Hi All,

I thought you might find this article interesting.

CONFESSIONS OF A THERAPY JUNKIE
I'd written letters to my inner child, sculpted energy fields, and taken "truth serum" in my quest for fulfillment. Why couldn't I stop?
By Sheila Munro

http://www.saturdaynight.ca/Articles/topstory1.asp

I'm beginning to think these therapy groups are much much worse than the Con:Sin experience, unless you happen to be employed by them, or otherwise sucked into close proximity, then I think it's worse. Those of us on the "outside" are the fortunate ones.

This story is a real kicker, well written IMO, and very pertinent.

Katie

I just read the article. Frankly, I'm blown away. There was no "truth serum" in my experience, but the overall events are very similar. I need time to think about this before I reply any further, but I want to say thank you so much for providing that article. It hits home right where the pain is.

It's terrible to know that you went through something like that.

I think a lot of therapists are operating far beyond the boundaries of ethics or even sanity, yet their practices continue to flourish. That speaks to the power of authority, power and peer-pressure. It also speaks to the ability of us humans to handle "authority" either by being one, or seeking it.

The good news to me is that this topic is coming out into the mainstream on many levels. I particularly liked this article because it was published outside of the "cult-awareness" circles, which IMO is becoming just another authoritarian set-up.

I send you all the best wishes for your continued success in clearing the confusion and pain a relationship like this causes, and celebrate your understanding of what happened.

My suspicion is that it won't happen to you again.

I think it's important that we are speaking out here about abuses of authority, because just as you and I responded to that article, others do respond to what we write here too.

Here's a whisper for Con:Sin and other "helpful" authorities....we're gonna keep the whispers moving down the lane, until they become loud cries of freedom.

Katie

Wow, thanks so much for that what a sleuth you are to dig that up....

It is very interesting, and I too am sorry that anyone has to go through that type of opression. and pay through the nose for it as well.!!!

The sitting staring thing is "lifted" from Scientology, and brought home many memories.

BTW, that type of "confront strengthening " is done at the very outset, it gets even wierder after that, once yu've managed it, you make it tougher and talk to the person, and then TRY to PUSH their buttons,;;;total strangers(picked to partner by the group leader) are reduced to strong verbal abuse...

Although the staring part of THIS story seems the most benign of all this woman went through......

It is always interesting to see how much material is lifted between these various new-age etc. therapies, it gives new meaning to ***6 degrees of separation***....

Pisses me off once again, and drives in the realization that when you go out wandering around in strange neighborhoods, best not to ask wierdos for directions, and DON"T get in their car when they tell you they will give you a ride home!!!!!

Best,
Audrey

Well Katie, you really came up with a good one there. As you know I too subjected myself to a super controlling "therapy" group/community for far too many years. And the similarities to the experiences of the woman who wrote the article are disquieting. Makes me wonder how much of this goes on. I know that it's rampant in the fundementalist christian sects, and other religions, but I'm beginning to think it's just as prevalent in the "alternative" growth groups, and throughout the purveyors of new age thought as well.
What still puzzles me is how so many people who I would consider reasonable folks with strong senseabilities and sense of self arehooked into these groups. I suppose the reasons could be many. I consider myself such a person and I was easily hooked too. Something about the sugar coating of love, understanding, belonging, acceptance - who wouldn't want these things. But I vow to myself that from this point on I will look at what comes along with that sticky sweetness a good bit closer.

Yah, wondering in bad neighborhood, indeed, Audrey. That's a great analogy. We really do need to develop strong instincts about the environment we're functioning in.

Oakspirit, of course I thought of your experience when I read this article. It's interesting isn't it that we're surprised know that these things go on in "New Age" circles? That's where we turn to look for the depth, ethics, truth, and love that is so highly touted. I suppose we all have the ability to become trapped by our own beliefs.

My theory on this is more about personalities than about modalities.

For me the danger signs start flashing as soon as I hear of someone who is all loaded up with solutions and answers for the confused and suffering. It's like a recipe for disaster IMO.

There is something about the human ego which has a very hard time handling the sense of power and specialness that comes from all the gratitude and admiration bestowed on someone who helps out in a tight moment. Some people just can't handle it appropriately and they let it go right to their heads, even if their intentions were good an honorable in the beginning.

Although, I must say that I think there is a certain personality type drawn to the "helping" professions in the first place. I'm really not convinced there is anything honorable going on with these "wise helpers".

Did you ever notice how many people come out of some kind of life trauma and head straight into counselling mode? There's something scary about people who all of a sudden have it "all figured out". Some people really fall easily into a messianic daze.

I think Jach is one of these people, a previously ineffectual dork who all of a sudden finds a way to become significant, first to Peny, and then possibly very surprisingly, to others as well.

I'm sure these people believe they are being helpful, and lord knows the admiration and gratitude they receive would tend to substantiate the fact that they are, but how long does it take for a self-assured and ethical person to notice that no one is really getting any better? As long as the specialness continues to feel good I guess. The money doesn't hurt the cause either.

Lynn and I have both written here about our little "moments in the sun" where some insight or talent of ours was received with gratitude and admiration from some easily swayed and vulnerable person in search of help and answers.

To me, an ethical and self-respecting person would figure this dynamic out quickly. As Lynn said, it gave her a very icky feeling. It did me too. From the depths of my soul I heard the words "NO NO NO, don't go there!", and I had never even yet heard of "giving something to my ego". I did already though have a strong attachment to the Truth, and I know that the Truth is that I had nothing to offer these people but a cup of tea and sympathy on a stormy day, and that they are quite capable of learning to make their own soothing brew.

Some of these clowns, I think, make sure to keep the weather stormy, so they can keep pouring that tea. It sure beats a real job, and often pays better too.

This is classic co-dependence, and in the end
all players are responsible. But, as in all abusive relationships, I believe that one is the true victim. By strict interpretation, of course, both are the victims of each other, but it's the one who holds the power who is in the stronger position, and it's just borderline criminal for anyone to consistantly and strategically maintain a position of power over another.

Dirty old men offer candy to little kids, not because they want to give them enjoyment, but because they want to soften them up. And they know just which kids are starved for candy, and aren't being cared for and watched.

When you think about it, there is no difference in the two dynamics. Smart dirty old men know how to keep their victims coming back too.

The bitch of the situation is that dirty old men eventually get caught and go to jail.

Maybe the Divine provides an appropriate prison for those who rape souls. Oh, I forgot, we make our own prisons. May you rot in the one of your own making Jachass. I suspect you're beginning to notice the bars already. Your suckupphants can't keep those cold bars hidden from you forever.

Wherever you go, you are THERE! I despise everything about you, you smirking, lisping, wimp from hell.

Katie

This is a great thread, and very current to all the thinking I have been doing about "groupthink," misuse of power, really staying true to ourselves and how to do it. And "how to succeed in business" without Lazaris.

As I mentioned, I too have experienced being controlled, and especially manipulated, based on my weaknesses that were obviously known to the manipulators! Often while being berated for being a martyred, manipulative person. The worst of it is that VERY early on, a deep level of trust had been built. The trust was based on the idea (OFT-repeated)that these people had been the the only ones in my loser life strong and clear and honorable enough to have the guts to contront my manipulative behavior and ego. Everyone else either gave up because I was too much of a pain, or didn't bother because they didn't care enough, or just weren't aware and perceptive. And Goddess only knows where I would be without them. Certainly not growing. (I got to where I hated the word growth, or growing! Just let me stagnate in peace. But no, I couldn't really have stood being outside of things.)

Again, at an especially vulnerable time in my life, this dependency, and supposed inability or unwillingness to see things about myself that were so crucial, became so deeply imprinted that it colored everything that came after for a long time. It certainly led to increased encroachments into almost every aspect of my life, to the point that incredible amounts of authority were handed over to these people, and of course, Lazaris. All the while, of course, applauding and being applauded for being on the path of self-actualization.

BTW, I want to share some thoughts about Jach. My earliest knowledge about Jach came to me through the eyes of some very status-seeking acquaintances who went to almost all of the workshops from quite early on. These people always described Jach as being kind of a schlumpy, VERY non-egotistical, non-limelight, sweet, fade-into-the-woodwork kind of regular guy. They were much more fixated on Peny, who I am sure they had identified as the real power, even before she became so well-known, through the forum, etc.

I never saw Jach for myself until the videos, and then at workshops after that. He seemed to begin undergoing a transformation around the time of the videos. He became visible, for one thing. I remember being surprised that he would talk and be the spokesman, based on what I had been told about him.

(Back to an earlier theory, this also coincides with the era when Lazaris' accent and presentation changed dramatically, not all that long before the videos. I still wonder if Lazaris was really here, and checked out, and the triumverate covered this up and went on.)

Anyway, I have heard stories about one or more groups that included Peny (I am sure she must have been the leader), which included a lot of the establishment of "trust" based on "we are the ones who will really tell you the truth, which you need to hear if you really want to grow, as opposed to just fuck around like the concensus paeons." I feel sure that there were were confrontations, "truth-telling," confessions, instructions, etc., similar the the forum.

What an honor it must have been to be a part of all that!

At the risk of sounding like a Lazarian, I think these people demonstrate an extraordinary degree of arrogance. They must have felt that they were way ahead of you on the path to think that they were in a position to tell you about yourself with such authoritah.

This group was sanctioned by C:S, yes? And C:S is sanctioned by "Lazaris". When one sanctions a group, one takes on partial responsibility for that group's actions. So C:S bears responsibility for this group, as Lazaris bears responsibility for C:S.

If the Lazaris material is so great, why don't these alleged therapists simply point people to the material? Do they think they're adding something to it? That they get something from it that you or others couldn't get without their guidance? Are they so sure of their analysis that they cannot hear anything else? Chutzpah!

Interesting that Peny saw herself as "the person who had the guts to tell people the truth about themselves". Who had the guts to tell the the truth about herself? If "telling someone the truth about themselves" is so commendable, why did she sick her pit-bulls on the few of us who attempted to offer that gift to her?

Please do...ramble on. I think the rambling is a very good thing. So much better than continuing to sit in puddle that has long since begun to fester and draw flies. I see a lot of people doing that too, in the name of "well the material is still valid". Geez!

If the Goddamned material is so valid why isn't anyone finished with that negative-ego yet? Forget rich, powerful and blissed out, let's just get that bugger settled! Oops, I mean dangerous murderer.

I found some more articles today on mind control, persuasion and manipulation which I found very interesting.

This is a site that advocates the "ethical" use of persuasion and manipulation, claiming those to be the keys to success and happiness. Ouch!

But, even this numbrain does grant that manipulation can be unethical, and considers it's use by cults to be one of those times.

I contend that all manipulation is unethical. The thought that we need to manipulate others indicates a lack of faith in each other, and the thought that the only way we can get what we want is to take it, rather than living in the confidence that all we want is already given, WITH HARM TO NONE.

I do like it though, that this is not a cult-awareness site, and that the author, one Kelton Rhoads, PhD, explains the cult dynamic from the perspective that it isn't really brain surgery to pull it off.

He goes into an interesting discussion of the "Hot Seat Technique", a lot like what we've heard about these therapy groups, and very much like the stories we've heard of Peny's weekly "love healings" where people were routinely slammed and shattered.

He provides a bit of information on "persuasion research" which shows how in order to keep a person under the influence, there is the need to keep a balance of self-esteem, not too low, and not too high, just happily right in the middle where the subject is neither too depressed or too self-confident to respond to persuasive messages.

I find the article quite interesting and revealing.

http://www.influenceatwork.com/cult2.html

I think you will find it most interesting Sky Voice, especially in light of your "therapy" experience.

I do wonder if any of our "firm and true" believers ever read any of this material. It's one thing to declare us cynics to be in the throes of negative-ego, or just a bunch of cry-baby failures, but all these researchers and scientists too? Wow!

Now, the theory that there once was a Lazaris and now there is not. Hmm. That one keeps coming up.

I think I've stated my thoughts on that before, and given that I have no way of knowing, all I can say is that if so, Lazaris still has an obligation to get the information out that he is being used.

If we assume that L was present at some point and was therefore around when the promise was made that "he" would channel through Jach, and only Jach, until the end of Jach's days, I don't know how we could account for the possibility that he has now stopped channelling through Jach, and left himself with no out, or no other way to communicate that would be accepted as valid as long as Jach is alive.

That theory would mean that L "himself" created a monster and foisted it off on us, and that he is now doing nothing to undo the mistake.

Once again, that would make the Orb less than trustworthy IMO, so the theory just brings me back to the same place.

It doesn't matter whether L is real or not. He sucks big time either way, and I have no interest in investing in the teachings of someone so irresponsible.

I think it's just so damned hard for us to want to admit that we have been completely hoodwinked, and so shocked and astounded that anyone could pull of such a long running scam, that we are always looking for ways to somehow validate the high points of our experience with L.

We can validate them easily, if we just stop crediting them to L, and give the credit where it is due, to ourselves, and the Love of the Universe.

That's the only "safe place" for me, but it does require enough self-confidence to KNOW that we don't need any help to reach those stellar places.

That's the rub of it all. Our exceptional moments are all tangled in with a bunch of slime, and we keep trying to untangle the web.

Maybe it's good enough to just leave the slimy tangled web where it belongs, in the garbage, and move ahead with confidence in the knowing that nothing that is ours can ever be taken from us. If it's in that mess, it isn't worth having.

Ultimately, I don't believe that the gifts of the Universe adhere to slime anyway. Shake it out, grab the gems, and toss that smelly festering mess into the trash can. Better yet, burn it in the hot fires of passion and love for Truth.

That's my take on the whole thing anyway.

Katie

Oh yeah, the arroganth overfloweth! Goodness yes, they were head and shoulders ahead of ME, and certainly had the authority, and always would. But of course, if anyone dared to imply any lack of raiment on the part of the royalty, the unfortunate fool would be put back into their place for being the competitive, arrogant, martyred, ego-ridden, miserable cur that they were.

Now, I can't say the groups were sanctioned by Lazaris or C:S, per se. Certainly, the materials were used freely, and a good number of group members attended workshops or listened to tapes frequently. And yes, I hadn't thought of that part of the arrogance -- why would Lazaris need them to interpret or work with anyone who had access to the materials?

I think the self-serving model, which I believe to be truly unconscious most of the time, that is described on the website you link to, Katie, was one of the main things in operation at all times. I think the people I am personally aware of really believe they are doing good, and do not think of themselves as self-serving, much like the student that is described. I have no evidence that there was a thought-out and executed plot to ensnare and "keep" people, as the perception was that it was a wonderful, maybe the most wonderful, place to be. For me, that is the most insidious part of it. One of the reasons that I really oppose permanent leaders of any kind. I will never again associate with people who cannot be challenged, and who constantly find ways to hold themselves above me.

I especially find the sections on "framing" on the link that you provide, Katie, to be very interesting. Those techniques are ones that I have experienced so extensively that I am still separating out what I really think and feel. Of course, we are all subject to framing techniques, all the time, by our media, at work, etc. I agree with with your contention, Katie, that all manipulation is unethical. And while I do at least consider the possibility that the manipulations to which I have been subjected were done from the more "innocent" motives (genuine belief that they were right and helpful), I don't think that matters one bit. People playing around with such supposedly sophisticated information, and being leaders, and all, have the responsibility to be more conscious than that.

I can see your points, Katie, on the Lazaris, real or not real? question. I do still find it necessary to continue thinking about this, in the pursuit of a conclusion, at least one that satisfies me. It is a conundrum that if Lazaris created a monster, being as powerful and all-knowing as he is, that he could not solve or communicate it. So, your contention that we just hate to admit we have been totally taken is very reasonable. I still have not written off all of my experiences with Lazaris, and the work I have done with the materials, and so I need to solve this for myself. It has become more obvious, as I have stated here before, and seen other people state, that separating Lazaris from C:S, which once seemed the easy solution, just isn't that simple or reasonable. But I am still reserving the right to think about it, and examine it.

I do love being able to learn what others are thinking, and to share my thoughts.

That site is really interesting isn't it?

I spent a lot of time reading there, I think it holds a lot of clues toward our understanding of what our Con:Sin/Lazaris and related experiences have been about.

Reading such an indepth and detailed analysis of manipulation really helps me to see that the materials are just as manipulative as any of those perpetrated by the "humans".

Lazaris is, after all, the final authority.

[quoteI can see your points, Katie, on the Lazaris, real or not real? question. I do still find it necessary to continue thinking about this, in the pursuit of a conclusion, at least one that satisfies me. [/quote]

Of course, I am certainly not voicing my opinion from any place of authority. Like you, I continue to ponder these things too.
I'm not expecting mine to be the final word on anything Con:Sin related. Hell, I don't want that responsibility!

I liked the information offered about the thinking process on that site. The author sites studies and research done on the process of human thought, and divides it into "mindful" and "mindless", and offers a lot of reasons that we often engage in the "mindless" type.

Some research suggests that the human mind is actually resistant to "mindful" thought, stating that brain wave studies have shown that the brain reacts to complex thinking,like trying to solve a math problem, very much the same as it reacts when we plunge our hand into a bucket of ice-water. I find that interesting and illuminating, but I do not agree that all humans are resistant to deep or complex thinking. I believe that to be relative to the amount of "exercise" a brain has had.

Anyway, I do believe that the key is THINKING, and the more we do that, the less inclined we will be to engage in the "mindless" form where we really are not fully processing information.

If I have an agenda, it is to encourage thinking, ever mindful thinking, and the recognition that we don't always do that.

I believe that as we learn to have more faith in our own thinking process we will become free of the need for leaders, gurus, and others to explain things to us.

I'm all for each of us figuring these things out for ourselves, especially issues that concern our own private souls.

I have yet to check out that site Katie posted, but reading these posts has been so interesting.

I just wanted to post some things I got out of the most recent "Magical Blend" Magazine.. they've just changed the name I see to simply "Blend" dunno why maybe they didn't see the endless majick like JAchass does...

We get this mag. at work gratis, I guess because one of our divisions advertises with them (scary....

My thoughts are that Blend is a very dangerous publication, because it make quite a bit of WOOO WOOO shit seem very legitimate: the ads with 800 numbers etc..and articles.

The whole thing reminds me of the Mt. Shasta throw-away type paper newsletters I pick up for kicks, but BLEND has the APPEARANCE of a REAL MAGAZINE, with REAL journalists etc.

Shirley MacLaine is on this cover, dressed in an alpaca poncho....hummmm
She's promoting her new website, that is out to spread some kind of word 'bout something...

OK, sooooo while perusing I see this ad for a NEW Mosquito/bug repellant, so here's the deal.....

We who are bitten more by the mosquitos have this happen to us--NOT because of only some biochemical attraction these bugs have to our skin/blood, BUTTTT...
*******CUZ WE HAVE BOUNDARY ISSUES!!!!*****
WE need to strengthen out psychological sense of boundaries, and the bugs won't invade... LOL

It gets better, these geniuses have come up with a SPRAY...to do what?? to help with THAT..****WHAT*****??? exactly HOW would a spray do THAT????

Gets better... there is an endorsement!!: "I guess I was too grumpy, and CYNICAL to think that the bugs would respond to the spray, but I put it on and I didn't get one bite"

My outrage about some shit like this goes so deep because see the manipulation there just in this silly ad..
She was too cynical to open herself up to the concept that bugs react to boundary issues...

It make me shudder to think/remember all the ways in which we were fed:"it's your fault" shit...

So much damage is done to those who are obviously dawn towards healing....

To state the obvious yet once again, go inside deeply and OFTEN to check on information/advice and healing modalities etc etc.. because it seems to me that the field out there is riddled with a whole lot more land mines that safe nuturing guides...

Oh yeah and yous who live by the beach..better REALLY TOUGHEN UP your BOUNDARIES b-4 you go swimmin,,,,YOU COULD GET EATEN BY A SHARK!!!!!
(where's Jade's shark animation when I need it)

I remember going to my first workshop with the feeling that I'd like to know more people with a spiritual perspective similar to mine. I was experiencing loneliness in those therms. And I was uncertain about how to proceed with my spiritual growth. My favorite spiritual material was the Seth books but I felt ready for something new, especially something I could feel more connected to than just books.

So my situationalstate of mind caused me to be open to the solutionoffered by C:S and L, "structure, authority, and close social contacts." Actually, "Lazaris" offers all of these. Structured spirituality, an ultimate spiritual authority, and even the most intimate social contact in the form of the ever available and unconditionally loving Orb.

Other information I found helpful is the section on frames. "A frame is a psychological device that offers a perspective and manipulates salience in order to influence subsequent judgement."

Some of the many "Lazaris" frames are "mapmaker", "negative ego", and "spiritual adult" all of which are "devices" that have impact on subsequent judgement. They played out powerfully on the forum causing many to participate in a type of interaction that would normally be odious to them.

Everything from Lemurian/Atlantean heritage to Nemesis is a form of framing that we played out inside of ourselves, influencing our subsequent judgement -- frame upon frame upon frame. Then of course the big picture is Lazarian Framerama where one's spirtuality, and many other aspects of living are all painted by the Orb.

Reading this really helped me to understand how I let myself get sucked in and involved for so many years. Thanks for the link Katie .

Hey, Happy Independence Day Folks!



Jade

You want sharks!

Jade

Muchas Gracias for the sharks!!!

I do like that metaphor of yours with the wire cutters!

No-matter what type of barrier strengthening Jach is trying to do, I'm sure his ivory tower can /will come tumbling down.
Soon I hope..

I think one can get through just about any barrier with the correct tools.

D-ya think I should sharpen my teeth along with my wire-cutters???? perhaps the ORB's blood is a tasty treat???