Don't let the dynamite fool you, this is more of a firecracker.

I've heard from a few people today, it seems the info will come in dribs and drabs.

Ok, It took awhile for anyone to post on the Forum about the event. Finally, Jach, or one of the Gang started a post to I guess, let people know that they could post. There is strong indication that something was said which has people holding a code of silence, but no report on what that might be. We can only guess due to how hard it is for people to share any info.

No reports of anyone standing up and asking questions, not during the intensive anyway. I can imagine it would have been a most intimidating prospect in front of 600 odd people. Bummer.

The next seminar is not sold out though, or the one after that........tick tick tick.

Jach reports that he was feeling frightened before walking into the seminar. No report on specifically why.

The posts from non Gangstas are largely about how honored they were to have been put in the outhouse, oops, I mean overflow room. It seems you don't have to be in the same room with Lazaris to feel Lazaris, but what a thrill they got when the Orb looked right at the camera at them!

Someone explain this to me please?

Jach is looking older and thinner. (surprise surprise) He had nothing to say on the deaths. Lazaris says he does not condone suicide, and that it is possible that Michaell was "in martyr" (wouldn't the Orb know?) but he and Peny are dancing in realms no one could ever imagine, doing work that will have HUGE and ENORMOUS impact on our FUTURES!! I'm so relieved to hear it.

There is a bit more, not much. I'll post it later, I'm still trying to get some of the blanks filled in.

Of course the intensive was INCREDIBLE and everyone is now home building some magic boxes or some other kind of make work.

What I think is INCREDIBLE is how hard it is to squeak a bit of information out of anyone.

I also heard a few very upsetting personal anecdotes today, all I can say is there is more anger and hurt going on than a lot of people might realize.

My heart is feeling very heavy today. There have been a lot of tears.

I truly wish I knew the answer to healing this really painful and confusing situation.
I know that being here, posting or reading along, goes a long way toward that, for me, and others.

This isn't a commercial, but I want everyone to know how important this site is to a lot of people. I can't tell you how valuable the input here is, especially for people who started coming apart after the deaths.

There is something very powerful about the process of "witnessing", especially "sympathetic witnessing".

This work that Craig did is amazing. It's really appreciated Craig, it matters more than you know.

Katie

quote:

---

but he and Peny are dancing in realms no one could ever imagine, doing work that will have HUGE and ENORMOUS impact on our FUTURES!! I'm so relieved to hear it.

---

Me too. Otherwise I might be thinking that I have to create my own reality.

I too am very curious about the intensive, and what people are thinking and experiencing. I, for one, could have cared less about Peny, Michall, and even Jach, for that matter, for a long time, even while I was still really into Lazaris. However, I was always aware that they were actually in control.

Whew. I just had a weird rush of -- recognition? -- or something, as I wrote that. Of how really unpleasant this organization has been for how long, with the supposed message of deep love and spirituality. I pictured Peny and Michaell, and what denial I was in, to think as highly as I did of Lazaris.

I just read another thread, I forget which one, where Peny was quoted as saying that she had always had a soft spot for gay men. That really blows my mind. How incredibly condescending that is, apart from everything else. YIKES!! Not that we are dealing in stereotypes, or pop=culture foolishness, or tabloid newspaper mentality, or anything. Unbelievably offenseive, really. The disrepect and inappropriateness of these people and that crappy forum just knows no bounds. What does any of this have to do with love and spirituality?

I notice, Katie, that you have been really vulnerable, on several different threads, including this one, lately. I was really struck by your discussion of the abuse you suffered, and how Chris has been a trigger for you around that energy.

When you spoke of having a heavy heart, I realized that I have been finding out for myself how much grief there really is to deal with. I have found myself a bit immobilized of late, even though I have a tremendous amount of things I have to get done. It has been scary, but I am also realizing that I need to heal, and give myself the space to do that. I usually don't -- I usually say, oh, I'm a metaphysician, I should be able to do a meditation and move on. I am finally realizing that I have been seriously manipulated for a long time, in a kind of peculiar situation that I have only recently gotten away from. It is humiliating (to myself) to admit that, but I am getting used to it.

I agree with you that this site is really important. As much as I enjoy reading and posting here, and getting to know folks better, I don't think I have given enough thought to how much I appreciate being able to read here, and think, and gather my thoughts to post, or just be affected and impacted by what people have to say.

Your courage, Katie, has inpired me to realize that I am still in a lot of pain, which I don't like to admit. Being here on CF is part of what keeps it from being stagnant -- part of what actually is keeping me moving and healing.

So, in all sincerity, I am thinking of you with love and healing energy, and saying thank you for so much that is great about this site, and about freedom and communciation. I agree that the witnessing is very powerful -- I would like to know more about what people are saying.

I wonder what people who have been to the seminar are feeling. I hope you are right in what you say that a lot of people are really shaken up and questioning. Hope we get to find out.

quote:

---

I too am very curious about the intensive, and what people are thinking and experiencing. I, for one, could have cared less about Peny, Michall, and even Jach, for that matter, for a long time, even while I was still really into Lazaris. However, I was always aware that they were actually in control.

---

I wonder who actually was in control there? Can an out of control control freak control? And who is in control now? I hope someone remembers to feed the Golden Goose.

quote:

---

Whew. I just had a weird rush of -- recognition? -- or something, as I wrote that. Of how really unpleasant this organization has been for how long, with the supposed message of deep love and spirituality. I pictured Peny and Michaell, and what denial I was in, to think as highly as I did of Lazaris.

---

Today seems to be one of cartharsis and new awakenings. It's interesting.

quote:

---

I just read another thread, I forget which one, where Peny was quoted as saying that she had always had a soft spot for gay men. That really blows my mind. How incredibly condescending that is, apart from everything else. YIKES!! Not that we are dealing in stereotypes, or pop=culture foolishness, or tabloid newspaper mentality, or anything. Unbelievably offenseive, really.

---

Yes, unbelievably offensive. As if you can lump all gay men or any group together for that matter. Would she have had the nerve to say she always had a soft spot for blacks? Anyone with a cherry pit for a brain would pick up the racism in a comment like that. But, don't forget, one of Peny's heroes was Tammy Faye. Tackiness R Us. Peny may have lived in a mansion, but she had the mentality of trailer trash.

quote:

---

The disrepect and inappropriateness of these people and that crappy forum just knows no bounds. What does any of this have to do with love and spirituality?

---

Not anything that I can determine. I've been realizing that it's all just mental gymastics, and more anti-spiritual than anything else. Peny is a testament to that.

Someone on the Lazaris Lite board wrote a big list of all the wonderful changes the L materials have opened her/him to. It is like a laundry list of nonsense:

"The sentences that opened doors,
the aha's,
the lifting of shame,
the healing of the inner child,
the letting go of martyr, victim,
the moving into our own power,
the new insights,
the greater understandings,
the deeper self respect,
the healing of our dark law, the experiencing of other planes,
the succinctness of statements that resonated deep within
the understanding of intimacy and it's various stages
understanding the difference between judgement and discernment"

and then asking "what difference does it make if it's a cult?" What the hell do all those phrases mean anyway? Talk about understanding discernment or self-respect? It gives me a headache reading crap like that, but a few years ago, I was spewing the same lukewarm pablum. It is disgusting to realize that.

Based on what the teachings say, if she/he has accomplished all these feats of consciousness, she/he should be manifesting spectacular miracles and magic. This is the fundamental issue that is continuously ignored. It's all fine and good to believe that you've had all this great healing and growth, but show us the money. Where is it showing in your life?
It sure as hell didn't show in Peny's, and we still have heard no stories of spectacular manifestations of miracles and magic.

In fact, someone said today that they have noticed that since stopping the reality creation techniques their life has been evolving even better and more successfully. Ted and I are having the same experience.

Believing that any of that stuff really happened, or even that some of it means anything is so indicative of cult think to me. What is the point of it all if nothing in our lives changes significantly, or if our successes are things like finding a cool parking space, or having our parrot learn a new word?

quote:

---

I notice, Katie, that you have been really vulnerable, on several different threads, including this one, lately. I was really struck by your discussion of the abuse you suffered, and how Chris has been a trigger for you around that energy.

---

Yes, I'm digging deeper, and coming up with some pretty raw stuff.

quote:

---

When you spoke of having a heavy heart, I realized that I have been finding out for myself how much grief there really is to deal with.

---

quote:

---

I have found myself a bit immobilized of late, even though I have a tremendous amount of things I have to get done. It has been scary, but I am also realizing that I need to heal, and give myself the space to do that.

---

Absolutely! We don't harp on and on about this cult issue for fun. People leaving cults experience a range of emotions and reactions, and it's good to be aware that it will happen, and why it is happening. I know that I've also realized more of the impact over the past few days, and hence the new wave of emotion.

quote:

---

I usually don't -- I usually say, oh, I'm a metaphysician, I should be able to do a meditation and move on.

---

quote:

---

I am finally realizing that I have been seriously manipulated for a long time, in a kind of peculiar situation that I have only recently gotten away from. It is humiliating (to myself) to admit that, but I am getting used to it.

---

quote:

---

I agree with you that this site is really important. As much as I enjoy reading and posting here, and getting to know folks better, I don't think I have given enough thought to how much I appreciate being able to read here, and think, and gather my thoughts to post, or just be affected and impacted by what people have to say.

---

That's the big benefit for me too. We are allowed to think here, even in the face of the verbal and impassioned few who have come here hoping to lull us back into our mindless trances. Misery loves company I guess.

quote:

---

Your courage, Katie, has inpired me to realize that I am still in a lot of pain, which I don't like to admit. Being here on CF is part of what keeps it from being stagnant -- part of what actually is keeping me moving and healing.

---

If I have courage, it is the courage to think. After so many years of being trained not to think, the whole time believing that I was thinking the deepest of thoughts, it is a glorious feeling to break out of that controlled environment, and think and speak, and speak and think!!! Maybe I'm being vulnerable, and maybe not, because when this site started to get busy, I made a very strong decision to remember what I'm here for, which is to speak my mind, and hear what others have to say, not to gain approval, or manipulate people to believe I'm something I'm not. What you "see" is what you get, and this isn't about others opinion of me. So, in a sense,
I am free of a lot of the worries that posers have. I really care a lot about the people posting here, but I don't have a need for anyone's approval. It's always nice to have it though, I will admit, so thank you for your kind and affectionate words.

quote:

---

So, in all sincerity, I am thinking of you with love and healing energy, and saying thank you for so much that is great about this site, and about freedom and communciation. I agree that the witnessing is very powerful -- I would like to know more about what people are saying.

---

Thank you, and it is definitely felt, appreciated and returned.

You are most welcome for this site, and thank you for your very significant contribution and witnessing. It does matter very much, and I share your interest in hearing what others have to say, especially about the recent intensive. I know there are lots and lots of "cult alarms" that went off there, I especially wonder who caught them and is willing to share that.

Love to you too!

Katie

You wrote:

Someone on the Lazaris Lite board wrote a big list of all the wonderful changes the L materials have opened her/him to. It is like a laundry list of nonsense:

"The sentences that opened doors,
the aha's,
the lifting of shame,
the healing of the inner child,
the letting go of martyr, victim,
the moving into our own power,
the new insights,
the greater understandings,
the deeper self respect,
the healing of our dark law, the experiencing of other planes,
the succinctness of statements that resonated deep within
the understanding of intimacy and it's various stages
understanding the difference between judgement and discernment"

and then asking "what difference does it make if it's a cult?"

Think they'd let me post this?

the death sentences that opened doors,
the uh-ohs,
the shifting of shame,
the endless healing of the inner child,
the piling on of martyr, victim,
the moving away from our own power

the few insights,
the greater misunderstandings,
the slow seep of self respect,
the morbid feeling of a dark law, the disappearing into other planes,
the succinctness of stolen statements that resonate as deep;
with no understanding of spiritual legitimacy and what it engages,
the difference between judgement and discernment is lost--but then,
what difference does any of this make when in a cult?

hmm, guess not.

flo

You wrote:

quote:

---

...but he and Peny are dancing in realms no one could ever imagine...

---

I did imagine those realms one night after eating a double pepperoni and pickle pizza before going to bed. Weren't those realms depicted in the movie Eraserhead?

You wrote:

quote:

---

...doing work that will have HUGE and ENORMOUS impact on our FUTURES

---

Not if I can help it.

I think you could post that on the Lazaris Lite board. The rules are more about not having personal feuds. My critical posts about Lazaris' remarks concerning people's alleged "mapmaker" status were not deleted. They don't demand that people believe in or like Lazaris.

It's good to hear from you again

It has yet to be determined exactly what is acceptable on that board and what is not.

I think it would be worth a try, assuming there is any purpose besides gratifying your sense of humor.

It might be fun to see how long the hot heads can read information which disturbs them before someone pops a cork and gets their post censored.

Who knows, maybe Helena is on to something. So far even Tim is writing lucidly there. Well, lucid, as in his sentences have subjects and objects and are properly punctuated.

Personally, I find the board to be generally cotton candy. It's pastel,sweet and sugary, but it disappears when you try to sink your teeth into it and if you keep trying to eat it, you will get a tummy ache. It also kinda leaves a weird sticky residue.

I do like your list a lot better, on that I can find something to chew on and digest.

[[[I just read another thread, I forget which one, where Peny was quoted as saying that she had always had a soft spot for gay men. That really blows my mind. How incredibly condescending that is, apart from everything else. YIKES!! Not that we are dealing in stereotypes, or pop=culture foolishness, or tabloid newspaper mentality, or anything. Unbelievably offenseive, really. The disrepect and inappropriateness of these people and that crappy forum just knows no bounds. What does any of this have to do with love and spirituality?]]]

I have to run, but I am the one who referred to Peny having said that and you could even have verified it but I hear that all the posts from the Forum Storm have been removed in order to appease the Queen. Whatever the reason, the posts are no longer in the archives.

It is a very pathetic way to justify very bad behavior. It was one reason I never could figure out why Xtal Man was so interested in hanging around being someone's "project."

Pippa

I'm on the run too.

Maybe he stuck around for all the expensive gifts, and special status he got?

Although, I must admit, sometimes co-dependencies really don't seem to make much sense.

I would dearly love to hear Jach or one of the gangstas try to explain to us how this relationship was not yet another world class co-dependency.

Thanks for writing.

Katie

Here's a quicky.

I've heard that Lazaris said that Peny was an impetuous person, so one night she just decided to split the physical, and that's why she died.

That was the longest impetuous moment in history. It is known that Peny was ill for at least 6 months prior to her death. She was reportedly not moving too well at the Millennium celebration.

Give us a break Bizarris.

I've heard this story from several sources, does anyone dispute it?

This is why FACTUAL information is so important. Important for us to know, and important for Jach to hide. The facts will tell us how impeccable a source Jachzaris is.

As to those of you who don't care: http://www.general-pictures.com/lazaris/index.htm

I personally prefer to do my "co-creating" with people and entities who don't insult me by lying.

Katie

What an obviously transparent lie and insult to our intelligence!!!!

I'm sorry, Lazaris, as long as we're into lying, I could've come up with a hell of a lot better story than that. It would not only have everyone in tears, but it would also have served to squelch us skeptics. Thanks for peeling away one of the few layers of doubt I have remaining.

Cheers, Craig

I too heard that Lazaris said at the intensive that Peny did NOT die of some illness, but merely left her body one night during sleep, and found it so glorious that she decided in an instant not to return, or something to that effect.

I find this whole thing pretty disturbing, to say the least...

Is anyone willing to step forward and confirm or substantiate with some hard facts that Peny was indeed ill? If she wasn't, then how do we account for her obvious absence from the forum beginning late last year?

How long can they keep a lid on this thing without it unravelling?

Spiritwalker9

Jach must have laid awake a few nights figuring out that one.

Maybe Michaell was seized by a fit of impetuousness as well. Just happened to have the old giggle gas cannister handy. There's synchronicity for ya.

On the Lite board, it's reported that the coroner's report said that P died of "natural causes", as if that eliminates disease. I believe that only eliminates accidents and foul play. But not impetuousness. Got to check on this.

Also some of this is "does not compute" o'er yon. Having experienced no computo for several years, I empathize with the dilema.

Jade

You said: Jach must have laid awake a few nights figuring out that one.

Doesn't it almost have the tone of a bumbling parent trying to console a young child about the death of someone? Is this a foreshadowing of the type of wisdom that is going to be spewing out of Lazaris's mouth in the future?

You said: Maybe Michaell was seized by a fit of impetuousness as well. Just happened to have the old giggle gas cannister handy. There's synchronicity for ya.

What a chuckle I got out of that! In addition to the giggle gas, what's the deal with the "sacred covenant"? Along with all the other bull surrounding the covenant, I find it improbable that three middle-aged people with such an inside track to longevity would consider a need for such a covenant. Even if you accept the fact that Peny and Michaell want to hold hands every second from here to eternity, why would Jach feel a need to be part of this deal? Maybe his deep love for Peny is FINALLY growing a little thin. Or maybe that statement was just a little P.R. stunt designed to trigger gratitude for the oh so many sacrifices Jach has made.

We have the hearsay reports that the group was trying to heal her.

Let's not forget that Jach cancelled the seminars on the West Coast. My opinion is that this was done to be with Peny as the group tried to heal her. It is so out of character for C:S to withdraw from any activity that would result in a loosing $$$. As I've said before, no business in their right mind would attempt to pull off such a stunt without a damn good reason.

It all seems to have a certain "synergy" of evidence:

* No word from Peny on the forum from October through her death.
* The cancelling of West Coast seminars.
* The mere existence of a sacred covenant.
* The hearsay that the group was try to heal her.
* Her apparent difficulty moving at the Millennium celebration.
* The availability of giggle gas right after her death.

Cheers, Craig

So the rest of the work is already done. All that's left is healing the alliances which were broken as a result of projecting onto the Grand Orb the relationships we could have had with our True Allies - ourselves, our Souls, and God. Oh, that's not what they meant was it? Must be my negative-ego talking. But it can't be, because that work is done... Oh, I'm so confused! Uh oh, martyr...

So how come, if the rest of the work has been done, there is an intensive scheduled for late August with the title Global Magic: The Next Level of The Great Work? How much you wanna bet there will be more "enemies" to deal with?

Cheers, Ted

"Soft landing?" Stanky landing is more like it. Work is almost all done, sure Jach.

Jade

"Impetious -- SPONTANIOUS departure during sleep"?!

Jachzaris -- permit me to kick you HARD in the IMO shallow Gemini *mindless* paniced coverup -- you assh*le!

And I quote Jachass's post death / suicide mass email directly: "Peny and Michaell said their final physical goodbyes before..."

How the Florida flim flam F%#! could Peny have spontaniously -- "impetuiously" decided to suddenly "depart" one night during "healthful" sleep -- AND say her "final physical goodbyes" -- BEFORE HAND?!

Jachzaris -- you IMO shallow thought paniced rodent -- CHECK your IMO *fatally flawed* flim flam "logic" --

You CANNOT have it both ways -- which IS it *really* o'guru? Impetious departure during sleep -- or final physical goodbyes to Michaell -- *beforehand*?

What a IMO lying *mentally lazy* careless flim flam SCUMBAG!

Steve

You wrote:

"I think it would be worth a try, assuming there is any purpose besides gratifying your sense of humor."

Less comic, more creep factor, to me--the slight verbal shifts needed to move that list out of the realm of "oh, the wonder of it all!" into something far less benign creeps me out--as if the tipping point into awareness is just a matter of a few extra adjectives and nouns, a slight rewording of what you're absolutely convinced is writ in stone before your eyes.

I'm not much pleased with Christianity, but I don't think it'd be as easy to play word games with the insights of the Magdalene or those who worked with humanitarians like Schweitzer, etc. The machinations of Con Syn aside, to me there's something in the material (contradictions and baroque concepts, for one) that lends itself to being discarded as so much verbiage when doubt reaches critical mass.

I'd be interested in knowing what the tipping point was for the posters here (any who care to reveal it, of course) what was the moment when you moved from "aha" to "uh oh"?

flo

You wrote:

"It's good to hear from you again :)"

Thanks, Ted--it's nice to have enough time on my hands for once to post as well as read. :)

flo

I was never involved with any of the C:S forums and never heard anything negative about C:S or Peny. As I rarely got involved with other people attending the seminars, I was never privy to any gossip.

Lazaris earned my trust fairly early on (in the late 80s). He never gave me any reason to doubt him. Any questions I had with the material I always chalked up to me not being evolved enough to see the big picture that Lazaris did.

I haven't attended seminars in at least five years so I was shielded from a lot of what I understand is some pretty "wacky" material.

The very first inkling I got that something was wrong was when I opened the mailing from C:S announcing Peny's death. I got a sick feeling, and for the first time did a lot of questioning. However, the bottom line was that I did not change my feelings about Lazaris, although this was the first "crack" in my egg of belief. I was half-heartedly able to explain Peny's death by thinking that maybe it was time for Peny to move on.

Then I stumbled upon the CF site a couple of weeks ago. Within a couple of hours of reading, I had the "uh oh" experience. Since then, my opinions have been refined, but not significantly changed.

I get the impression that I am in the minority of posters here in that I was so shielded from the early negativity. I think in many respects this made it easier to have the "uh oh" experience quickly.

Cheers, Craig

Even though I have pretty much figured out for myself what parts of the material have some (IMO plagiarized) merit, and which parts are complete bull, I still catch myself having some unwelcomed thoughts or ideas that I got from the Orb, even hearing that odious voice. Patience -- 14 years isn't going away in a flash.

Craig said,

quote:

---

Lazaris earned my trust fairly early on (in the late 80s). He never gave me any reason to doubt him.

---

The first clue I overlooked (starting in '86) was "Lazaris"s" lavish praise of Peny, and her relationship with Jach. That first misshapen piece of the puzzle grew progressively bigger and more disturbing over the years, until finally her early death exploded the whole puzzle for many.

My second clue was the Tradevest promotion, also in'86. Why would the Orb be so concerned about the financial security of "metaphysicians" in their old age? And with such a prosaic and questionable type of financial venture. (Hey, he could have said buy Microsoft and hang onto it for a few years.)

Also from Craig,

quote:

---

Any questions I had with the material I always chalked up to me not being evolved enough to see the big picture that Lazaris did.

---

I did the same thing with the material -- always feeling that I was the reason I wasn't getting the fantsatic results he said would occur from working with the material.

Finally, my brief but wretched experience on the forum in'97 was a screaming "whisper", but I continued involvement with "Lazaris" inspite of what I experienced and witnessed on the forum. But after that I had very uncomfortable feelings about how Peny, Jach and their spiritual thugs behavior didn't jibe with L and the teaching.

I had those mixed, confused feelings for so long, it was a miracle when I found CF and started getting a fuller, clearer picture of the Orb and Con:Sin. To briefly summarize what I posted in Feb., I asked for resolution of those feelings just before Christmas, while I was making a special order piece to be given to Peny. I "accidentally" found CF on Jan. 8. In other words, I was very ready to know the truth. It had not occurred to me that the Orb is a fraud. But once I had more information to consider, that is the only thing that made the whole picture make sense.

Jade

You wrote,

"I saw a post By Lynn Daniluk about her friend and the realization they had come to. And how unbelievably painful it is. I conquer, it’s really sucks.
I hope things go well for you and yours Lynn. I mean that from my heart."

Thank you IMO Life here, post Lazaris is getting better and better every day. Like Jade said... 14 years...well in our case 12 years can not just disappear.

It is an amazing process taking apart a belief system and reconstructing it to be self-empowering!

Lynn

Great thread and information going here.

Over the years I had many disquieting "uh ohs" that I pushed down. I gave myself shit for my recurring doubts and questions, much angst about it. One of the things that pushed me over the edge, or closer to it anyway was when the info about the Merlin/ Arthur seminar came out. In particular the line about the current being "the only current that can take us all the way home". Since when are there "onlys" in this spirirual path. It reminded me of a christian dogma. I remember Jach saying he talked over whether to include that line in the flyer with P & M and they said well it's true so include it. This is a contradiction to everything I had heard Lazaris say previously and quite frankly it seemed like a way to insure large attendance at those seminars. A sales technique basically. Very important hooey!

I really appreciate people sharing their moments of awakening. It's affirming.

My mind is still spinning, I don't have all my answers yet. But I'm OK with that, no more angst and that feels good. I'm willing to give myself the time to sort through my thoughts and feelings until I come to the resolution that feels right for me.

Thanks Jade for your wonderful humor. The ability to keep on laughing is a great help in all this.

Cheers Fools!

You wrote,

"One of the things that pushed me over the edge, or closer to it anyway was when the info about the Merlin/ Arthur seminar came out. In particular the line about the current being "the only current that can take us all the way home". Since when are there "onlys" in this spirirual path."

That one was a HUGE for me as well. It just seemed way too out there and very disturbing. It hit me the same way as when Jach told me that I had "Insulted Lazaris" during our upset on the Forum. It went against everything I understood Lazaris to be about.

I didn't get into that material very much and you can correct me if I am wrong but it appeared to be aligned with a patriarchal system of spirituality. Being a big fan of the book The Mists of Avalon (A feminist perspective on the Arthurian legion) I not really into the traditional version of the story. If it really is the 'only' way home, I happy to stay 'lost' in the 'Mists'.

Blessed Be, Lynn

quote:

---

I still catch myself having some
unwelcomed thoughts or ideas that I got from the Orb, even hearing that odious voice.

---

Like tonight, I was having a lovely late night drive through a forest after visiting a friend's waterside cabin and remembered this,
"We'll never let you down." AHRG!!!

We'll ain't that some fine soundin', love bombin', trust seducin' trash talk.

And damn, I didn't get the Arthur, Merlin info. I haven't been to a seminar since my forum belly flop, and C:S didn't put it on tape. So inspite of map maker status, I missed the knight on the white horse current to HOOHME. And how many more wretched reincarnations to bear for the faux pas of not riding the skys of United to Orlando. This is really bad. Oh, I give up

Jade

PS.Does anyone have a fix on NLP? I'm wondering if it came into play on tapes and in seminars.

I'm struck by the similiarity of our mutual experience in questioning the Orb. I think every one of us has mentioned a sense of relief and freedom at some point during this process of exploration.

That we all seem to have an "uh oh" moment speaks to me that there has always been something wrong, lurking not too far from the surface. I think that is the way with false beliefs, because I very much believe that we all have a very accurate "truth-o-meter". Maybe part of the sense of relief is the silencing of that constant alarm going off in the background.

Ted and I sat in one of the old cathedrals yesterday, surrounded by the magnificence as we attended the Evening Song service to the stirring strains of the choir, organ, and eloquent recitation of the biblical verses. By chance it was the Feast of the Transfiguration of Christ. There's a mystery to ponder.

It was hard not to be moved by the power and strength of tradition, yet, I know the political history of the building of these massive churches, what their purpose was, and the impact they had on the world.

Beneath the magnificent main alter of this cathedral is an ancient holy well, deliberately buried beneath this mind boggling feat of human engineering. For all its beauty, magnificence, and heritage, I could not ignore the fact that it's very existance is a testament to a long history of chauvanism and abuse. All the resources of the times were employed to build these icons, all out of a drive for control and power, and at the great expense of the citizens of the times.

I believe it is time for a new "religion", based on faith in the individual, rather than faith in something beyond, a spirituality based in the moment, rather than the past or future.

As I sat mezmerized through this service that is part of a centuries old tradition, I was struck with the thought that nothing really exists except in the moment. I knew I was creating a memory that would remain with me, but at the same time, knowing that the experience is "NOW".

I think all this reaching for the future, building to become more "THEN" is b.s.

It seems to me that humankind has long been had by religious belief and dogma. It is all built in the past and reaches for the future, creating a diversion, preventing us from being and responding NOW.

This concept of "coming home" is just more of the same.

I believe we are home, and we're missing the event, living in memories and hopes rather than in our experience of the moment. How often do we allow that? I am realizing that I have spent my life being somewhere else than where I am.

I have to run off, but wanted to share those thoughts, and to say how moved and inspired I am by these recent posts.

Katie

You wrote,

"PS. Does anyone have a fix on NLP? I'm wondering if it came into play on tapes and in seminars."

The first (and last) time a good friend of mine listened to a Lazaris tape he said "Hey, he's pulled most of these visualization techniques from NLP!" LOL

The woman who I studied with for 10 years and introduced me to Lazaris, practiced and taught a system that completely incorporated NLP methods. That is why the Lazaris material fit so well into her practice. To be honest, I kinda thought everyone knew that Lazaris used NLP.

[[That one was a HUGE for me as well. It just seemed way too out there and very disturbing. It hit me the same way as when Jach told me that I had "Insulted Lazaris" during our upset on the Forum. It went against everything I understood Lazaris to be about. ]]

I am sorry to be so incredulous, but Jach actually said this to you? That is so outrageous! Do you mind sharing the context? If you have already done so, please tell me where to find it in the archives.

During my own personal Forum Storm (or witch burning as I call it) Peny, Jach and the Gang took issue with something I wrote. It's a long story and I could send you a copy of the thread from the C:S Forum but what it came down to was Jach was angry and was trying to intimidate me into admitting what a lowly creature I was. Unfortunately I buckled under to most of it, taking all the shit on myself. (Yes, yes, I was a terrible, terrible person who is in negative ego, etc. etc.) At one point I don't think that Peny thought she was getting enough blood from me so Jach decide to pull out the big guns. He said and I quote...

"I am really angry that you insulted Lazaris and what he teaches..."

Like I said, this hit me like..."What the?!#@. Lazaris insulted?! Hold it here! How can a Being without an ego be insulted?" That was the end of the disscusion for me.

Well then the rest of the gang jump on the bandwagon and went on and on about how I had insulted Lazaris. I don't have copies of all the letters as it got quite sickening. I even had people writing me personal emails weeks later telling me to get out of negative ego and admit I had insulted Lazaris and his work.

I would love to put a copy of the entire thread up here as an example of someone being trashed in the Forum but I have a feeling it would not be legal.

Unfortunately, it probably would be a breach to print the thread here. I think I remember it. Is it the one where you suggested that one tape or book contained the essense of the Lazaris Material? If that was it, I can understand them getting so upset - it could mess with their finances.

If Jach was pissed about you insulting Lazaris, imagine how he feels about this site. Someone on the LL site mentioned that Lazaris once said that they never got any bad press because they create their own reality and wouldn't allow it. I guess they stopped created their own reality. Or they're into self-punishment.

Interesting about the NLP info being "lifted" , just one more reality check on how NOT original anything outta jachasses mouth seems to have been.

Here's an interesting one for the log...

Kate Bush; CD- "The red shoes" great piece of work by a great artist (IMO):smile:

anyway, one of the tracks on that cd is an exact (musical) rendition of the "banish negativity" meditation!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Executed by her with MUCH more ENERGY, and Intensity!!!!!!!!!!

Kate Bush is celtic, and this is surrounding yourself with fire, then point in each of the four directions calling out a name of an angel, Micheal, Uriel, Gabrielle, Rafael.
anyway when I heard that song I flipped, I knew Kate does not follow Bizzarus, I just knew it..... so it musta been that Bizzarus had "lifted" a celtic post-pagan ritual.

my head was spinning, and when I mentioned it to Katie and Ted, we all came to some sort of cultified justification, to make it OK....

but each time I'd hear that song, I can't help but think that Jachass though he was soooooo smart, and NO-ONE would know he'd stolen that oh-so-cool ritual.