May the Light and Love of God/dess All That Is shine upon and within you and may you find that which your heart most longs for.

Love and Peace,

After going through a similar experience in here a few weeks ago, I just took a look for the first time since, and this topic was at the top. I remember enjoying and appreciating your letters before (for the short week or two I was invilved here), and this one sounds real good too.

I don't know what you'll get from all this, but it only helped me to mature and deepen my friendship with Lazaris, which I now see has nothing to do with Peny, or Con Synergy or anyone except Lazaris and me.

I'd read in hear and start to wonder, but then I'd listen on tape or just hang out with them, and realise that my experience has been very different, and Lazaris' honesty and empathy and love is clearer to me than ever.

It might be nice to have something like this but truly open; but then again, I always remember on one of the Peny and Lazaris tapes, they actually discouraged people from groups for these very reasons, and because each of our spirituality is so personal and unique and must be done individuallly - but of course not alone.

My experience here has so far helped me in also letting go of more martyrhood, and more self importance which I'm replacing with more self esteem, and also it's helping me to be more understanding and accepting of others. I agree we create our realities, and if someone really wants to be a victim, they will create that reality, even in their relationship with Lazaris which I must honor and respect.

But for me there are too many other more fun things to do.

I just wanted to say that I for one will be sorry to see you go. I never got the feeling that you were trying to push your business down anyone's throats or that you were trying to hypnotize anyone here. I always felt that you came from an honorable place in trying to help others feel better about what they might have experienced. I've been thinking about it, and I think that part of the problem has been that you didn't actually cite any sources that you had--you know--tell anyone what book or magazine to go to so that your statements could be seen as more than your opinion. I have come to the conclusion (erroneous as it may be ) that this is what Katie wanted you to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she just wanted you to shut up so that only her voice and agenda could be heard. I don't think so though.

Anyway--I think that it's a shame that the people here cannot disagree with each other without sinking to the name calling and innuendos that have been flying around here for a while. I, personally, have tried to ignore the negativity that's been flying around but it's been hard. I don't come here to read people dogging each other over and over again over semantics--I came here at first because my mother told me about the site, and I kept coming because I honestly felt that all of the people here were good people who wanted to make a postive impact on the world. I don't think that so much anymore. I think that the people want to talk the talk--but when it came right down to it--walking the walk is just way too tough. It's okay to say that you want people to have free speech Katie--but part of the responsibility of having or granting free speech is listening to what people have to say even though you disagree with it.(I'm not saying that you disagree with every single person who is a friend of L's--but there were plenty of ways that you could have worded things that might have been a little bit nicer. You don't have to like Chris, but you should have treated him with a little more respect. And you deserved that too. Chris doesn't have to like or agree with you--but he does have to give you respect--every single one of us deserves it. This post isn't about who's been right or wrong--since I'll tell you the truth as I--(and probably many others who don't have the guts to say it)--see it --you have both made mistakes and been really hurtful and rude to each other. Does this mean that you are horrible people? Nope. It means you're HUMAN, just like the rest of us, and you've both made mistakes and been misunderstood and done some of the misunderstanding.

Call me a fool, but I don't think that the people who come here are con artists looking for marks--I think that they're people who just want to talk to like minded individuals and make some kind of sense of their lives.

Chris is right you know, the site will eventually shut down if people don't start talking about something other than how rotten and bad CS is. There is more to life than how Jach and Peny and the Orlando gang treated people and just focusing on the negative stuff will get tiring and people will stop coming. Look at how many people have stopped posting just in the short time that I've been here? There have been a lot of them, haven't there? That's just something to think about. And I do appreciate the site. I think that it's wonderful to be able to go somewhere and talk about how I feel about a subject that most people have no idea about. But there IS some good to the L material. Whether L is real or not--the material is good stuff. People learn differently--and while it's all well and good to laugh about the neg. ego, the dark shadow, the shield, etc.--some people just won't GET IT until it's worded a certain way. That's okay--it's not you who are listening to that material anyway. You've learned and grown all that you could from that material and that's okay too. There's nothing that you can really do to stop someone else from working with L--no matter how much you want to. All that you can do is to give people the information that you have and hope that they listen. If they don't, all you can do is be there for them when and if they fall. Like Chris--I don't have a problem with the material--like I've said here before--"Hey, they took the material from the best sources." I just have a problem giving CS money when I don't like the way that they do business or the way that they treat their customers. They're despicable people as far as that goes.

I hope that I haven't hurt anyone's feelings, because that is so totally NOT my intent. Since I'm a fairly intelligent person, I realize that some feelings might get hurt and I sincerely apologize for that . I just think that you should know that some of us who come here really appreciated Chris and what he had to say. Even though I disagree with some of the stuff he says, he will be missed by me.

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I always felt that you came from an honorable place in trying to help others feel better about what they might have experienced.

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Citing sources is not the problem, it's unsolicited advice, delivered in a condescending manner. Furthermore, attempts to engage in a discussion with Chris are fraught with the shifting sands of his selective belief in the l material and his penchant for hopping between L- Speak and consensus reality definitions. These mind games are fruitless and draining, unlike the more typical interaction here.

[/quote]It's okay to say that you want people to have free speech Katie--but part of the responsibility of having or granting free speech is listening to what people have to say even though you disagree with it.[/quote] As far as I know, no one has been censored here, although the subject is on the plate with Chris.

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Call me a fool, but I don't think that the people who come here are con artists looking for marks--I think that they're people who just want to talk to like minded individuals and make some kind of sense of their lives.

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Posters are talking about things besides C:S, Peny, Michaell and the Orb. But I hope to see that conversation continue until Con:sin runs out of gas, not this site. I've seen posters leave, but I see new arrivals too. there is definitely much more activity on this site than when I arrived in Jan.

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But there IS some good to the L material. Whether L is real or not--the material is good stuff.

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Unlike you, I don't appreciate Chris. My inclination is to be inclusive whenever possible. IMO he has been misused this board.

No Katie isn't perfect. Sometimes I think she is jumping the gun in a negative way about an individual. But, usually in hindsight, I see that she just has a better sniffer -- maybe because of all the emails with ulterior agendas sent to her and TedV.

I'm glad to hear your opinion.

Jade

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And I find nothing threatening in a differing opinion.

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IMO this site is best suited for those who are already have, or are contemplating jumping the Orb's space ship, those who want to continue under his sphere of influence are going to bump heads here. All the more so when the attitude and tactics are not on the level.

There should be a site for those who are fed up with C:S but want to continue with L. The opening pages of CF make it clear that the hosts have a very negative opinion of L. Long term hanging out here as a believer is like swimming up stream.

Jade

Thanks for your thoughts about this issue.

About CosmicFool running out of steam: That will be fine with me if and when it does. When talk about Lazaris and C:S becomes really boring, it's a sign that healing has taken place. I certainly agree that there is life beyond Lazaris and there is life beyond expressing anger, concern, etc. over this situation. Of course, there are people coming and going. Some may be at the beginning stages of questioning, others are part-way through expressing their feelings. This site is for all, what ever stage they're at. For those who have moved past it, wonderful.

As long as revelations such as the deaths of Peny and Michaele occur, there will be a use for this site as a focal point for those discussions.

There are other sections of this site that are apart from Lazaris and C:S. If anyone feels like starting a conversation about other issues, those forums are available. One can read only in those forums and stay away from the Lazaris section if they so choose.

Katie and I put this site up as an opportunity to discuss anything pertaining to Lazaris, Spirituality and Metaphysics. We are not the leaders who need to seed converstaions in other areas for those who are bored or uncomfortable with the Lazaris talk. I already suggested to A Friend that they start a thread in the Metaphysical Concepts forum to discuss Lazaris, Seth and Edgar Cayce, if they feel that that would have value. No one is forcing anyone to read or agree with the posts in this section, nor is anyone preventing anyone else from initiating other conversations.

As to your allegations of Lazaris-believers being Gang-banged: Chris has been told repeatedly what the parameters are here, which do not include self-promotion.

If people were ganging up, then why don't the "non-gangsters" speak their peace at that time? You have lurked while we allegedly gang-banged Chris, but you said nothing. If the issue is one of the believers being outnumbered, you had the opportunity to help even the odds.

I hold that that is not the issue. Katie very clearly explained to Chris what her issues were with him and they weren't his belief in Lazaris. Many of the discussions were between just the two of them, with TedC coming in to support Chris. Others chimed in at different times. Never was there a conspiracy of shutting Chris down.

Having never met or dealt with Jach, Peny or Micheale, your opinion about whether they are as bad as we say is without merit and disrespectful for those of us who have. Even most of the people here who believe in Lazaris have little good to say about these people.

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With all respect...

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Your post shows no respect at all. Neither did your last one.

So which is it? Is it Katie or a gang?

You wrote:

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But I also stopped posting here many months ago when I realized a different opinion was not "really" welcomed, but rather met with gang bang force.

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I take it then that your post of March 10, 2001, which I'm re-posting here was a mind-fuck?

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jeeeeezus Marilyn! I just f*cking love you sooooooooooo much too! And I hope you realize that's why your opinions have such tremendous impact on me. I haven't slept one wink since I posted yesterday. After reading the responses to my post (thank you all sooo much!) I have read, and re-read every post (thank you Karolina!) by and to Malene a hundred times...and keeping in mind that there is a huge difference between "opinion" and "behavior" as Katie so clearly pointed out (thank you, Katie). And I did find one statement
which Malene made which could easily be taken as dismissive (thank you Ted!) and condescending (forgive me, Jerehmiah?).

And fool that I am, yes.., I had begun to see Malene as a "poor thing." And her one big statement really had me going, "I truly feel you guys are reacting from fear of retribution from a differing opinion. That is a normal reaction in cult members, but since I have been accused of being condescending it is hard for me to point out without fanning the fires," really had me doubting whether or not some of you were willing (worse yet, able?) to question yourselves and see things from another perspective beyond how you had been
brainwashed to perceive and process information. And please understand that I fully agreed with what Steve Brooks had said about Malene,"I have really seen the value she brings to this forum. I must admit she has a tremendous amount of knowledge to offer about the quite insideous mechanical innerworkings of cult. This information can be very helpful to those just leaving the Lazaris Cult." Between those two statements alone,
I was torn in ten directions, but always doubting, wondering and worrying. And you were busy with work, hadn't posted...and basically pulled a Gloria Swanson*, "i vant to beee alone" on me. Thanks Marilyn! Dump
me off in the middle of this f*cking Hitchcock movie! LOL I am sorry I directed all my anger at you. I wasn't being fair. And I apologize here and now, and before all.

And I hope you can forgive me? And I apologize to everyone else for having to indulge me. But I especially want to thank each of you for your consideration and for your very helpful posts.

Marilyn, in all these years, I have never felt your love so much as today. I love you.

Best wishes,
Theo
*Or was it Garbo.., one of those dames...

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I'm having to wonder where both of you have been while my soul and marriage have been being judged here by your fair and impartial Chris who is just here to state his opinions and help us all.

I'm wondering if either of you have given any consideration to the fact that I have privy to logs and private emails which do, as Jade said, help me with my good sniffer.

I have refrained from posting my private correspondence with Chris and his alter ego TedC, because I have faith and belief in the ability of others to think and discriminate based on what they see in front of their faces.

I make NO apologies for anything I have said, or how I have said it to Chris, TedC or anyone else here. This is not a place for the thin skinned or those who are happy to be spoken down to, controlled or manipulated, and for that reason find it appropriate to negatively judge those of us who are not. I am standing up here in the best and most powerful way I can against spiritual authorities, and people who want to make themselves bigger by creating a belief in others that we need their help and guidance. I am not here playing tit for tat, I am addressing very specific and identifiable behaviors and attitudes.

It is not my fault or responsibility that neither of you can find your way through your emotions to make a fair evaluation of that.

I could spend hours and days pointing you to specifics, explaining myself, and trying to convince you, but I know better. Some people choose to think, and some choose to live in their feelings and knee jerk reactions. That is the difference between mindful and mindless thinking.

It is mindless thinking that allows cults and wanna be tyrants like Chris and Jach Pursell to flourish.
It is your choice to engage in whatever form of thinking and feeling you wish, but please, do not ask or require me to accept, agree, or respect your very emotional perspectives on my interactions here.

I very much agree with Jade that this is not a good place for those who choose to live in the netherworld of trying to find the good in the Lazaris material while trying to separate out the wrongs of Con:Sin, or those who seek peace at any cost. I am at war here, and the stakes are my mind and freedom, and my desire and committment to provide a place for others to wage the same war on their own behalf. I will not play "nicey nice" or compromise myself and my beliefs and observations to do that, regardless of who is left feeling uncomfortable. This site isn't about comfort, it's about discomfort with anything that smacks of cultism, mind control, manipulation, or spiritual authority.

I sought to make Chris as uncomfortable as possible in his belief in his superior wisdom, and his attempts to assert himself as a spiritual authority, or an authority on the potential for damage within the Lazaris materials.

If I were to just quietly accept Chris' statements of authority, and comforting expert assertions about the safety of the Lazaris materials I would be just as quietly supporting everything I am here to oppose, beyond that I would be patiently hosting it. I'm sorry that you can't see that, but again, that is not my responsibility.

Vicki, your sister is very much in a destructive mind controlled cult, and I am not so sure that you are as free of it yourself as you like to think.

If you are concerned about that I would suggest that you learn to practice a little more discrimination of thought. If you are blind to Chris's game here, you are also blind to the reasons and causes of your sister's indoctrinations.

This site is for me a way of standing up against an oppression of my experience, and enhancing my understanding of how and why that oppression continues to flourish and have it's deadening influence on the minds and souls of good and sincere people like it has had on me, Ted, Jade, Audrey, your mother and your sister.

I am quite clear Vicki, that my efforts are not met with your approval.

I am also clear that you are more concerned with Chris's feelings and rights than you are with mine, Ted's, Audrey's, Jade's or any of the other people who he subjected to Con:Sin like soul judgement and analysis.

That is fine, maybe one day Chris will magically manifest the resources to open his own website, and you can all hang out there and let Chris help you to feel better.

That is not welcomed here, this site isn't about finding ways to feel better without understanding what is making us feel bad, and why we are allowing it.

Anyone who is looking for someone to help them feel better or to provide all the answers and solutions is well served to leave this site.

No one is having their arm twisted to stick around here, and any thoughts about the future of this site are of no relevance whatsoever. We are not in any way trying to create some popular internet site for fun and profit. When this site has served it's purpose it will ebb away all by itself. We have no plans of developing any manipulative feel good schemes to keep it going.

Katie

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So maybe the hosts should clearly (and honestly) define "who" and "what" is truly welcomed.

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We have clearly defined that over and over again. All are welcomed to share their thoughts, feelings, observations, and experiences. All are equally welcomed to debate, dispute, discuss, argue, hug or kiss.

No one is welcomed to function here as a spiritual authority through the use of absolute statements, judgements of the souls of others, condescension, manipulation or deception.

No one is welcomed to engage in illegal or threatening behavior, or to promote or advertise commercial enterprises without the express permission or invitation of me and Ted, the owners of this site.

All are informed upon entering that should they be a believer and supporter of Lazaris or Con:Sin that they very well might be made uncomfortable by the commentary here. It is recommended that if that is too much for them, they should stop reading and leave.

For you to state that I have not welcomed people of differing opinions is just the very bullshit you are complaining of smelling. It is a flat out lie, and if you smell something bad, it is of your own creation.

Once again, it is not my fault that you are incapable of recognizing the objectionable and unwelcomed behavior that is outlined above.

If you missed Chris attempting to function here as an authority it is because you choose to blind yourself with denial. It is not because it did not happen.

I would thank you very much to leave your comments about my marriage out of this conversation.

It always amazes me that those who scream "abuse" the loudest, are the quickest and most virulent in their use of it.

What pure hypocrisy Theo. Of course, it would make you feel bad to recognize that, so clearly I'm the abuser for noticing.

Note Theo, that my objection about your posts here is not because of a difference of opinion, it is about your hypocrisy in coming here lecturing us about how mean we are while at the same time engaging in pure contempt, judgements, and vileness yourself.

Where the hell do you get off giving anyone lectures about decency in communication.

Please crawl back into your lurker cave.

You can say or think what you want about me, but I stick around to respond to people, and I've responded to a LOT of people, not just here, but by private email as well.

Yes, I have my limits and have stated them here today. Excuse the fuck out of me for getting fed up with the never ending pointless bullshit Chris and Co have been dumping in here for months now.

Chris was emphatically asked to leave when it became increasingly apparent that his posts had no purpose here other than to promote himself and wear me down.

Thank God he finally got the message that he was not welcomed here. That is none of your fucking business, because you are not even a participant here.

You bet your ass I don't like Chris, but I like him a lot better than I like you right at this moment, and trust me, that puts you in one deep pile of dislike.

Where do you get your nerve to drop in here like some avenger take your swipes and leave?

What is your agenda Theo, what have you contributed to this site? You have never been a friend of Lazaris or involved with Concept Synergy.

I would like to say that your defense of Chris doesn't even serve him well, but I've long ago learned that he will take his props where he can get them.

As Jade said, there comes a point where it is clear that some visitors are engaging in destructive behavior, and it's time to tell them to leave.

I suppose you would be just the highests and most noble of sainted martyrs should someone come into your space and start throwing things around.

No, Theo, you are too much of a coward to open your doors and take any risks. You're just a hit and run thug.

I take your opinions with as much value as you have offered them. NONE.

Katie

I only just got it a few minutes ago.

No, I don't want the last word on this one.
You win, it hurts.

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No, Theo, you are too much of a coward to open your doors and take any risks. You're just a hit and run thug.

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Let's freshen up the site icon Sistah.

Jade

Agreed, we need some freshening up around here.

I would like you to ask yourselves why you are posting in such an insulting way. I am sure that in the normal way of things you wouldn't be insulting about Katie's marriage so why are you being like that here?

I've seen various people in various cults. There are plenty of differences but they have some things in common too. One thing they have in common is that they won't focus on the issues. Instead they attack the motives of the person presenting information, or the original source. When you think about it, it makes sense. The last thing a cult wants is its members thinking about the doctrine in a reasoned way.

Thanks for the nice post. You pose an interesting question.

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If you were in a cult, you would want to know, wouldn't you?

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Evidently not too many from this group do.
That's the saddest part of the whole situation.

I do celebrate those who have given due consideration to the thought, and taken the time to read and investigate, compare and analyze information and come to their own conclusions.

As everyone reading here knows, I very much believe that Con:Sin is a cult and have provided more than ample substantitation to my reasoning on that. To date, no one has contested my logic, only my reasons for applying it. Quite a few have agreed with it, and provided their own thoughts on the topic as well.

As you say, this is very much a typical cult response, so I take it with that understanding in mind.

I am not here to save people from themselves so I leave people to their own conclusions, but will continue to defend the rights of anyone who chooses to have an equitable dialogue here about their thoughts on this.

Thanks for stopping by.

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The last thing a cult wants is its members thinking about the doctrine in a reasoned way.

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Good point.This creates a lot of communication problems and can lead to the insulting behavior you speak of in your post.

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If you were in a cult, you would want to know, wouldn't you?

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"Lazaris", once one trusts, becomes highly internalized overtime. "Lazaris" will be with you anytime, anyplace, and in your dreams and meditations, and forever after you die. One is encouraged to study many tapes (hundreds are available) with meditations, and attend workshops that are promoted as having significant information.

Six months after I snapped out of my 14 year entrancement, I am still dismantling that interior internalization. But a profound sense of liberation, of having escaped, has been with me since I stepped out of the box.

Good to hear from you Pete.

Jade

Don't let the virtual door slap you on the butt on yer way OUT.!!!

BTW, when I'd said I was feeling ignored on that post some time back... I was checking to see if yer EGO wuz so big that you'd take it seriously.!!!!
Well, my thoughts were verified, you even sent a post telling me I was INDEED as "fetching" as Kaite.. LOL, LOL, LOL,

sheesh...better brush up on ALL those nasty EGO tapes Jach/L is so fond of about a gizillione more times .......watch out,....it's gonna GETT YYOUUUUUU....!!!!

I think I'll just slather on the lava:

I find your communications in here the last couple of days to be very offensive. There's no excuse for the personal insults you have dished out to Katie and Ted, or to whomever.

It's apparent that people are coming here with a vast array of opinions, but there's no call to be hurtful because you may disagree.

You probably don't give a shit, but I had to weigh in here with my comments on this. I think that mutual respect is crucial here, and if you can't give it I wish you would not post.