told here. This is very clear evidence of how dangerous that material can be. Hell, how dangerous it IS.
My 4 years in the Forum showed me proof of that,as did my own experience in applying the L techniques to vital aspects of my life.

Anyone who is relying on those demonstrably flawed techniques does so at their peril.

I did have a mail recently from someone who per usual, can't say enough bad stuff about Jach, Peny, and Con:Sin, but insists that the techniques work, because he's turned around a lot in his life.

Well, goddamnit, don't people who don't have jobs get jobs, or people who are in bad relationships leave and find someone new? Don't people leave bad situations and find better ones? Is this what we are to accept as Magic? If it is, we really got the short end, because it would appear that millions of people have manifested the same and better Magic without spending all that time and money in the process.

Given the level of the "magical miracle" creation the materials yield (see Peny North)
it seems that the only real tangible left is the great feeling of love people get from "Lazaris". That's what had me hoodwinked. It felt so real.

But hell, you don't have to engage in a psychological research problem to notice that countless people are investing in being loved by strangers across the internet. It's getting to be old news that it's easy to completely trick, manipulate, and control someone just with those 3 little words we all love to hear.

But, you know, I have friends who are "in love" over the internet, and there ain't no stopping them. They've never spoken to or seen the object of their passion, but don't even try to suggest that there's something very odd about all that. They are in love, the person they love is WONDERFUL!!! end of story.

Really, how different is it to believe that we are being loved by some unseen entity?

In the end, it's all just seedy and sad IMO, but as is being pointed out here, it can be very very dangerous, not only to ourselves, but to those we love and who depend on us.

Funny, isn't it, the risks people are willing to take just for the "illusion" of being loved, rather than for the real thing?

As someone very wisely pointed out here, love is interactive, tangible, communicative, give and take. Given that it is impossible to have anything other than the perception of that with the Orb, I would suggest that whatever it is that people are feeling, regardless of how intense it feels, it isn't love. It's something else.

Just one last Peny thing, she was fond of drinking "BLUE-SKY" Vodka.....how specialll

anyway, I know I'm evil-but the sense of irony when reading that...

it gave me a sick sensing that she was grasping out in the end at what is strickly marketing, like your hard liquor when you are already OVER-MEDICATED makes a DIFFERENCE..

((well, I know sometimes the sky MAY seem a bit bluer when your blitzed ))

it makes me realize so much stoooopid stuff that jachasszzaris would say: like about songs you'd hear on the radio, being your own manifestations..**that's why you'd think the songs were being played JUST when you NEEDED to hear them.....
new-augge bullshit....

I take my merchandise based upon it's quality NOW,**thank youuu veery much!!! not based on some sorry-ass SAD SAD sicko version of a metaphysical--packaging/marketing bullshit...

I guess Peny knew deep down she wuusn't gunna live much longer, and this was part of what would help her into the great BLUE- BEYOND...

Sorry for anyone who is offended, I just had to get that offa my chest.!

Hi Audrey,
Blue Sky Vodka and CO2 to mitigate pain, how elegant.
I would not let a dog suffer like that.
IMO
Oh yes, I forgot the codine.

[This message has been edited by IMO (edited 10-15-2001).]

quote:

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I would not let a dog suffer like that.

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This is the house that Jach and Peny built.

Over a year ago I wrote to Jach and asked him how he sleeps at night. At that time I had not even a clue how much more I would come to know about him and his "creations".

Now I want to know how he manages to inhale and exhale.

Katie you wrote,

"Lynn, your story is probably the most significant one told here."

IMO you wrote,

"This is scary as hell."

You wrote: Are there others out there who were (or still are) dealing with a life threatening circumstance that is being influenced by Lazaris?

I'm sure there are many. I hope you have inspired them to share their stories which are so painful. I most likely would have relied on the Lazaris voodoo if a situation had presented itself.

How many ex-CS employees have died prematurely?

I see the two biggest vulnerabilities that would be effective in a legal action to be:

1) Health advice
2) Financial transactions

I urge people to continue to share. If privacy is a concern, please email me at "DoubleCheckCS@comcast.net" and/or Katie at "Katie@cosmicfool.com".

Craig

I urge people to share here. E-mail is nice, but posting is better.

I don't mind hearing from people, but I don't have any special insights to offer. Collectively there is a lot of wisdom and love here.

Your story is very poignant and touching, and given the fact that we now know that P. herself was suffering under those types of false and ultimately deadly ideas.

I am so happy for you that you got out soon enough to save your boy.!!!

And you are so right about the fact that others may very wll be suffering under that oppression...We know it's still alive and well "south of the mason dixon line"
What a group of elegant trailer-trash they turn out to be.

That others may not have the wisdom and wherewithal that you did...that's a scary thought.

We can only hope those poor souls find either this site, or a person in their life who will pull them out of the quick-sand.!