For ease of reading, I have typed in the pertinent sections from the Orange County Sheriff's reports on Peny's and Michaell's deaths. The complete scanned images of the reports can be found at the provided links.

*** PENY ***

The complete scanned images of the report can be found at: http://www.cosmicfool.com/lazaris/peny

On 05/09/2001, at 0335 hours, I responded to 10216 Penny Lane Drive in reference to a death investigation. Upon my arrival, I met with Lt. David Provau with Orange County Fire and Rescue #36 who stated that they received the call in reference to a woman with no vitals at 0303 hours this date. Provau stated they arrived at the front gate to the compound at 0312 hours and were met by Michaell North who said "No hurry. I'll go open up the gate for you", Provau stated.they entered the house and were led to the first floor master bathroom where the patient, Penny North, was sitting in a reclining wheel chair. Provau said she was unresponsive and she was an ashen color. He stated that his crew checked for signs of life but could not find any. At 0316 they confirmed death with electronic confirmation for "asystole". Provau stated that Michaell North told them he heard his wife "wheezing" at 0200 and called for another resident of the house to assist with CPR. Provau said North told them he did not call 911 immediately because his wife did not like doctors or hospitals and did not want to live in this world. Provau stated that North also advised his wife did not have any other known medical problems other than leg pains brought on by Cellulitis. North also told Provau that his wife was taking Codeine for the pain and did not have any allergies to medications.

Provau stated that the bathroom was very cluttered and there was a medium size bottle of carbon dioxide near Mrs. North. Provau advised there was not indication that CPR had been performed on Mrs. North and Michaell North was very calm and solemn. Provau stated no one else was in the bathroom when they arrived and Michaell North refused to leave his wife's side.

When I entered the bathroom, North was sitting beside his wife and holding her hand. His eyes were teary and he appeared to be very calm. I asked if anyone else had tried to help do CPR on his wife and he said Jennifer tried. He advised that Jennifer was in the master bedroom with other friends who had come to help. I left North at this time to talk to the other witnesses.

In the master bedroom, I met with Jennifer Page who stated she has been friends with the North's for about 20 years and lives in the house with them. She also advised that she is their assistant in business and housekeeper. Page stated she was called by Michaell North to come to the master bathroom because Peny wasn't breathing. She said North was very excited and talking very fast. Page said they performed CPR for about half an hour while she was sitting reclined in the wheel chair. Page said she could hear "gurgling in Peny's throat and chest and twice had fluids come out of her mouth. At this time they called another friend, Barbara Brannon, who lives in the compound, to assist with CPR. Page said she knew they would need help in dropping the back of the wheel chair down so they could perform CPR better on the floor. Page said Penny spit fluids twice more but was not conscious and still had no signs of breathing.

Page stated that she did not call 911 because Peny told her before that if anything happened, she did not want to end up in a hospital as a vegetable. Page said Peny was afraid of hospitals. Page also advised that she did not know what time she was called by North or what time they stopped CPR but it was before the fire department arrived. She said she was not aware of any other medical problems beside her legs and did not know if Peny had a doctor.

I then spoke to Barbara Brannon who stated she lives in the compound and was called a about 0230 hours to assist with lowering Penyy's wheel chair so Jennifer and Michaell could perform CPR. Brannon said that by the time she arrived, Peny was gone.

Michaell North was able to give me a statement after Homicide Detective Jeff Tramonte and Medical Examiner Jack Cuccia responded. North stated his wife Peny had been having bad pain in her legs for the past few days and was taking 8MG of Codeine every one and a half hours. He stated she started becoming weaker and her speech was slurred. North stated he would hand her the pills and she would put them in her mouth.

North stated his wife was all right at about midnight when he went to sleep on the air mattress he had placed on the bathroom floor. At some time between 0100 and 0200 hours this night, he woke up to give Peny her medicine and found that she was not breathing. North stated he called Jennifer Page and they performed CPR. He said they called 911 shortly after the realized that they could not revive his wife.

The Norht's house is a large two story house with a concrete wall around it and several other homes on the property. The master bedroom and bathroom were filled with numerous medical devices and equipment including a Cardiassist machine, boxes of 13 boxes of Medifil II, a tank of Carbon dioxide, and several Oxygen tanks. There were books and miscellaneous items of a metaphysical nature. There was also a large box addressed to a Dr. Raymond Peat at this address and to the care of Jennifer Page.

From the Narrative section:

...

Witness Page told them she was a nurse and Witness Provau felt she should have known to put the victim on a hard flat surface. Corporal Grigsby also said there was a cylinder of carbon dioxide near the victim with a hose running from the cylinder, but not connected to anything on the other end. Corporal Grigsby further advised Witness North indicated he did not believe in doctors or hospitals and had been treating the victim for ailments at home.

....

As for the bottle of carbon dioxide, Witness North said that was used to cool the victim's legs because of pain from what he described as poor circulation. The medical equipment and herbal supplements were there because Witness North and the victim did not believe in doctors or hospitals. He said the victim had been ill for the past several months and never sought medical assistance. Witness North felt that any problems they encountered could be treated by other means through research and consulting others. He said the victim was taking codeine for pain, which he was able to obtain from Canada without a prescription. He said she was taking 8 mg every hour and a half for the past three to four days. Witness North said for two weeks prior to the codeine, the victim was drinking Blue Sky Vodka also to relieve the pain in her legs.

...

Dr. Sara Irrgang concluded her studies in this case and found the causes of death to be; "Respiratory depression", "Multiple drug overdose" and "Toxic levels of codeine and salicylates." She also found the victim to be suffering from organic diseases such as; "Infected stasis dermatitis," "Morbid obesity" and "Arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease." Dr. Irrgang ruled the manner of death as an "Accident".

I contacted Dr. Irragang in reference to her findings regarding the toxicology report. She advised the victim had a toxic level of codeine and toxic level of aspirin in her system. She said the victim was not able to metabolize the drugs fast enough due to her poor health condition; There she was overmedicating. Dr. Irrgang believed the 8-mg every hour and a half was more than what would normally be prescribed to a healthy person.

*** MICHAELL ***

The complete scanned images of the report can be found at: http://www.cosmicfool.com/lazaris/michaell

Victim was laying back in a pool chair inside a screened patio on the south side of the residence. There was a clear plastic bag taped over his head and a 10lb. cylinder of nitrous oxide sitting on his right side with a flexible metal line leading from the cylinder to under the plastic bag.

On the victim's left side was another pool chair with a legal pad on the seat with a hand written note stating:

[[[
To whom it may concern, my dearest Peny died tonight, there is no way those words can convey my loss. Long ago I decided if this were to happen I would take my life as soon as possible.

So this letter is to let you know I will soon leave this physical plane to be once again with my beloved Peny.

No one knows of my plans, so no one can be prosecuted for helping me (Hey it's my life I'll do with it what I choose).

All I can say is what a fortunate man I was to know her all these years.

No regrets
Michaell North
]]]

Jennifer Page (reporter) stated that she lives and works in the same house and last night the victim's wife died at home. She also stated that they had always said that if one of them died, the other would commit suicide.

Jennifer saw the victim leave the residence around noon today in his Rolls Royce, she never saw him return, but at approx. 1645 hrs she noticed the car was in the driveway and when she went to see if he needed anything, she discovered him in the chair on the patio and called "911".

From the Narrative section:

....
During the scene investigation it was noted that the victim was found in a reclining position on a chaise lounge on the deck next to the swimming pool. The deck was just outside of the victim's bedroom. A plastic bag was over his head and a hose ran from the bag to a small cylinder next to the lounger. The victim's right hand was on the valve of the cylinder. The valve on the cylinder was in the closed position. A label on the cylinder indicated the content to be nitrous oxide. Located next to the victim in a chair was a handwritten note signed by the victim. Between the victim's legs was a roll of duct tape, which a piece was used to create a seal of the plastic bag. After searching the victim's backpack, which was located nearby, a receipt was found from a Lil Champ dated May 9, 2001 at 10:51 A.M. Also a receipt was found from American Motor Sports dated May 9, 2001. This second receipt was for the purchase of an aluminum cylinder containing 10 pounds of nitrous oxide, along with a hose and nut.

....

Witness Jach Pursel provided background information about the victim saying the victim had changed his name several years ago and was known as John Michael Prestini. He said the victim's parents and brother were somewhere in the western part of the United States. Witness Pursel could not provide anything additional since the victim had cut all contact with his family several years ago. With the knowledge of the victim's birth name, I was able to locate his mother and daughter and informed them of his death. Both acknowledged not having any recent contact with the victim.

....

Dr. Shashi Gore of the District Nine Medical Examiner's Office conducted an autopsy on the victim to determine the cause and manner of death. After the examination and based on circumstances at the scene, Dr. Gore determined the cause of death to be from "Nitrous oxide poisoning" and the manner of death was a "Suicide".

At a later date, I took the cylinder of nitrous oxide to American Motor Sports located at 4130 North Orange Blossom Trail. I spoke to Tim Dickerson, salesperson, who recalled the victim coming in to make the purchase. He said the victim told him he was making the purchase for a friend. Mr. Dickerson said he was able to recall the victim because he drove up in a very old Rolls Royce, which they talked about for several minutes. Mr. Dickerson was asked to weigh the aluminum bottle in an effort to determine how much of the gas was missing. He determined with a digital scale that just under one pound of gas was still present. The bottle had been originally filled with ten pounds of nitrous oxide.

....

I met with Witness Pursel and Witness Page at the victim's residence to discuss events surrounding the victim's death. The following is s synopsis of what they told me:

Witness Pursel was asked about having any prior knowledge of the victim's desire to commit suicide upon his wife's death. He said the victim and his wife had said years ago that if one died the other would take their life in order to be with them. Witness Pursel was asked why he did not tell me about this pact between the victim and his wife. He said even though the victim had made statements like that in the past, it had not been recent and he did not believe the victim. Witness Pursel said the victim made no statements about suicide the day of his wife's death, only that he wanted to be alone.

Witness Page also said she was aware of the agreement between the victim and his wife, and as with Witness Pursel, she did not believe the victim would do it.

I'm sure you all found these reports to be very disturbing, especially for those who knew Peny personally.

It is also disturbing because in my opinion it is hard to imagine a scenario in which Lazaris could be shown to have lied so blatantly. I'm a little bleary eyed from typing in the reports, so I'll detail later how the facts in this report directly contradict the public statements Lazaris made at the "Healing the Broken Alliance" evening/tape.

Thank you so much, what a labor of love.

This is just sickening.

The last time I spoke to Michaell by phone @ 1990, he told me all about the wonders of breathing pure ozone from a generator / hose setup he had rigged. Christ.

Carbon dioxide is also known for it's suicide-enabling properties -- in tank form. Many of those in the "conscious death" community -- hold the opinion that CO2 is a better / more comfortable death than nitrous oxide.

For "cooling Peny's skin"? Or.. .

Michaell used auto parts grade Nitrous Oxide, apparently. That is very harmful for the body -- if one survives the suicide attempt. It has lubricating oil mixed in to protect car engines when set up for high performance injection from tank to engine air intake.

Much appreciation for your efforts, I know you have put in a lot of time on this as well. Thank you very much!

Allow me to join the others in thanking you for your valient efforts. Great Job!

Thanks for your kind words. You're quite welcome

It's nice to see you. Funny, I was reading through some old threads yesterday and came across your name and wondered where ya got to.

Yeah, this is the crap, isn't it?

Thanks for the nice words.

Thanks for the kind words. And ditto Susan's comments to Katie, Ted and the other posters.

By the way, I give anyone rights to email a copy of any posts that I authored. Naturally, I would only send this to people you know lest it be considered SPAM (with the concurrent risk of having your email account being revoked).

It is clear from Katie's post in the "why are we interested" thread (where she gives her notes from the Healing the Broken Alliances tape) about the lies Lazaris told in reference to Peny.

Lazaris also lied on the tape about Michaell. Lazaris said that Michaell had a sense of integrity and commitment that was impeccable and unparalleled. However, in the police report, Jach told the detective that Michaell had a brother and parents but that Michaell cut all contact with his family several years ago. If you read the report carefully, you will see that Jach did not provide the detectives with information about Michael's ex-wife or ex-daughter. The detective had to find this out through other means . How can Lazaris claim Michaell to have such an unparalleled level of commitment? As far as integrity, what about the MLM Tradevest schemes?

Cheers, Craig

quote:

---

If you read the report carefully, you will see that Jach did not provide the detectives with information about Michael's ex-wife or ex-daughter.

---

I noticed that Jach omitted the daughter immediately. Not mentioning the ex-wife is one thing, but of course there is no such thing as an ex-offspring.

We have previously discussed on this board how "Lazaris" mixes in words like "unparalleled" (amazing, incredible, etc.) with everything associated with "them" and Peny. Describing Michaell that way is par for the course.

Jade

The heart disease caused the leg problems (like painful swelling, rash, possibly even skin ulcers) Whatever the condition, it was "infected," and the infection probably could have been treated with anibiotics.

When the heart isn't functioning properly, as with congestive heart failure, fluids accumulate in the legs (also abdomen). The Cardiassist machine is used to force blood from legs and buttocks back up to heart.

The Medifil II are special bandage wraps, probably used to help prevent the accumulation of more fluid, treat ruptures and to try to avoid wounds during movement.

Another symptom of congestive heart failure disease is extreme shortness of breath.
The report on Peny says she had oxygen tanks in the bedroom -- consistent with treating this particular heart disease.

Anyway, my point is to emphasize that Peny clearly had severe cardiovascular disease, and that those who cared for her certainly knew it. This cannot be dismisssed in favor of just leg problems.

Brought this to your attention because I'm sure many lurkers will be checking out both boards.

You wrote:

"Thank you so much, what a labor of love."

God, yes--thank you, Craig, for investing your time and effort in chasing this police report down, and making it available here.

(And once again thank you, K & T, for pursuing the corruption at the heart of Con Sin so diligently; this website has been slapped around on occasion but the truth will--and did--out.:)

flo

You wrote:

"As I understand it she had congestive heart failure, though the report calls it "Arterioselerotic cardiovascular disease."

I thought it might be something akin to arteriosclerosis...? I found this description of the medical use of the CardiAssist which suggests perhaps there might have been some kind of arterial hardening at work;

"It also may enhance the development of collateral mirovasculature to blocked arteries."
http://www.cardiosystems.net/physiology.shtml

Whatever the specific heart disease at work, if anyone doubts the seriousness of Peny's heart condition they should know that the
CardiAssist treatment includes electrocardiogram monitoring (the picture at this site says it all.)

http://www.cardiomedics.com/index.cfm

I knew the woman was ill but the image of her confined to a wheelchair, oxygen tanks and CardiAssist machine nearby, bovine collagen bandages on her oozing legs, drinking vodka and popping codeine to kill the pain is much worse than I'd thought--this is the drug bleary agony of a hard, hard death, better suited to a palliative care unit than a goddamn bathroom.

When I strip it all down, I come up with this; the final months of Penny North's life were reduced to looking around the room that Lazarus built and finding:

A wheelchair
Oxygen tanks
Carbon dioxide tank
CardiAssist machine
Medifil bandages
Pain killers
Multiple medical devices.

The final days of Peny North's life, watched over by her husband and friends, were spent:

Drinking vodka to kill the pain
Then popping pills to kill the pain
Using carbon dioxide to kill the pain
Bandaging her legs to kill the pain
Sleeping in a wheelchair to avoid the pain of moving.
Trying to breathe.

And her last hours on earth were marked by:

Rapid weakening
Slurred speech
Drug overdosing
Regurgitation of fluid
Respiratory failure
Botched CPR
A 911 call made too late to help.

Is *this* the gorgeous moment waiting for all friends of Lazarus, just before you meet on the other side of the bridge of belief? Is this what it all comes down to? Being flipped back in a wheelchair, your body spewing liquid, your spirit drugged into senselessness? That's the golden apple being offered by Concept Synergy?

She died worse than a stray dog--at least shelters with a kill policy don't torture the animal before putting it down.

flo

quote:

---

As I understand it she had congestive heart failure, though the report calls it "Arterioselerotic cardiovascular disease."

---

I think they spelled the disease wrong in the reports, because I can't find any info doing a search as spelled. Could it be "arteriosclerotic, hardening and narrowing of the arteries?

quote:

---

The heart disease caused the leg problems (like painful swelling, rash, possibly even skin ulcers) Whatever the condition, it was "infected," and the infection probably could have been treated with anibiotics.

---

I read that this infection can't be treated with topical antibiotics because they cause further inflammation. She probably could have taken oral antibiotics.

quote:

---

Anyway, my point is to emphasize that Peny clearly had severe cardiovascular disease, and that those who cared for her certainly knew it. This cannot be dismisssed in favor of just leg problems.

---

It's incredible Jade, but they kept saying to the cops that there was nothing wrong with her other than leg pain. Part of me wonders if they actually believed that themselves. People use the Cardiassist machine as a longevity device also, I found a page for a Florida chelation clinic that sells them for that purpose.

Whatever was going on here, it points to the ultimate consequences of denial and rationalization. If Peny and Michaell spent all those years convincing themselves that Jach was really channeling this entity who had crowned Peny Queen of the Universe, I can see the appeal of holding to that belief regardless of any evidence to the contrary. I believe that this is exactly what was going on between the three of them all those years. How could Peny let go of that mythology, it would condemn her to life and accountablity as a mortal. On the other hand, it might also have saved her life.

It isn't impossible for me to imagine that they were also all in complete denial of the extent of Peny's illness. I was told that Jach told one of the detectives that they all believed Peny was getting better. So, does that mean that Jach was in total denial and from that state of belief was providing the same info from his "Orb" self, hence the intense neglect?

Ya gotta wonder!

Glaringly missing from the police reports is one Jach Purr-Sell. We know damned well that he was involved in that death dance, but somehow managed to keep himself out of the report. Does that indicate that he took off when the cops arrived?

I'll tell you, this is as sickening and shocking a story as anything I've ever heard about.

quote:

---

Whatever the specific heart disease at work, if anyone doubts the seriousness of Peny's heart condition they should know that the
CardiAssist treatment includes electrocardiogram monitoring (the picture at this site says it all.)

---

I saw that too, and wasn't sure if it was the same Cardiassist. If her heart was being monitored, who was doing the monitoring I wonder?

quote:

---

Is *this* the gorgeous moment waiting for all friends of Lazarus, just before you meet on the other side of the bridge of belief? Is this what it all comes down to? Being flipped back in a wheelchair, your body spewing liquid, your spirit drugged into senselessness? That's the golden apple being offered by Concept Synergy?

She died worse than a stray dog--at least shelters with a kill policy don't torture the animal before putting it down.

---

Evidently this is just the reality we created for ourselves, flo. For the true believer none of this ever happened. Peny just impulsively decided to float off in a delirium of bliss. See the difference between you and me and someone who is not in negative ego?

I think we should all get out our tapes today and start programming that we get back into our Adult. No one should have to suffer such disturbing images.

Taking Jach's lead, I think we should all immediately head for our Safe and Magical place where none of this imagery exists. It's so much nicer there!

Relax..relax...relax...

Katie

It occurred to me that some in denial might question the authenticity of the scanned reports on the website. A reminder to those new to this site is that the information is publicly available from Orlando County. I give instructions in how to obtain them in the following thread (one post deals with the investigative report and the other with the coroner's full report [which is not available yet]):

http://www.cosmicfool.com/discussion/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000331.html

By the way, on Friday I talked to the person who sends out the investigative reports and she commented how much attention this matter was generating.

I took a very close look at the copy I received, and I'm 99% sure now that arteriosclerotic was spelled correctly. Unfortunately, this page was accidently omitted from the copy so I had to convince the Orlando folks to fax me a copy, which resulted in less than clear copy. I have changed the original post.

BTW, if anyone still feels a need to get the report, please DO NOT try to get the Orlando folks to send you a fax. They won't. They made an exception for me since it was their mistake.

You said: It isn't impossible for me to imagine that they were also all in complete denial of the extent of Peny's illness. I was told that Jach told one of the detectives that they all believed Peny was getting better. So, does that mean that Jach was in total denial and from that state of belief was providing the same info from his "Orb" self, hence the intense neglect?

While I admit to the possibility, I strongly suspect that they knew. We know Jach misled the police on many issues. When asked by detectives, he said they made their fortune primarily by day trading and some other innocuous activity. He never mentioned Lazaris which could have been billed as "personal growth seminars". I have to suspect that this omission was done to avoid publicity.

Jach never mentioned that Michaell had a daughter or was divorced. He only mentioned that Michaell had a brother and parents whom he cut off contact with. IMO he omitted this fact for one reason: $$$. I'm sure Jach didn't want the daughter to get a piece of the inheritance pie.

Jach said he thought Peny was getting better. Bullshit! I don't care how much denial your in, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that when someone's speech is sluring and they have to self-medicate with codeine and aspirin every hour and a half, they ain't getting better. If she was getting better, then what was it like before? Why would Jach lie? CYA ("cover your ass" for non-American readers).

Jach didn't tell the detective that he wasn't aware that Michaell was going to commit suicide. Further, Michaell's note suspiciously states that no one else knew of his plans. Why the hell would he waste time in his moment of grief to say that? Sounds like they had all discussed the problem. If you had a friend who said he would commit suicide if his wife died (even if you didn't believe him), wouldn't you do everything in your power to be their for your friend, even if the friend wanted to be alone?

I have to believe Jach was there before the police arrived. It is inconceivable to me that they would call only on a female living in a separate building to help with getting Peny off the wheelchair. It is inconceivable that Michaell would also not call on Jach for both an emergency Lazaris consultation and since Jach was still so in love with Peny. Motivation for covering this up? Again, CYA.

Finally, I see no mention in the reports about Jach being Peny's ex-husband. Wouldn't this be something of extreme importance in a forensic investigation involving the death of a wife and his husband? Again, CYA.

Deceipt, deceipt, and then some more deceipt. All in the name of protecting corporate assets.

Craig

Craig you wrote,

"Finally, I see no mention in the reports about Jach being Peny's ex-husband. Wouldn't this be something of extreme importance in a forensic investigation involving the death of a wife and his husband? Again, CYA."

Jach and Lazaris always talked about Michael like he was the high priest, such integrity and character. Interesting that Jach and Jennifer both said they knew about the suicide pact, but didn't believe the victim would do it... hmmmm.

And you know Jach was kept out of the investigators way when P died. Yes indeed so much points to protection and the greed that motivates it, it makes me sick.

Re "arterioselerotic"; I too found no listing for the condition (not even in Gray's online medical dictionary) but yahoo led me to pages dealing with family trees, a couple of which listed relatives whose cause of death was marked as "arterioselerotic" in nature.

One passage read as follows:

"Due to or of a consequence: Arterioselerotic Heart Disease, interval between onset and death: 20 Yrs."

Interesting that it seems--at least from the last line above--to be a long term progressive disease.

The deaths listed were from the early half of the century, so perhaps it was a term more commonly used over fifty years ago?

You wrote:

"I think we should all get out our tapes today and start programming that we get back into our Adult."

Oh, absolutely; gonna bust that ego and land in my adult (right after I get in touch with my inner Quincy, that is.:)

flo
--gentlemen, you are now entering the fascinating world of forensic metaphysics..

It says, "When it affects the coronary arteries it is the underlying cause of most heart attacks and a common cause of congestive heart failure and arrythmias."

The corner called it atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, in other words the artherosclerosis had caused heart disease.

Beside swelling the legs and abdomen, fluid collects in the lungs of advanced congestive heart failure patients.

I'll be interested to see the complete coroner's report when its available. Having experienced a close relative's congestive heart failure disease, the scene (oxygen tanks. Medifil bandages, wheelchair) and the symptoms are familiar, except that in this case the person had medical assistance and died at home in her bed (at age 86), with the two people closest to her by her side.

Jade

quote:

---

Goddess, now that you mention it, wouldn't this alone be enough of a reason for the police to investigate Jach and his jointly operated business?! Katie, this maybe a dumb question, but are the police aware that Peny is Jach's X?

---

Hmmm. Jach/Lazaris just slept through Peny's last miserable moments? Inspite of Jach's adoring love, and "Lazaris" -- wouldn't one think that the all knowing, ever available wise one would have nudged Jach's body right out of bed to rush to the scene. (Or at least suggested lowering the frequency of her ingestion of the codeine and aspirin before she reached toxic levels?) Or that Michael would have asked for Jach's physical help AND "Lazaris's" metaphysical help.

Yes, I wonder too. I think Peny and Michaell had plenty of their own money, didn't need Jach's (as Katie suggested). Money from Con:Sin and Isis Rising, publishing company money for tapes, books calendars, cards. And as representatives of Gilbert Williams and other artists, and who knows what else. Must be time to follow the money. Look at where it all ended up. Yeah, what daughter.

You Wrote,

"Hmmm. Jach/Lazaris just slept through Peny's last miserable moments? Inspite of Jach's adoring love, and "Lazaris" -- wouldn't one think that the all knowing, ever available wise one would have nudged Jach's body right out of bed to rush to the scene. (Or at least suggested lowering the frequency of her ingestion of the codeine and aspirin before she reached toxic levels?) Or that Michael would have asked for Jach's physical help AND "Lazaris's" metaphysical help."

Up until this time I still held a place in my mind for the possibility that Lazaris is real, just not who they say they are. But this info and the text from the Healing Broken Alliances tape has nailed the final nail in the coffin.

What an ugly mess...Such bullshit.

My dictionary defines atherosclerosis as "a form of arteriosclerosis...". I'm sure will get far more details than most will care for when the coroner's report is available.

Yuch!

This all is quite a read.!! Thank you very much **Craig** for putting in all the time, and including all the pertinent points!!It is much appreciated....

All these things that happened what seems like sooo long ago all came screaming back to me when reading this.

I'd come to a place of disconnect with the reality and the mind set of all that new-age crap they spewed,

and now I remember...always every single DAY striving for "AN ELEGANT" (whatever the challenge of the moment was for me), and imagining that those truly elevated individuals @ con-sin who we so much better at all this reality creation than myself....how they would elegantly handle my challenges....

It makes me think to my horror --what if I'd spent the next 2- 3- 4- decades wrapped up and mind washed with their bullshit.,..

Then PERHAPS I would have died in a similar state of HELL... who knows!!! sickening...

BUT, I really do feel deeply that all of us here take this report to heart, and realize the AMAZING power of DENIAL especially when we can surround ourselves with others willing to regurgitate our bullshit back to us!!!

It really gives me pause when I think about rich Diva-brats, and movie stars etc...I will be a bit more empathetic in the future to their "challenges"

On point I feel is very important I'd like to make: we should all celebrate in the realization that by leaving that vile group of monsters was the BEST, MOST ELEGANT..**REALITY*** creation we have created.!!!!

So..even though I am saddened for Peny, and all involved and sickened for them WE still deserve- pats on the back all around, for we the down-to-earth Magicians !!!!

thx

quote:

---

My dictionary defines atherosclerosis as "a form of arteriosclerosis...". I'm sure will get far more details than most will care for when the coroner's report is available.

---

My dictionary says that atherosclerosis is, "an arteriosclerosis characterized by atheromatous deposits in and fibrosis of the inner layer of the arteries."

The word "atherosclerotic" is an adjective describing the type of cardiovascular disease. It's clear that Peny had heart disease.

We'll all be better informed when the complete report comes out.

Jade

Craig and I both posted the content of Lazaris' explanation about Peny's death provided on the "Healing Alliances" tape.

Craig's post can be found in the Death, Lies, and Red Tape thread at:

http://www.cosmicfool.com/discussion/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000331.html

I can't remember in which thread I posted mine, but it was in the past several days.

I guess we should post about this along with the links to the police reports on the Friend or Fraud site.

Many of us have discovered endless BS and inconsistancies within the L material, but this is the most glaring. It's not an inconsistancy, it's a flat out lie told by the Orb.

Thanks for clarifying, on the LL site, that much more than "leg problems" is involved.

quote:

---

Katie, this maybe a dumb question, but are the police aware that Peny is Jach's X? Are the police willing to take Jach and the Gang's word on that fact that Peny did not want help? What if one of them overdosed her? etc. So many questions and yet the investigation is closed.

---

No dumb questions Lynn, only dumb answers!

Yes the police are aware that Jach is Peny's ex. I suppose they are willing to take it on trust that Peny didn't want outside help.
She was probably in such bad shape that they didn't bother to wonder too much if anyone helped her along. On the other hand, the detective told me that he was dead shocked when he saw the coroner's report. Possibly if he had some indication that the cause was an overdose, the investigation might have taken another path. They didn't find any heavy duty drugs, and it's hard for anyone to imagine an overdose of Tylenol with codeine and aspirin. Hard also to imagine that anyone would try to kill someone that way.

Probably the grief and shock was apparent enough that the cops didn't suspect foul play.

Too bad they didn't know at the time what a joyful and impulsive decision Peny had made, they might have become converts.

I guess it was a tad big difficult for them to see through all the medical equipment, debris, beds in bathrooms, and the infected scabs on her swollen and discolored legs. Their negative egos no doubt tripped them up.