The latest news from the Holy Forum is of yet another poster becoming the victim of the righteous SMUGNESS machine.

Some poor innocent had the nerve to post her thoughts and feelings, that were not in full alignment with the pronouncements of the "Orb", and in the process failed to present the "politically correct" perspective, and so offended and angered Lazaris, Jach, and all Forum members.

The angry mind police let this person know how terrible and inappropriate her thoughts are, and of course, shamed her into an apology.

At least it appears that the siege ended quickly, at least on the Forum, but those of us here who have been similarly thrashed know that the confusion and hurt don't go away as fast as the threads.

I guess Jach sent out the edict to shut down the discussion, lest he lose even more customers in the wake of another three month orgy of self-rightousness.

What possesses these people to believe that they have the right to judge and damn someone for thinking differently, or seeing things in another way than their own little "consensus"?

We may have our disagreements here, but I never heard anyone suggest that another doesn't have the right to think a certain way, or that they are responsible for the anger of another because of the simple act of expressing a thought, opinion, or belief.

In fact, I can't think of any other group that behaves that way, other than the now all two familiar Fundamentalist Fanatics of the world. Where is all this alleged belief in the spirit of the Constitution they love to go on about?

Why are they so weak and insecure that an honest expression from another causes them so much anger?

I ask the first question rhetorically because I know exactly what possesses them. The student quickly takes on the qualities of the teacher. Lava and Peas!!

Some brave soul, it is said, did speak up to support this poster, evidently telling her that she had every right to "second guess" Lazaris or anyone, which is the crime she was accused of committing.

Bravo to a brave poster, my sympathies and understanding to the newest victim, and my complete disdain for every mind controlled, nasty, SMUG, self-righteous, dehumanized idiot who added to the frey.

Map makers indeed..you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

I know some of you read here, and have sent me your very astute input on the state of my consciousness, so right back at you.

Grow up, and get yourselves to the nearest cult awareness counsellor.

You are menaces in a world that is already far far too full of them.

Grow up "magicians". Take the high road, post your apologies to this woman, or stand up for her right to express herself. Too bad if she doesn't agree with "Lazaris" or the flabby ex-insurance man.

In America we are free to express ourselves, and owe nothing to anyone for doing so.

Bah!

Katie
AATF

I guess some things never will change.

I hope no one is holding their breath waiting for a kinder, more gentle Jach since Peny's death (oops, I mean her voyage out of her body that she impetuously decided not to return from).

You said: I know some of you read here, and have sent me your very astute input on the state of my consciousness, so right back at you.

It seems very easy to be spiritual when everyone is acting lovey-dovey. It is fascinating (actually, it is scary) to watch how quickly such spirituality evaporates for some as soon as there is some type of challenge to their beliefs.

I noticed also that this person was reamed for contradicting Jach. Why is that a crime? Isn't Jach just a radio? Why does anyone presume that Jach is wiser than the rest of us? As I said before, if Jach really is a radio, then he has not been present for any seminars. Many people have heard more of Lazaris' teachings than Jach.

And, even if he is so wise, he still can be challenged. Since when did we turn our thought processes over to those who are more wise?

Of course, Jach didn't write back saying something like, "what I posted was my opinion, which has no more or less weight than anyone else's". Obviously, he thinks his opinion is more valuable, hence the Some Time With Jach bullshit.

If Jach is really an objective channel, then he is meant to function as Lazaris claims are egos are meant to function - to deliver data, not to interpret it. If people expect the channel to interpret, does that cause the channel to "go negative" as it supposedly has done when we expect more from our egos than they are meant to do?

Cheers, Ted

Maybe they should rename the Forum "A Study in Smugness".

I think the Forumites are very proud of not being "airy fairy" so they've taken rudeness to new heights to prove their cause.

But, then, what can we expect from group founded by trailer trash?

Maybe someone should send Jach a copy of Miss Manners Guide to the New Millennium. It would give him lots more new good material, and might at least serve to inspire a whole new generation of polite and mannerly "magicians."

Oh, while we're at it, we really should remember to include a copy of "The Constitution for Dummies".

IMO, I hope your stomach settles soon. I'm feeling a bit off myself.

Katie
AATF

You wrote:

"The angry mind police let this person know how terrible and inappropriate her thoughts are, and of course, shamed her into an apology."

This shit is like a communist cell meeting denouncing those not aligned with "right thinking": Comrade Dear One, you have "second guessed" Lazaris, you have tried to "prove him wrong" and in the process, you have "harmed both Jach and Lazaris"--what do you have to say in answer to these charges against you?

Brave new world & all that shit aside, thank god we're out of it, especially at this moment in time--the savages who viciously attack others in the forum are not fit company for man or beast in the best of times, never mind now.

And you know what, Katie? They're also cowards, true cowards picking on the weakest among them.

If what I heard is correct, then I'm betting the only reason they didn't attack the lone voice of support you mentioned was because the poster had had some personal experience with the horrors of war--what a moral conundrum for our merry band; how can we go about decimating someone who has actually experienced the damage that war can bring? What's the protocol for a bunch of pseudo super-patriots when faced with *that* non-imaginary trial by fire?

What to do, what to do--what *did* they do? why, they just ignored that post and poster and got back to playing cat's paw as quick as they could.

It all comes down to this for me; they're mean--so very, very mean.

flo

The true mark of the loser.

Steve

Oh they are mean, but they are also so so so so easily "impacted" and angered.

What the hell???

I can't believe the bullshit.

Now they have a new horrible negative ego to deal with and they are so angry!!!

I know some of you angry ones read here, please explain this to me. If one opinion can have so much negative impact and cause so much anger among the world's most powerful and enlightened magicians, what hope does the rest of the world have?

Maybe it's better to not be an enlightened magician at all, that way you can spare yourselves all the anger and be protected from the impact.

Oh..I just don't get it.

Newest crime....calling the losers "disciples" of Lazaris.

We are not disciples we are FRIENDS!!!

Funny thing, I don't take teachings from my friends.

It would be hysterically funny if it weren't so damned sad. Oh hell, it's hysterically funny. Who can be sad over the most mindless of the mindcontrolled.

Any gang who has to pay homage to the braless wonder Special K Simple can't be taken seriously...not at all.

feels like a true, old time, traditional Eric Cartman Christmas coming -- Three Months Early?

Steve

Yes. God bless responsible online free speach in far right wing America.

El Consyno must be some smelly, humid, army boot bloodied, fascist good-time-plastic-banana equitorial repuUublica, no?

Thanks for trying and it was very good of you to tell us about your post. Every little bit helps unravel this tangled web we have found ourselves in. Hopefully it will inspire others to keep up the direct questioning.

I am glad you confronted Jach and asked him about the email. I admire your courage.

I'm also glad you posted in here about them zapping the email. That pretty much says it all, don't you think? By putting it in here, more and more people will wake up to the truth about what kind of people they really are.

Jach has no character or integrity (Lazaris' definition of integrity is: doing the right thing without having to think about it first).
He shows us absolutely no respect for our feelings. I believe not addressing the posts about the truth in all of this is cowardly.

The definition of courage is "being afraid and doing it anyway" and I think people like you and Katie and Ted and the rest of the people in here that are willing to post the truth about what is going on with Jach and C/S are very courageous. I know it took a lot of courage for me too.

Thanks for letting us know about your post!

Sincerely,

Mickey

More power to you for this..!!

I'm glad to see the admission of this type of thing

You probably know that even if you'd NOT written that he coud zap it ,,,he would've done so anyway!!!!

We know that slime well enough to guess that.

Thanks for the nice post.

quote:

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He shows us absolutely no respect for our feelings. I believe not addressing the posts about the truth in all of this is cowardly.

The definition of courage is "being afraid and doing it anyway" and I think people like you and Katie and Ted and the rest of the people in here that are willing to post the truth about what is going on with Jach and C/S are very courageous. I know it took a lot of courage for me too.

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Well, I have to thank you for your courage Mickey. I used to write a lot here about the e-mails I get from people who for one reason or another don't choose to post, but who are grateful for this site. So, it's always a great thing when someone takes that leap from lurking to posting, or just dives in head first, I'm not sure which you did, but I'm glad you did it.

Right now when so many people are visiting, lots of new and different people are reading daily, it's just a great, great thing that there are so many interesting and thought provoking posts for them to read and hopefully respond to, even if the response is a private and personal one.

I'm hearing more and more about people who are giving up on Lazaris, and that is gratifying too. Ted and I didn't put up this site with the thought that it would take down Con:Sin, we figured they are doing a good enough job on their own, but I can't say that I'm sorry if I know that something posted here may have served as the catalyst for someone to start asking themselves the hard questions, and being willing to step outside the thought control exercised by Jach and his Gang.

There is a lot of pain and confusion when the information starts to set in, but there is really a tremendous sense of celebration once it becomes clear that the mind is free of a very pesky and troublesome influence.

So, cheers to you Mickey! Thanks for sharing.

Katie

quote:

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Originally posted by Katie:
Too bad if she doesn't agree with "Lazaris" or the flabby ex-insurance man.
[/B]

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Katie,

You've used the term “ex-insurance salesman” in relationship to Jach on two occasions that I noted. Are you sure that you’re using it correctly? I think Jach is STILL an insurance salesman, he’s just refined the business model.

As an example:

An insurance salesman will try to collect premiums from customers on the promise that if something catastrophic or accidental happens to them or their property they will be financially protected by an agency with resources and capabilities far beyond their own. And once a customer buys some kind of insurance, the likelihood of him or her buying additional coverage is of a statistically high probability. Of course, the hope is that no benefits will ever have to be paid, but a legitimate insurance salesman will quickly pay off if a genuine need arises. In the meantime, most insurance companies will keep “informing” their customers of other potential threats or risks in order to expand the scope and value of existing policies.

Jach has just found a way to run the same business without the unpleasant need to pay any benefits at all. His followers keep paying premiums (fees) for an ever-expanding list of potential spiritual risks. They are frequently informed of the areas in which they are lacking adequate spiritual defenses. They are supplied with methods (policies) by which they can insure protection against spiritual ignorance, and the scope of coverage is ever expanding.

The refinements in the business model include:
1. Eliminating all competition by asserting that there is only one means to this spiritual end.
2. Shunning those that question the value of any policy.
3. Leveraging the core business (channeling) by expanding the scope of offerings to include trinkets, art, music, Internet access, hardcopy publications, and audiotapes.
4. Constantly redefining the terms of the policy so that pre-existing coverage is never currently adequate.

When you think about it, this is much more sophisticated than a simple MLM scheme. In fact, the conversations on this board already show the range of “accelerators” used by this business, and it makes a compelling case for the idea that Jach knows exactly what he’s doing.

1. The uninformed or unfamiliar are treated like “normal people” and even shown courtesy and favor.

2. Those that indicate interest are brought gradually into the fold by means of widely established and non-threatening concepts like “you make your own reality”.

3. Those that show they are willing to pursue Pursel are gradually indoctrinated into the “Magick” and other manipulations that prohibit dissent or discussion.

4. The “inner circle” are established to protect the scheme (see refinements 1,2, &3) so that the principals can remain above reproach and not directly responsible for inappropriate behavior.

Granted this last one started to fall apart as soon as the mass communication medium of on-line access and the Internet opened the Concept:Synergy kimono to a broader audience than just confirmed proselytes. In fact, Jach probably regrets ever going “on-line” as it has contracted, rather than expanded, his business. But the greed factor, early on, was probably too much to resist.

There is another parallel to the insurance industry that is of interest. Insurance company marketing attempts to convey that they are interested in the welfare of their customers, and they use that same theme to justify the purchase of a policy, “you will be protecting your family – do it for them.” This kind of corporate altruism is reflected in Jach’s assertion that Lazaris is a “friend” and is communicating out of love for humanity.

Beware altruists who make a lot of money while proclaiming their concern for others. This isn’t about philosophy or spirituality; it’s about money. Lots of money.

Regards,

I liked your analogy regarding Jach and the insurance salesman.

I definitely got my policy cancelled by CS by questioning some of the insurance salesman's motives and then was told it wouldn't be discussed after I paid my premiums for almost 15 years and never turned in a claim.

Sucks don't it? [g]

Sincerely,

I liked your insurance salesman analysis.

Own a piece of the rock! (or is it crystal?)

quote:

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Originally posted by Mickey:
Dear George,

I liked your analogy regarding Jach and the insurance salesman.

I definitely got my policy cancelled by CS by questioning some of the insurance salesman's motives and then was told it wouldn't be discussed after I paid my premiums for almost 15 years and never turned in a claim.

Sucks don't it? [g]

Sincerely,

Mickey

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Mickey,

Yes, it does suck. And I'm sorry for that lengthy investment you made, but you've apparently come out of it "whole", and that is something to be proud of.

As bad as it is, being involved in a cult IS a learning experience and when a person leaves, he or she is in a much better position to help others avoid cult-like behavior.

Right now our country is at war with a cult (Taliban terrorists). Isn't it interesting how our small personal issues mirror the larger issues of our society?

Regards,

You wrote:

quote:

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The definition of courage is "being afraid and doing it anyway" and I think people like you and Katie and Ted and the rest of the people in here that are willing to post the truth about what is
going on with Jach and C/S are very courageous. I know it took a lot of courage for me too.

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Thanks for the kind words. And right back atcha. It certainly takes a lot of courage to speak up in the J&L room, when doing so will indubitably result in massive shaming. Somehow all those shame tapes didn't prepare people for the Forum

You're right about the massive shaming in the J&L room.

Sometimes I'd post a message in there (after going over and over it to make sure I didn't offend anyone). Then I would start worrying that maybe I did say it wrong and the onslaught would come down on me. Total fear that Peny would confront me and how humiliated I would be in front of all those "highly evolved mapmakers". (Obviously, I use that term lightly).

It's so sad I gave my power away like that.
I will never do it again.

Sincerely,

Thanks for your post.

quote:

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Yes, it does suck. And I'm sorry for that lengthy investment you made, but you've apparently come out of it "whole", and that is something to be proud of.

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I don't feel "whole". Not yet. I wake up and one of the first things I think is that I don't have Lazaris anymore. It feels like a death and I feel grief and depression. At some point it turns to anger over what CS has done. Sometimes I feel shame that I believed it.
And I feel terribly sad that everything I thought that "was" isn't that way at all.

Sometimes I'm able to joke about it too.
I was over at my sister's house crying and I said, "Oh God, my imaginary friend lied and I am devasted." Then I started laughing and I said, "This sounds so sick".

It's such a wide range of emotions to sift through but it will be worth it to not live a lie anymore.

I spent more time with Lazaris bringing him into my life than I did with anyone physical. I can't even shut my eyes without starting to see that spark that grows to an eliptic of light.

I just want the others who were like me to see the truth - as hard as it is I will get through it and come out stronger in the end.

Sincerely,

Mickey

quote:

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I don't feel "whole". Not yet. I wake up and one of the first things I think is that I don't have Lazaris anymore. It feels like a death and I feel grief and depression. At some point it turns to anger over what CS has done. Sometimes I feel shame that I believed it.
And I feel terribly sad that everything I thought that "was" isn't that way at all.

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Thanks for sharing your feelings. Most of us who have been posting here for awhile experienced similar feelings when first realizing that "Lazaris" is not what he claims, and surely not worthy of trust

It certainly is an internal upheaval of many facets. Even though "Lazaris' preached personal empowerment, the actual effect was disempowerment, a turning away from our Selves.

quote:

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I just want the others who were like me to see the truth - as hard as it is I will get through it and come out stronger in the end.

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So glad you are on your way back to your Self, peeling away the blinders of "Lazaris" and setting yourself free.

Jade

Thanks for your message. It does help knowing that you and others know what I am going through since you have been through it.

Sincerely,