Is there one person who is willing to speak up at the upcoming Bizzarus event?

That is all it takes, just one voice.

No one knows better than me and Ted how powerful and gratifying it can be to stand up
from a place of self-respect and desire to know and ask a "taboo" question, or make a clear statement of dissent.

This game has gone of for far too long. Con:Sin has left human carnage in it's path, that is factual, not sour grapes or speculations. Again, probably no one other than those intimate with that creepy crowd know that better than me and Ted, because we have been hearing the stories told to us one by one for over a year now.

Everyone here has questions, even the true believers or you wouldn't be here.

This is an opportunity to post those questions for the hopeful eventuality that there is ONE VOICE amongst us which is willing and concerned enough to speak up and ask those questions.

It is my belief that this would be the act of a true hero, if done with strength and clarity that all who have been put under the ether by Jachzaris have a right to know, and an obligation to themselves to ask, out of self-respect.

I know that any such act would be officially deemed total martyrhood and would be met by some with contempt, anger, and yes, even hatred.

I sincerely hope that there is at least ONE VOICE amongst us who is stronger than that, and who can keep those kind of responses in perspective.

Also, I hope the stellar note takers will be very busy and that every word will be recorded and shared.

I hold great hope.

I will NEVER forget the man who stood up to Peny infront of everyone at the second Lemuria week-long intensive in San Rafael, CA -- Summer 1987.

He was so centered and sure of not "his truth" but -- IMO THE Truth: that Peny was a loose cannon female chauvanist running that ballroom wallet vacuum. And rock steady in his firm demand for dollars back.

I hope that there is still that kind of heroism waiting in the wings to spring on Jachzaris.

This is indeed an information war -- and IMO only complete openness will win it for those on the side of integrity and justice.

Steve

Good words! Thank you.

Let's hope that at least ONE attendee agrees.

I strongly suspect that if ONE stands up, others will follow. This is a dam that's ready to break.

You are correct, this is an information war, and it's about time for Jach Purr-sell to deal with it.

My biggest concern is the hypnosis issue, but there are many more.

Why did Jach never mention his Silva Mind Control training? Did Jach study hypnosis as well?

Why did the Tradevest scam get perpetrated? Where was the timeless wisdom and unfailing insight of the Orb on that one?

Why are "friends of the Orb" discussed, degraded, demeaned, and judged for sport by the Con:Sinners?

Why weren't Forum members told that Peny and her nasty mouthed boyfriend had made-up, and were just as thick as ever after they were literally ordered to admit being co-dependent on this "terrible bully" and having enabled his "negative-ego" romp through the Forum?

What actually did Peny ever do with her life besides spend money like a drunken sailor and trash everyone around her.

What was the cause of Peny's death? Why did Jach lie about her illness?

Why was Michaell North encouraged to abandon his only child, and what is being done to provide for her? If nothing, why not? Why shouldn't she be compensated for the loss of her father?

What is the real cost of those "provenanced" crystals, and why are they marked up so heavily? Where do they really come from?

Are private consultation tapes made available for anyone else to listen to, have they ever been, by who, and why?

Why doesn't Lazaris know my name?

The list goes on. Maybe this is a good place and time for people to list their concerns and questions as incentive and inspiration for some heroic VOICE to phrase them during this heavily attended event.

If ONE stands up, I feel certain that others will follow. Not everyone is running down to Orlando next week out of a great desire to hear what new and exotic science fiction
story Jach has been working on.

Stand up Magicians! There is absolutely no reason not to, but many very serious and vital reasons to stand up.

There is nothing bad, wrong, or evil about wanting to know the answers to all our questions.

Isn't it about time to take them to the source instead of trying to find them by lurking around here, doing endless internet searches, trying to pick up a bit or piece of hearsay over lunch during an intensive?

Why shouldn't Jach, Lazaris, and the Con:Sin crew answer our questions? And what could possibly be wrong or bad about asking?

We constantly hear about not blaming the message because of the messenger.

Well, know you have both the alleged source of the message and the messenger right there.
Maybe Lazaris can explain why "they" have never addressed any of these questions.

This is one huge opportunity for a lot of people to get answers, and I believe without reservation that every single person who will be in attendance this weekend has asked themselves at least one, if not all of these questions at some time or another.

Speak with confidence,strength, grace, and eloquence, because you have the right to know, and by asking you will be doing a great service.

I challenge anyone to give one good reason that these questions should not be asked in public, and Jach and Lazaris be given the opportunity to answer the DIRECT questions, not provide some hypno-babble mind numbing,
circular responses which put blame and shame on anyone for thinking or asking.

Believers, take out your "2000 Year of Dominion" tape and have a listen before you set off for your trip to Orlando. Listen well, and stand up for all of us who won't be there, those who are, but especially for yourself.

Fools, post your questions!! NO FEAR!!!

Katie

"Lazaris" spoke of the "lone, heroic Voice" at the Awakening Passions seminar in Atlanta in 1995. I think they also spoke about it on the tape of a similar name. The heroic voice is that of the muse, Caliope.

Perhaps the person who invokes Caliope's name in her email address will live up to it.

More questions:

What does Lazaris need to hear, via Jach's ears, during the crystal ceremony?

Does Lazaris speak any language other than English?

Why does C:S use such cheap, shoddy cassette tapes that break after a few listenings?

When can we expect to see the end of the many nemeses, adversaries, enemies, etceteras, that keep us from functioning as magicians?

How did Lazaris get Jach's permission to channel through him before they actually channeled? They claimed to have worked with Jach through several lifetimes to prepare him for this lifetime of channelling. How were they so sure that Jach and Peny would be together in this lifetime if they could have chosen from an infinite array of futures?

What specifically drew Lazaris to Peny? Just one example of how her "loving nature" manifested would do.

Why did a ball of light move down the aisle at an early seminar?

Whose brilliant idea was it to place yellow text on a blue background in the J&L forum?

Steve Hassan described an exit-counselling where the cult member saw his guru surrounded by light when he meditated. I have talked to people who have seen similar "signs" at charismatic Christian meetings.

To be honest your list of questions covers it for me. I would like to know the answer to all of those questions!

I just thought of some...

Katie you wrote on another thread...

"...we were privy to special information that resistance to it was just an indication of "negative-ego" or willing blindness. We were very special and enlightened you see."

I would like to know...

1) Why does Lazaris teach a system of hierarchy instead of equality?

He has been very clear from the beginning that Peny is a superior being and then led us to believe that we magicians are also superior beings that are being trained to save the planet with our energy work.

2) Would being included in this ordained group of magicians not lead to a very strong self-righteous belief system?

Not unlike all the other religions of the world!

3) Would being apart of the map-makers union not lead to an exclusionary relationship to the rest of the society?

Hmmm, let me see where does it say in the bible 'live in the world but not of it'?

4) How is it OK to believe a relatively small and special band of magicians are going to be the ones responsible for saving the planet?

Sounds like a pretty big Messiah Complex to me!

Yes, I agree, these are very good questions, especially since they are targeted not to the "messenger" who some people are willing to make vast allowances for, but to the message itself.

How could anyone deny that this is a hierarchal system that is being taught, or that it functions to make those "privy" to it feel very superior and special?

Actually, as I think about it, this whole "message/messenger bit is bogus anyway, because allegedly Lazaris is the messenger.

Another question I have is why hasn't Lazaris intervened in any of the behaviors by the Con:Sin gang that are universally agreed to be rotten?

Yes, it isn't only Jach who needs to be questioned, it is most certainly the Grand Orb himself.

I too am most grateful to not be invested in this screwed up belief system, or the people who are profiting from it.

A VERY powerful question to ask might well be asked aloud by ANYONE injured emotionally by Peny in the Con:Sin Online Forum:

"Lazaris -- if Peny was so immeasurably advanced spiritually -- WHY ON EARTH was she such an infantile *blood thirsty* monster in your namesake online forum?

And why did you allow her to carry on like that -- damaging so many people for so many years?"

Steve

Here's a quote from Seth that puts a completely different slant on spiritual awareness,

quote:

---

It is futile to question:"What is the difference between my psyche and my soul, my entity and my greater being? for all of these are terms used in an effort to express the greater portions of your own experience that you sense within yourself. Your use of language may make you impatient for definitions, however. Hopefully this book will allow you some intimate awareness, some definite experience, that will aquaint you with the nature of your own psyche, and then you will see that its reality escapes all definitions, defies all categorizing, shoves aside with exuberant creativity all attempts to wrap it in a neat package.

---

Also of interest, Seth describes himself as an aspect of Jane's psyche that broke into her consciousness because of her intense inner questioning of the nature of reality and the meaning of life. Quite different than because she was just so damn evolved and special.

For the list of questions, Why in the world did Pee live in a 27,000 square foot monster mansion in extremely $$pre$tige$$ conscious Palm Beach? Some spiritual quest.

Jade

Damn, I swear you are always 10 steps ahead of me on this icon quest!!!

These are very interesting words you post from Seth,who is claimed to be great pals with Lazaris. They raise another question, why if Lazaris is so cool with Seth do they tell different stories? It's interesting that the Orb has never taken on the Seth materials as he has the teachings of other channeled entities. Yet, we are seeing that upon evaluation, they are not both teaching the same "Truths". I guess Jach hoped no one would notice.

Here is another question. What exactly did Peny do with her life? What legacy did this most powerful of magicians leave, besides a suicided husband, an abandoned child, and a whole lot of impressive material possessions?

Inquiring minds do want to know, and I am really putting my energy into finding a way to get some answers.

Whoever you are out there reading along VOICE or VOICES, I hope you are getting it that you are facing a very important and significant opportunity.

To put these questions to Jach/Lazaris, face to face in public will be the ultimate challenge to the veracity of all the claims.

He/they will either be willing to answer them openly and honestly with no reservation or need to shame, or they will not.

If not, why not? If so, let's hear what they have to say.

There is nothing for a self contained person to lose by asking. Of course you will risk facing great negativity, but you will also mitigate the potential for worse and more.
Sometimes you have to pay a little to get a lot.

If Lazaris or Jach are who they claim to be, I cannot imagine that sincerely asked questions would not be respected and answered.

I hope and trust that this intensive will be the most important one to date, that it will be the one to provide resolution for the many questions and confusions that abound within this group.

This ones for you Jade!

Jade

I'm perfectly willing to stand up in the middle of a meditation to get the above mentioned questions, addressed,,,,and/or something more discreet,,,,whatever works!!

Could it be....S A P E N ???

Susan

The word on the street is that the intensive is sold out, so I don't think anyone can register at this point.

I'm feeling very confident that the high attendance at this event is not all about a big desire to hear all the newest and grooviest from Lazaris. This is about people wanting information about the issues raised here, and private questions and concerns that aren't. I've already heard from people who are going soley for that reason.

Of course we don't want anyone posting here about plans to disrupt the intensive, although I don't actually know what could be done to prevent it other than cancel the thing entirely. Of course, disruption is in the mind of the participant. Maybe it would be intensely disruptive of the hearts, souls, and minds of attendees to come and go from that event without having concerns addressed and questions answered. There are more rights at stake here than just those asserted by Con:Sin and the mindless ones who are incapable or fearful of hearing anything other than the party line.

We are not advocating any illegal activities here, simply suggesting that it is well within our rights to ask questions and demand answers, even of the well padded Jach Purr-Sell.

If anyone feels the urge to have an eyeball to eyeball with any of the rest of the Gang, I'd sure like to hear about that too. Some of those people have a lot to answer for.

I strongly suspect that there are some "matured egos" out there which would be most gratified to take the opportunity to speak their issues face to face with one or two of those world class abusers. I sure know mine would be. Those lowlifes are protected from direct confrontation only by their own tactics. There is no rule of ethics or law against giving them a bit of Cosmically Foolish Wisdom. They have functioned for years with their lopsided rules about who has the right to speak up and who does not. It's time to level the playing field, and take those little platstic demi-gods off their self-constructed pedestals. I wonder which one of them is even capable of having an eyeball to eyeball conversation with a self-respecting self contained human being who has valid, straightforward, and direct questions to ask. I suggest that it would be a most worthy experiment to find out.

There is no real law against anyone standing up and asking questions other than the laws made by Con:Sin, and they are only as powerful as the willingess everyone to agree to them. It is still a free country, the last time I checked, no matter how hard Con:Sin tries to impose restrictions on our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

I'm sure that anyone who tries to speak up at the intensive will be ultimately silenced, but, just that in itself, and the tactics used to accomplish it will be as revealing as the actual answers to questions.

There are several ways to strategize this opportunity. Certainly Jach is not immune to being approached privately and having these questions or any others posed to him. There will be that silly "Magic Time" during which attendees are invited to ask questions,
and there will be endless hours of seminar time during which no laws would be broken should someone choose to stand up and speak.
Peny herself felt free to do so, why not anyone else?

I am visioning a calm, composed, self-confident delivery of a well reasoned and rational statement of concerns and questions by someone who is awake and aware of their own rights to voice them, and who will not be easily manipulated or controlled to back down.

What harm or damage could come to such a person/s?

This isn't about hurting Con:Sin, it is about not continuing to hurt ourselves by caving into the controls and secrecy imposed by those, including Lazaris, who have set themselves up to function as our spiritual advisors.

There is such a thing as accountability, and I can't think of a better opportunity to ask for it.

Why not give Jach, the Gang, and the Grand Orb the opportunity to exonerate themselves from suspicion? I would think that they, like any healthy caring individual would welcome the opportunity to clear the air.

I just hope the note takers and recorders are poised and ready, so those of us not in attendance can be accurately and comprehensively informed of the outcome.

Lots of people have thanked us for this site, not just me and Ted, but everyone who has invested energy into participating. This is a golden opportunity to return the favor.

Having said all that, back to you Aud, let's face it, you and I would not even try to behave!! Our tactics would be more street theatre, because most of these questions are already resolved for us, and be real, we're compulsive and irreverent mischief makers!

You, me and Jade would have much more fun doing our "wild thing" outside the doors of the seminar in our own artistic and humorous styles.

I always loved John and Yoko, but let's face it, they confused and alienated more people than they illuminated with their creative antics. That doesn't mean that their stars shine any less brightly though! A holiday season does not pass without us hearing the strains of their Christmas Song, their call for responsibility, freedom, and peace.

But, that's another post.

Katie

quote:

---

"Lazaris' teaches an inner spiritual heirarchy as well, full of categorizing and compartmentalizing. Starting with you, your "higher self", spirit, soul, GGATI. Add archtypes, old folks, magical child, magician, etc.
I'm rereading Jane Roberts', The Nature of the Psyche.

Here's a quote from Seth that puts a completely different slant on spiritual awareness

---

On one of the Peny & Lazaris tapes -- Lazaris states VERY explicidly that he specifically differs with Seth as to the structure of non-physical spiritual heirarchy.

My opinion? Yes -- in order to control the very life out of vulnerable people -- make them thereby dependent -- and IMO drain'um dry financially to pay off Peny North for the opportunity.

IMO -- the most important "material" difference here? Jane Roberts had no burning ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS imagined "need" for 27,000 sq. ft. in Palm Beach.

And I do admire the hell out of those enjoying big property in Palm Beach -- who purchased it with *well* gotten gain. Absolutely.

And competitive material false esteem is hardly enjoyment.

In fact: IMO it's deadly.

Steve

quote:

---

On one of the Peny & Lazaris tapes -- Lazaris states VERY explicidly that he specifically differs with Seth as to the structure of non-physical spiritual heirarchy.

---

Isn't that interesting? How could two entities differ on such an issue? Do you remember how Lazaris explained that away?

Just the thought of "non-physical spiritual heirarchy" gives me the willies. Spiritual Heirarchy? What the hell is that?

Do you think I can put in an early bid for Queen of the Causal Plane? I sure wanna be one a da bosses in the non-physical!!!

I guess I'd better get that negative ego of mine cleaned up good and proper dontcha think?

GEEZZZ!!!

Katie

quote:

---

Lazaris states VERY explicidly that he specifically differs with Seth as to the structure of non-physical spiritual heirarchy.

---

Looking back through this Seth book, there's no structure or heirarchy. No "time" outside this plane, so no prestructure, structure or heirarchal levels.

Seth focuses on the reader as a consciousness exploring and journeying through its own unique inner "environments." There are a few simple exercises (a sentence or two) for increasing fluidity of movement within the psyche.

How different this is compared to being directed to experience a Siriun, Lemurian, Atlantean heritage, and the multitude of specific experiences promoted by the Orb.

Also interesting is that there is no use of the word "spiritual" or "spirituality." Makes sense to me, because that is our innate essence, not some delineated arena to turn our attention to, like going to church on Sunday. It's easy for a guru to nab someone for seemingly extraneous "spiritual seeking." Seth's simple suggestions for cracking and moving through our own psychic walls in order to encounter our own personal unknown, rather than say "The Beautiful Unkown" -- make for uncharted evolving self knowledge, no fairyland or defeating internal foes. Very refreshing.

Jade

quote:

---

Do you think I can put in an early bid for Queen of the Causal Plane? I sure wanna be one a da bosses in the non-physical!!!

---

Sorry Katie, guess who made an early exit and beat you too it!

I think she's the Queen of the Caustic Plane, not the Causal Plane. But then there's Mimi to contend with...

Just a footnote. In private Peny was extremely contemptuous of Seth, and anybody else who channeled. She claimed that Jach and Lazaris (and of course she) was/is quite superior to any of them.

SuMari

Yup, Seth apparently didn't believe in "levels" (imagine that) nor Masters. (hee-hee) Jane questioned just about every damn thing that came out and constantly scrutinized the authenticity of her own material. I don't believe she ever took money for a session, although she charged about $2.50 to join her ESP class. Worlds of difference here.

I remember reading of a hilarious class session (held back in the late sixties I think) where the class experimented with "Table-tipping". Jane refused to dim the lights or to enhance the "spiritual atmosphere". She believed that psychic phenomena should be as easy with the lights blazing, and a damn sight less suspicious. (She WAS a bit of a skeptic, after all).

What a hoot! Quite a different picture, I agree...

Well, it's getting to countdown time for the intensive.

Readership is definitely up on this site, and it appears that we've had a number of new visitors over the past week or so.

I'm very much hoping this is due to increased frustration over the Con:Sin silences on the recent deaths and the scores of other questions and concerns raised on this site.

If there is one primary question that should be asked, it is "Why the silence and control over information?"

Also, please feel free and welcomed to spread the word about this site during your time in Orlando.

Sooner or later we will get all the puzzle pieces we need, there are lots of bits and pieces of information out there, and every little bit helps.

This is activism time folks. The days of complete control and secrecy are over. Stand up and speak up.

I'm holding a very good thought for the person/s who are willing to stand up and voice questions and concerns which are very much on the minds of many Friends of Lazaris.

Katie

quote:

---

Originally posted by Katie:
Hi Steve,

Isn't that interesting? How could two entities differ on such an issue? Do you remember how Lazaris explained that away?

Just the thought of "non-physical spiritual heirarchy" gives me the willies. Spiritual Heirarchy? What the hell is that?

Do you think I can put in an early bid for Queen of the Causal Plane? I sure wanna be one a da bosses in the non-physical!!!

I guess I'd better get that negative ego of mine cleaned up good and proper dontcha think?

GEEZZZ!!!

Katie

---

Hi, Katie: Doesn't Roman Catholocism and Hinduism have spiritual hierarchies? You got the angel through archangel thing and I forget the Hindu hierarchies.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Irene:
Doesn't Roman Catholocism and Hinduism have spiritual hierarchies? You got the angel through archangel thing and I forget the Hindu hierarchies.

---

From the below information in the Catholic Encyclopedia, it appears that there are teachings of hierarchies but there is not doctrine requiring the acceptance of this ordering:

quote:

---

From the Encyclopedia:

The treatise "De Coelesti Hierarchia", which is ascribed to St. Denis the Areopagite, and which exercised so strong an influence upon the Scholastics, treats at great length of the hierarchies and orders of the angels.
...
Though the doctrine it contains regarding the choirs of angels has been received in the Church with extraordinary unanimity, no proposition touching the angelic hierarchies is binding on our faith.

---

Within the Christian Bible, there are nine orders of angels: Angels, Archangels, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Dominations, Throne, Cherubim and Seraphim. My understanding is that there is general agreement that these orders are so designated based on "roles and responsibilities" in aiding the Divine. Any hierarchy seems to evolve from proximity to the Divine, rather than a clear statement of spiritual evolution.

My understanding of Hinduism is a bit weak. From what I understand, there are teachings about reincarnation and the progressive evolution of the soul which incarnates for experience to achieve liberation and move on to a "higher" level. I also get a sense of hierarchy from the descriptions of Hindu trinity (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma), and then there is the historical Caste system.

Thanks for your response! I've never been able to really get an explanation of the angel system, probably because I was raised Presbyterian and Protestants use a Bible with less books than RCs... you know, the books that explain angels are missing probably. Can you let me know where to find out more?

It's been so long since I studied all this that I'm no longer current, but your comments on the Hindu religion seems to jive with my recollections.

Thanks again for your response.

quote:

---

Isn't that interesting? How could two entities differ on such an issue? Do you remember how Lazaris explained that away?

Just the thought of "non-physical spiritual heirarchy" gives me the willies.

---

NEUP.

IMO just the standard -- unexplained -- Jachass expression of over-confident yuppie coke nose *final* spiritual authority.

Steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by Irene:
I've never been able to really get an explanation of the angel system, probably because I was raised Presbyterian and Protestants use a Bible with less books than RCs... you know, the books that explain angels are missing probably.

---

It's my understanding that each of the branches has a set of expansions and interpretations which expound and/or expand upon the Bible. In addition, each branch has a set of "doctrines" which define the basic belief system for the branch within the context of the Bible and whatever relevant expansions exist. Lots of variety depending on where one looks.

As I understand things, the Protestant reformation was based in part on the rejection of the RC related to the practice of appealing to the Divine through intermediaries (priests, saints, angels, and so forth). Variations of this theme have arisen on this site as it relates to Lazaris being somewhere between ourselves and the Divine.

I suspect, but am not sure, that the absence of teachings about angels within the Protestant branches stems from the rejection of the intermediaries. This absence raises some interesting challenges for Biblical studies, as the Bible clearly articulates the presence of angels.

quote:

---

Can you let me know where to find out more?

---

I suspect there are numerous sites on the WEB which contain various perspectives about angels. The Catholic perspective can be found at http://www.newadvent.org. The Catholic Encyclopedia and the Summa Theologica both contain relevant information that I am aware of, and I suspect there are other sources on that site that may also contain some information. The information I've found here was useful to me for a basic understanding of the topic.

There seems to be a resurgence of popular literature regarding angels, but I do not have any recommendations as to a good source.

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look. I was referring to what I think is a difference in the number of books in the King James Bible and the one used by RCs (my ignorance is hanging out, I should look this up before making the statement.

You are correct, Irene, Protestant and Roman Catholic canons (officailly accepted writings of the bible) are different. The Protestant Old Testament includes only the books that are part of the Hebrew bible. Roman Caltholics (and maybe Orthodox Christians, too) accept additional material.

The Apocrypha are books that appear in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew bible, ca. 300 BCE). Some of these are included in the Roman Catholic canon. There are also some Hebrew writings called the Pseudoepigrapha that are not included in any canon. I think a lot of stories we think we know from the bible come from these "unofficial" sources.

The bible (whatever version you use) is pretty much a mish mash of different material. But that's a discussion for another topic.