quote:

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They didn't find any heavy duty
drugs, and it's hard for anyone to imagine an overdose of Tylenol with codeine and aspirin.

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I can understand the mind set of investigators given the scene they encountered. But during the time I was a crisis counsellor, we were advised that lethal aspirin overdose is not uncommon. If an individual takes a lot at once in a suicide attempt, or a large quantity over a few days, it is just as serious as hard core prescription drugs. And codeine - that's some heavy stuff.

Jade

I'll voice it again -- I think Jach killed Peny *with a calculated, gradual overdosing* when she became *too much* of a public behavioral liability -- to his constant, LUCRATIVE Jachzarian claim (-- Unretractable Public Record --) of her virtual incarnate divinity.

"YeaUS, dear one -- no more than 15 minutes of *spiritually hazardous* aerobic exercise per day, yeeeeeeeeesssssssnake: Hourly Double Tetrahedon Techniques, asprin, codeine and the unique purity of Blue Sky TM Vodka will light your poignant, sacred, mapmaker's pathway -- to a truly INSPIRATIONAL and miraculous hea-UH-ling..... ."

Steve

You wrote,

"Possibly if he had some indication that the cause was an overdose, the investigation might have taken another path."

Knowing this information now, would the police think to reopen the case? Also knowing there is millions of $ on the line. Public liability (As Steve pointed out), money, control of where the business is heading...are these not grounds for a motive?

The question still comes back to where was Jach during her last moments? Does the police know that Jach/Lazaris professes to see future events, dispense medical knowledge and be there at all times, ready for us to reach out to them? Would they understand how unusual it is that Jach/Lazaris was not there sounding the alarm that something really big was happening? Or was Lazaris so selfish that he wanted his beloved Peny all to himself and that's why he just didn't say anything at the time? OR does Lazaris simply not exist and Jach would have had no way of knowing what was happening or helping and therefore he is a fraud?

No matter how you slice it...it would make sense to me that the investigation was reopened.

You all make very good points.!!! jeeze I wish we were not all the way across the contintent cuz we could go meet with this investigator team, and relly get things going..

WOW, can you imagine the ruckus we could raise.....

The idea that Jachass killed P. is not far-fetched, she was a "drag" huh.

can you imagine him realizing that it could all come crumbling down if peepull found the truth....

WE DID ANYWAY..heh..heh..heh... and I do hope it is only a matter of time before the truth dawns on the washed brains of the remaining followers....

I would think Lynne that you are correct in that they assumed due to her morbid obesity that this was what killed her..so no big deal..

quote:

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Knowing this information now, would the police think to reopen the case? Also knowing there is millions of $ on the line. Public liability (As Steve pointed out), money, control of where the business is heading...are these not grounds for a motive?

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Yes, I suppose they could be considered so. I think though, that Peny's intense state of deterioration indicated that she was a gonner anyway, if there was any deliberate overdosing it would be more appropriately considered euthanasia than murder.

The police know, as does anyone who has been involved with pain management in a terminally ill patient that sooner or later the pain meds will suppress respiration to the extent that the patient will die. Most cancer patients don't actually die of cancer, they die of over-medication. It's one of those kind of "unspoken" facts of life, that IMO are best left "unspoken" lest we get the "right to lifers" inflamed enough that they can force doctors to leave people to suffer intense and unbearable pain for months on end. (There are currently movements proposing just that)

quote:

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The question still comes back to where was Jach during her last moments?

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quote:

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Does the police know that Jach/Lazaris professes to see future events, dispense medical knowledge and be there at all times, ready for us to reach out to them? Would they understand how unusual it is that Jach/Lazaris was not there sounding the alarm that something really big was happening? Or was Lazaris so selfish that he wanted his beloved Peny all to himself and that's why he just didn't say anything at the time? OR does Lazaris simply not exist and Jach would have had no way of knowing what was happening or helping and therefore he is a fraud?

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Well, you know my thoughts on that. Too bad Jach didn't think to spin a "loving Lazaris blending" into his story, that would have made for an inspiring twist in the saga.

As to the police understanding the claims about Lazaris, I think they did make a valient effort to figure it all out, but you have to realize that it's incredibly hard for a "non-believer" to wrap their minds around all of this. One of the advantages of "loaded language" in cults is that "outsiders" don't really ever get the significance of what is being said. Those cops would have had to taken the time to study all this crap to decipher all the nuance and hidden meanings, and I don't think they found any compelling incentive to do that.

quote:

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No matter how you slice it...it would make sense to me that the investigation was reopened.

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I don't think the death investigation has anywhere to go. Like I said, Peny was on her way out anyway.

The police have made it very clear that they went as far as they can justify going given that they have to answer to the taxpayers of Florida as to how they spend their time. Given that they have not had enough interest in the way of fraud complaints, or the ability to gather any further facts, as far as I know they've dropped the issue, at least for the moment.

What they want and have asked for are testimonials from people who feel that they have been defrauded by a Florida corporation.

There are lots of things that people could do to lobby for a further investigation, I've posted about this before. The major one would be to file a fraud complaint with the State of Florida. Another would be to get the media to take an interest. Possibly an ambitious prosecutor might be interested in a cult investigation, and have the influence to get the cops back on the job. (assuming they actually have dropped the matter, I'm not sure of that either)

We all have to keep this in context of the rest of the world though. What for some of us is a serious abuse is just a joke to others. Cults are not understood, most people believe that anyone who falls for a line deserves what they get.

To my way of thinking, the most significant benefit that could come out of all of this is that our discussions and personal investigations lead us to a much clearer understanding of the function of mind control, psychological coercion, and manipulation.

Given that very few who are aware of all this information have been able to get past even the most obvious cult ploy, the "love bombing" technique, I don't know that we will even get that far in having any impact on stopping the Jachass Purr-sells of the world.

I think we have to recognize that this is a personal quest for each of us, that the only "justice" we will achieve will be private and personal, and just let things beyond that take their course.

I've put about as much time and energy as I feel compelled to into getting facts and information out about Con:Sin. Now my personal quest is cult-awareness, and doing the inner work I need to get my perspective on beliefs cleared up.

The big questions are how and why so many intelligent sincere seekers were sucked in by this and other scams.

I think the answers to those questions hold within them the true "virgin future" where there are no more captive minds and hearts.

Katie

I could see you and I in court with strings of garlic around our neck to protect us. LOL! Sure you won't join us Katie?

Seriously now...

Good Evening Katie,

Your points are all well taken. You are right, we need people to stand up and report what has happened to them, only in this case they maybe dealing with a lot of embarrassment for being taken in. It must be so confusing to an outsider and I am sure the police must have had a good laugh here and there. When you step back from this scene, it all looks so crazy. I remember going to the one and only workshop I attended and I had a waiter at the hotel restaurant ask me what had brought me to Newark. When I told him I was attending the Lazaris workshop being held in the hotel he had to choke back his laughter. Then he gave me a pitied look that made me angry at the time. (Did he know something I didn't?)

Goddess we must have been so strange to outsiders! The deeper you go in to the world of Lazaris the more separate you become from the rest of the world.

Today in our world -- silly ass, pantomime bull lesbian Cosmicfool Justice is victorious ...and totally out-of-control.. as never before.

We are a proud and great nation. We do not hide in the shadows and strike with smarmy yuppie cowardess. We stand right out in front of all Good Planet Earth, pull down our surfer shorts -- and plop: great big, smart, shiny, wet consumer advocate turds *right* on our flim flam fascist enemies. While they drift in 'perfectly posessed', amoral, smug, new age yuppie coma.

We are at hostile, full-on, recreational World War. And yet we have really neat-o, non-conformist hippie asshole lives! :0) )

Why.. just today: I made some DaAamn..ed easy money, laughed my ass off at several really evil, tire bite'n jokes, ate some fat-free chocolate, helped Katie open our *brand new* Cosmicfool Secret Torture Garden, TM -- and watched TV!

Oh YEAH -- you guys!!! A whole bunch of us kicked Chris' ass and duct taped him out back -- to the old splintery lunch tables!!

God in Heaven -- that was fun.

Friends, we are now a rapidly growing, worldwide Consumer Advocate Cancer on Jach Purcel's profoundly smelly, gargantuan phalic prosthesis.

However -- his *Will Not* be a short, boring, wimp-ass, little cherry bomb-kinda war.

Some of the battles you -- will see. There will be fresh, wet 'anti-miracles' left in mailboxes -- there will be banana cream-filled Saturn Five rockets exploding racht! there on the early evening Orlando Action News.

And some of the battles you -- will not see.

And in the end -- as now: we the Belly Laugh WHO-AH! Pantomime Bull Lesbian Comando Assholes from Santa Cruz, CA (feh. Ah! Think of it as -- "Mecca": if you're in Cape Town) will -- as always... of course prevail.

And the best part is -- WE get to have orgasims.

Steve

You said: ...on Jach Purcel's profoundly smelly, gargantuan phalic prosthesis.

I don't know about the smelly part, but once again the other part is a matter of public record. For those of you still on the mailing list who haven't burned any such material, I suggest you refer to the picture on the background of the half page "Schedule of Orlando Workshop Dates for 2002". It was mailed sometime this summer. I would scan it in, but it's copyrighted material.

The picture is absolutely unbelievable which is why I keep it. I don't think even the creative minds here could do a better spoof of Jach. For those who haven't seen it, it looks like Jach is jerking off his phallic shaped crystal. The placement and direction of the crystal add to the "illusion". Finally, the expression on Jach's face supports the whole act.

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Goddess we must have been so strange to outsiders! The deeper you go in to the world of Lazaris the more separate you become from the rest of the world.

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Absolutely, and by design. Face it, we all fell for the "specialness" aspect. We were keyed into the "source".

Lava and peas,

Katie

quote:

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The picture is absolutely unbelievable which is why I keep it. I don't think even the creative minds here could do a better spoof of Jach. For those who haven't seen it, it looks like Jach is jerking off his phallic shaped crystal. The placement and direction of the crystal add to the "illusion". Finally, the expression on Jach's face supports the whole act.

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No. I'm no longer on their mailing list.

O-K!

I'm 2 for 2:

- I predicted Peny's impending dispatch

- I WANT that Photo, dude!

GOD -- I'm so jealous! I WISH I had Jach's "success"!!!

Fuck it!

I SURE WISH I was a: conscienceless, hated, withering, new awuUuge yuppie channeling cult leader.

Steve