For anyone lurking and not writing, I can only guess what you're thinking. It sure isn't hard to guess what the regulars in here are thinking about.

Please note how I mentioned some facts and they were ignored (vis a vis Lazaris noting jewelry, clothes, etc.) Ted offered the only rebutal of substance and he is so incredibly wrong on this that when I read his reply my jaw dropped! Up to that point in time I had thought he had done a real good job of presenting his arguments. If even he is willing to subvert the truth, however, then there really is no hope of catching a glimpse of a greater good in here, I don't believe.

Lazaris conducted the crystal ceremonies with eyes completely shut and did remarkable and superhuman things during these times. He didn't consult with anyone. He was only approached by Gerald (for a couple years,) then replaced by Mary Beth (a few more years,) then Talor (yet more, until a year or two ago.) Each of those individuals approached to remind him of time. He claims his energy is focused in physical form at that time, which may in part explain the time/timeless paradox. You, the reader, can choose to not believe this, of course.

I don't know who Lazaris is. I only know that he goes far deeper than anyone else I've ever known. You have the opportunity to make your own choices, naturally. You're the only one who can decide. While many of the arguments that I have read in here have been good, informative and provocative, the same arguments that they use in regards to equating Lazaris to the organizers of Lazaris events and products can be made to the people in here. I don't believe that I'm the only one in here who sees the rage, hostility and frustrated humanity that purports to love while dishing out the most incredible vile imaginable (I can easily single Steve out for this; yet he is applauded by a few real wigged out supporters, I think.)

As I stated earlier, I'm not hurt. These people aren't heroic, they're pathetic. They're looking for scapegoats for whatever their lives are about. They've had the greater part of a year to move on and yet here they are still.

Their most recent purpose is to dispose of me, because I present a view that is unacceptable to them. Their hypocrisy is undeniable and overwhelmingly obvious. Notice how many jumped into this thread to support and egg the others on? "Yeah, you go, girl!"

This is the new freedom of speech. This is character in action. This is love!!

It was fascinating to watch their complaints of my desire to keep something private, and my repeated statements to that effect, calling me manipulative, though they pushed to know why I had a loyalty (which is in my ultimate analysis hinged on that private event) but never commented on *their* repetitions. Go back to the beginning of this website. Compare the titles started six months ago with titles today. Virtually the same. Repetition, repetition, repitition. If they can repeat their mantra over enough times, you'll believe it! (Or, that is their hope.) Katie even brought some topics back to the forefront. How scared are they that someone will miss their points?

Katie, you're awesome! You are truly a master! Master Manipulator! It may have escaped the others but I see it in virtually every other post. If and when you are done skewering Lazaris and C:S, along with anyone who finds genuine value in either who dares to admit it, who next?

You pushed others out before me; you can pat yourself whereever that feels good in knowing that you've succeeded in doing similarly with me. No one who isn't masochistic or disturbed will hang around with you in here for long and that includes me. You can continue abusing others while accusing them of abusing you. Nice twist.

Some of the things you are attempting to charge against me are nothing but mean-spirited and cold-hearted, futile efforts of desperate, empty souls.

I thank those of you reading who sent me email of support (another irony:...I had no other way to communicate with one person, whose email I did not have, and I'm reviled, as is she, because I dared to thank her publically.) It's not a cause I care to continue in, however. It really is a shame so many others are afraid to stand and be counted. As in the C:S forum, apparently (as I know it was in the J&L room,) silence implies tacit approval.

Anyway, this isn't as much fun for me as it is for you "dirty dozen" (or so) in here.

My advice to anyone who comes in here is to not be fooled into thinking that, in an amazingly similar fashion as their despised forum, just because they say they believe in freedom of speech and welcome opposition, what they really seek is dominance, and will not hesitate to enact that at any price to any person.

For a possible explaination of what's going on in the above post, please see http://www.bpdcentral.com/, also discussed in the "Shades of Gray" topic. Not to play amateur psychiatrist, but this pattern is sure familiar.

Katie, what about starting a whole new forum, not just offering a topic here Lazaris forum, for people who still believe in Lazaris but what to discuss things outside the control of Concept:Synergy. That might make things a bit more comfortable for those folks, and they could play there however they liked. (Maybe this is hard to do or adds extra administrative burden, but if not, it seems worth a try.)

Like Mr. P, I've also read some of the earlier threads and noticed some repetition. While there are a few people who've been here a while, lots of people come and go and not everyone carefully reviews all the old material before they bring something up. The "old timers" seem pretty patient about engaging in discussions with newcomers, even if the topic has been covered before.

I have noticed that the tone here has evolved as more people have found their voice and gained confidence, so even when topics come up over and over, there are new insights and viewpoints, and it's not as repetative as it might superficially appear.

Maybe someday an ambitious volunteer with lots of time will offer to edit the material here, extracting helpful links and references and organizing some the the major substantive topics, so the material is more accessible to newcomers.

And, since this thread is supposed to be about newcomers reading here, I would recommend that it's very worthwhile to go back and look at early posts (you need to specify "show all posts" to see everything). There's a lot of valuable material.

Yours,
Melinda

First -- I can't agree with you more -- and with the overwhelming cosmicfool majority! fingerprince sure does walk/talk/squawk like a: Lazaris cult mind-poisoned, socially castrated (thanks! Katie ), desperatly aging, sexually manipulating POORLY (lol! -- past the age of wise wrinkles -- "haaaaarmonious hippie pheromones" become: just more filthy, rotting body odor ) pathetic "new age bodywork" martyred incubus.

quote:

---

One final point--Steve makes me laugh on a regular basis and I appreciate his "no shit no shine" approach, but I think he was off base in his reply to you--I read nothing in your post supporting the idea he was "dumb dumb/ing" you for holding on to (buying into the "Lazarus/mind over matter" thing; as I read it, your post wasn't about validating the content of Fingerprince's levitation posts, but the way his posts were being received in general--imo, Steve reacted to something you hadn't written) and from what you've said here, you haven't struck me as particularly stubborn or cotton-earrish (certainly no more than I am.)

---

In regard to Helena's basis for leaving and my description of her as behaving like a "cotton eared dumb dumb" -- gotta stick by that.

In her defense of fingerprince's IMO cult mind controlled, discermment-damaged position she does indeed -- by dangerous default -- support his view of mind-over-matter abilities on the part of "Lazaris" (which I DO believe ..IT has btw) giving him validity as a spiritual authority.

RegardLESS of his SOUL / EMOTIONALLY VIOLENT abuse of the spiritual authority he has stolen from so many vulnerable, trusting people with his mind-over-matter abilities!!

THAT is IMO *VERY* DANGEROUS (TO OTHERS READING ALONG HERE) -- cotton eared dum dumb behavior floruitt.

Cheers to ya --

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

quote:

---

Each of those individuals approached to remind him of time.

---

quote:

---

He claims his energy is focused in physical form at that time, which may in part explain the time/timeless paradox. You, the reader, can choose to not believe this, of course.

---

quote:

---

I don't know who Lazaris is. I only know that he goes far deeper than anyone else I've ever known.

---

quote:

---

I don't believe that I'm the only one in here who sees the rage, hostility and frustrated humanity that purports to love while dishing out the most incredible vile imaginable

---

This speaks of a limited imagination.

quote:

---

Their most recent purpose is to dispose of me, because I present a view that is unacceptable to them.

---

Self flattery here.

Me thinks the Prince was building up to this oration all along. His last post could use some illustrative graphic work.

Jade

quote:

---

How scared are they that someone will miss their points?

---

It isn't a fear of having a point missed.

Repetition of points becomes the first and most natural response when someone is out of their depth in a conversation through ignorance or lack of ability.

Clearly I was optimistic that your lack of comprehension, lack of ability to focus and stay topic were the result of not having the full argument before you.

Won't make that mistake again

Talk about warmed over and oft repeated arguments. This Con:Sin spin you present probably verbatim from some Orlando Gang chieftan is as old as it gets.

Wouldn't it just be lovely for them if we all stopped thinking and posting?

This site was getting pretty quiet for awhile (bravo!) because it seemed there wasn't really a whole lot new to say.

Then Vata Bing....we get served up a new and even more charming dish than ever before, the death and suicide about which we are not allowed to speak or feel.

Well, if we were making money on this site, or getting brownie points in heaven for each post, I'd have to say "thank you Con:Sin, for sending people here in droves, starving for information."

Melinda, I think you really miss the point of this site in suggesting that anyone do some editing or organization of thoughts.

This is a free for all of thought and comment. The site is what it is, people can take it or leave it, comment or not comment.

I realize that's a difficult concept in a commercial world where everyone is trying to promote some agenda.

The only thing being promoted here is freedom of thought and speech, and you really can't cleverly market those things to people. Some accept it as a gift, and some think it's a cleverly wrapped poisoned snake.

For those who have never gotten past their own insatiable need to control or be controlled I guess this site looks pretty bad. I can understand that.

fp, a world class manipulator would have banned you and deleted your posts here long ago. That would be the work of your heros.
So, I see your problem. Some of us aren't acting like the bosses you need so badly, and the boss you would love to be. Sorry that I don't live up to your expectations or anyone else's.

So, now that you've let us know how sick and evil it is to continue to discuss the same topic, and to continue to hold on to anger, I suppose we can expect you to stop that now.

I'm quite sure you will have no problems living by your own rules.

I wish you and your cyber buddies all the best, and very much look forward to seeing your own perfectly balanced message board very soon. I trust you will let us know once you have gotten it together.

Say "hi" for me to your pals in Orlando, and please congratulate them for me on the quality of support they have.

Maybe now that you've let us know how compelling it is, Lazaris will start to know everybody's name at the seminars.

When he starts giving out social security numbers and mother's maiden name, I hope someone will come back and let us know.

Then we can all go home and beat ourselves for being so stupid, and won't that make you happy! Just think fp, you'll have your vindication!

It's been real.

Katie

LOL! For those of you who know Spikehole -- and consequently masturbate to visions of him nude, bound, and *gagged* -- while being wildly slapped-to-death by Mother Teresa foaming at the mouth -- I know: "head in the sand" is at absolute, rock bottom least a *gargantuan* understatement.

Wooooooooooo-Ah! WAS I gang banged?! Can you say double-wide watermellon anus?

It was not long after that I used the Mein Kampf forbiden "cult" word out f*cking loud in the Compuserve forum to describe the whole smelly, reconstituted Adolph Hitler turd smeared situation.

Was I the first -- anyone know? Oh GOD! That WOULD be a blood-spattered Loki contract agent's rason de *ultimate* anti spiritual fascist ICBMeme launch'n personal peppiness.

Let's see... Gurumai, Jose Arguellos, Bob Brinker, Rave Drugs in general, Amway..

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

You said:

quote:

---

Melinda, I think you really miss the point of this site in suggesting that anyone do some editing or organization of thoughts.

This is a free for all of thought and comment. The site is what it is, people can take it or leave it, comment or not comment.

---

I'm an editor and information person by temperament and profession, so I'm always thinking about the ways different people have of accessing and using information. I wasn't suggesting that the format of the site be changed--it's generated a lot of high-quality, thoughtful, reflective comments, discussion, and information.

I was just thinking that there's so much great material here that many people probably aren't able or willing to sort through it all. You can find certain topics using search, but it's unwieldy. An edited archive (not editing people's words but organizing by topic, maybe indexed and cross-referenced) would help newcomers find posts that spoke to their concerns or interests more easily. Also, it might create a more friendly, less intimidating introduction for newcomers. It would add additional value to the work you, Ted, and all the people who've posted here have already done.

But, it would be a big job to do well--a labor of love nearly equal to what you've already put in here, perhaps. And I'm not volunteering, so it's probably a moot point.

Think you may have misunderstood Melinda -- some there.

I see a good dose of overhelpfulness in her post -- at most.

No?

Email-style expressed intent can be difficult to fathom in long-hastle-heated connections.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

Hi Steve and Melinda,

I think I understand what you are saying Melinda. No complaints that you made the suggestion, it's just that I wouldn't like to think of giving someone the job of making the judgements as to the importance of any particular information here. Once you put someone "in charge" of something, no matter how seemingly innocent, you then have created a hierarchy of sorts. I'm not into it.

Ted and I are already being held as being the powerful ones here by right of our ownership of the site.

I guess I've always been an anarchist at heart. I think everyone should take responsibility and no one should be the boss.

We did at one time offer for anyone who is interested to contribute to the "Friend or Fraud" part of the site.

For that matter, someone could submit a whole new text based topic and promote it themselves as we have promoted the Friend or Fraud site.

Since Ted and I have done our own holding forth there, it would seem appropriate to allow for others to put their thoughts in too.

So, if anyone would like to write something for publication there, signed or anonymous that would be fine too.

If anyone wants to do the work of cataloging the information here, go ahead, all you have to do is hit the submit button, or send it to Ted as a text file and ask him to put it on the text portion of the site.

Once again, the rules are nothing illegal, threatening, and no unauthorized commercial information. Also, we're only interested in hosting information which is on topic.

Even if someone wants to submit a treatise on why this site is so horrible, that would be ok too. The whole point is that Ted and I have a lot of faith that most people are quite able to assimilate, digest, and form their own conclusions about information that is offered. We aren't here to do that for anyone, so all opinions and perspectives are welcomed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Katie

[This message has been edited by Katie (edited 06-08-2001).]

I plan to put up a HELP section as it's own forum, which will show on the opening page. It will explain how to find old threads, UBB code, icons, and all kinds of good stuff.

It will be a regular forum that all can post to, so if you have any good suggestions, please feel to post there. Some of us have been posting about using icons, quoting back, etc. But the posts get lost in the shuffle. This way it will be real obvious where the info is.

I expect to get to this sometime over the weekend.

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Brooks:
Think you may have misunderstood Melinda -- some there.

I see a good dose of overhelpfulness in her post -- at most.

---

Or underhelpfulness, since I'm making suggestions that I'm not planning to follow through on.

I'm not quite sure how to jump into what's been going on but since it seems like fingerprince is about to depart, I thought I better try.

FP has been the subject of a great deal of ridicule on this thread. I believe he has no objection to anyone's disagreeing with his beliefs. What he does have a problem with are his motives being continually subjected to a negative interpretation.

I have found this to be the case throughout many threads. L believers are invited to participate and promised fair treatment yet when they state their beliefs and why, they are demonized, not for their beliefs per se but for the imputed motives for holding such beliefs. Katie's treatment of dreamspring on the Lazaris and Hypnosis thread is a prime example.

In this particular thread Katie characterized FP as such:

quote:

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By anyone's standards, Lazaris or otherwise, fingerprince has abused the freedom to speak here more than any other poster… In Bizzaris Land, there is only one type of freedom and that is the freedom to subvert, lie, manipulate, and deceive.

---

I don't know how FP's reasoned posts and sincere beliefs can be construed as abusive. FP states his beliefs and why. Others, TedV in particular, have engaged him on a point by point basis without the need to attribute his arguments to lies, deception and manipulation. Why is it that believers' ideas must be the product of lies and deceptions while refuter's ideas are solely based on truth and unerring wisdom?

In response to this from FP:

quote:

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What I've been after from the beginning are those who are not visible, those who have fears or wounds and are looking for some relief. As I pointed out earlier, they get plenty of anger and disgust and righteousness from those who speak the loudest in here. My voice, as obnoxious as it is to you and a few others, is hopefully one of an alternative to your alternative.

---

Jeremiah wrote:

quote:

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Your messianic agenda is as obvious and attractive as a rash of boils.

You are just inching your way up that cross aren't you?...just don't forget the nails go in the wrists and ankles.. not the hands and feet..very messy that way..and a messy lookiing Savior is no good to anyone.

---

Obviously it can be amusing to hold someone up to ridicule. But what exactly is being accomplished? Of course you get to display your keen wit but did it ever occur to you that you might be wrong? Do you care that you might be wrong? Of course you would say FP gets to defend himself so it doesn't matter if you're wrong. It's an easy justification but it doesn't make it okay. In fact, even if your characterization were accurate, it still wouldn't be okay. Unless of course, you claim it your right to intentionally humiliate someone when you think they deserve it so that others may enjoy your wry sense of humor at their expense.

This site purports itself to be the opposite of the C:S forum, all are welcome (or at least given entrance), none are censored. This may be true but it hardly makes it the opposite. The true opposite would be if the spirituality that initially drew each one of us to Lazaris were actually practiced. Such a spirituality would not engage in the denigration and humiliation of others or their opinions. If we consider our own motives to be pure, why not give the benefit of the doubt and grant that purity to those we engage here? If upon engagement the motives do come into question, two options come to mind. Firstly, silence. Someone who truly intends deception or disrepect deserves no reply. The need to label and demonize only reinforces better thans and serves no other purpose. Secondly, state your truth. "This is what I feel when you say this… ." Always offer a way to save face. No harm is created and a reconciliation is always possible.

Spirituality is in our words, on this site in fact, it is only in our words. In those words there can be respect, fellowship, compassion, generosity. Do we really want to limit sharing these only with those who agree with us? Why create a needless separation? And equally important, here, unlike the forum, spirituality does not have to mean agreement. Why isn't it possible to have diverse opinions and still be spiritual? It is possible but only if we create it so.

No one here knows the validity of the source of the words attributed to Lazaris so no one here can claim sole proprietorship of the truth. Once we all recognize the opinions expressed here are only that and nothing more, it may be possible to finally drop our rigid defenses of those meaningless (more or less) constructs and share what we do know to be true, which happens to be our feelings. How do you feel about what L. says is much more interesting to me than if you believe in L. or not. We could have entire threads devoted to spirituality, love, respect, loneliness, etc, that would bring many more people out of the woodwork and create much more dynamic conversations than what we are presently experiencing. All here have all been inspired by L's words at one time or another. This site exists because of L. Granted, there is no longer admiration for L by many here but many of his ideas are still powerful food for thought.

Fingerprince, I hope you stay. Forgive me for the silence I held onto for so long. Getting involved is not easy, as you have demonstrated. I hope you, I and all who read this post can refocus our attention on those things that can truly elevate us, the shared feelings, beliefs and ideals of all who aspire to follow a spiritual path.

TedC

Thanks for jumping in. I have been thinking about posting something to the same effect but I just didn't want to take the time to go back and take on the issues involved on a point-by-point basis. However, I think you expressed yourself quite eloquently.

In my opinion, Fingerprince got treated the way he did not just because he believes in Lazaris, but because his arguments for that belief were not seen as persuasive and because apparently his personality was offensive to some.

In any case, I find the attacks and counter-attacks quite tiresome. I see lots of double-talk and hypocrisy and game-playing.

I agree that everyone has a right here to say what's on their mind and that is what's on mine.

I consider FP's post to be extremely manipulative and hostile and my perceptions of his posts remain unchanged.

I stand by my assesment of FP's posts and I understand that my anger and frustration obviously upstaged the content of what I was trying to say for you and some others.

Others saw it differently and so be it.

I don't quite get how you can't see the manipulations that Fingrprince played almost from his first post.

I don't see how you can claim that he was forthrightly stating his opinions.

I am not really in a position of being willing to "feel sorry" for expressing how disingenous I find his victim status to be.

In fact, I think its a crock.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

This conversation is over for me. I'm not going to participate in this diversion any longer.

I appreciate the comments you have all made, and the fact that you all have expressed concern for the well-being of the message board. I share that concern.

In that spirit, I'm not going to comment any further on this topic. It is clear to me that we have all come to our mutual places of understanding as to what is going on here.

Further discussion is just beating a dead horse.

This is my personal decision which I'm stating to make it clear why you won't be seeing me participate on this topic any longer.

I couldn't disagree with Ted C and Nancy more.

When we play the "nice steril dialogue" GAME, Nancy -- , we lay ourselves *completely vulnerable* to the kind of mindless VERY DANGEROUS TO THOSE CONSIDERING THE POTENTIAL HAZARDS OF LAZARIS cult blither dumped on us all here -- for months now by fingerprince.

To quote the Egg ..again (even Hitler had some wisdom one does suppose): "You just can't argue with a stupid person."

That does mean: it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to: 1)Reason with 2)Convince *or* 3)Exchange in productive dialogue with the stubbornly cult blind.

IMO it is clear to all -- willing to look that fingerprince is indeed: desperately Lazaris Cult mind-poisoned and stubbornly hanging on to that position by: 1)grounding an obviously weakening, aging sexually manipulative "new age bodyworker" false-esteem *in his opinion* of Lazaris as a valid spiritual authority AND 2) Basing his validation of Lazaris on ..it's ability to perform IMO *very real* mind-over-matter 'Sai Baba' tricks.

Jeremiah -- DANGEROUS irrationality can only be effectively faught -- with EMOTIONALLY INTENSE expressed rejection. Of the the cult-stubborn BEHAVIOR -- *NOT* the person.

See cult deprogramming techniques.

Trying to play "rational therapy sand (litter) box nicy-nice" will *only* suck you under to the point that you are no longer able to raise an EFFECTIVE angry voice against cult-blind stubborn behavioral psychotics -- like fingerprince.

Spirit-lethal crabs in a box -- indeed.

I see you being sucked under buy the IMO totally inapropriate guilt TedC and Nancy have been -- apparently successful in causing you to feel.

Be careful Jeremiah -- huh?

IMO -- should we let this become a "rational, steril therapy playpen" -- the original purpose, and power of this site -- a completely free-for-all (YES -- potentially violent) *unsensored* exposure of the Lazaris Cult will die a wimpering, pityful, castrated, "yuppie appropriate" cult zombie death.

TedC and Nancy -- if you want a steril, "nice", nutered, rational therapy playpen -- go hire a wallet parasite, do-nothing live-in-your-head demigod "therapist".

The rest of us? Read George Carlin's New York Times best seller: "Silly Putty and Napalm" -- and sharpen up that New Age Harpoon! Should this site be sucked under by guilt and "nicy nice" yuppie social castration -- I am MORE THAN fully prepared to go after FAR more blood and dead meat than Peny -- with my own well armed Spiritual "Berkeley Barb".

INTRACTABLE *spiritual authority abusing* fascist scumbags MUST be driven crazy -- and made to KILL themselves! It's the only principled, morally upstanding, legalized form of *satisfying* recreational murder left!

Audrey -- I want you on my editorial staff woman.

P.S. Katie -- I absolutely grock your exasperation here -- but we have got to keep punching. Damn the groundless guilt-spraying, boneless new age zombies -- full speed ahead -- !

Tell me you don't want Jose Arguellos' head mounted above your fireplace.

Let the solemn words:

quote:

---

"WOW! You people are sicker than I ever could have imagined!"

---

Right on... glad for the heads up..

Cheers,

You may not appreciate someone poking fun at the pomposity and self aggrandizement of someone playing victim/martyr, but you might want to bear in mind that Jeremiah hung in there an awfully long time before popping Fingerprince's balloon.

Here's an example of the kind of messy communication he's been dealing with:

Earlier in this thread, Jeremiah wrote:

"So one last time: I am not challenging you or your experiences. I simply do not see what profit can come from constantly bringing them up and refusing to discuss them, seems odd.. to what end?"

Fingerprince chopped it down to:

" ... seems odd.."

And replied to that highly edited quote with:

"Yeah, possibly. I'm as abnormal as anyone."

Editing a pointed but non-vitriolic question down to what *appears* to be an off-handed insult and then replying as if the person implied that you (and not the behavior) were "odd" seems pretty manipulative to me, TC.

It's a way of covertly coloring people's perception of the conversation, dropping in, bit by bit, statements that make it *look like* you're being personally attacked, instead of addressing the behaviour being directly enquired about--clearly, your mileage varies from mine, but I've seen several of these kinds of "in through the back door" underhanded comments in Fingerprince's posts to several people here, not just Jeremiah.

I have no problem with Fingerprince being as pissy as he wants to be with those who've handed out the same, but he's been playing games in posts in which that hasn't occured--that's dirty.

You wrote:

"Firstly, silence. Someone who truly intends deception or disrepect deserves no reply."

That was the method used by posters in the Forum when dealing with the Orlando Gang--I doubt people here want to revisit that method of non-communication.

You wrote:

"Secondly, state your truth. "This is what I feel when you say this… ." Always offer a way to save face. No harm is created and a reconciliation is always possible."

For the most part, I agree, but reconciliation with someone who won't directly address points raised in a conversation isn't just giving them a way to "save face", it's implicitly validating that method of communication--I don't think there can be an honest reconciliation when that kind of avoidance of impact is going on.

You wrote:

"Do we really want to limit sharing these only with those who agree with us?"

You seem to be equating people's objections to *how* Fingerprince has been arguing with the argument itself.

In Fingerprince's first post to this group, he was very up front about his belief in Lazarus and the response from people was positive and welcoming (Katie even used the expression "heartfelt wisdom" to characterize his post, iirc.)

If the controversy were only about The Debunkers Vs. the Faithers (the jets vs. the sharks!) why the open arms when he first appeared?

Is it possible that choosing to use that welcome as an opportunity to lecture those who welcomed him on how to communicate with more kindness, while unkindly insulting this group as banal and empty, might have been the beginning of the lack of trust?

Is it possible that his unwillingness to ever address that comment dug him in deeper in terms of people being able to continue to "give him the benefit of the doubt"?

He ignored posts asking him specifically about that, contenting himself with a reply to Jeremiah that went off on a non responsive tangent about therapy; well, if you're familiar with the Lazaris material, you know that EFKAL categorizes that method of communication as classic passive aggressive manipulation--hiding an insult in (not so) seemingly benign words, refusing to take responsibility for the impact of your words when asked to do so and then going off on a meaningless tangent to obfuscate the conversation.

That song and dance felt very reminiscent of the style of the Orlando Gang to me and since Fingerprince followed it up with more of the same, I'm not buying the argument that he's just been innocently posting his thoughts while being unfairly savaged by "the dirty dozen".


You wrote:

"Getting involved is not easy, as you have demonstrated."

Well, I think the problem is he never actually got involved--he just wanted to say what he thought in the manner he chose, without ever involving himself in people's reactions to that choice.

flo

quote:

---

For the most part, I agree, but reconciliation with someone who won't directly address points raised in a conversation isn't just giving them a way to "save face", it's implicitly validating that method of communication--I don't think there can be an honest reconciliation when that kind of avoidance of impact is going on.

---

FP ignored at least one of my posts, maybe two in which I brought up IMO valid points for consideration in response to his posts. Had this same experience with DreamSpring. My posts were in the same tone as the lengthy post I sent to you. I got avoidance. But let it go.

Also, I was not the only one who posted to Steve about not liking attacks or enneagram classifications in reference to his post to FP. Finally, I find myself grouped as one of "you people", "Dirty Dozen" in FP's final pompous pulpit post.

In the same way that FP zeroed in on "odd" in Jeremiah's post, he focused his attention on what he felt was negative in a few posts, then attributed that feeling to a collective. So then it's him against sicko us, reaching out to the pained and confused masses.

Also want to comment on the post you made to me to which Katie responded critically. I wasn't offended by your post. I thought you responded well to her comments. IMO you are respectful and have the respect of other posters.

At one point, Katie also expressed that she felt offended by FP's words, but he became very defensive. That and Steve's post accelerated this moss collecting rock moving down the mountain. However, I believe FP brought the rock with him. He came here not with openess, but an agenda.

I appreciate your opinion and your posts Ted.

Jade

Thanks for your support. It's always appreciated!

Steve,

If anyone who disagrees with you is a "INTRACTABLE *spiritual authority abusing* fascist scumbag," what more can be said? You and I need no further discussion.

Jeremiah,

I believe your characterization of FP as manipulative comes from his repeatedly bringing up his "convincing" experience with L. and not discussing it. Okay. You did make that point several times and he never addressed it. I don't wish to become his defender but I can say that I view such comments in a different light. First, the initial comment wasn't addressed to you (at least in this thread), so you are free to ignore it. Second, I don't think he was trying to convince anyone of anything by making it, but just reinforcing why he does believe. You already know he believes so what difference does it make why? You don't want to convert him, do you? It was rude to ignore you repeated inquires as to why he brings it up. Hostility? FP is definitely put off by the comments he has garnered in his time here. I would have handled them differently. People get in a reactive mode sometimes. He has apologized on more than one occasion. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Floruitt,

You had quite a bit to say, thank you. My take is that FP is dealing with people who cut him very little slack. Perhaps his replies could have been handled differently but I don't see the Machiavellian motives that you do behind them. We will have to agree to differ on our perceptions.

Since I have no experience with the forum, I don't know how silence went over there. But I won't engage anyone who doesn't respect me. What's the point, to be disrespected further? If the majority of people treat me that way, then yes, I'm on the wrong board and it's time to move on. Again, FP was rude in not addressing Jeremiah's pointed comments. See above. My take on FP is different than yours, probably because I have some sympathy for his views. The exception J. took with him was on comments not addressed to him. Perhaps he would have framed his reply differently if he was addressing J.

There is no need for me to be FP's defender here. If he wishes to defend himself, he can. My initial post was to offer some support. If people don't like his posts, don't address him. I don't see him trying to dominate people who don't want to converse with him.

I too have run into problems "getting involved." My motives for involvement were also questioned before anyone knew who I was. We all have different ways of expressing our ideas. It's not necessary to add judgements to how we react to ideas. As you demonstrated in your thoughtful post. I appreciated it a lot. Thanks.

TedC

quote:

---

I believe your characterization of FP as manipulative comes from his repeatedly bringing up his "convincing" experience with L. and not discussing it. Okay. You did make that point several times and he never addressed it.

---

One of them, yes but certainly not the only manipulation.

quote:

---

You already know he believes so what difference does it make why? You don't want to convert him, do you?

---

Have you read what I have written on this board? I have no position to convert him too.

quote:

---

I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt

---

From his first appearance, I gave him every benefit of the doubt until it bacame clear that to coninue to do so was foolish.

For further clarification as to what I am talking about please read the whole exchange.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, go right ahead. I am past that point.

Ted C, I notice many similarities between your posts [style, expression etc.] as Chris "Dreamspring". Are you by any chance the same person?

I won't be writing anymore on the FP issue having covered everything I have to say about it.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

You said:

quote:

---

I appreciate the comments you have all made, and the fact that you all have expressed concern for the well-being of the message board. I share that concern.

---

and:

quote:

---

It is clear to me that we have all come to our mutual places of understanding as to what is going on here.

---

Thank you for that. I agree wholeheartedly. Time to move on to other things. I see there are several new interesting posts up. Think I'll go check them out!

I am one of those people who has been reading for awhile, and not posting. I am going through some big life changes right now, and being a bit slow, it takes me more than 33 sec. ;-) to post! I am also very concerned with anonymity, which I think I have covered. Someone please let me know if this is not true!

Thank you, Katie and Ted, for this open forum. I learned of this site shortly before the Orlando death debacle, and have followed many threads with interest.

I have been working with Lazaris and the material for well over 15 years. I never got involved in the Forum, as I didn't get "wired" early on, and then didn't like what I had heard about the Forum. I was aware of extreme right-wing political views, which I found odd, and had a sense of the inner circle mentality that has been discussed here. I also sensed there was a lot of pressure to conform, and had already developed opinions about a lot of things about C:S and the way they did business, and especially the triumverate, that I didn't feel good about. I was also told about some behavior that seemed disturbing, but I did not know the extent of it until reading posts here. (Except for being told about a staff member who was hounded and humiliated awhile ago.)

I had met and seen Peny many years ago, several different times, including at some workshops. (These weird numerological spellings, btw -- gadzooks!) I had also heard her on the "Lazaris and Peny" tapes. I found her to be rude, odd in an uninteresting way, a bit frightening, and unpleasant, for the most part. I did not sense that she was especially enlightened or inspiring. Of course I second-guessed myself for many years: I must be jealous because Lazaris came to talk to her and not me, or everyone. I must be intimidated because she is so honest, and not a martyr, like me. I must just be dense not to perceive how great she is.

The last time I had the opportunity to interact with her and the entourage, at the Millenium, I had no desire to do so. I think I must have been in the process of getting sick from the "exquisite gourmet vegetarian feast" we had been led to look forward to for a year or two! More on that later, unless that has been discussed to death already. (Oddly enough, that cheap, grotesque event was one of the things that has caused me to really question a lot of things. Talk about the emporer having no clothes!!)

Over the last few years a dialogue began with a few friends with whom I could be honest. We discussed for a long time that our relationship with and feelings for Lazaris were separate from C:S. That seemed to make sense, but it doesn't any more. Lazaris is supposedly aware of the thoughts and feelings of those in his domain -- I have certainly felt like he was aware of mine! Why on earth would he accept cavalier attitutes, abuse, or cruelty, in members of the organization that presumably exists to support and communicate his work? (Incidentally, Lazaris discusses in great detail who they are and where they come from on an older tape which is no longer available from C:S, I believe. I think it is called Lazaris Talks About Lazaris, or something like that. From what I can remember, it is very similar to what was written in the books later, but I think it is more elaborate. It has been a long time since I heard it.)

I have not reached any conclusions about whether or not Lazaris is actually an entity channeled through Jach. I find it hard to believe that Jach and crew could prepare all of that material, synthesized though it could be from so many different sources, and also present it as it comes to us. The material, although possibly declining in recent times, is chock full of detail, and presented rapidly, without hesitation, in a very organized and cogent format. I have never met a human being I thought capable of pouring out that quantity, no less quality, of memorized or spontaneious information, non-stop, for hours at a time, and then to resume, sometimes for days on end.

As far as information about the participants, I do think there is ample opportunity to gather data, even in seeming social interactions. I happen to know that the people who speak to Lazaris during crystal ceremonies are, as has been stated here, telling him about the number of people left, and the time. But that still doesn't preclude information being given at other times. I have had some extremely personal things said to me by Lazaris, that I have always thought he could not have known by "normal" means. Even "in" jokes about things in my life. But really, that info. could have been given to Jach or Lazaris by others. He has said things in blendings that it seems nobody else would know. But I wonder. He has also told me things that have been true and helpful about my attitudes and behaviors. Some past life information also makes a lot of sense in patterns I am even now dealing with.

So, I don't know. But I do know that there is a lot rotten about C:S, and the hierarchy that existed. I am confused about allusions to Jach's handlers -- I always had the sense that Peny/Michaell/Jach were the absolute rulers. BTW, does anyone know what happened to staff members who have disappeared? Maybe that's already been covered too. If it has, I apologize.

Well, this is already long. I have a lot to say, but I will sign off for now.

Thanks,

quote:

---

Also, I was not the only one who posted to Steve about not liking attacks or enneagram classifications in reference to his post to FP. Finally, I find myself grouped as one of "you people", "Dirty Dozen" in FP's final pompous pulpit post.

---

Fingerprince began his postings on The Cosmicfool by EMPHATICALLY stating that he was an "Enneagram Type 8" -- and based a *great deal* of his initial idiotic behavior, positions -- and *exuses* for his bad behavior lol upon this.

I merely responded as an Enneagram 8 -- who has actually STUDIED the Enneagram. I felt duity bound to refute fingerprince's ignorant, manipulative, passive aggressive abuse of The Enneagram.

As far as attacks? lol ABSOLUTELY! I will continue to directly ATTACK *behavior* THAT IS CLEARLY POTENTIALLY HARMFUL to now -- VERY vulnerable Lazaris Suicide Cult escapees.

fingerprince and other behaviorally passive agressive individuals will continue to recharacterize *exposure* and condemnation of dangerous BEHAVIOR as: against THE PERSON. No harm in that folks -- *but* prepare to be exposed and corrected at break neck speed.

quote:

---

Steve,

If anyone who disagrees with you is a "INTRACTABLE *spiritual authority abusing* fascist scumbag," what more can be said? You and I need no further discussion.

---

In my post the words -- "INTRACTABLE *spiritual authority abusing* fascist scumbag" were RATHER lol obviously in reference to the recent deaths IMO in part brought about by this glorious Lazaris Cult busting web site.

Your attempt to characterice my sincerely murderous words as referencing such a nicy nice person as yourself or "anyone who disagrees" is rather distinctly -- one turd short of an "appropriate" yuppie poopoo platter.

You have learned fingerprince's infantile gyration of micro-selected quotation and "THING underneath -- bumping My Crib!" attribution so well Junior Flash Cards!

However -- there IS hope: you look like a passive aggressive new awuUuge coward raaaaacht out here in bare ass international cosmicfool internet public -- for doing it!

Get shame.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

I referred to my post as a reminder that FP has ignored posts/people who were not hostile, and that he conveniently simplified things for himself by characterizing everyone in the same sicko way, so he could achieve his "everyone is against me" stance. But you knew this.

Attacks -- I think we I agree that you have the right to make 'em, and I have the right to say when I don't like 'em.

Besides, all I really want to do is post entertaining icons. I think you'll enjoy this one,

I like this,

quote:

---

Jeremiah -- DANGEROUS irrationality can only be effectively faught -- with EMOTIONALLY INTENSE expressed rejection. Of the the cult-stubborn BEHAVIOR -- *NOT* the person.

---

Jade

That's the GREAT thing about opinions -- they don't ache for direct, violent attack -- until their public expression is DISTINCTLY DANGEROUS to others --

"Fire!" in a non-burning crowded theater, fingerprince's perpetually blithered, mindless / unthinking, passively aggressive visciously defended: "Lazaris IS spiritually TO_GE_THER!!! because ..it can 'mind-over-matter'!", etc.

88888888888888888888888888888888888

I WANT that grumpkin code DUDE!

Show me how to make a virtual turd?! PLEEEEEEEEEZE?

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

Though I've some questions in other of your posts, thanks for the points you've made (at the top of this page<4>).

Yes, another 'lurker' logging in. The reason I've chosen to is because all that I've read here has is just so bizarre. This site is like experience mutidimentional reality through a fracture prism.

I believe Lazaris is real, I wasn't at the millenium event, and haven't been to a workshop in years...I have been privy to a private reading or two, and my relationship with Lazaris is primarily accessed through meditation and blending, not tape recorded- and occasionally a private reading.

I found this site looking for answers regarding Peny's passing, so obviously some of the points made here have had impact on me and caused me to question; however, they were very hard for me to consider because they were "smeared" with such discusting, untrue, descriptions. -- I honestly don't think any of the "cosmic fool" gang KNOWS/KNEW Lazaris, Peny, or Jach.

I'll share my personal experience here:

With Lazaris' guidance I healed my hiv+ status to hiv- without meds.

At my first workshop (evening) - in a blending, Lazaris spoke to me IN DETAIL (YES TED, he said my First and Second name and then some!...and I didn't register with my 2nd name). (Suffocating Web of Anxiety) ...the rationals about "how Lazaris knows" posted on this site are insulting to me, when I attended this event, all they had was my name and maybe my CC#.

At my first weekend (Immortality 1) he got me with even more detail, after retiring to my room that Sat(after the healing), I was incapacitated in bed with dreams and visions. I'm sure that it was due to my reaction/receptivness, that I got a private reading not soon after.

I never got the 'mike' at an intesive... but what Lazaris told me in my 1st personal reading was not that much different from what he told dolfingirls sister.

It turned me inside out, I wanted to go into denial, but I trusted Lazaris and after about 6 months of processing daily, I healed from hiv+ to hiv-"inside out" both a metaphor and reality! It wasn't easy at all..but I've also done unimaginable healing with my Mom as well, we're both different people than who we were, and I think I feel more responsible and conscious regarding the changes than she does, though I may be wrong.

That was the first time I questioned whether or not Lazaris was a fraud...what he told me was so challenging, and I'm grateful to GOD that I decided he wasn't -(I can hear Katie wanting my medical records and Steve having a shit fit--
Kate, - you need to remember what nana told you!
Steve, - you're a desperate, lonely old queen - your vindictiveness is getting the best of you and blinding you right now. You should probably start by doing something about your weight!,and possibly? really coming out, your legacy as a Lazaris basher is really ugly and not what your about at all-You could have a completely different 'set' of relationships if you want)

I'd really like to know more about Peny's passing, but don't think I'll find anything of much value here at this point, at least not as much as she offered through her challenging nature. Perhaps it's best to respect her wishes... I've become a pretty good magician myself at this point, and when I think about it, I wouldn't want publicity when I pass either.

I am grateful for my life, and I know I saved myself, and I also know that Lazaris and the Crystal Cave stuffed helped...sometimes we all need to be pushed over the edge.

Those who don't want to be when it's their time RUN Back....I know because most of my family is doing that, and I'm sorry that I see it here as well; and I'm wondering if I've run back a bit, and that's why Peny's dead in this reality.

WhatEVER!...I'm not!!!

This "CosmicFool Gang" is truly the zero of the tarot - full of ideals and potential but also stepping blindly off the cliff like idiots.

They're trying to take as many down with them as they can.

I hope they don't succeed!

If this forum is not "at least" as valuable to you as Jade claims it is, I wish you well with your departure from it. I'm out the door right behind you. If you think it's as valuable as she does, than you should play here a bit longer.

Trying to communicate here is truly like putting nails through your wrists and ankles, whomever made that analogy obviously saw the picture, but missed the point.

with love and respect,

Timothy Michael Scott

quote:

---

With Lazaris' guidance I healed my hiv+ status to hiv- without meds.

---

+Sebacious carnival snake oil "proof" noises+ -- here folks. A likely false positive test.

See www.aliveandwell.org for further information about this indeed very tragic "miracle phenomenon". IMO thank God you *did not* go for the toxic meds., Timothy S. -- thank God. John Robbins OF SANTA CRUZ (Katie --) , author of Diet For A New America is on Alive And Well's not-for-profit board of directors.

quote:

---

At my first workshop (evening) - in a blending, Lazaris spoke to me IN DETAIL (YES TED, he said my First and Second name and then some!...and I didn't register with my 2nd name). (Suffocating Web of Anxiety) ...the rationals about "how Lazaris knows" posted on this site are insulting to me, when I attended this event, all they had was my name and maybe my CC#.

---

Here the subject, Tim M. Mouse Paw shows conclusive evidence of a desperately expressed need to both 'flim flam' The Cosmicfool -- and himself.

Jade, Jeremiah, Katie, Ted -- *HERE* is more of the damning evidence we all have suspected -- that Con:Sin clues Lazzyass in on the "new meat" in the workshop room. I had this VERY SAME blending "first timer" bullshit happen to me -- as you all may well recall.

How COULD Lazzyass POSSIBLY have known Timothy M.'s LAST NAME -- when Con:Sin *only* had his C-R-E-D-I-T C-A-R-D?!

GOD! It's awsome -- Timothy M. is such the brilliant retorical giant -- he doesn't even need to courageously stick around and mope as his Sin:Con-ed swiss cheese logic is shot to salad shreads.

Can I have some *mouldy* rye crutons with that Jeremiah?!

quote:

---

At my first weekend (Immortality 1) he got me with even more detail, after retiring to my room that Sat(after the healing), I was incapacitated in bed with dreams and visions. I'm sure that it was due to my reaction/receptivness, that I got a private reading not soon after.

---

Tim, after TOO DAMN MANY Lazzyass Personal and Life "Readings", I -- along with so many here -- can tell you that your receptivity, reactivity (and gullability -- like mine..) was PRECISELY the reason you got those ongoing, expensive readings.

Lazzyass PARTICULARLY liked ..it's and Peny's ability to extend their personal ability to "star f*ck" -- as Ted so brilliantly puts it -- through my media / entertainment industry connections. Was he hoping to use your casual testimony to friends / new aquaintances for a chance to claim an "HIV cure" through the free advertising 'grapevine'?!

In my *very* personal experience and opinion -- Lazzyass and Con:Sin's capacity for multi-facited "fractured" USERY -- had *and has* ABSOLUTELY NO bounds what so ever. Jesus Christ. Just ask Shirley Maclaine.

quote:

---

I never got the 'mike' at an intesive... but what Lazaris told me in my 1st personal reading was not that much different from what he told dolfingirls sister.

It turned me inside out, I wanted to go into denial, but I trusted Lazaris and after about 6 months of processing daily, I healed from hiv+ to hiv-"inside out" both a metaphor and reality! It wasn't easy at all..but I've also done unimaginable healing with my Mom as well, we're both different people than who we were, and I think I feel more responsible and conscious regarding the changes than she does, though I may be wrong.

---

Lazzyass does INDEED have capsulized some of the best information for personal transformation -- available on Earth. IMO -- like the used car shark selling you that extra shiny Porsche 930 Turbo -- with the hidden broken chasis welds -- you only find out later -- when it MOST threatens your personal safety and security.

quote:

---

I can hear Katie wanting my medical records and Steve having a shit fit--
Kate, - you need to remember what nana told you!
Steve, - you're a desperate, lonely old queen - your vindictiveness is getting the best of you and blinding you right now. You should probably start by doing something about your weight!,and possibly? really coming out, your legacy as a Lazaris basher is really ugly and not what your about at all-You could have a completely different 'set' of relationships if you want)[QUOTE]

Yeah what? Like a personal sexual relationship with Double Diamond Amway Associate Charles "Multi Cult" Manson? Hmm.. he is just up the freeway in Fairfield, CA.

Ah. But I digress my fraud. Lazaris very, very CORRECTLY identified me and my -- now lethal -- MANY associates as "terrorists" in 1996. I, for one am quite happy with that moniker from IMO such a behaviorally and financially corrupt, spiritual authority abusing behavioral chunk on the ass of Reality.

Our job as exposing, honest, responsible SPONTANIOUS benificent sabateurs is simply to "Wipe It Clean". +happy happy dancing feet noise+ Though I do prefer "benificent saboteur" -- Peny even liked that term -- when Werner Erhard was a mutual enemy -- death marked for responsible and VERY honest "bannana cream pie" CBS 60 Minutes public damnation.

I would show you my lean muscular body -- but THEN you'd get an erection! And THAT could be messy. My main squeeze wouldn't like it much either.

[QUOTE]with love and respect,

---

WOW! That felt JUST like the Con:Sin forum -- so respectfully disrespectfully REAL! Could it actually be Peny back from the DEAD in gay drag?

Steve
sb6@altavsta.com

quote:

---

With Lazaris' guidance I healed my hiv+ status to hiv- without meds.

---

+Sebacious carnival snake oil "proof" noises+ -- here folks. A likely false positive test.

See www.aliveandwell.org for further information about this indeed very tragic "miracle phenomenon". IMO thank God you *did not* go for the toxic meds., Timothy M. -- thank God. John Robbins OF SANTA CRUZ (Katie --) , author of Diet For A New America is on Alive And Well's not-for-profit board of directors.

quote:

---

At my first workshop (evening) - in a blending, Lazaris spoke to me IN DETAIL (YES TED, he said my First and Second name and then some!...and I didn't register with my 2nd name). (Suffocating Web of Anxiety) ...the rationals about "how Lazaris knows" posted on this site are insulting to me, when I attended this event, all they had was my name and maybe my CC#.

---

Here the subject, Tim M. Mouse Paw shows conclusive evidence of a desperately expressed need to both 'flim flam' The Cosmicfool -- and himself.

Jade, Jeremiah, Katie, Ted -- *HERE* is more of the damning evidence we all have suspected -- that Con:Sin clues Lazzyass in on the "new meat" in the workshop room. I had this VERY SAME blending "first timer" bullshit happen to me -- as you all may well recall.

How COULD Lazzyass POSSIBLY have known Timothy M.'s LAST NAME -- when Con:Sin *only* had his C-R-E-D-I-T C-A-R-D?!

GOD! It's awsome -- Timothy M. is such the brilliant retorical giant -- he doesn't even need to courageously stick around and mope as his Sin:Con-ed swiss cheese logic is shot to salad shreads.

Can I have some *mouldy* rye crutons with that Jeremiah?!

quote:

---

At my first weekend (Immortality 1) he got me with even more detail, after retiring to my room that Sat(after the healing), I was incapacitated in bed with dreams and visions. I'm sure that it was due to my reaction/receptivness, that I got a private reading not soon after.

---

Tim, after TOO DAMN MANY Lazzyass Personal and Life "Readings", I -- along with so many here -- can tell you that your receptivity, reactivity (and gullability -- like mine..) was PRECISELY the reason you got those ongoing, expensive readings.

Lazzyass PARTICULARLY liked ..it's and Peny's ability to extend their personal ability to "star f*ck" -- as Ted so brilliantly puts it -- through my media / entertainment industry connections. Was he hoping to use your casual testimony to friends / new aquaintances for a chance to claim an "HIV cure" through the free advertising 'grapevine'?!

In my *very* personal experience and opinion -- Lazzyass and Con:Sin's capacity for multi-facited "fractured" USERY -- had *and has* ABSOLUTELY NO bounds what so ever. Jesus Christ. Just ask Shirley Maclaine.

quote:

---

I never got the 'mike' at an intesive... but what Lazaris told me in my 1st personal reading was not that much different from what he told dolfingirls sister.

It turned me inside out, I wanted to go into denial, but I trusted Lazaris and after about 6 months of processing daily, I healed from hiv+ to hiv-"inside out" both a metaphor and reality! It wasn't easy at all..but I've also done unimaginable healing with my Mom as well, we're both different people than who we were, and I think I feel more responsible and conscious regarding the changes than she does, though I may be wrong.

---

Lazzyass does INDEED have capsulized some of the best information for personal transformation -- available on Earth. IMO -- like the used car shark selling you that extra shiny Porsche 930 Turbo -- with the hidden broken chasis welds -- you only find out later -- when it MOST threatens your personal safety and security.

quote:

---

I can hear Katie wanting my medical records and Steve having a shit fit--
Kate, - you need to remember what nana told you!
Steve, - you're a desperate, lonely old queen - your vindictiveness is getting the best of you and blinding you right now. You should probably start by doing something about your weight!,and possibly? really coming out, your legacy as a Lazaris basher is really ugly and not what your about at all-You could have a completely different 'set' of relationships if you want)

---

Yeah what? Like a personal sexual relationship with Double Diamond Amway Associate Charles "Multi Cult" Manson? Hmm.. he is just up the freeway in Fairfield, CA.

Ah. But I digress my fraud. Lazaris very, very CORRECTLY identified me and my -- now lethal -- MANY associates as "terrorists" in 1996. I, for one am quite happy with that moniker from IMO such a behaviorally and financially corrupt, spiritual authority abusing behavioral chunk on the ass of Reality.

Our job as SPONTANIOUS, honest benificent EXPOSING saboteurs is simply to "Wipe It Clean". +happy happy dancing feet noise+ Though I do prefer "benificent saboteur" -- Peny even liked that term -- when Werner Erhard was a mutual enemy -- death marked for responsible, honest and VERY VERY public "bannana cream pie" 60 Minutes public exposure.

I would show you my lean muscular body -- but THEN you'd get an erection! And THAT could be messy. My main squeeze wouldn't like it much either.

quote:

---

with love and respect,

---

WOW! That felt JUST like the Con:Sin forum -- so respectfully disrespectfully REAL! Could it ACTUALLY be my ULTIMATE -- ULTIMATE interstate rest stop *secret* homosexual fantasy Spikehole Scaly -- in gay drag?

You know what I think? I think he wants me you guys.

Steve
sb6@altavsta.com

quote:

---

With Lazaris' guidance I healed my hiv+ status to hiv- without meds.

---

Welcome Tim and conratulations on turning your hiv status around.

quote:

---

At my first workshop (evening) - in a blending, Lazaris spoke to me IN DETAIL (YES TED, he said my First and Second name and then some!...and I didn't register with my 2nd name). (Suffocating Web of Anxiety) ...the rationals about "how Lazaris knows" posted on this site are insulting to me, when I attended this event, all they had was my name and maybe my CC#.

---

I never evaluated the reality of Lazaris on the blending "roll call". There were other more compelling thing that convinced me of Lazaris credibility.

Knowing the names of attendees or whatever, never proved much to me because I figured if Jach was a fraud he might be psychic nonetheless or at the very least reading a list of new people created from the credit card reciepts.

Quite honestly, I never thought much about Jach being a fraud at all because I had decided Lazaris was real.

The thing that first impressed me about Lazaris and continued to convince me of his reality was the depth, intelligence and humor of the material itself.

How it never seemed to gloss over the questions and creases in metaphysics. I still think this holds true of the earlier material and of some of the later material. Much less so in recent years however.

It was against that backdrop of that alleged credibility that I at first weighed with disgust Concept Synergy's behavior against and then more directly Jach and Peny and now ultimately Lazaris.

Lazaris certainly wouldn't be upset by what is written on this board. Lazaris doesn't get upset, for one.

quote:

---

at was the first time I questioned whether or not Lazaris was a fraud...what he told me was so challenging, and I'm grateful to GOD that I decided he wasn't -(I can hear Katie wanting my medical records and Steve having a shit fit--
Kate, - you need to remember what nana told you!
Steve, - you're a desperate, lonely old queen - your vindictiveness is getting the best of you and blinding you right now. You should probably start by doing something about your weight!,and possibly? really coming out, your legacy as a Lazaris basher is really ugly and not what your about at all-You could have a completely different 'set' of relationships if you want)

---

That seems pretty harsh Tim, and untrue. I don't see Steve and Katie the way you obviously do. I think what you are writing here is unfair about them.

quote:

---

I'd really like to know more about Peny's passing, but don't think I'll find anything of much value here at this point, at least not as much as she offered through her challenging nature. Perhaps it's best to respect her wishes... I've become a pretty good magician myself at this point, and when I think about it, I wouldn't want publicity when I pass either.

---

Well Tim, perhaps even better that conforming to Peny's hypothetical wishes it might be better to respect ourselves and bring the whole set of questions down to earth where they belong.

quote:

---

Those who don't want to be when it's their time RUN Back....I know because most of my family is doing that, and I'm sorry that I see it here as well; and I'm wondering if I've run back a bit, and that's why Peny's dead in this reality.

---

Maybe Peny died in this reality because you are moving forward, ever think of that?

Maybe not.

Several interpretations are possible and not one fits everyone. There is one for every agenda.

By "Running back" I am assuming you mean abandoning spirituality and metaphysics.

I can only say that a from my experience it was the clear and sober application of basic metaphysical and spiritual truths that confirmed for me certain questions had to be raised or I ran the risk of loosing my sense of personal responsibility and my own grasp of my power.

You challenge whether or not people here knew Jach and Peny.

I did.

I decided that it was important for me to save myself as a metaphysician and accept the truth about what I had created in them rather than justify and defend what was beyond justification in their behavior.

I decided I was more important than protecting an organization that clearly had cleverly mixed deep truths with a cut throat self serving business plan to make a buck.

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Just saw this nasty comment as I was replying to you and have to wonder where you get the balls to call Steve a bitter queen.

How can you object to the way Peny et al are discussed in here and then turn around and say hurtful things to Jade, Katie and Steve??

I refer you to your own words:

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were very hard for me to consider because they were "smeared" with such discusting, untrue, descriptions

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Yet you expect people to overlook your disgusting untrue descriptions?

Jade is a beautiful woman and doesn't deserve that disrespect.

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Trying to communicate here is truly like putting nails through your wrists and ankles, whomever made that analogy obviously saw the picture, but missed the point.

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I made the analogy and the last part of your post confirms I hit the nails right on the wrists and ankles.

The point, for you and perhaps for others who missed it is that when you are motivated to defend the unappreciated, misunderstood, wrongly judged, ...[ etc.] Concept Synergy by punishing the people who are questioning you, you become a martyr to a thankless cause.

Best not to bite the finger but to look where it is poining.

And if you really learned what Lazaris said about martyr, in my opinion, you would see the truth of that in a second.

Cheers,

Jeremiah