Air freshener anyone?

I feel very sad and sorry that our participation here has opened us up to this kind of ugliness and verbal assault.

I don't care who you are, it hurts to hear or be on the receiving end of such intense, vile, and pointless hatred. I'm not too proud to say it.

Of course there are those who will say that we are doing the same thing via our critiques of Con:Sin here, but that doesn't allow for much discrimination of thought does it? Which one of us has set ourselves up as a spiritual authority, or formed an organization which can be documented to have
functioned as a destructive group through abuse of power, mind control tactics, consumer fraud and soul rape? Which one of us here asked for followers or declared themselves to be bigger, better, smarter, or more spiritually evolved than anyone else, or lorded our ill-gotten gains over others as some kind of a proof of our superiority and specialness?

None of us who are being slammed here, that is for sure.

This bit that we are just as bad, jealous or whatever is pathetic, and I'm getting dead sick of it, especially when it comes from people who should and do know better, but choose to vent anyway just for the sport and release of it.

I really encourage anyone who has a gripe here to clearly and cleanly speak up about it in specific terms, stating the specific issue, and a factual illustration of it.

The rest of these bogus hate flingers can shove off.

Steve mentioned on another thread that during his true believer days he was not the easiest person to reason with (hope I got that right Steve, I'm operating here from memory). He proposes that maybe we should we should give these bozos some latitude.

I'll give all the latitude in the world to anyone who comes here willing to have a clean discussion, or even a heated argument, based on actual facts, statements made, and opinions offered.

I'm not in the least willing to gladly suffer the un-cosmic fools who come here full of piss and vinegar seeking nothing but a place to vent their pent up hatreds and angers against god only knows what, or consistantly fling around falsities until by default they become woven into the fabric of "truth". I'll pick that fabric until it shreds every time, tedious as it may be. I don't like my Truth sprinkled with infective
waste matter.

Projection, mindlessness, false judgements, and non-specific toxic hate dumpings are poisonous, mostly to the practitioners, but really to all who are subjected or witness to them.

I hope an expression of support and caring for each others rights to speak freely within our boundaries here will serve as an effective antidote.

I have nothing but respect and gratitude for everyone who has come here to stand up and speak their truth with respect for others who are doing the same regardless of whether or not we agree.

No one is perfect here, but it seems that the two camps in operation are those who choose to defend freedom of speech, expression and thought, and those who seek to restrict or halt it. I don't mind in the least indentifying and making enemies of those who feel justified in hurting, controlling, or restricting the rights of others. This site is not offered to them as a place to run rampant.

Katie

You wrote:

quote:

---

Steve mentioned on another thread that during his true believer days he was not the easiest person to reason with (hope I got that right Steve, I'm operating here from memory). He proposes that maybe we should we should give these bozos some latitude.

---

The most vile of the bozos was not a believer in Lazaris, so he doesn't get that slack. His is a war on behalf of his friends whom he says don't need his support.

You wrote:

quote:

---

Which one of us here asked for followers or declared themselves to be bigger, better, smarter, or more spiritually evolved than anyone else, or lorded our ill-gotten gains over others as some kind of a proof of our superiority and specialness?

---

Actually, the same vile, non-Lazarian declares himself better than the rest of us because:
He is a millionaire
He was never in a cult
He doesn't need to wank
He isn't a racist

Interesting that at least the first two criteria would make him better than his friends for whom he professes so much love.

He doesn't need to wank? I missed that, along with the millionaire bit. So much for skimming, you never know what you might be missing.

Maybe that's why all the pent up misdirected energy. It does have decidedly perverse sexual overtones.

Nothing unhealthy, degrading or embarrasing about a little self-love, if you ask me. It's kind of a weird thing to deny, or judge against in this day and age.

If God didn't want us playing with it, he wouldn't have made it so much fun. You know what they say, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with.

Break down Theo, have a wank. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You might find a new and exciting lover.

What exactly is a millionaire anyway? I've always wondered. Does that mean that you have a cool million in cash, assets, that you've made a million, or have the potential to? What the hell does it mean anyway? Are we millionaires? Hey, maybe we're bigger millionaires than Theo!! Won't that make us super cool? Now I really want to know if I should be expecting more respect from people.
Someone tell me please!!!

Katie

quote:

---

Steve mentioned on another thread that during his true believer days he was not the easiest person to reason with (hope I got that right Steve, I'm operating here from memory). He proposes that maybe we should we should give these bozos some latitude.

---

Neup. You misunderstand --

My brain was WASHED -- so that the only *enlightened* way to deal with me socially was either: quietly ignore my impossible attempts to prove The Lazaris Material "right" -- and/or hit me with hilrious critiques of my behavior.

For both -- I am now ETERNALLY greatful.

Those that took the bait -- and attempted to "reason" with my 'cult speak' just dug me in deeper.

Some of us are better quiet responders -- some are better banana cream nuclear weapons techs.

And that can depend on the particular slasher up for response.

Who wants to be the one to take out the stinky trash EVERY time anyway?

Hm.

Butt licking.

Sometimes the best response is virtually effortless.

Steve

Sorry for the misinterpretation.

I hear what you are saying.

During our "true believer" years, we were not opened to discuss the L materials with critics. We considered it to be too disrespectful and invasive.

The problem with non-cult members for the most part is that they aren't familiar with the material, and can't raise the really pertinent questions about how they function to shame and foster dependency.

All we ever heard was how stupid it was to believe in a channelled entity, and we didn't hear that very much. Sadly, our friends for the most part very much respected and trusted our judgements, and were willing to allow that we just might be on to something.

Ted and I have not had the kind of life crises and apparent failures that would indicate to the world that we were being led down a garden path. If anything, we were good advertisements for the materials and beliefs, on the surface.

We also knew the material well enough to discuss it impressively with those who showed interest. We were good apostles when we chose to speak.

It was our belief that to argue or debate about the existance of Lazaris or the material was disrespectful and counter-productive. We were not proseletyzers, because we chose instead to believe that we were privy to special information that resistance to it was just an indication of
"negative-ego" or willing blindness. We were very special and enlightened you see.

For those who would read this and say "see, this is proof that the materials do work, and poor misguided jealous angry Ted and Katie for letting them go", we did have crises, and serious ones that I now believe the materials not only weren't able to help, but that they were the fundamental causes of them.

I will speak for myself on this. In retrospect I see that my systems began to break down over the years. The more I worked the techniques and absorbed the material the less I was relying on myself and my own good common sense and instincts.

If I had a relationship problem I would go into the ethers to bring about a resonance shift, heal my never ending shame, mature my negative-ego, give my dreams to the Lemurians, whatever. The more technique I got the less I lived in my life. My house was humming with crystals doing the work for me, and hundreds of tapes available to escape into at the first hint of discomfort.

This is painful for me to talk about, but I think it's important.

Looking back, I can see that because of my fervent investment and belief in the L materials I gradually became the kind of bubble headed, consciousless, unethical asshole that I have always judged strongly against and that all L followers believe/d ourselves not to be.

I became less and less capable of understanding and responding to my own feelings and actions.

If I felt doubts,guilt or discomfort over something, I would pull our a tape and do some crystal, MMM, technique voodoo rather than actually addressing the issue face on. I believed that doing "the work" was addressing the issue, and all that happy good feeling I had after a meditation was the proof of my healing. This is why I am so determined to get to the bottom of where those warm and glowing feelings came from.

What I now believe is that the materials foster mindlessness, because they become the end in themselves. I didn't seek resolution with others, only with myself and Lazaris. If Lazaris gave me my strokes and filled my heart to bursting with love and support, then what could possibly be wrong? If the relationship wasn't resolving, it wasn't because of me, it was always about them, and how my stellar healed matured ego was just too much for others to deal with.

Ted and I did this dance and sunk deeper and deeper into it until our level of intimacy with each other began to erode, and we literally lost all intimacy with our daughter. We weren't me, Ted, and Lauren, we became victims, martyrs, and negative egos, all in need of work and healing, and whether or not we were willing to do "the work". We didn't face each other to our own final resolutions, we went into "meditation" and handed our issues over to this Entity, who provided endless assurance, promises, and a false sense of resolution and security. I really believed that as long as I was doing the work with Lazaris that I was protected and my boundaries were shored up.

I think that Peny's deteriorating behavior is very much an indication of the dynamic I'm talking about. As I read my own words, I can see so much of the dynamic behind her interactions with others.

We constantly ask ourselves how someone with all her money, status, and proximity to this marvelous being could be so purely miserable, insecure, disinterested in facts, and rotten to people.
It has often been said that Peny did not know the material. I'm now believing that she knew it too well.

I see the process, how the materials take us so far from ourselves, our minds, and instincts that we can literally come to a place where we feel justified in behaving like tyrants. We are healed you see, those around us clearly are not, or we wouldn't be having these problems. All interpersonal issues are written off to the balance of whose ego is matured and whose is still negative. Our problems with each other become more about a need to judge each others soul state than they do about our actual behaviors, choices and decisions.

I guess I'm going off on a stream of consciousness here, but I think I'm having a bit of a personal epiphany here. I feel a deepening of my understanding of the true insidiousness of the materials, as well as of the dynamic in the Forum, and actually, right here on this message board.

I'm seeing another layer of the onion peeling away for me, and feeling the need to do some of my own introspection about to what extent I am still indoctrinated, and therefore to some extent still approaching my relationships from this place of surrealism that is fostered by the L materials.

God, this pisses me off!! No, I don't blame anyone else for my choices, decisions, and blindness. I do very much blame and hold Jach Purr-Sell responsible for creating and perpetrating such an elaborate enticement though. If he didn't build it, no one would have found their way into his trap.

Maybe, possibly, likely we would have found others just as bad, possibly worse, but we will never know that. All I know is that I was stuck in his for a long time, and that he did his level best to get me there, and keep me there. I know for sure that I was played by a master who is deliberate and calculated in his tactics, and for that I am most angry.

I am seeing that I still have work to do in releasing myself fully and completely from his trap.

At the risk of making this post too long to hold it's interest, I would like to ask a favor of my friends and fellow readers here.

When you are judging others, evaluating them from a Lazaris perspective as to whether or not they are in neg-ego, martyr, pity, self-sabotage, whatever. Is it helping anything?
Is it making a difference? When you judge yourself so, is all the "healing" work changing anything for the better?

I feel compelled to state that my interactions here with "true believers" for the most part has indicated nothing of the kind. We haven't even been able to navigate our ways through a productive conversation together on a flipping message board on the internet.

We can't keep writing others and ourselves off because of these negative evaluations or judgements, and feeling justified and righteous for doing so. It isn't helping. It's hurting a lot.

Katie

quote:

---

What I now believe is that the materials foster mindlessness, because they become the end in themselves

---

Very good point, but almost impossible to see when involved with the Orb's material. It is so easy to be distracted by what "Lazaris" says, rather than observing the experience.

I appreciate your candid expression of how involvement with L negatively effected your personal relationships. In my case, even before I doubted L, I was aware of an inner dissonance, trying to locate mein the midst of the mountain of material that I had absorbed, and the unconscious dependence that I had developed on "Lazaris."

This is not "love" folks.

Jade

Many friends were drawn to listen to my initial forays into the Lazaris Material -- due to the respect they had for my discernment and success.

That all fell into great disrepair years later as IMO The Lazaris Material took a rather obvious crisis toll on my life.

IMO it's like a slow ticking bomb planted deep in your psyche Katie! IMMO the longer you are with Jachzaris -- the worse things get.

Look at Peny and Michaell.

Jesus Christ.

Steve

I have copied these last three letters and sending them off to different friends who have been apart of the Lazaris trip over the last 10 years. What you post here is so important to thoses who are questioning.

My story is very much a repeat of what you have posted.

This is really the bottom line for me regarding this whole Con:Sin dilemma. What purpose is it serving. Forget about even living up to it's vast promises. Is it worth while on any level?

I realize how disturbing it is to contemplate. Here we all are/were, making major investments in this material, and I'm not only talking about money, I'm referring to the mental, emotional, and spiritual energy anyone has invested even if they only
worked with the fundamentals, or simply believed in the crap. Changing the way you view yourself, your reality, and your responsibilites as a sincere spiritual being is not a lighthearted experiment.

The minute we accept that we create our reality, but more significantly, invest in an explanation of how that works, we are making a huge shift, even if we don't use the techniques. If we believe that there is a Lazaris, that they are a loving and helpful being who would never mislead us, we are accepting a deeper level of responsibility because Lazaris tells us that we can and should. It would be such a joyous responsibility IF the damned information was correct, reliable, consistant, and from a true source of wisdom and concern. When we begin to realize that the techniques aren't working, while still believing and trusting Lazaris, we have nowhere to look for the blame than to ourselves.

I know people who work the techniques like crazy, those who don't bother, and everywhere in-between. Every one of these people is functioning from a shifted inner perspective, and has to be frustrated and blaming themselves for every failure to achieve the results the techniques promise.
Either it's because I'm not doing the techniques, or not doing them right, I'm not willing, can't receive, or because of some sickened state of our souls, it's always about something being wrong with us.

This is deadening stuff folks. I don't care which way you twist it or turn it, or how many people make vague but passionate assertions that the materials work. They don't bloody work as promised, and I am more than willing to say they are nothing more than a pile of made up crap that sounds good.

We never needed anyone to tell us to be responsible, or to think things through, or to act from integrity. Jachzaris has turned discussing common sense and morality into an art form, but flipped the coin on us, and used it, along with our sincere desire to be happy, successful people, and turned common sense into no sense at all. He's piled so much crap and nonsense on top of it that anything that was once just a simple concept has become the topic of 15 seminars and twenty two tapes and just as many new techniques, multiplied by 7 things wrong with us that will cause them to fail. Each one of those 7 reasons can have countless sub-reasons.

So, if we aren't succeeding, we are obsessing on all those reasons why, and every last damned one of them is about us not being good enough, no matter how many times that Orb says we are. If we are good enough, we don't need the damned techniques, do we?

God, it's such a mind bending mess!

I do feel that we are in a crucial moment with the L materials. The door has opened for the questions to be asked for the first time, and the material to be evaluated outside of the belief system.

We are not in some negative ego state for asking, evaluating, or reporting our observations. It's sickening beyond measure for anyone to use that bully stick to discourage anyone from thinking.

Now is the time to ask, and demand answers.

Jach is no holy man with special privileges, and Lazaris is not above being questioned either.

It's seriously time for this one way conversation to open up to a free exchange.

It's sickening to me to realize that every time throughout my twelve year involvement with this group, that every time I got together with other believers, we were all asking each other a million questions within minutes.

No one will convince me that there is one firm and true believer out there who has no questions, and who is completely successful in using the materials. That person simply does not exist.

So, why do we have to ask these questions amongst ourselves. Why in this almost 30 year run have none of them been addressed by the Orb?

We keep hearing about what a tiny little group we are here, and I suppose that is supposed to mean that our concerns are of no significance to Jach or his addicted gang.

Why? What difference does it make if it is only one person asking? Does Con:Sin operate within it's own consensus?

I can state with great confidence that we have been visited on this site by a good percentage of L believers based on the kind of numbers they themselves throw out. Thousands of people have read here in the past few months, most of them obsessively, whether they posted or not. Very few people arrive here, take a quick peek and leave never to return. Most spend a long time reading everything in the "Friend or Fraud" section, and then spend time reading the message board. Some of them send email, and the largest percentage of that is supportive and congratulatory and gives a short message about the disillusionment of the writer.

So, believe what you want Con:Sin, but you are only fooling yourselves. People do care, and do want to know what the hell is going on. And more to the point, every single one of us has the right to have our concerns addressed and questions answered.

We may even fight and disagree here, but so what? It just means that we care, and not about YOU. We are here because we care about US. Aren't WE who the Orb came to illuminate, despite Peny's fervent assertions that it was HER? If it was only her then what the hell are the tapes, books, seminars, and private readings about? Peny?

Your foul negative judgements about us and refusal to acknowledge this dissent is just one more indication of what a bunch of self-serving, uncaring parasites you all are.

Maybe you will do yourself and the world a favor Jach, and announce this upcoming intensive to be the last, due to Peny's departure. If not, then you'd damned well get busy and address the questions and concerns of the rest of us who have paid dearly to hear what Lazaris has to say to US.

Katie

quote:

---

It's seriously time for this one way conversation to open up to a free exchange.

---

The time is ripe for some answers from the "friend." But expect great resistance, more secrecy, more deceit, more stonewalling.

Jade

I do expect more of the same, but isn't that an answer unto itself?

Here is Jach's chance to prove us wrong, or even that he gives a crap about our "little" group here.

To date, we are officially of no interest or concern because we are putting out bad energy due to our jealousy, bitterness, and bad marriages.

That speaks volumes to me.

Way back on page 1 of this thread, IMO said:

quote:

---

A while back CS sent the schedule for the rest of this year and all of next year 2002.
No titles on the 2002 stuff, just the dates. I don't remember them ever being so far in advance. I guess around these tenuous times they wanted us all to know J&L&CS would be around for awhile. They don't want no peasant uprising.

---

What amazed me was this sentence at the top of the 2002 schedule:

"Since we know many of you need to make travel plans in advance, below are the dates for the 2002 seminars so that you can
plan ahead."

Excuse me? Plan ahead? Who wants to plan ahead and get nonrefundable airline tickets for events that have a good chance of getting cancelled without near so much as an apology?

Jeeze woman, how dare you Question.!!..Don't you realize that each chance to be with the ORB is so majickal you shouldn't CARE what the silly title, nor the actual CONTENT of the seminar will be.

Didn't you ever go to sit at the feet of a guru and just get the cool vibes comin' offa him... they even have a NAME for it "DARSHAN"
that way he doesn't acutally have to SAY or DO anything,,,, he can just sit and BEEEEEE
and you can BASSSSKKKKK in the GLOOOOWWWWWWW
of the DAAAARRRRSHAAAAAAANNNNNNN..

wake up woman to the power of TRUE META-PHYSICS, the kind of spirituality that gives new vigor to the -META- in metaphysics..

Sheesh, how will Jachass tell who's really indoctrinated...and who needs a bit more "processing" to become a real sheep oops I mean--believer.....

I got in this John Lennon mood, and found this little tune which I thought fit in well with your post above.

THE RISHI KESH SONG
By John Lennon

- "Alright, the happy Rishi Kesh Song"

ALL YOU NEED TO DO
IS TO SAY THIS LITTLE WORD,
I KNOW IT SOUNDS ABSURD
BUT IT'S TRUE.
THE MAGIC'S IN THE MANTRA,
WE'LL GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
SO SWALLOW THIS,
THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO.

EV'RYTHING YOU NEED IS HERE,
AND EV'RYTHING THAT'S NOT HERE,
IS NOT THERE.
AND YET THERE'S SOMETHING MISSING
IN THIS GOD ALMIGHTY PLAN,
COULD IT BE YOU NEED A WOMAN?

AH NOW, ALL YOU NEED TO DO
IS TO SAY THIS LITTLE WORD,
I KNOW IT SOUNDS ABSURD
BUT IT'S TRUE.
THE MAGIC'S IN THE MANTRA,
WE'LL GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
SO SWALLOW THIS,
THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO.

BUT STILL...

YOU'RE SO SUICIDAL,
SOMETHING IS WRONG.
THIS CAN'T BE IT
SOMETHING IS WRONG.

UUH -

SOMETHING IS WRONG,
SOMETHING IS WRONG,
SOMETHING IS WRONG,

I had a blast reading Lennon lyrics at: http://user.tninet.se/~dwe825h/jl98.htm

I still love that soaring spirit who took me dancing on the wind as he left the planet smiling and singing, still wondering, humble, and showering Love.

Katie

It sure is rather absurd for Con:Sin to express any concern for people's plans isn't it? More like concern for as much attendance as possible.

As to the fill in the blanks titles for upcoming seminars, I think that is just Jach allowing himself time for strategy.

Now that he's ended the private readings (cause no more Peny to feed with little private tidbits?) I wonder how he will figure out the mood of his audience?

Does anyone know of any private correspondence of late between Jach and the followers? I wonder how he's keeping is finger on the pulse besides by reading or getting reports of what is being discussed here? Surely he can't be relying on feedback from that recently sterilized and impotent Forum of his.

Or, maybe he's stuck in his own insulated little world where he is still the sweetest and most humble of fellas.

I hope my source doesn't mind me repeating this, but I heard a story recently about someone who was in the mens room with Jach during a seminar break. Jach had popped in to change his shirt, and just left his hanger lying on the floor for someone else to pick up.

It's just a little story, but clearly one which stuck in the mind of the witness.

It isn't proof of anything, but certainly a strong indication that Jach is a spoiled and thoughtless person at best. So much for impeccability.

I've stated this here before, but maybe it bears repeating.

I have yet to hear one nice story about Jach, or any indication that he has ever been liked or respected by those who have spent time in his proximity and inner circle through the years.

Rumor has it that Mary Beth couldn't stand him and that the reason she stopped accompanying him to seminars.

I think he's a contemptuous little bag of flab whose character is as developed as his abs.

I personally will be happy to see the saggy tail end of that foul bit of work. The sooner and brighter the spotlight he scampers out under the better.

Katie

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audrey:
Jeeze woman, how dare you Question.!!..Don't you realize that each chance to be with the ORB is so majickal you shouldn't CARE what the silly title, nor the actual CONTENT of the seminar will be.

---

Audrey, even tho I was commenting on the "plan ahead" part of the seminar schedule and not the seminar titles, I am in your debt for showing me that my Negative Martyr Ego Victim got out of line. A simple apology will never do, so I will walk on nails and go read the titles of some tapes.

Much love,
Susan

We are all most gratified to know that you are appropriately handling that murderous ego of yours.

I feel so much safer now, knowing that you are punishing yourself.

Keep up the good work!

And, thank you so much Audrey for coming to our rescue once again with your deep insights and touching vulnerability. I so agree with everything you say.