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Author Topic:   Letter to Jach
Craig
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Posts: 698
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-17-2001 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi All,

I am going to be writing a letter to Jach requesting some answers to specific questions. I will also be requesting some time from Lazaris so that Lazaris can be asked some questions.

I already have compiled a small list of questions that are important to me. I would be interested in what others may want asked. As the letter will go out in my name, I can make no guarantee as to whether I will include all questions. My intent is to ask the most relevant questions. I will ask the questions as respectfully as I can. At this time, I am not soliciting any questions for Lazaris. Frankly, I see it as a long shot that I will get any answers from Jach, let alone Lazaris.

If you would like any questions asked, please reply to this post or feel free to email me at "DOUBLECHECKCS at ATT dot NET".

I will post the final letter here once I send it. If anyone is interested in reading the letter before I send it, I would be happy to share it with the understanding that suggested changes would be most welcome. Email me to request a copy.

Cheers, Craig

[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 11-11-2001).]

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Amaryllis
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posted 08-18-2001 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Amaryllis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Craig:

I have been following along for a few months and wanted to thank you for your many posts and especially the compilation that you wrote a while back.

Here are the questions Jach really needs to answer in my mind.

Why was he so deeply codependent with Peny, calling people in Sunday morning and asking them not to be mad with Peny, etc., and how does that fit within his definition of freedom?

Why was it acceptable to him, out of dignity, to acquiesce to Peny having her nasty e-mail behinds-the-scenes trash group?

With Peny's character obviously in question, why did Lazaris only mention the faults of Jach or Michael North, never dare talk about Peny's limitations, like her well documented mean streak?

Did the troika ever make money, serious money, at a business that where Lazaris was not the product of attraction?

As Pippa mentioned, why did he cancel private consultations and not the events themselves, using the same logic?

Why does C:S run itself like an entitlement show, instead of a business?

Craig, I may think of more. but these are the primary. Really, in my mind, Lazaris owes us all an explanation on these.

Regards,

Amaryllis

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Craig
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posted 08-18-2001 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Amaryllis,

Welcome to the site!

Thanks for the kind words. It is nice to be reminded of all those out there who choose to "lurk" yet are deeply involved in their own process of evaluation. I hope you feel free to share as little or as much as feels comfortable for you.

A couple of your questions I think are better asked of Lazaris than Jach. I will keep those around in the somewhat remote chance that I am "granted" some type of access to Lazaris.

Cheers, Craig

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Craig
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posted 08-20-2001 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Everyone,

Someone posted an idea on the LL site that such a letter be signed by a bunch of people. The hope is that it would be harder to dismiss. I think this is a good idea.

I think the easiest way to do this might be for me to post the final letter on both sites so that people could print it. Then, each person would sign and send their copy to C:S. I would send my copy via registered mail. I question how many people would be willing to sign their name even if they legitimately wanted to know the answers. Maybe in that case, they might simply sign it as a friend of Lazaris and not put their return address on the envelope.

I welcome your thoughts about the idea in general, including any ideas other than what I just mentioned on how to take care of the coordination. If this is a group effort, I would also need some mechanism for people to review/enhance the letter.

Cheers, Craig

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Audrey
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Posts: 302
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-21-2001 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Audrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig,

Good idea....I don't like sounding negative, but I don't think you're gonna get Jachass outta his ivory tower long enuf to even THINK about granting anyone the time of day.

I called CS right after I was 86'd outta the Forum for NO REASON,(and with no respect,no due process etc etc etc... just signed Love and Peace).....I tried to get a private consultation. What I got on the phone was the most pathetic double-speak that had come outta that place, I asked how long is the waiting list.

Suffice to say I never even got the "application" or whatever to fill out.
Good luck, I do hope you get your day....but don't hold yer breath...
Chow,
Audrey

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Craig
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posted 08-21-2001 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Audrey and All,

I have received a number of emails that express a similar opinion. I personally would bet on not receiving a response. I hope I am proven wrong.

There seems to be a sentiment from those sitting on the fence that a non-answer will be a significant form of an answer.

I haven't thought it through fully, but I will make damn sure that Jach himself gets to read the letter. I don't want to allow any C:S "handler" to get the credit for sheltering Jach from this letter. Basically, I'm not going to give up until I know Jach has both received and read the letter. If that means me personally handing him a letter at a seminar, so be it. I haven't been to Disneyworld in a while.

Finally, if anyone knows the law firm that represents C:S, please email me at "CRAIG at ATT dot NET". I don't think the firm's name should be published publicly on this site at this time.

Cheers, Craig

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IMO
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posted 08-21-2001 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IMO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig,
I've been giving it some thought. A large number of letters would have greater impact and would be harder to keep from Jach.
One or two peasants complaining rarely gets to the king’s ear, but when a lot of peasants complain loudly and all at once, the king has to give it some attention.
Also you wrote about a check box to remain anonymous for fear of reprisal. I think that is excellent. No return address no name just check the box.
It is amazing how many people fear reprisal. What does that say in itself?
About personally handing him a copy yourself at a seminar, well that just made me sit back and grin from ear to ear.
I know when I receive a registered letter the postal person lets me look at the return address or tells me who it's from so I can decide if I want it or not. I don't know if it is legal but it happens every time.
Craig when Jach gets this letter, no blending for you one year!!!
I couldn’t resist
IMO

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Amaryllis
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posted 08-21-2001 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Amaryllis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Craig:

Another question for the letter, how does Jach reconcile within a sense of character and dignity Peny's usage of some Lazaris private consultations as gifts to influence or assuage people, apparetnly at least people who have withdrawn themselves from the interactions with PMJ? For that matter, how does Lazaris allow himself to be part of that less-than agenda? We have heard stories of Lazaris just not coming through when he didn't want to do a project (Jach has told that story at least once). I guess Lazaris would never do that to Peny, but then that behavior is enabling and being codependent with Peny, isn't it. How does that work as OK in Jach's mind? Why does Peny get this slack on character?

Amaryllis

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Katie
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posted 08-23-2001 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Katie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig and All,

I think that finding a way to directly confront Jach with our concerns is a very good idea. I'm not as excited about the letter writing campaign though, especially the anonymous proposal. Thousands of letters would be awesome, but there aren't thousands of us who are feeling these concerns and willing to express them, let's get real. At best, there is only a relative handful of people who, based on my experience, will be willing to put their name on a piece of paper addressed to Jach. I wouldn't blame him in the least for ignoring anonymous correspondences. What is the point in writing anonymously? The writer could be anyone.

Of course it's a great thing to put our words to paper, but let's be realistic. We can be sure that over the years there isn't much that Jach hasn't heard in the way of the questions and complaints any of us have.
We can be quite sure he's been ignoring them for years.

If Jach gave a damn he would give just as much of a damn about one sincere writer as he would ten thousand. As far as I'm concerned, Jach has amply demonstrated the level of concern for the feelings of others, it falls somewhere around the zero mark unless it's about manipulating those feelings to suit his goals.

What we all have to remember is that other than the issues surrounding the recent deaths, everything we are discussing on both of our sites is just the same old same old to Jach, it's been long justified and rationalized away.

We are all in negative ego, don't forget, not to mention a bunch of childish ungrateful whiners.

Jach has handlers, people who surround him to insulate him from any reality beyond the one he chooses to recognize, a reality in which he is a generous, loving, big hearted teddy bear of a fella. Anyone who misses that is guilty of high crime. His adoring fans will always come to the rescue.

I do like Craig's idea of presenting him with a letter face to face. Now we are talking. Let's all go to Orlando together with our letters and hand them to him enmasse in public. Now, there is a statement that he could not ignore, but we still, IMO, will not get one answer or one response from Jach. All we will get is whatever satisfaction comes from knowing without a doubt that he got the message. I can assure you, though, he has already gotten the message. He doesn't care and he never has. If he had any ethics or social conscience none of us would be discussing Lazaris right now because Jach never would have channelled him, regardless of whether Lazaris is a real entity or a figment of Jach's imagination. A person of conscience and decency would have known from the start that all the Peny adoration was a recipe for disaster.

Which one of you would take an entity seriously who all of a sudden showed up to tell you that your spouse, mate, or best friend is the most magical person in the universe? As much as I love and respect Ted, I'd sure quickly see the dangerous bs of that, not to mention the nasty impact it would have on him should I play along with the game. Ted is awesome, absolutely, but he certainly is in no need of a pedestal. Pedestals, as history has shown are not healthy places for people to hang out. Think about it carefully. What kind of a person would continue to participate in a hurtful game like this for so many years.

And be very very clear on this! The pain, anguish, emotional and spiritual devastation has been going on since DAY 1. This is nothing new or different. I have personally spoken to people who had their versions of Forum Storm years and years ago, people who have expressed every one of our concerns and more to Jach, Peny, and Lazaris directly. There are many, many stories like this, and they are far worse than any story any one of us has to tell. Some of these people are still experiencing deep grief and confusion after decades.

So, sure, let's send our letters to Jach, I've been sending them off and on over the past year, why not?

But, let's not delude ourselves that we are going to have any significant impact in doing so.

Here are a few other ideas which might inspire some of you, and might actually have some impact.

Call Con:Sin and ask to speak to Jach directly. Keep trying. Ask the person who answers the phone what the cause of Peny's death was.
Demand to have your name and all your words removed from the Forum.
Request a refund for all seminars attended or private readings
Ask to return your tapes for cash refund.
Complain to the Consumer Fraud department for the State of Florida explaining to them that you have requested these refunds and that they have been denied to you. Ask what forms you need to fill out to file a complaint.
Contact the Orlando or Orange County Business Associations and file complaints with them
Contact the Orlando or national media and ask them to do a story
Contact the Orange County Special Investigations Unit and ask them to pursue a fraud inquiry based on the insane markups and claims made for the crystals.
Write articles for submission to New Age publications stating your concerns and questions about Lazaris
Get together and hire an attorney to initiate a class action lawsuit against Jach and Concept/Synergy
Go to Orlando and start asking questions. Find out who cleans Jach's toilet and have a chat with them.
Visit the warehouse where the Con/Slavers work, and have a chat with them.

But, most of all, educate yourselves. Come to an understanding on your own about what this Con/Scam is about. Study cults, cult tactics, and techniques. Understand mind control and how it works. Take time to examine all of your beliefs and experiences regarding Lazaris and hold them up to this light of understanding.
Allow yourselves to think the unthinkable, try it on for size, look in the mirror, and see how it fits.
Study megalomania
Read up on other cult leaders
Think, think, think, think. Think those thoughts that don't feel good and happy. Let yourself feel the pain if you have to, but keep asking WHY and dont stop until you get to the answers that do start adding up.

Ultimately, there is nothing we need from Jach or Lazaris. We have access to all the answers within ourselves.

But, IMO, Jach is doing a terrible terrible thing, and anything anyone can do to call him on it, make it as uncomfortable as possible, or to stop it completely has my full and complete support.

For those of you who think that you can pressure Jach to become a kinder gentler channel of a new and improved entity who actually responds to our questions and concerns, I would suggest that you forget it. There is no such Jach, and no such Entity.

Any other suggestions? Surely we can generate enough momentum here to actually have some impact. I don't honestly believe that a letter writing campaign will do the trick.

Katie

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Craig
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posted 08-23-2001 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Katie,

I agree with much of what you say.

I see the chance of getting a response as small. However, it is something I feel compelled to do. I feel I owe it to someone to give him a fair opportunity to respond. If they choose not to respond, then they will have removed any reservations I may have about taking further action. The fact that they have been given this opportunity already by others is significant, but I personally can't judge the circumstances under which such requests have been made. When I have made the request myself, I am sure. I think this is also important for others. It is one thing to know someone has turned down others. Being turned down yourself has much more impact.

As far as writing anonymously, I would prefer people to sign their own name. It certainly will carry more weight. However, I think it may be helpful for people who want to remain anonymous to be able to state their view. However, I think if Jach chooses to look at the enevelope style, postmarks, type of stamp used, handwriting variation, etc. he will know that the anonymous letters are not coming from one source.

I also question how many people will actually send in the letter, even anonymously. I believe there will be a superstition that some people feel in doing so. The thinking may go that since others are responding, why should I take a chance, even if there is a very remote chance that doing so will impact my relationship with Lazaris. Such superstition is obviously not grounded in anything Lazaris has said and I believe directly contradicts it.

I really don't care if I am the only one sending the letter. The letter is mainly being done for personal reasons. If others want to piggyback on my efforts, you are welcome but not needed from my perspective. Do what feels right to you.

You said: A person of conscience and decency would have known from the start that all the Peny adoration was a recipe for disaster.

I disagree with your line of thought here. After all, there are still many long term FOLs that have seen all of the information, but refuse to believe anything differently. While it may well be the case that Jach has come to this realization and continues on out of greed for money and/or power, I can also accept him being as in the dark as the rest of us.

You said: Here are a few other ideas which might inspire some of you, and might actually have some impact.

We should not forget to include the medical and psychological advice that he has given people that is wrong or harmful. I'm not a lawyer (and don't even play one on TV), but I think there must be some grounds there. Also, I think the financial damages people suffered as a result of the cancelling of west coast seminars would be of interest.

Cheers, Craig

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Audrey
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Posts: 302
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-23-2001 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Audrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Katie,

Yourrrrr're Baaaaaack.!??????
or in some internet cafe' on the left bank???
???
The coffee is better in EU isn't it.!!!

Very good well thought out post, it's great to feel like there are ways to deal with this that won't end up in total frustration, which is what I felt after trying to get my needs for resolution met directly with those assholes @ con:sin...

I think writing to New age journals, a good one to try.... and it's a great idea overall, cuz they are so full of woo-woo crap.... Showing peepull that one needs to descriminate when looking for ideas to WORSHIP can only be a positive thing.

I will need to work on my self-rightous attitude towards the very publications I'd be looking to print my words though eh??? heh heh....

Thanks for the tips, there are constructive things to do to make things uncomfortable like you say, and I would hope we can all give them a try on whatever level we can fit those projects into our busy lives.

Lava and Peas,
Audrey


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Craig
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posted 08-23-2001 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Katie and Audrey,

As far as writing to a new age magazine, I think that is a great idea also. I might volunteer to write such an article myself. Of course, we never know if they have some type of advertising relationship with C:S that they would be fearful of breaking. I would want to find that out before I spent much time writing such an article. As you point out, one of the beauties of this approach is that it would hopefully be beneficial to other people outside of the Lazaris set. Other public approaches that have been mentioned before such as getting an investigative reporter involved offer similar benefits.

I feel strongly that I won't write any such article or take any alternative action until I first give Jach and Lazaris a fair chance to explain themselves. Assuming no response, however, I think we should all take many parallel actions to get at the truth.

Cheers, Craig

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TedV
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posted 08-23-2001 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TedV     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig, Katie and Audrey,

I think these New Age publications have a duty to present counterpoint to the information that they routinely publish as though it were factual. Any "real" (non-New Age) publication would report on the Lazaris phenomenom as Jach claiming to channel Lazaris. That's a fact - Jach does claim to channel. Whether or not he really does is not a fact - it's a claim, speculation.

Katie and I know the publisher of a well-known New-Age publication and he told us that he has had his suspicions of Jach being a fraud. Yet he has many times published "Lazaris" material with no disclaimer. I think the time has come for some balance in these publications. Printing more than one side of the issue should increase their credibility.

However, if they're looking for strokes - financial or emotional - they won't print what we'vc got to say. They would probably rather not even introduce the idea that everything is not as the self-proclaimed leaders of the New Age say it is.

But I say let's issue the challenge. I will purchase any journal which treats lazaris as real and write to them. I'll post the responses here.

Cheers, Ted

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Audrey
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posted 08-23-2001 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Audrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Ted and all,

While out on my lunch break I remembered also, that radio show " New Dimensions Radio"
Micheal Toms, you must all know him.
He's been around for YEARS! on NPR mostly
now he's on mid-day on WED. on 91.7FM here in the bay area.
there must be a web link to his show either on NPR, or his own site.

I would especially like to get a piece on his show, as he's out on the airwaves and well respected!!.

I believe he's in Ukiah, CA. but of course one could call in and hold an interview no matter where you are.
I will research this, and report back!!

Another thing, I hae never seen any Bizzarus ads , and I'm thinking of "common Ground" mag. an oversized very complete new-agey source book type mag. that also runs articles, as a possible good one to reach out to..
Chow,
Audrey

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Katie
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posted 08-23-2001 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Katie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Aud, Craig, and All,

Ted and I will be in transit as of tomorrow morning, UK time, that will be the middle of the night your time I guess.

Aud, we are posting from our private cottage in the South of England. Not as cool as a left bank internet cafe, but much more cozy.

We have drunk little coffee, being in "Rome" we are doing as the "Romans" and 'avin a proper tea.

Lots to tell on our return, it's been another awesome adventure.

Heart clogging cookbook to follow.

Next post will be from hometown Santa Cruz!

Hope our magic holds so we get those magical seats that turn into beds on BA.

I miss my kitties!!!

Katie

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Audrey
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Posts: 302
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-23-2001 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Audrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Youz,

I know how you must miss your "kids" that hurts me when I go away too...I even think of them like: "wouldn't they love to see all these other kitties in the coluseum in Rome",
or wouldn't the doggie love to go swimmin' in THIS lake"

a disease of child-transferrral??

Well, we sorta miss you guys,cuz it almost feels like you were never really GONE..!!

Hey. !!! if you happen to stop off in any pharmacies b-4 you leave good old UK.. wouldya mind picking me up a couple boxes of "HYDERGINE" I'm sorry I don't know the co. name that it would be known by...but that's the name of the chemical itself.
It is one of the BEST memory "medicines" i have ever known about...but only percription HERE! for alzheimers none the less..shucks I don't have that YET!!!!!!!!!!!

But only if this is in no-way a put out for y'all!!!!

HEY, just a quick update that I thought would be very intersting to all here.

I went to "new dimensions radio web-site, and lo and behold,,,,when searching the past taped shows available , BIG NADA on the Lazaris search and Jack purcell, jach purcell, even in metaphysics nothing with them in the subject...etc...

seth brought up a few tapes, and then i tried "channeling"
wow.!!! there is a tape available by :
JON KLIMO, he did a show called "CHANNELING, TRUTH OR FRAUD!!!!!!!!
He wrote a book in 1987 (publisher Tarcher) called Channeling: Investigations on receiving information from paranormal sources

pretty interesting stuff eh?
well, it seems like long enough time has passed that Micheal Toms may be interested in running another show about this type of issue....
to check out the site:
www.newdimensions.org
(I think)
Cheers,
Audrey

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Pete
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posted 08-23-2001 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I have now waved Katie and Ted off on their way back to the US... Quite interesting to have met the co-conspirators in person. Of course I made them a good cup of English tea. I would like to tell you that I have dainty English teacups but I'm afraid not: if you visit me you get tea in big mugs.

Interesting too to find out lots of new things about Lazaris and Concept:Synergy.

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Jade
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posted 08-23-2001 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Katie,
Wonderful post. Loved all your suggestions. A focused effort in a couple of areas might get the greatest result in the long run.

quote:
As far as I'm concerned, Jach has amply demonstrated the level of concern for the feelings of others, it falls somewhere around the zero mark unless it's about manipulating those feelings to suit his goals.

Well said.

quote:
For those of you who think that you can pressure Jach to become a kinder gentler channel of a new and improved entity who actually responds to our questions and concerns, I would suggest that you forget it. There is no such Jach, and no such Entity.

Amen.

The only question I have for Jach was asked by Katie in an email way back, "How do you sleep at night?"

If I were going to write to Jach, I'd be telling him what I think of him and what he is doing with his Sparky Con:Scam (I like that one, Katie). But I don't think he'd give any more of a hoot about that than a list of questions.

quote:
Which one of you would take an entity seriously who all of a sudden showed up to tell you that your spouse, mate, or best friend is the most magical person in the universe?

Only a nut case would believe this. But the only way Jach is crazy is like a fox.

Missed you and Ted, glad you are on your way home.



Jade

[This message has been edited by Jade (edited 08-23-2001).]

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Craig
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posted 08-23-2001 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Audrey, Katie & Ted,

Katie and Ted, I hope you have a safe journey and welcome back!

Audrey, from what I know of Michael Toms, he always spends a half hour interviewing someone in the public eye. I have never known him to either interview "mere mortals" (like yourself, myself, Ted or Katie) or to do any investigative reporting on his own. I have never seen him ask very controversial questions. That said, I have enjoyed many of his interviews.

I don't think he would be a candidate to interview Jach because he is not confrontational (assuming of course he first got Jach to agree to the interview). Probably the only hope would be to have him talk to Jon Klimo again. But first, someone would have to fill in Klimo. You referenced Klimo's book published in 1987. He actually has a revised version published in 98 or 99 that I picked up about a week ago. He spends a fair amount of time discussing Lazaris and has a lot of information about channeling including various theories. He is generally pro-channeling, but presents all sides to the argument. Jach even has an endorsement for the book on the back of the new revision! I think Klimo would be VERY interested in what we have to say.

I think it would be quite ironic if we could get FOX news to do a report on them. Also, does anyone know how to contact Shirley MacLaine?

Cheers, Craig

[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 08-23-2001).]

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floruitt
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posted 08-24-2001 06:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for floruitt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey, Craig,

You wrote:

"Also, does anyone know how to contact Shirley MacLaine?"

MacLaine has a website (www.shirleymaclaine.com) but there's no email contact for her (that I could find) on the site.

There is a message board (which a couple of us posted to the night Michael's suicide was announced--that *might* be a way to catch her eye, if you kept the thread alive--we didn't)but barring that, your best bet would be to go to a bookstore and check out what her contact info is (usually included in a celebrity author's book--agent address, etc.)

What I found interesting about MacLaine's site was that a search produced no hits for Lazaris, Peny or Jach, but five for Kevin Ryerson (not sure if you remember him from your previous reading of the posts on this site--he was a channel Shirley liked that Peny dissed as being irresponsible), including a link to Ryerson's appearance on her radio netshow last Spring.

The site also has hits for Sylvia Browne, one of which is a glowing endorsement of Browne's ability to help people heal their lives with information gained through her "deep trance channeling ability"--which is all to say that MacLaine obviously still believes in channeling itself, so the omission of any reference to Lazaris seems pretty telling to me.

flo

[This message has been edited by floruitt (edited 08-24-2001).]

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Audrey
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posted 08-24-2001 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Audrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig and Flo,

Now that I think about it Craig you are RIGHT,!!!! we mere mortals won't get airtime with Micheal Toms....duhhhh....

Actually,.. he always seemed to me to be very, very OPEN to all the new agey woo-woo stuff, and if someone(well known)had a theory he'd just give'em air-time( especially when he could sell their book)
... sorta like that other radio host:Art bell...
that's all good and well IF Micheal would allow for the nay-sayers to speak up, and /or the ones which have had their wallets vacumed by the creme de la creme of the new-age movements!!!

It is interesting though that Jach /Lazaris never did get on Micheals Show!!!!.. hmmm...it IS the type of material...right up Micheals alley.....! it makes me wonder...mostly about Peny and Jach perhaps being too paranoid to actually engage in any question and answer!!!!!!!!!!!God knows they have never been open to it amongst the inner FOLs, so why would Micheal be given the honors...

I thought Jon Klimo would be good to contact.,I am sorry to hear that he is in the end pro channeling, I thought otherwise actually from the short notes about the show...

Jach wrote an endorsment of the book!!!!! ...Yikes..I guess I'll have to read that book to see whuzzupwiddatt...

FLO, you mentiond Shirleys website, I'd surfed there not long ago, and didn't actually expect any Bizzarus info cuz I'd thought from reading her book that Peny pretty much f**cked up with her outrage/superiority etc. and SHirley dumped them,
((even AFTER shirley had gotten QUITE the STAR treatment from Jach, special daily tapings etc sent overnight! to sweden etc.)) special "sleep well tonigh dear one" L. made JUST for her to help with insomnia..etc(barf)
all the while the mere mortals had a "waiting list" for private consultations...
I digress...

ANYWAY, I can pretty much guess that Shirley would do what stars do, stay well away from other peoples fights and controversy.

I do think that because she has a public forum on her website, one could bring up specific questions for her regarding her falling out with the orb.
perhaps engage her in that way. BUTTTT Shirley strikes me as a gal that wants to have everything light and bright and wonderful...
I dunno what do y-all get from her???

I guess what I am getting to with this , is that it's nice to think that we can get some type of instant BIG recognition, but it may turn out to be more plodding and a bit slower than that, we have to do our own work on this, no-one like Micheal, and Shirley will do it for us.
Cheers,
Audrey

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Steve Brooks
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posted 08-24-2001 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Brooks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig,

quote:
Also, does anyone know how to contact Shirley MacLaine?

info@shirleymaclaine.com

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

[This message has been edited by Steve Brooks (edited 08-24-2001).]

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Dolfingirl2000
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posted 08-25-2001 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dolfingirl2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone~~

Long time, no see .

Why doesn't someone try to contact 20/20 or one of the shows like that to investigate? Give them all of the information and then they could have one of their reporters go to an evening or weekend "undercover". They could then request an interview with either Jach or Lazaris. Not for nothing, but if you're refusing to give Barbara Walters or Hugh Downs an interview then you probably have something to hide. Just a suggestion.

Hope your trip to England was wonderful Katie and Ted--

Have a great night everyone.

Vicki

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Steve Brooks
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posted 08-25-2001 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Brooks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Dolphingirl,

That's a great idea.

New Age Magazine, et al -- feed on a foundation of new awuuge wet noodle-discernment googooo's (see Shirley Maclaine pumping Gordon Michael Scalion on her web page -- the guy convinced hundreds of people to sell their homes at very low prices in Seattle for fear of the whole west coast falling into the Pacific back in the '90's).

One *does* wonder if Shirley -- too -- has done LSD -- or perhaps just wants to attract popular "spiritual" attention without making adult waves.

IMO far better to direct this to media outlets that could really juice the story for the whole, ugly flim flam cult IMO basis -- with absolutely *no* reservations.

I think their ratings would absolutely rock.

Americans love to hate yuppie scam artists.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve Brooks (edited 01-16-2002).]

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TedV
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posted 08-26-2001 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TedV     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Vicki,

You wrote:

quote:
Hope your trip to England was wonderful Katie and Ted--

It was wonderful, thank you.

Cheers, Ted

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Craig
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posted 09-05-2001 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi All,

Does anyone have a "real" street address for Concept:Synergy? I would like to send my letter via UPS or FedEx overnight letter, both of which require a street (not a PO box).

Also, I will send the letter via email. Anybody have an address that would go directly to Jach?

Thanks, Craig

[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 09-05-2001).]

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Kaitlyn
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posted 09-05-2001 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kaitlyn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello, Katie, et al...

Katie, it is okay if you print my letter to you now...the one that I sent you by private e-mail. I have looked for the letter from Jach back in 1995 but I must have thrown it out...can't find it. I must have purged it from my files. I suppose at the moment I threw it away that I had wanted to rid myself from the past.

But my memory is true, and all I said to you stands.

Here's the thing, guys:

It's just a mess.

There are no real answers coming from writing to Jach. I seriously doubt whether Jach can get it together to answer you, and even if he does, I'd be on guard that it would be just another manipulation. As I myself experienced and recognized for what it was: his reply was just another manipulation.

The thing to know is...there were GREAT positive realizations that happened through the whole Lazaris experience for all of us. Our own positive discoveries are NOT to be underestimated. But there were terribly negative things, too! There was manipulation, control, power tripping, and there is NEVER an excuse for that!

You've pinned it. The negative aspects are the frightening dynamics between the three individuals: Peny, Michael, Jach, and...NEGATIVE EGO with that whole situation, amongst the three of them and their organization. Strange, isn't it, that the very thing they accused all of you of is exactly what they did themselves...operate out of NEGATIVE EGO.

Father Freud (coked out as he was) would be having a good chuckle.

See...it's like this: they were people, those three, just like the rest of us... looking for answers.

They thought they had access to all the answers, but they didn't. As it turns out, They had SOME of the answers. But it all got very distorted, and they could not admit when they were wrong.

So what else is new? It happens time and again with human beings.

Here's my take on it: Time to move on.

Time to do more internal work, each and every one... express the anger in constructive ways (like here), forgive, and move on.

But don't forget!

Let's resolve not to let this happen to us or anybody else again. If we can help it.

That's all, folks.

Kaitlyn

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Jade
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posted 09-06-2001 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Kaitlyn,
quote:
See...it's like this: they were people, those three, just like the rest of us... looking for answers.

Well then, we may as well just obliterate 95% of the information and experience reported on this site.

As for the trio being in "negative ego", I don't care to define them by one of their cult terms.

Jade

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Jade
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posted 09-06-2001 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Craig,

10216 Peny Lane Dr.
Orlando, FL 32836

I'm sure his Royal Innocence will invite you to tea and a swim.


Jade

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Craig
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posted 09-06-2001 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Jade,

I assumed you were kidding about the address.

Cheers, Craig

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Craig
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posted 09-06-2001 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi All,

I have finished my letter to Jach. I have sent it today via US express mail overnight letter so I can track it over the web. I also sent it via email. I'll post when there is any change in status. See my next post for the contents of the letter.

I encourage all of you to voice your opinions to Jach concerning this letter by composing a quick note in your own style expressing your support or lack thereof. Feel free to express your opinion, whether it agrees with mine or not. Please also tell any friends that have experience with Lazaris of this opportunity to be heard.

We are dealing with a very small group of people here. Assume that you are one of the few out of the small group that is willing to make their voice heard.

I know some have expressed concern about supplying their name to Concept:Synergy (CS) because they fear loosing forum or seminar privileges. Others are concerned about betraying Lazaris.

For those concerned about betraying Lazaris, please recall how many times he has said he is your friend and will always be there. Recall how many times he asked for things not to be accepted just because "Lazaris said so." Do you really feel that the Lazaris you believe in would be offended by honest, respectful questioning? I would hope he would rejoice in it. If he does indeed mind, then I think you have found out something very significant about Lazaris.

For those concerned about any actions CS would take, I feel you have a more legitimate concern. They certainly have a track record that suggests reason for pause. If you would still like your voice to be heard without letting your name be known to CS, I suggest you send in your letter anonymously. Hopefully, your vote will still count as they will see the variety of styles, postmarks, and envelopes that are representing these opinions. Naturally, a vote cast with your own name is more meaningful, but I feel there should be some method of having the disenfranchised represented.

I ask all those who plan to act to do so as soon as possible.

Thanks, Craig

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Craig
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posted 09-06-2001 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*** SENT VIA EMAIL AND US EXPRESS MAIL OVERNIGHT LETTER ****

September 6, 2001

Mr. Jach Pursel
Concept: Synergy
P.O. Box 691867
Orlando, FL 32869

Dear Jach,

Before I say much, I would ask you to acknowledge receipt of this letter. I have a concern that this letter ever reaches you as someone in your organization may take it upon themselves to "shelter" you from this. Thus, please telephone, email or write to me to indicate that you have received this letter. My full name, phone number, email and postal address are provided in attachment A. I initially only ask that you acknowledge personal receipt of the letter and give me an indication as to when and if you are going to respond. I must tell you that I will be rather persistent in getting that acknowledgement. I will not demand that you answer the questions I ask, but I will make sure you have personally received the letter.

Let me state that anything I say here is my own opinion. Much of it is based on hearsay.

As I'm sure you are aware, over the past year there has been a lot of discussion about Concept: Synergy (CS) and Lazaris on the cosmicfool web site at http://www.cosmicfool.com/lazaris . A new site at has been started within the past two months.

A copy of this letter is being posted on both sites. I have posted an invitation for people to show you their support (or lack thereof) of this letter. I have no idea how many letters you will receive for the reasons stated in that post. A copy of that post is enclosed for your convenience as attachment B.

I think there has been an extremely consistent negative opinion held amongst the people posting at both sites concerning the actions of the individuals of CS. The strength of that negativity varies, but tends to be rather strong. I find my own opinion is strongly negative.

I see little purpose in looking for new "evidence" about the dealings of CS as I think there is an abundance of evidence already. As such, I will not pose many of the questions to you that have been suggested to me. If, however, you feel you and your organization are being misjudged and you would like to open the dialogue more deeply, I would entertain that notion.

The questions for you concern any illness or health issues prior to Peny's death. It is the general consensus that Peny may have been ill for a long period before her death. Suspicious facts include:

* The sudden, uncharacteristic disappearance of Peny from your forum. This happened right before a political election that was obviously of great concern to her.
* The rumor from a well-placed source that there was an active effort to try to heal Peny.
* The fact that you suddenly cancelled all out-of-town trips.
* Many people commenting on how Peny's appearance at the Millennium Event indicated possible illness.

My guess is that there was a cover-up on CS's behalf to hide the fact that Peny was ill. My further guess is that the intention may have been to prevent people from being unduly alarmed, as there was the feeling that she would be healed with the help of Lazaris and the group's healing. Whether the intentions were positive or not, I think the honest answering to these questions is important in the further evaluation of Lazaris.

The questions follow:

1) Was there any type of cover-up of illness? If so, please explain fully and feel free to skip to question #5.

2) You have explained before that Peny's disappearance from the forum was due to her being engaged in other projects. What exactly were these projects that required such extreme attention?

3) Your cancellation of out-of-town trips caused many people financial and other hardships. Generally, this type of behavior would not be acceptable by most businesses without a valid excuse. The fact that you create your own reality and were tired of travelling isn't an acceptable excuse in most people's eyes. Illness is a valid excuse to most. Were there any other excuses than the ones you stated in the flyer? If so, please elaborate.

4) Can you state categorically that you had no inclination that Peny had any health problems or illnesses before her death? Please elaborate fully if there were any inclinations.

5) Was there any effort from anyone close to Peny, from anyone in CS, and/or from Lazaris to try to heal Peny of any illness or condition? If so, please elaborate.

After you have answered these questions, I would like to ask Lazaris a series of questions. To be more efficient and elegant, I would like two other people to participate with me in this process. One would be more doubting of Lazaris and one would be more believing in Lazaris. Ideally, there would be a series of question and answer sessions that would be spaced out by at least a couple of hours so that we can have time to formulate new questions that arise as a result of the answers from the previous session. I would like to have 5 sessions. I will be willing to pay what was your going rate for personal consultations. I respectfully ask that you pass this request by Lazaris and get an answer directly from him.

Many, but not all, of us have come to the conclusion that Lazaris is to varying degrees not who he says he is. While the phenomena may still remain important even if his description is inaccurate, I think it is critical that we know exactly who we are talking to. I have heard often about the bridge of belief and how Lazaris can never be "proved". I agree, but I still have a series of questions regarding inconsistencies in Lazaris's description of who he is and how he communicates.

There are a multitude of other questions for Lazaris that are of interest.

Jach, I feel that both you and Lazaris have a responsibility to engage in a dialogue. Many feel that they have been betrayed and hurt by their involvement. While others do not feel such hurt and betrayal, I feel they are still entitled to some answers.

Lazaris has always told us to ask and question. I have now formally made my request. The ball is in your court.

Sincerely yours,

Craig

PS: I ask that my last name, street address, email address and telephone number be kept private.

[This message has been edited by Admin5 (edited 11-01-2001).]

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Jade
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posted 09-06-2001 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig,
quote:
I assumed you were kidding about the address.

That is this address I used when Isis Rising was selling my work -- I stopped doing business with them earlier this year. I know, "Peny Lane" threw you.

Jade

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Craig
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posted 09-06-2001 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Craig     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Jade,

I looked it up using Yahoo maps and they never heard of it. Perhaps it is a special name they paid the post office to recognize. Yuch! Anyway, no big deal since it turns out you can now track express mail stuff on the web. Thanks anyway.

Cheers, Craig

[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 09-06-2001).]

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Jade
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posted 09-07-2001 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Craig,
quote:
I looked it up using Yahoo maps and they never heard of it. Perhaps it is a special name they paid the post office to recognize.

Just for the record, it shows up on Excite's Map Finder -- very close to Disney Theme Park.

Jade

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