Just a quick bit of info.

Our logs are showing record numbers of readers these days.

The number of posts doesn't reflect that over the past few days, so I thought I'd share that info since y'all can't see the logs.

Not to put pressure on people to post, but I must admit, I am curious about what is going through people's minds. It feels weird sometimes to be posting to such a silent audience.

Also, I thought those who are posting would like to know that "we are not alone!!"

Well, I am one of those who have been reading for a while and not posting. Sorry...I've been trying to absorb everything I've read here and figure out how I feel about the whole Lazaris thing. I was directed here by a friend who knew I was very confused and pissed off about the way Peny and Michaell's deaths were handled.

I guess I'll give you some of my background so you know where I'm coming from. I picked up my first Lazaris book in college around 1988. I started going to evening seminars a couple of years later. Maybe one or two a year and bought about 2 tapes a year. Not one of Concept Synergy's best customers!

I joined the forum a while back and mostly kept silent because I didn't want to get massacred for being unevolved. (I had always despised the way Peny treated people online but I still believed in Lazaris.) So basically I dabbled in the Lazaris material until this year. Not really absorbed by it, didn't ever get to an "intensive", but I did consider the Lazaris material a basis for my spirituality. So when this whole thing happened with the suicide I was really thrown. A sacred covenant???

When I came here and started questioning the validity of Lazaris and Jach, I started questioning the trust I had in myself. The Lazaris stuff felt right so I wondered - should I trust my feelings anymore? Very disconcerting. I think that's the main thing for me. I wouldn't miss Lazaris as much as hate the thought that trusting myself was wrong. That I allowed myself to be duped.

I'm grateful to have this place to come to and I really like reading everyone's perspective. It's helped me wake up a lot. Not just about Lazaris, but in many areas of my life. Thank you.

Just some of my thoughts...(hope I didn't ramble too much!)

Happy to be here,

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I wouldn't miss Lazaris as much as hate the thought that trusting myself was wrong. That I allowed myself to be duped.

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If it's any consolation, there are people much older than you who allowed themselves to be duped for a lot longer (like me), and also bought lots of tapes, attended more seminars,etc.

You said the "Lazaris" material "felt right." That's because enough of it is based in truth to get a person interested, followed by love bombing and encouragement to trust L. Don't know how much of this site you have read, but there are many posts -- about cult tactics, about the lack of originality of the core truths, and how this grand deception was able to suck in so many intelligent, sincere spiritual seekers -- made during the early months of this year.

Looking at why we allowed ourselves to be duped can be painful, but is very well worth it. It takes a while to sort out feelings
about the L betrayal and the self betrayal. But every bit of it is lightened by the sense of becoming more one's own self, and moving toward real freedom.

There is also the process of sifting through the "Lazaris" material and deciding what really rings true, what is bogus fluff and what is damaging.

I certainly join Jade in offering a warm welcome here. There are many, many others who have gone through and who are presently going through what you are and are awakening to their own empowerment. Waking up can be painful, but just knowing that you, and others, are not alone and that there is support, helps.

quote:

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So when this whole thing happened with the suicide I was really thrown. A sacred covenant???

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Hardly sacred nor does it bespeak living spiritually. To me, it was the final stroke of control in a dysfunctional relationship.

quote:

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When I came here and started questioning the validity of Lazaris and Jach, I started questioning the trust I had in myself. The Lazaris stuff felt right so I wondered - should I trust my feelings anymore? Very disconcerting. I think that's the main thing for me. I wouldn't miss Lazaris as much as hate the thought that trusting myself was wrong. That I allowed myself to be duped.

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Many of us are in a time of rebuilding and re-establishing self-trust, Lilly. This comes as we take back the power that we've given away and stand firm in our own spiritual autonomy. It is a powerful lesson for us all and we can use this lesson as a tool for our spiritual growth.

Welcome, Lilly!!

Crystal

Thank you for your post, it makes so much sense. I will definitely check out the cult info.

Y'know, I would have been as deeply involved with Lazaris as lot of people here but, back then, I didn't have the cash to go to all the seminars. Not to mention I get kinda bored and lazy.

The material has helped me wake up in so many ways, so I agree about picking through it.

Thanks again Jade. I look forward to participating here.

Yes it does help to know that a bunch of us are in the same boat (or similar boats). I was never publicly attacked or deeply involved, so I don't feel as much hurt and betrayal as do many here. But I saw some of the attacks and I'm sorry I didn't speak up. I really thought I was missing something, that I was "unevolved".

I have so many questions that I wish Concept Synergy would answer...

Thanks for your post!

Yes it does help to know that a bunch of us are in the same boat (or similar boats). I was never publicly attacked or deeply involved, so I don't feel as much hurt and betrayal as do many here. But I saw some of the attacks and I'm sorry I didn't speak up. I really thought I was missing something, that I was "unevolved".

I have so many questions that I wish Concept Synergy would answer...

Thanks for your post!

I'm not surprised that the "hit" count is high. And I'm also not surprised that people lurk rather than post.

Many people may be afraid that this is site is not really anonymous and they will be found out by CS and cut off from seminars.

Also I think Peny's death and Michaell's was a wake up call to people. For some it was a call to reassess how much power they have given to CS. For some it is a call to question Lazaris. I think for those who are only questioning CS but still believe Lazaris is separate, they lurk. For people who have been in forum, they are not used to being able to come into a posting situation and disagree and not be banned or skewered.

I enjoyed reading your post as well.

I think the events of the past few weeks have opened a lot of people's eyes.

For me, events in the forum confused me and the cruel treatment of people in forum over years made me angry. I would surmise that there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have been driven off.

Some people say Lazaris is total fraud. I am not at that point. My life changed dramatically after meeting Lazaris. Could I have gotten the information elsewhere? No doubt. But I believe that Jach, as smart as he is, could not pull it off. Others disagree. I do believe that there is no such thing as a perfect channel and Jach is no exception. This site has forced me to reassess power, projection, and how subjective each of our realities are.

There are many spiritual paths....

quote:

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When I came here and started questioning the validity of Lazaris and Jach, I started questioning the trust I had in myself. The Lazaris stuff felt right so I wondered - should I trust my feelings anymore? Very disconcerting.

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Hi Lilly,
I know that Katie and Crystal have already referenced this quote of yours but I would like to add my two cents also, please.
I am dealing with this same issue.

I have ALWAYS asked God to help me do HIS (/Her)WILL, to show me the correct path for me. Then I have trusted my instincts and followed what I thought that path was. I feel very strongly that I have done that to the best of my ability. So, what's up with this Lazaris stuff? Was I wrong, wrong, wrong about everything?

I don't think so. In fact I refuse to think so, because to me that would be a self-betrayal. I think the Lazaris material was just right for me at the time, and that it's just right for me now to take a different path. A path of true personal power, as Katie and others have talked about here.

Actually it feels liberating in a way. I used to feel guilty for not devoting more time to the meditations, but see? all along it was working out. I'd rather not punish myself for my "mistakes," but rather start where I am now and keep doing the best I can.

Thanks for posting, Lilly.

ok, I'm going to try a graphic thingy here,
just to see if I can do it:

Nancy

Yes,this is a very moving time.

We had a first wave of visitors starting back in the fall, all of us in a very emotional place about our recent disenchantment with Con:Sin and Lazaris.

As you've witnessed, our emotions have certainly run the gamut. Some have come and gone, some have stuck around. I trust that our meeting has been of interest and benefit.

And now it appears that we are having a kind of a second wave of emotions, no doubt sparked by Con:Sin's handling of Peny and Michaell's sudden and shocking deaths.

I intended no pressure by posting that we have many lurkers, I like to share as much as I can about this website with everyone who reads here, because this is very much a group project. I thought it would be good, especially for those who are posting, to know that their words are being read. Also, as I stated, knowing that there so many silent eyes upon us gives rise to my curiosity.

So, thanks for speaking up, that is certainly appreciated, it's good to know that you are here with us, and it is good to know how you are feeling.

I am sorry to know of your fear, confusion, and hurt, and very much relate to the intensity of it. It is because of our own that this site is here. Ted and I both had a strong desire to be in the company of others who might be thinking and experiencing as we were, and magic of magic, here we all are.

I trust in the Universe, and trust in the real love and devotion each of us has brought into our spiritual quest, that it will always unfailingly shine the light into the darkness, and protect us along the way.

Godspeed on your journey, IMO, I'm glad that our paths have crossed.

I've been lurking quite a bit myself the last few days. "Lazaris" says there is "Magick in the telling". I'm not sure they bargained for this kind of telling though. They also said said "they" (Consensus Reality, aka losers) weren't counting on "us" (mapmakers, aka special people, but not as special as the Gang). They're rather prophetic in their twisted sort of way.

I went off looking for a welcome lily, and got lost! I never did find one!

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When I came here and started questioning the validity of Lazaris and Jach, I started questioning the trust I had in myself. The Lazaris stuff felt right so I wondered - should I trust my feelings anymore? Very disconcerting. I think that's the main thing for me. I wouldn't miss Lazaris as much as hate the thought that trusting myself was wrong. That I allowed myself to be duped.

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Yes, it is very disconcerting to start questioning our ability to discern truth from hogwash. The fact is, that Jach is good at what he does, and he has one seriously devoted support team. Couple that with his astuteness in picking up on how people respond to information, which information they respond to, etc. and you have yourself a world class con-man, pretty much feeding back to us what we already know or are wanting to figure out. He sprinkles in some of his own silly mythology for good measure, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how good he is at recognizing what information will resonate with people.
I'm sure the private readings were good sources for that.

As far as not trusting yourself because you were duped, I think the best remedy for that is to understand how and why you were duped.

I was duped too, and definitely felt a bit sheepish about that in the beginning, but as I began to figure it all out, I found myself celebrating my freedom, and feeling very good about myself, Ted, and my dearest friends for going through the process of figuring it our regardless of how foolish we felt at times.

Then the outrage came along, and I celebrate that too. Signs of life!

I wish you all the best, and a most easy process.

You didn't ramble at all, and I'm glad you're here too.

Katie

I was just thinking of all the lurkers. I would surmise that many are afraid that posting would endanger their anonymity. Which leads me to ask:

* Could a gifted computer type find out a poster's identity here?

* Are you and Ted the webmaster of the CosmicFool site? Can you tell who is reading?

*Can you tell the identity of those posting?

Best,
Bluebird

Bluebird,
I'm very happy that you say Jach is an impure channel. I am of the exact same impression.
I was listening to a Lazaris tape yesterday, and when I compare that with what I've heard coming from Jach, it makes it absolutely clear to me that Lazaris is not a scam.

Jach could never have pulled it off. He is not that intelligent, doesn't have that beautiful sense of humor, and isn't so compassionate at all. Just remember how he's judging people all the time for not being adults. Hearing him speak in the Forum is such a different experience than listening to Lazaris. (And there he is trying to sound at his best, remember?)

I think that Jach and Peny etc. got a gift that they couldn't handle. When I listen to the material, it is so difficult to imagine that Jach could have made it up.
To study Silva mind control and Est, does not make a person capable of turning into an extremely intelligent and loving source of information.

I am sure that it was never Lazaris' intention that his material should be used to abuse and control other people. I'm sure that it was done by Peny and Jach. They were greedy people, with a success cube so small that it couldn't contain something so beautiful. They managed the impossible. To turn a beautiful and pure material into something evil.

What strikes me is also how conservative they are/were, (republicans, believing and sticking with old values, etc.)

Maybe they became Lazaris' enemies when being close to him started challenging their conditioning?
Enemies to such a degree, that they wanted to destroy his work with people. That they couldn't stand that he was setting other people free, and seeing others having success when they didn't. Therefore they made sure that nobody could benefit from knowing him. They behaved so awful in his name that people hate him now. They made an impression on people where people associate Lazaris with abuse.
At the same time they needed him for their own personal wealth and power.

Maybe the thing about turning some of you guys against Lazaris was exactly what they, in their own little twisted, dark, unconscious minds, were up to. The destructiveness was also extremely selfdestructive, and they ended up destroying themselves. (suicide and God knows why Peny died?)

I can just say that I've been reading a lot of posts, I have given it a great deal of thought whether Lazaris is a scam or not, but it doesn't make sense.

The material is great. It is the best I have ever encountered. Jach could never in a million years have done that. But as an impure channel he must have been saying a few things here and there of his own stuff. Maybe Lazaris didn't have a special relationship to Peny, that could have been part of the Con:Sin scheme.

No, Lazaris is real, and I feel sad that something so great was completely ruined for many of you.
I understand that you can't listen to it anymore and be open, not after being treated like that.

I knew somebody who grew up a Christian. He was beaten in God's name as a kid, and abused in other ways in God's name too.
As a grown up he hates God, he experiences nausea and pain if he thinks or hears the word God.
I mean, for somebody else, God is real an good, but for this poor fellow the connection is ruined forever.

I truly feel that this has happened to a lot of you. You may disagree, but it surely looks that way.
But you know, there are plenty more ways of being spiritual and connected with higher forces than being with Lazaris. Being with oneself, could actually be the best choice of all.

And Jach, if you read this, don't you think it's about time to come clean, and answer all these peoples questions?

Helena

You wrote:

quote:

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Hearing (Jach) speak in the
Forum is such a different experience than listening to Lazaris.

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Seeing Marlon Brando interviewed on the Tonight Show is a totally different experience than watching The Godfather. Am I flattering Jach for putting him in the same category as Marlon Brando? Perhaps, as an actor - playing only one role, mind you - I think he's supurb.

As for the idea that Lazaris is some innocent victim in this charade - how powerful is this "Being from the Higher Realms"? They can't figure out how to take responsibility for their foolish choice of channels? But they're here to teach us how to be responsible? I don't think so.

I refer you to this thread for strong evidence that Jach is doing the talking when he claims to channel Lazaris.

Cheers, Ted

Good questions, I'm glad you asked. I did give detailed answers to these early on, but I'm sure those threads are now buried pretty deep.

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* Could a gifted computer type find out a poster's identity here?[quote]

* Are you and Ted the webmaster of the CosmicFool site? Can you tell who is reading?

*Can you tell the identity of those posting?

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Ted is the webmaster, I'm the chef.

What we can tell about people are their IP numbers and computer configurations unless you are using an anonymizer, which masks your real ISP address. (the number assigned to you by your internet provider)
Most people's ISP # changes with each log on except those using DSL with static numbers.

We have a few of those anonymous users lurking about from time to time, but I recognize them by their anonymity! LOL

When I look at the logs I get to know people as ISP numbers. I've long since lost track, but I know instantly some of the people who are on our site because I'm so familiar with seeing them on the logs.

That is the only identifier we have, except whatever information you provided when you logged on. So,I know for instance that so and so uses Earthlink, or AOL, but that's about all.

Once in awhile a person's name shows up if they have an ADSL line which is registered as their personal name. These people are aware that their names show up in logs.

Some people give a name to their hard drive, and once in awhile I will see one of those. The only one I recall was "indigo". That was a fun one because it provided some heavy evidence to support a theory I'd been developing about one of our frequent(obsessive) lurkers.

This of course was all noticed back in the good old days when I could actually study the logs. Right now I just do a security check every day and move on. So, no paranoia please, no one is trying to track anyone down.

If people would like to remain super anonymous, my suggestion is that they use an email service like hotmail or yahoo and use a made up name.

I know that the police could track a computer right to a person's house from their postings on the internet, so, theoretically so could a really good hacker.

That would mean though, that someone would have to have access to our logs first and then know what to do with them. I suppose therefore, that it is possible, but first and foremost it would be a federal offense for anyone to do so...

I review the logs regularly for any signs of tampering or unusual activity. If I see something I don't understand, I stick with it until I know exactly what I'm looking at.

Doing this has made me a bit of an expert on internet security and reading logs.

I know a lot, but I have no idea how to track anyone back to their actual identity.

If I had a reason to know someone's identity, due to illegal or threatening activity, I would turn the information over to the police and let them do the work.

Ok, all that on security.

The nicest thing is that until recently I was personally acquainted with most of the posters (and some lurkers) here via e-mail, phone or personal meetings.

In the early days we had a lot of monkey business going on here (way back in Sept-Feb)
in the form of obsessive log ons, weird e-mail, and quite a few hit and run anonymous posters. We have had quite a few visits from some pretty high powered law firms too. Given that we are within our First Amendment rights, and Jach is not, I don't think they thought it a good idea to pursue us. I suspect that Peny found that enormously frustrating.

That has all calmed down quite a bit of late.

So,to me, the best security is in just coming out of the closet.

I realize that some people don't want to lose access to the Forum or the seminars, or for whatever reason don't choose to come out,
but I will say that those of us who have gotten to know each other feel a heightened sense of trust and confidence in each other, or not, in some cases, but we have more information from which to make that determination.

The other thing is, that for Jach to ban anyone from the Forum or seminars because of participation here, he'd have to admit that he or one of his Gang is reading here, and he will never do that.

Anyway, thanks for asking, Ted and I are into reasonable disclosure and we do support confidentiality. The two of us, along with our provider are legally responsible for this site. We have legal counsel who we review and confer with from time to time about this site.

I've said this before too, that we do not promise to guard every confidence we are asked to keep, but we do promise to do our best to, unless it would be unethical, illegal, or harmful to anyone should we do so. So far, I don't think we've blown anyone's privacy or confidence.

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions. If not, feel free to ask more.

Katie

I read all the thread you refered me to and you haven't convinced me about Lazaris being a scam yet. I need more proof than Jach putting in a few ugly and manipulative words, pretending that it all comes from Lazaris.

How do you know for sure that Lazaris isn't real? I don't see any proof in the thread. Jach could be channeling Lazaris and sometimes be pretending.

I'm still convinced that it is so. I'll say it again: Jach couldn't pull that off, it's too intelligent, too complex, too loving, too human, too compassionate etc. etc.

You'll have to give me real proof before I can possibly agree with your point of view!

Helena

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I'm very happy that you say Jach is an impure channel

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Really? why would that make you happy?

Also, then why would it make you trust the material? How can you tell when it's Jach and when it's Lazaris?

You say that Jach isn't smart enough to pull this off, but if the channeling isn't clear, is Jach then inserting some of his own information, if so, how do you know which, and why doesn't Lazaris tell us that when he is "in charge"?

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He is not that intelligent, doesn't have that beautiful sense of humor, and isn't so compassionate at all.

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Yet, he is smart enough to thwart Lazaris?

I wrote a post earlier today about stories and experiences which indicate that Lazaris isn't so compassionate, and that his sense of humor is sometimes at the expense of others, a fact obvious only to those who are the butt of the joke, or the charming little story.

The thread Ted linked to is beyond proof enough to me that if that's Lazaris up there at Magic Time, that is one rotten foul energy. I know these people, and love them deeply. I also know why they were abused and manipulated.

If it isn't Lazaris up there at Magic Time, don't you think a refund and boycott is in order? Maybe a few lawsuits or a fraud investigation?

You refer to Lazaris as

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an extremely intelligent and loving source of information.

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Then, why don't they provide us with the information about what is going on within Con:Sin, and is it loving or helpful to allow it?

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They managed the impossible. To turn a beautiful and pure material into something evil.

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So Jach isn't too bright, and we know that Peny wasn't either healthy, energetic, or very engaging, but together they managed to subvert an enlightened and loving being?

Why, if that was the case, did Lazaris continue to come through Jach? Do you mean to say that he would allow evil to be perpetrated in his name and never say or do anything about it?

I think it is the mark of a successful criminal that very few would ever suspect them of committing their devious acts.

Do you think that if Jach were faking it he would talk and behave exactly the same way in both identities. Remember Superman and Clark Kent?

I also know that Jach is hardly the bumbling sweet little teddy bear he pretends to be. I've had first hand interactions with Jach in another role you'd probably have a very hard time believing was Jach. I don't know how you can feel so sure of your evaluation of him, how much contact have you had with him to be so sure of who he is and what he is capable of?

I know people who met Jach outside of Con:Sin, people who had nothing to do with Lazaris, and the consensus is that he's a slick, slimy salesman. Have you considered the possibility that Jach is a sociopath? Do you know how charming they know how to be?
Read up on Ted Bundy, young, handsome, charming, mass torturer and murderer. His confessions came as an enormous shock to everyone who knew him. Even the cops had a hard time in the beginning.

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Maybe the thing about turning some of you guys against Lazaris was exactly what they, in their own little twisted, dark, unconscious minds, were up to.

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Again, why would Lazaris allow that, and how could it happen given that we all allegedly have access to Lazaris with no need of tapes or seminars? If Lazaris is communicating, do you think that Jach and Peny are completely in charge of that? How could they interfere with the direct communication Lazaris claims to engage in with us if we invite it? Can't you ask Lazaris about these things yourself?

quote:

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I am sure that it was never Lazaris' intention that his material should be used to abuse and control other people.

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Ok, but Lazaris creates his own reality, just as the rest of us, right? So, why would this being who is teaching us reality creation techniques be so inept at creating his own?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything anymore than I'm interested in having anyone convince me of anything, but honestly, your theory makes no sense to me.

It does make sense to me that you find it impossible to believe that Jach could perpetrate the scam, and that what Lazaris says makes a lot of sense to you. I think that's pretty much why most people keep hanging around. It sure isn't because of the charm and social graces of the Con:Sin Gang.

The only problem is that we can define and identify the same behaviors and tactics that Con:Sin uses to control people as are identified in other groups known to be cults.
If there was ever any doubt that this group is a cult, they were obliterated over these past few weeks full of shocking secrets, control of information, restriction of freedom of thought, feeling and behavior, sudden death and suicide.

Cult leaders have mastered mind control. Hypnosis is one of the most effective ways to implant beliefs. This is a scientific fact. Another fact is that a lot of people are very invested in believing a lot of things that don't make sense, and are not born out by experience or observation. We are still waiting for one story of a really stellar unprecedented success. Where is the evidence that anything Lazaris says is valid, especially anything Lazaris says that can't be read in the free public library?

You express your belief very clearly, and certainly I wouldn't take it upon myself to try to change your mind. I do feel compelled to ask those questions and share my observations though, I trust you understand my curiosity.

Katie

[This message has been edited by Katie (edited 06-03-2001).]

I guess we were posting at the same time.

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I need more proof than Jach putting in a few ugly and manipulative words, pretending that it all comes from Lazaris.

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Proof from who? Noone is begging you to agree with them here. You are free to take or leave whatever you like here, just as you do with the Lazaris materials. Do you think we're getting a kickback on every person we lure away from Lazaris?

I am curious though, since you demand proof from your information sources, what proof has Lazaris provided?

Helena, I think you have us wrong here. I don't know of any lapsed Lazarian here who has an agenda to convince anyone away from Lazaris. We're here chatting and sharing, and we all have many different theories about a lot of things.

I can't prove that Lazaris isn't real, nor do I wish to. I don't really care. Whatever, or whoever, they are no friend of mine.

It is possible to hold a belief without the need for anyone else to share it. Actually, I think that's what defines a belief.

Katie

Thank you for your welcoming!

Nancy and Bluebird - I also feel that I met Lazaris at the right time in life. The info was amazing to me when I picked it up for the first time. The "I create my own reality" concept was so empowering. I'd never heard it before.

However, I feel extremely grateful that I was too lazy (or maybe it was my ADD )to get really really involved with the actual seminars. And I feel empowered once again by making the choice to move on. To be honest, I'm starting to not really care if he's real or not. There are so many other things I want to look at spiritually. (Although, last night, I started to freak myself out thinking I might get a visitation from an evil pissed-off Lazaris. I don't like visitations.)

I too wonder how Jach could possibly have pulled off a fake Lazaris for 30 somethin' years. But damn, Katie you make some really great points! I also checked out some of the thread that TedV gave to Helena. Eye-opening for me. So sad about the mother and daughter. I remember that experience in the forum.

I started reading the cult threads and went to some of the sites. I couldn't believe it! Went down the check lists - I had to laugh! Me?!! In a cult?!!! Even though I didn't shave my head or move to a compound? Oh crap!

Anyway, I know I sound like a kid in a candy store, but I feel so liberated! I'm glad to have found this place, it's helped me to push off toward exploring more about myself and the Universe.

Thanks again,
Lilly

quote:

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(Although, last night, I started to freak myself out thinking I might get a visitation from an evil pissed-off Lazaris. I don't like visitations.)

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quote:

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(Although, last night, I started to freak myself out thinking I might get a visitation from an evil pissed-off Lazaris. I don't like visitations.)

---

No need to worry. Lazaris often said that he never got angry or upset.

Lazaris says he has moved beyond the levels where fear and anger are a part of their reality.

Lazaris also emphatically states that they long ago moved past the need to be a guru and that they were completely unwilling and uninterested in fulfilling that role.

So no need to fear Lazaris, unless Lazaris lied and is some low level nasty in which case I think a simple dose of white light should act as an can of astral "Raid".

There is another visualization, very old I think, maybe Wiccan where when you sense someone sending you negative harmful energy you visualize all that energy in the form of a beautiful rose and see it explode and sent back to the recipient.

It is a nice "with harm to none" visualization that transforms the negativity of the sender by your intent not to be harmed.. I like it

Now I have to say you might get a "visitation" from an angry and pissed of "Jach" but thats nothing to be concerned about, just remember like many vicious entities he is more afraid of you than you are of him and a simple dose of your common earthbound "Raid" should send him gasping for the hills.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

quote:

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Originally posted by Nancy:
LOL! For some reason this completely cracked me up... Thanx Lilly

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Good laughs are always great!

Hi, Nancy.

I find myself strongly aligned with you, in many ways. There are others in here who probably feel similarly.

I agree that Jach, though smart, is not smart enough for the INFORMATION.

I would add that NO HUMAN is capable of the superhuman or supernatural that I have witnessed.

People who try or demonstrate discrediting of others or their views can be labeled "debunkers." You will never get a debunker to let go, change their mind, retreat. There are lots of people in here whom I would/could label "debunkers." You will never offer them enough proof, either. Nothing you say or add will suffice. It'll always be 'show me something else.'

Our minds are really tenacious. I think this is a great part of being human though really frustrating when others aren't in the same camp as we are.

Understanding Lazaris is even more of a mystery these days than it used to be, and that was enough. The association with Jach and 'the gang' is very disturbing but I, like you, am not willing to throw the towel in. The things that are positive way outweigh the negative for me. It is fascinating that we can always come up with yet another explanation for everything. Scientists, who study certain things obsessively, are constantly coming up with explanations...only to have them superceded later on by yet someone else. I don't think the people in here have any final answers. They have lots of passion and lots of motivations and are finding lots of comfort in "thinking" that they have the answer now, but, in my opinion, the final answer hasn't been made visible yet (or, we aren't paying attention to it.)

Thanks so much for taking time to detail the anonmity and security involved with the site. No doubt you will get asked the same question with every new bunch of lurkers.

So one last question and I'll stop. Who is the owner of the Cosmic Fool site. I note that there are other sections but I have not had time to visit them.

quote:

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Bluebird,
I'm very happy that you say Jach is an impure channel. I am of the exact same impression. I was listening to a Lazaris tape yesterday, and when I compare that with what I've heard coming from Jach, it makes it absolutely clear to me that Lazaris is not a scam.

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I have thought and thought about all of this, as we all have. The disparity between the cult like behavior of CS and the love I feel from Lazaris is so bizarre, it is indeed troubling.

I think the trick for me is to take what I can from the teachings without adopting the cult like behavior of giving my power away to either Lazaris or CS.

It is interesting to read the many posts and points of view here. As someone said, if someone is committed to a view --say that Lazaris is a fraud, no miracle of mine will suffice to change their mind. Conversely, if I'm committed to Lazaris being real then no story of his meanness will disenchant me. We each do create different realities and see the world through our own particular prism.

What I do think is important is that many of us have had nagging feelings about CS and in many cases have given our power away to them. This site has been a huge wake up call.

AS for Jach being less than a clear channel, that is just my belief. I have a couple of friends who are great channels and they say that at times they are clearer than other times.

I have spoken with others and we have all noticed that the content became a little less gripping a couple of years ago, coincidentally when crystals were being hawked like no tomorrow. So is the message getting murky due to greed? I really don't know.

Best,
Bluebird

quote:

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I would add that NO HUMAN is capable of the superhuman or supernatural that I have witnessed.

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Why do you keep refrencing these superhuman and supernatural events that you witnessed if you don't want to discuss them?

an aside:

for those who haven't read all the threads this is the umpteenth time Fingerprince has alluded to these supernatural experiences that he refuses to elaborate on

If you don't want to discuss them fine, but why do you dangle it like a carrot over and over again?

One could easily assume you very much want someone to beg you or that you want a certain kind of attention by continually offering the potential of a revelation but no results.

Again, if you don't want to talk about it fine, but why always refer to it?

What are you getting out of that?

I can tell you from my persective it is tedious.

People who offer great insight are a dime a dozen, deliver or don't but half measures are a boring manipulation of attention.

So my request to you is deliver or stop making references to events you either cannot or are unwilling to define and expand upon.

Its just boring.

I dont doubt that you had the experiences, just what your agenda is in offering them only in the abstract.

To get attention?

To tease?

Btw, I have not drawn any conclusions as to who or what Lazaris is and you will note if you read through the site that I have talked about the value of the material over and over.

So my agenda is not to "debunk" Lazaris but to find out the truth.

If you have something to contribute to that I would welcome it.

If you have only the interest in teasing with bits of information you have no intention of revealing fully, then I respectfully ask you to stop doing that.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

A major flaw in your theory that when one is committed to a belief, nothing can change that: a year and a half ago, I was committed to the belief that Lazaris is who they claim to be. I no longer believe it. People can change.

As you may have figured out, Katie and I are husband and wife. We own the site and the domain name, cosmicfool.com. I am the webmaster, meaning I installed the software and deal with technical issues. Katie got the site listed high on the search engines.

I registered the cosmicfool domain before I lost faith in Lazaris because I liked the sound of it and I do consider myself to be a cosmic fool. That the name works so well in this role of questioning sacred cows is a bit of syncronicity.

Katie you wrote:
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Also, then why would it make you trust the material? How can you tell when it's Jach and when it's Lazaris?
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I can't tell. Maybe in the situation with the mother and daughter it was easy to tell, I am sure that at other times it's not, e.g. the Peny endorsement.

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Yet, he is smart enough to thwart Lazaris?
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Yes! I would say he is!

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Why, if that was the case, did Lazaris continue to come through Jach? Do you mean to say that he would allow evil to be perpetrated in his name and never say or do anything about it?
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This is exactly where it doesn't compute.

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If Lazaris is communicating, do you think that Jach and Peny are completely in charge of that? How could they interfere with the direct communication Lazaris claims to engage in with us if we invite it? Can't you ask Lazaris about these things yourself?
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Maybe you can. It was probably a lie when Jach said that he is the only possible channel.
I think Lazaris could be a neutral source of information, recordings already made in a higher realm. If you finetune your antenna, you could possibly yourself pick up the info.
If Lazaris is a neutral source from a higher level, that Jach happened to tap into, wouldn't that explain why Lazaris is not interfering. A neutral recording just simply wouldn't interfere.
Another possibility could be that it would be wrong for Lazaris to interfere in anybody elses free will.

And katie, about the "proof" thing, that was a conversation between me and Ted. I was responding to Ted providing me with proof, I wasn't saying that all of you are trying to convince me.

I have like Fingerprince, experienced Lazaris close up and personal, in a way that convinces me that he is real. Now it's said here that Fingerprince doesn't want to share his experience. I do, if I can?
But it is really difficult to describe a deep soul meeting with words. I'll try though.

When I met Lazaris I met him/them as an incredible light. During their workshop I was continously bathed in love. He recognized me and I recognized him, and it wasn't Jach, I can asure you. I received a very deep transmission, and I was in love.

After that experience it is really difficult for me to call Lazaris a scam.
Why he would choose such ugly people to come through, is strange.

Why did he not interfere? I'm just guessing why, but I don't know. It doesn't compute and I am confused.

Helena

A few general comments. First, posting on forums is a lot different than communication via person-to-person interaction. When we read posts I think we each interpret them through our own filters, especially since we don't have verbal and physical clues as to what the sender means.

I think I may have misinterpreted a couple of posts I have responded to, and if I have, I apologize.

Also I would like to clarify that I am very aware of the pain and damage that C:S has inflicted. I just didnt' happen to experience it myself, besides perhaps being played for a sucker.

Finally, I would like to thank Katie and Ted again for this site and to salute the COURAGE of all of us who are determined to follow our spiritual paths, regardless of the pitfalls along the way.

Nancy

Thanks for your reply, it's quite provocative.

The experience you report having had with Lazaris is one that I also had many many times over the years. I remember several occasions when the energy was so intense that it literally manifested in my physically, once I could feel myself being cradled like a baby, and the sensation was so real and clear that it scared me.

During that experience, which was the result of me asking for help in a very difficult and confusing moment, I was literally taken through a process of visualization and rememberance, right back to the cradle. It was very very intense. I was given a very clear understanding that my issue in the moment was fear, and that I was feeding my fear with self-pity, a trick I had learned as an infant. Let me tell you, it was profound!

About a month later I got the Lazaris Fear tape, as I recall it was just released, and lo and behold, every word I had heard in my private experience was on that tape, almost verbatum. Tell me that didn't solidify my belief!

Helena, you are talking to some people here, myself and Ted included who were among the most serious and devoted followers.

I have had more mind shattering, glorious experiences and insights through the Lazaris years than I could ever recount. I am one who could provide the kind of experiences and successes that we keep begging to hear from others. My life is manifesting far and beyond my wildest dreams or expectations.

That soul wrenching, cold clammy fear that lived in the pit of my stomach all my life was lifted during that experience I just mentioned, and I have not revisited it since.
That experience literally changed my life.

So did my initiation to Magicianship. That was a sacred private event that I wrote about in the Forum, a few months before Lazaris provided our initiation, during the 99 culminating weekend, and again at the Millennium intensive.

So, why my disbelief then? And trust me, I am as strong and firm in my disbelief in the existance of Lazaris as I am a believer in my own experiences.

You speak of confusion, Ted, Marilyn and I, along with input from a few others,went through the most intense process of sorting through that confusion than probably anyone could imagine. It was the most intense time of my life, bar none. I had to know.

I could try to elaborate on a process that took my full and complete attention for months on end, but here it is in a nutshell.

I finally realized that the only realness in my experience came from my own desire, intention, will, and efforts. If nothing else, I had learned to trust myself and my ability to discern.

So, I applied those same tried and true methods to get to the bottom of this confusion. Finally, I just let go of the mental gymnastics, and once again, asked, from a place of surrender and openness. I became fully and completely willing to know the truth, and I wasn't sure which truth was going to make me feel better.

I've written about this here many times before, but once again, after a night of vivid dreams, and the presence of a palpable energy which over the years I had named "Lazaris", I awoke to the answer searing itself in my brain. That answer is posted on the Friend or Fraud portion of the site. The words themselves could never convey the depth of the meaning and the resonance with which they came, or the sense of complete peace they brought. That morning, the turbulence ended for me.

From that moment on, I have been at complete peace about the realness and value of Lazaris. I was told that there simply is never ever such an arrangement as that claimed to be made between Jach and Lazaris, simply because it would not make sense, or be fair, not to the "channel", the "entity" or the followers. No such arrangement between a truly "helpful and loving entity"
and any human. Those were the words.

It was not explained to me how Jach might have pulled all this off. That is still a point of speculation for me, and it is the reason that I don't have any mission to save or change anyone from their own process of knowing the Truth. This was a personal truth, like my personal initiation. I have a belief in holding on to any gift which is given to me, out of respect for the energy and love of the giving. For that reason, our house is full of some very unusual items which serve no purpose other than to remind us that someone was loving us when they gave the gift. I'm not a "re-gifter". Those Seinfeld fans amongst us know that re-gifts aren't much appreciated.

This site is here to discuss and share. I can tell you for sure that it never was and never will be Ted's or my purpose to evangelize or preach an Anti-Lazaris gospel.

The Truth exists on many levels and contains many paradoxes. To me, the key to the Truth is to recognize its resonance, then stick with that resonance, and build upon it.

For me, and many others that resonance is present in our beliefs about the realness of Lazaris, or the evilness of Con:Sin.

We are all building here, building on the resonance of Truth, that I very much believe.

It really isn't up to anyone to tell another what the Truth is, other than an incontrovertible fact which might provide a building block. There have been many of those reported here. Each of us can choose to use them or not. Some of us may choose to use them to build our foundation, and some may choose to save them for the "walls, or the "roof" of our Truth structure. Some may reject them completely. We are each the architect of our own abode. I suppose the only "proof" of the viability of our building blocks is in the strength, beauty, and functionality of our structure.

I understand your confusion, there is much that still confuses me also, that is why I am in the ceaseless quest for uncontrovertible facts with which to construct my mansion. I'm willing to patiently and diligently mine the information and experiences that are shared here and which come from other sources. That is why we continuously extend a welcome to all and any who come with an interest in sharing.

As to those carpetbaggers who arrive with a bag full of plastic Legos and use every sleazy sales technique in the book to pander them off on us, well, all I can say, is to each their own. One thing I'm quite confident about is that no plastic hammer can knock down what I have built, and that people who try will find themselves with nothing more than bleeding knuckles, and the question from me "why not build your own house, and leave mine alone?".

I wish you well and Godspeed in your process Helena, and appreciate the honest and vulnerable contribution you make.

Katie

Just a quick note to let you know that the quote about Jach being an impure channel wasn't mine. It was Helena's.

Now, may I ask you a question?

Are you suspicious that there is someone besides me and Ted behind this website, or that there are ulterior motives at work here?

My curiousity, hope you don't mind me asking.