Very interesting! These ideas bring me back to the point you made in your initial 5-part document. There is a very good chance that Lazaris is real, not whom they say they are and just playing with us like some 'god' up on Mount Olympus!

I had a very intense time with one of my closest friends the other day about Lazaris. Ever since I found this site, we have been tearing this whole messing scene apart trying to make some sense of it. He knows the earlier Lazaris material like the back of his hand and uses it in his healing practice. He has felt Lazaris too intimately not to believe it is real. I understand that feeling only I for one did not feel comfortable 'blending' with it. He did.

So we sat in my tree house and had it out... We talked about all of the material that you covered in your document but still he was hooked on the intense connection and the love and how real it is to him and I said "Your right! I believe it is real! But what if this Being is opening you up and loving you up so that it can manipulate you?"

Well that hit like a ton of bricks.

And he snapped.

"Your right...I just got it," he said.

He is still processing it and the pain is unbelievable. But after a day or so he told me that he had an enormous sense of relief. A very humbling experience for both of us.

Cheers, Lynn

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I understand that feeling only I for one did not feel comfortable 'blending' with it.

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From the Seth book, The Nature of the Psyche,

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When a man's consciousness, for example, blended with that of a tree, those data became 'visual' for others to perceive. When a man's consciousness merged with an animal's, that blending became visual data also.

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IMO, the Seth books are the probable source for the Orb's version of "blending", but "Lazaris" perverted it into a potent love bombing technique -- more like a psychic bleeding.

How wonderful that your friend is setting himself free.

Jade

Thank you It has been a tremendous release for me and one of the reasons I have not been writing as much here. We have been busy deprogramming our systems!

I decided to start posting on the LL forum. In one of my posts, I referred to the story of Michaell being summoned by Lazaris to join C:S. The origin of that statement was questioned. I am 99.9% sure I heard that one myself at one of the seminars. Can anyone with first hand experience of hearing this from Lazaris please furnish details. Thanks.

[[[[So where are all of the healthy sexual teachings in the Lazaris material? This is a great power that most people misuse or use in a completely unconscious manner. It's is a huge topic and one that can not be ignored.]]]

I remember hearing someone tell me that Lazaris says there are three kinds of people: those who are serial in their relationships, even if their serial relationships are twenty years each; those who are monogomous, and those for whom sex is unnecessary.

He referred to Jach as one of those for whom sex is unnecessary. However, does anyone remember tha very strange conversation about sex where Peny said on the Forum that Michaell "gave" her a vasectomy for their wedding. I remember thinking that was nearly scandalous to announce to the public like that.

Meanwhile, I also know that she was perhaps a little obssessed with which people at seminars were getting sex and from whom. She also liked to make up little stories about people that were untrue but apparently very entertaining to her about people's sex lives.

Someone I know who has never been unfaithful was rumored by Peny to have been a rather hotsy little hound.

She was wrong.

PJ

I definitely heard or read that Lazaris suggested that Micheall join Jach and Peny in Florida, against their better judgement. As I recall, Jach or Peny related the story, not Lazaris, but I could be wrong. I think I heard or read it several places. It might be in one of the interview books...

Lazaris told the story of intervening in the Peny, Jach, Michaell marriage at the Millennium event. I've heard several versions but they are all essentially the same.

I also believe that Jach tells the story on one of the Manifesting tapes. I know I heard him tell it on a tape, and I'm pretty sure it was one of those.

You will find that facts are of little to no interest to the LL posters. They each have their own understanding of the L materials, and just might get quite angry with you if you seek to come to any factual understanding. We all create our own realities you see, so you create the one in which Lazaris might be a fraud, so that is your problem.

I wish you well on that site, I suspect you will find it to be an exercise in futility if you are seeking to provide factual information.

Check your facts at the door, Mac, and just put on a .

Thanks for the info!

I am actually looking for my thoughts to be challenged at the LL site. I certainly don't expect to sway any opinions. However, if my own thinking is clarified as a result, it will have proven useful.

I can forsee a point at which the cumulative frustration becomes overwhelming. At that point I will bow out.

On the issue of the Orb's health advice, much of it was unsolicited, not a result of L being asked as she implies.

Loved your closing question about what information it would take. That's a big one!

As for emotional reactions , the Lazaris Lite dance of denial is certainly based on emotion. Possibly bask burn.

[[[[Your questions about sex are most thought provoking. I think there are other areas where Lazaris also doesn't have a clue. The biggest that comes to mind is family. Of course, without sex, you don't have much of a family to worry about!]]]

I agree pretty much with this. Sigh. When I think about how stupid a lot of his advice on family is--for example, he did some tapes with some woman named "Beky" who is so annoying to listen to and mostly shallow--I get really, really sad and angry. My spouse and I made some decisions about our family directly due to things we heard Lazaris say. But, even though a lot of the Lazaris information I have used to heal my own relationship with my parents--shame, abuse, etc, I am not sure the "advice" my spouse and I have used in our own family now was not more than the twisted way Peny and Jach seem to view family, and thus, hurtful and damaging to our homelife.

Something I always noted, but chose to ignore (one thing of many) was how much it seemed to me the Gang, from Jach on down, viewed parenthood with condescension. One of the most disturbing things I ever heard about the whole slimy mess of Orlando is that Michaell left his daughter. While no one knows the reason why, and perhaps there is a good one, how can a person do that? I am sure, though, that whatever the reason, Peny would NOT have been a willing stepmother. Christ, I shudder at the thought of her being a mother at all.

[[[[Why do we have such a restrictive view on certain topics? Does Lazaris need to experience physicality through Peny and Jach to be able to comment on it? If so, are we all destined to become like Peny and Jach if we follow the material "good enough"?]]]

These are really great questions. I hope if Lazaris is real this is not so. Like you said in one of your posts on the other site, if so, then Lazaris has no right to present himself as knowing more than we do, bar none. He needs to give us the disclaimer and let us know he is limited by being intheir "set" to use his own terminology. But, then, if he experiences humanity through Jach and Peny, it would seem more likely that it is all not real, and just a break in Jach's psyche.

[[[[Are we all part of one huge experiment? That would be somewhat OK if Lazaris had the integrity to admit it. But he hasn't.]]]

Yeah, I have wondered that, too. Well, as my spouse said, if they planted all these weird ass things in me, I can't tell so they "got me." I too feel that there is nothing waiting to blow up in my consciousness, but how the hell would I know
since I can't tell anyway. As Lynn was saying, it has crossed my mind that if Lazaris is not just Jach wanting to keep Peny with the aphrodisiac of Lazaris, then what if Lazaris is real but not all that he says and he has been helping us heal, but with a sort of Dorian Gray extraction of which we are unaware? He has talked to us about how we are helping to bring about the new world, and that others in the universe were jealous of this, blah, blah, blah, but that the choice was given to us humans and that there was some influence on this decision. Really, what the hell does all that mean? Are we part of some grand experiment. There is a whole new meaning to the Great Work, the Grand Adventure Lazaris talks about if so.

It is when I think about this kind of stuff that I question my certitude of the actual help I received from Lazaris. Two seemingly unrelated things come to mind: one is that at the Millennium event, the climax music of the midnight meditation was the instrumental version of "My Heart Will Go On" from "Titanic." I thought this was creepy. Whose heart will go on? And where will the rest of the being be? Why are we letting a heart go on anyway? What else stopped?

And the other is that I can't recall ever meeting anyone who ever found Lazaris in a time of complete wonder and fun in his or her life. Maybe those people exist, but anyone I have ever talked to seem to have found Lazaris in their hour of darkness. Is this a weak time when we are easiest to manipulate?

These two things come together in my mind to pose the question: when Lazaris refers to "they" and "we" just how many different they's and we's are we talking about here and what the hell do they really want?

I don't want to get manic about this: most of the time I just realize that I am not ever going to trust Lazaris again and that I am moving on, but then other days I let myself go deeper into wondering if I can't trust lazaris now, what in the past should I reconsider?

And yet there is a lot of growth I gained from working with the materials and I haven't heard it as succinctly anywhere else.

Is it a needless excerise to wonder if I was somehow baited and switched? Or, not.

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I just realize that I am not ever going to trust Lazaris again and that I am moving on, but then other days I let myself go deeper into wondering if I can't trust lazaris now, what in the past should I reconsider?

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Easy, everything. Much as it might be nice to just move on, I think it is really important to reconsider all the whys, whats and hows of having been hooked into and staying with L and Con:Sin. This is exactly what they don't want you to do -- of course they'd rather have you move on without a glance backwards.
Also, for almost everyone who has realized that "Lazaris" and C:S are deceptive, manipulative and exploitative, it is necessary to go through an unhurried process of sorting through one's own thoughts and beliefs in order to decide what really is of value and true for you.

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And yet there is a lot of growth I gained from working with the materials and I haven't heard it as succinctly anywhere else.

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You probably would have grown anyway, one way or another Pippa John, since you had that intent. As for succinctness. I believe J/L synthesized others' material and added much more that he actually made up, having zero validity. And think of how many tapes he made repeating the same theme, like success. Maybe that initial synthesis was concise, but the rest is a wild goose chase.

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Something I always noted, but chose to ignore (one thing of many) was how much it seemed to me the Gang, from Jach on down, viewed parenthood with condescension.

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Good point. How fundamental to love, life, commitment, caring, and growth parenthood is. But the Orb focused us on negative energies we have with our parents, not us as parents or our children.

About "shame." He made that into something you can't be done with on your own -- need that "higher" self (buy tapes, book, attend workshops to find) at a minimum to be done with it. Who is to say that his definition and prescriptions on dealing with shame are even as good as John Bradshaw's or any other reputable therapist/philosopher?

The problem with children is that there is a huge temptation to spend money (and time) on them instead of seminars and crystals.

Jade

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I'm actually looking for my thoughts to be challenged at the LL site. I certainly don't expect to sway any opinions. However, if my own thinking is clarified as a result, it will have proven useful.

---

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I can forsee a point at which the cumulative frustration becomes overwhelming. At that point I will bow out.

---

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As for emotional reactions , the Lazaris Lite dance of denial is certainly based on emotion. Possibly bask burn.

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When I think about how stupid a lot of his advice on family is--for example, he did some tapes with some woman named "Beky" who is so annoying to listen to and mostly shallow--I get really, really sad and angry. My spouse and I made some decisions about our family directly due to things we heard Lazaris say.

---

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But, even though a lot of the Lazaris information I have used to heal my own relationship with my parents--shame, abuse, etc, I am not sure the "advice" my spouse and I have used in our own family now was not more than the twisted way Peny and Jach seem to view family, and thus, hurtful and damaging to our homelife.

---

quote:

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Something I always noted, but chose to ignore (one thing of many) was how much it seemed to me the Gang, from Jach on down, viewed parenthood with condescension.

---

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One of the most disturbing things I ever heard about the whole slimy mess of Orlando is that Michaell left his daughter. While no one knows the reason why, and perhaps there is a good one, how can a person do that? I am sure, though, that whatever the reason, Peny would NOT have been a willing stepmother. Christ, I shudder at the thought of her being a mother at all.

---

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But, then, if he experiences humanity through Jach and Peny, it would seem more likely that it is all not real, and just a break in Jach's psyche.

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Well, as my spouse said, if they planted all these weird ass things in me, I can't tell so they "got me." I too feel that there is nothing waiting to blow up in my consciousness, but how the hell would I know since I can't tell anyway.

---

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As Lynn was saying, it has crossed my mind that if Lazaris is not just Jach wanting to keep Peny with the aphrodisiac of Lazaris, then what if Lazaris is real but not all that he says and he has been helping us heal, but with a sort of Dorian Gray extraction of which we are unaware? He has talked to us about how we are helping to bring about the new world, and that others in the universe were jealous of this, blah, blah, blah, but that the choice was given to us humans and that there was some influence on this decision. Really, what the hell does all that mean? Are we part of some grand experiment. There is a whole new meaning to the Great Work, the Grand Adventure Lazaris talks about if so.

---

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It is when I think about this kind of stuff that I question my certitude of the actual help I received from Lazaris.

---

quote:

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Two seemingly unrelated things come to mind: one is that at the Millennium event, the climax music of the midnight meditation was the instrumental version of "My Heart Will Go On" from "Titanic." I thought this was creepy. Whose heart will go on? And where will the rest of the being be? Why are we letting a heart go on anyway? What else stopped?

---

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And the other is that I can't recall ever meeting anyone who ever found Lazaris in a time of complete wonder and fun in his or her life. Maybe those people exist, but anyone I have ever talked to seem to have found Lazaris in their hour of darkness. Is this a weak time when we are easiest to manipulate?

---

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I don't want to get manic about this: most of the time I just realize that I am not ever going to trust Lazaris again and that I am moving on, but then other days I let myself go deeper into wondering if I can't trust lazaris now, what in the past should I reconsider?

---

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And yet there is a lot of growth I gained from working with the materials and I haven't heard it as succinctly anywhere else.

---

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Is it a needless excerise to wonder if I was somehow baited and switched? Or, not.

---

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The problem with children is that there is a huge temptation to spend money (and time) on them instead of seminars and crystals.

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Well that hit like a ton of bricks.
And he snapped.
"Your right...I just got it," he said.
He is still processing it and the pain is unbelievable. But after a day or so he told me that he had an enormous sense of relief. A very humbling experience for both of us.

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On the path of conversion! LOL. I am kidding really.

Another two 'friends' have left the building. They too can not justify the bullshit any longer.

I am breathing easier now that my 'family' is feeling clearer.

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I am breathing easier now that my 'family' is feeling clearer.

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That's wonderful Lynn. I can imagine the happiness and relief you are feeling with more loved ones freeing their minds.

Jade