quote:

---

Originally posted by Katie:
Hi Fingerprince,

You really seem to be missing the point that most of us are here to discuss and share our thoughts. The only zealousness to change minds or convert people's thinking on this board has come from Lazaris supporters.

---

quote:

---

For you and others who are confused about how to use the code for quotes, icons, etc.
the very simple instructions are provided next to the window that opens when you are writing a post. The link says "UBB Code is ON". If you click there, all of your questions will be answered. There is no technique that requires any technical skill.

Peace,

Katie

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fingerprince:
____________________________________________

MOST everyone in here (the ones that write, at least) disagrees with me

---

I'm not sure that is true. I have written several times that I love Lazaris, it has changed my life but the CS cult like behavior is disturbing. Crystal Clear has written the same thing. Yes, this was a site started by Katie and Ted and yes they think Lazaris is a fraud. But there are others in various stages of belief or non belief.

I do not believe nor would I presume to change people's minds, especially after what some of them experienced with Lazaris and CS. As you so aptly pointed out, each of our experiences is uniquely personal and what seems like a miracle to you may sound ho hum to someone else. If the miracle seemed like a miracle to you, then what else matters?

But I think your personal situation sort of got things confused plus you mentioning several times that you had information that you couldn't share with people. That seemed somewhat manipulative.

Sometimes this is a hard site to read for people who do still value Lazaris yet there is some good in this as we all need to be constantly discerning and looking for places that we give our power away.

So I think you need to ask what your intent is. If it is to change people's minds, I don't think it will happen.

Best,
Bluebird

quote:

---

Originally posted by Katie:
Hi Bluebird,

Now, may I ask you a question?

Are you suspicious that there is someone besides me and Ted behind this website, or that there are ulterior motives at work here?

My curiousity, hope you don't mind me asking.

Katie

---

No, I don't think there are ulterior motives at work. What makes me a little nervous is if what you say is true about Peny listening to private consultations, then where is the line drawn? ARe there people who would try to crash in the site? There are people lurking here who do go to seminars and no doubt are afraid of losing that.

One of the reasons why I decided to stop posting a few days ago, was the fact that an otherwise interesting discussion, again turned into an "everybody (almost everybody) against Fingerprince" situation.

I don't find it constructive to read post after post that are blaming and rude towards Fingerprince. I don't know the guy, but reading his posts I must say, they are not the least offensive to me.

I do think that his need for privacy should be respected. Why does that mean so much to you guys, that you become that aggessive towards him? So what if he's holding something back?

Katie, you also wrote to me that one of my posts was provocative. Why? It wasn't at all in my eyes, it was just me, writing honestly how I felt.
Your aggression and you fear of being accussed of something or other, remind me too much of the style in the Forum.
I am sorry to say this, I'm sure that you also can be a nice and loving person too.
I understand that after 12 years, it's difficult to switch to another way.

I have also already said what I wanted to say here, and the answers I found to my confusion about Lazaris and Con:Sin were all interesting.

I wish you all good luck with your process and your growth.

This website is great. Ted and katie you did a good job putting it up. I just think that you, Katie, should be a bit more careful about what you write to other people, it could hurt someone.

Helena

quote:

---

One of the reasons why I decided to stop posting a few days ago, was the fact that an otherwise interesting discussion, again turned into an "everybody (almost everybody) against Fingerprince" situation.

I do think that his need for privacy should be respected. Why does that mean so much to you guys, that you become that aggessive towards him? So what if he's holding something back?

---

It's not that we are against fingerprince *as a being* Helena. *That* -- truly would be reminicent of Con:Sin's social bloodbath forum. The fact is -- as Jeremiah has so clearly and so calmly pointed out -- were no one to speak out against fingerprince's continual *validation* of Lazaris as a spiritual teacher by virtue of Lazaris' IMO -- VERY REAL mind-over-matter abilities -- there would be a GREAT AND VERY DANGEROUS LOSS for many ex Lazaris cult members reading along here.

It must be said again and again --and again(!) Helena -- it is EXTREMELY dangerous to validate a spiritual teacher and their teaching by TRUE mind-over-matter abilities.

Think: Sai Babba ripping apart the bloodied anus of a small boy with his withered, 75 year old (at least figuratively) small penis -- if you would honestly like this *crucial*, cult spiritual authority, mind-over-matter manipulation to sink into your protective memory -- and stick.

Farewell -- if'un yer gonna be a cotton eared dumb dumb about fingerprince's *continually posted* Lazaris mind-over-matter, power rip-off mistaken assumption -- sorry to say: we are all CLEARLY better off without your continued stuburn posting.

It is so -- so very good to see that you are able to leave The Cosmicfool forum by: free speach and *free choice* -- vs. Con:Sin forum edited out, violent *spiritual being slamming* social rejection.

Unlike the fascist, soul slamming horrors that shaped the Con:Sin forum -- the clear and strong rejection of BEHAVIOR clearly dangerous to others is *the most important* foundation of a civilized community.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

Sorry you are leaving, but that is your choice. A choice, as Steve points out, is always a good thing to have.

I have no intention of being manipulated by any individual or group sense of what is correct and proper for me to write or say. And why me? Why do you address my posts specifically when I am hardly the only person posting here who has a problem with fingerprince's behavior?

I am no one's mother, guide, mentor, teacher,
boss, or surrogate Peny.

My approval is no more valuable than anyone else's here, nor is my disapproval. I have no intention of being manipulated in that way.

Everyone needs to take care of the impact of what we write, and that includes you and fingerprince Helena.

It's fine with me if you have no problem with posts that are ridiculous and manipulative in the extreme, but I do have a problem with them, and not one problem stating them. I am, just like anyone who cares to bother, very capable of distinguishing a healthy respectful interaction from a moldy pathetic sick and manipulative one.

It's also fine with me for people to come here and defend Lazaris and the materials, but excuse me for noticing that Lazaris' biggest defender here doesn't have even a cursory knowledge of the material.

I studied that shit for twelve years, and I'm familiar enough with the Jungian, transactional interactions which Jach lifted for his Lazaris show.

By anyone's standards, Lazaris or otherwise, fingerprince has abused the freedom to speak here more than any other poster.

Freedom is not license. It's a difficult concept for many, I know that. It's the challenge presented here, to have the benefit of personal freedom, but with respect for the freedom of others.

If you buy into fingerprince's two bit manipulative logic, then so be it Helena.
I don't, and ironically, neither would Lazaris, if there were such an entity. Not unless fingerprince happened to go by the name of Peny and have really bad taste in makeup. In Bizzaris Land, there is only one type of freedom and that is the freedom to
subvert, lie, manipulate, and deceive.

Anyone posting here is free to practice any and all of the above socially abhorrent behaviors, but so is anyone else free to object.

I know, it's difficult. Don't blame that on me please, I don't care to be the target of anyone's personifications or projections.

May I hold the door for you?

Thank you for your input.

The following input from Steve's response to you: "Farewell-- if'un yer gonna be a cotton eared dumb dumb about finerprince's *continually posted* Lazaris mind-over-matter, power rip-off mistaken assumption -- sorry to say: we are all CLEARLY better off without your continued stuburn posting."

is exactly what I heard you speaking about in your post.
If someone does not agree with the general concensus in Cosmic Fool, they are made fun of or degraded in some manner.

Steve, I respect you and have enjoyed speaking with you on the phone and reading your posts but why must you call someone a "a cotton eared dumb dumb".
Is this what you call freedom of speech - sure you can say what you want, but in my perspective - that hurt!

And as Fingerprince pointed out before, this site loses a lot of credibilty because of it.

So what is the difference between CosmicFool and the Forum? The Forum attacks the posters and boots them off. CosmicFool just makes fun of them.

There is so much to discuss as with Sai Baba and Lazaris - the truth is coming out and many people are hurting - they were all attracted to the "love" and most sincere about their spiritual growth and are in deep pain over being caught in some deep lies -

This is a time for coming into our own power and letting the truth come out.

but it is not a time for attacking.
Let's give people more space to express for and against without the fear of attack because they did not agree with one's ideas.

This can give more healing space and help each person grow into their own clarity.

Some of you may think I am preaching but calling someone a "cotton eared dumb dumb" and "we are all CLAERLY better off without your continued stuburn posting" , in my viewpoint is uncalled for.

Sorry Helena -

Donna

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donna:

This is a time for coming into our own power and letting the truth come out.

but it is not a time for attacking.
Let's give people more space to express for and against without the fear of attack because they did not agree with one's ideas.

This can give more healing space and help each person grow into their own clarity.

Some of you may think I am preaching but calling someone a "cotton eared dumb dumb" and "we are all CLAERLY better off without your continued stuburn posting" , in my viewpoint is uncalled for.

There is so much good here

---

I think you wrote a terrific post. It is hard to tell over print what someone's countenance is. Things that are said whimsically or humorously come across as cruel in print without someone's facial expressions. Seems I made this argument about seven years ago in Compuserve. Helena, be well.

Best,
Bluebird

quote:

---

If someone does not agree with the general concensus in Cosmic Fool, they are made fun of or degraded in some manner.

---

But there isn't a "general consensus" here on almost any topic

There isn't a uniform view of Lazaris or anything else here.

Some people think that Lazaris is a fraud others don't, for instance.

I for instance, have said over and over that I don't have a final opinion on who or what Lazaris is.

Nobody has ever attacked me for that.

I write it all the time and nobody ever gets in my face for it.

Clearly I have strong opinions about Concept Synergy and the conduct that Lazaris has condoned and participated in, but I haven't signed up for anyone elses theory and nobody has attacked me for that.

quote:

---

And as Fingerprince pointed out before, this site loses a lot of credibilty because of it.

---

I don't know about that, certain people may have less credibility in the eyes of some than others but this is a site of individuals.

Ya have to decide what is credible for yourself and what isn't. The whole thing isn't going to be credible for everyone.

quote:

---

So what is the difference between CosmicFool and the Forum?

---

"Read only" threads initiated by non-leader leaders for non-follower-followers to absorb and swallow without question.

quote:

---

The Forum attacks the posters and boots them off. CosmicFool just makes fun of them.

---

Really? I don't see it that way.

Fingerprince made fun of several people and made many derisive comments in underhanded passive aggressive ways. All those people still post and don't seem to have crumbled under his attacks.

Passive agressive snipes and whines. Nastiest form of communication in my book.

quote:

---

There is so much to discuss as with Sai Baba and Lazaris - the truth is coming out and many people are hurting - they were all attracted to the "love" and most sincere about their spiritual growth and are in deep pain over being caught in some deep lies -

---

One of the biggest, deepest lies underlying all others is that we are weak and undeserving of our personal authority and must constantly look to a Lazaris or Sai Baba or some other authority to handle the form and content for us.

An authority to serve as a buffer between us and the universe. To make interactions between ourselves and the world "safe". T

That is a promise that promises something it cannot deliver. We make our own safety in the universe. It cannot be given or provided by another.

Just like the negative ego that Lazaris talks so fervently about.

quote:

---

but it is not a time for attacking.
Let's give people more space to express for and against without the fear of attack because they did not agree with one's ideas.

---

Nobody can eliminate a persons fear of being attacked. Fingerprince attacked people repeatedly in his posts. We are all adults we can deal with being attacked.

We are not so weak that a passive aggressive jibe is going to do us in.

We can write back. No big deal.

This whole idea that safety can be provided by someone else is corrupt in my view.

The forum is famous for boasting a "safe" atmosphere and look at it? It is a dead place.

quote:

---

Some of you may think I am preaching but calling someone a "cotton eared dumb dumb" and "we are all CLAERLY better off without your continued stuburn posting" , in my viewpoint is uncalled for.

---

Well, if thats how you feel I am really glad you spoke up. Whos gives a rats butt if you are preaching or not. That is your right.

I personally prefer Steve's style of communication which leaves little mystery as to where he stands on an issue to Fingerprince's passive aggressive hostility.

But thats me.. I still want to hear what you have to say.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

quote:

---

If someone does not agree with the general concensus in Cosmic Fool, they are made fun of or degraded in some manner.

Steve, I respect you and have enjoyed speaking with you on the phone and reading your posts but why must you call someone a "a cotton eared dumb dumb".
Is this what you call freedom of speech - sure you can say what you want, but in my perspective - that hurt!

---

In the words of Lazaris: "Sometimes you have to hurt people."

Thankfully, we live in a world where cult-blind, *DANGEROUS to others* B-E-H-A-V-I-O-R is continually subject to being exposed -- and *being made fun of*.

If Helen chooses to confuse her SELF with her *dangerous to others* BEHAVIOR -- and play hurt -- let her.

Thankfully Donna -- this is NOT a 'wet noodle', airy fairy, new age THERAPY site -- but -- a wake UP and get some healthy, balanced social reality site.

If a person is not capable of taking their own *dangerous behavior* lite enough to have IT made fun of -- you fill in the blank.

Lazyass turned so many followers into wilting flowers -- willing and *SO* ready to scream bloody murder at the first *tiny* crib bump "upset".

It's time to seperate socially castrated / castrating new age cult BEHAVIOR -- from *being* and get a grip on social reality.

"Hurt"? I hope so.

"Hurt" enough to consider not spewing that idiotic "mind-over-mattter" = Jesus cult venom.

Expose her less hard? No -- I don't think so.

It's time for the Pampers to come off -- and STAY off.

Later Donna from Denver --

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

I was speaking about Helena and being called a "cotton eared dumb dumb".

Helena was speaking her viewpoints and was told that "we are CLEARLY better off without her stubborn posting and someone else said they will gladly hold open the door -
So where is the room for disagreement?

Maybe your idea of disagreement and mine is different. I feel that we can disagree Jeremiah but I don't need to call you names because of it.

You stated "This whole idea that safety can be provided by someone else is corrupt in my viewpoint" I never said that - all I am asking is why the name calling? Is that freedom of speech? I guess I don't call that safety Jeremiah, I call it respect.

You and I are disagreeing right now on a few points, but are we calling each other names?
Where does that get us?

For if we were calling each other names - I would have to discern if I would choose to continue - is that a place to put my energies? I guess for me it crosses a fine line of respect. Jeremiah, I could disagree with you very strongly and vehemently but still treat you with respect and treat myself with respect.

I was speaking about Helena, not about Fingerprince at all except for one statement. Helena was speaking about Fingerprince.

quote:

---

Jeremiah,
For clarity's sake - I wasn't speaking about Fingerprince.

---

Yes, you were speaking of Helena, that was plenty clear.

I assumed you were talking about fingerprince and reading your post again I can see that you were referring to Helena. My mistake.

Sorry for the confusion.

I see your point about disagreeing with respect and yes I hope we can all do that.

Nobody can make us do it however, that is pretty much my point. It has to be a choice out of the way we want to be rather than the way someone has told us to be.

So I do see your point more clearly now.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

quote:

---

Originally posted by TedV:
Hi Fingerprince,

You wrote: I'm not sorry they never spoke my name. They never were a surrogate lover to me anyway. If the reason was that he saw my future (forget about the fact that they claim we have many possible futures) then we already know that you'll never convince of their authernticity, 'cuz Lazaris woulda seen that too.

Cheers, Ted

---

TedV,

...not to worry...not a problem.

Though I suspect you're nice enough in person (you have a nice face, at any rate) you really don't get it, at all. I'm not trying to change any of you. I can see where you and most of the others "are" and it's pretty clear what you're views are...

What I've been after from the beginning are those who are not visible, those who have fears or wounds and are looking for some relief. As I pointed out earlier, they get plenty of anger and disgust and righteousness from those who speak the loudest in here. My voice, as obnoxious as it is to you and a few others, is hopefully one of an alternative to your alternative. In spite of what any of you say, I wouldn't mind being quizzed on what Lazaris has said. I don't have a perfect memory but I'm willing to bet I'm as good an authority as anyone else in here, and better than most.

We aren't being tested on what Lazaris has said, of course. The charter for this website is clearly not for that. The stated purpose is to refute what was formerly publically held as valid or officical information (as depicted by those in charge of Lazaris, etc.) You can refute and dismiss and do everything as you have and that would be okay, I suppose. But if, you (the website founders) are sincere in what you say about free speech and diverse opinions, then you must be willing to hear those who genuinely disagree or find fault with either your premises and/or your conclusions. I'm not being passively agressive...I'm simply being assertive and incorrigible and unwilling to capitulate to views with which I don't agree.

I'm not hurt by anything any one of you has said. I've been saddened and disappointed and angered but, not hurt. I don't know any of you though I suspect I've seen many at workshops. At some point in here, long before Katie, I will be gone. No matter what I say, you (collectively) will consider it manipulative since it is not what you want to hear. It's no more manipulative, however, than you (collectively) screaming and yelling and calling other human beings foul names, either for what they supposedly did or for disagreeing with you. This may appeal to a few, but you will soon find yourself with a very small audience, I'm sure, since your behaviors are every bit as obvious as mine supposedly is to you.

So again, don't feel so ego-centric...it's not really you I care about.

Thanks,

quote:

---

Helena was speaking her viewpoints and was told that "we are CLEARLY better off without her stubborn posting and someone else said they will gladly hold open the door -
So where is the room for disagreement

---

As you conveniently left out Donna, I put a SAD FACE after my reference to our each being CLEARLY better off without her stubburn (cult mind-over-matter manipulation-supporting) posting. CLEARLY meaning: I would prefer she clean up her act and stay.

Jeremiah -- Donna is throwing 'wet noodle spine' making, new age mind controled *cult guilt* around in here like a wild three year old Quan Yin. Just my violent, Bull Lesbian Amazon impossible-to-control publicly expressed opinion.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by Helena:
[B]
I don't find it constructive to read post after post that are blaming and rude towards Fingerprince. I don't know the guy, but reading his posts I must say, they are not the least offensive to me.

---

Hi, Helena, if you're still reading.

I really appreciate your hand to me. You brought tears to my eyes last week, with an unexpected post from you.

...too bad you're already married. ;-)

____________________________________________

quote:

---

Katie, you also wrote to me that one of my posts was provocative. Why? It wasn't at all in my eyes, it was just me, writing honestly how I felt.
Your aggression and you fear of being accussed of something or other, remind me too much of the style in the Forum.

---

Yes, while it may seem this way to you and me and a few others, it's obviously difficult to self-evaluate, for any of us, including her. It's also interesting that Katie considers herself an expert on manipulation and clearly implied that she was doing that in her own workshops or whatever they were. By extension, it's no stretch to suspect she uses the same tactics in here against dissent, in an ironically similar fashion to the forum. Must be karmic, or something.

For what it's worth, I thought your post was tender and honestly felt, and not just because of your support of me.

_____________________________________________

quote:

---

This website is great. Ted and katie you did a good job putting it up. I just think that you, Katie, should be a bit more careful about what you write to other people, it could hurt someone.

---

I agree with you, on all counts. Again, the irony is amazing, in the last point.

I have the advantage of seeing how several people replied to you after this last? post of yours, Helena, and it's really just more pain. Pain because while the complaints against Lazaris and C:S have been fast and furious: how manipulative, how un-loving, etc., what we are offered is how much more loving these people (in here) are and yet, they are spiteful and hateful and vicious to anyone not sharing their views. This is an example of love? You and I see it, Helena, and so do others, whose names I will omit since they are still here and able to speak for themselves should they so choose.

I agree that this website is valuable. I'm not so sure that it's valuable in the way its originators envisioned, however. I suspect lots of people will see this, after C:S, and decide to chuck it all. Might as well break out the six-packs and watch tv. To hell with loving spirituality disguised as freedom of speech.

The responses to your final posts are nothing short of disgusting and unevolved, by even a grade-schooler's standards, I'm sure. I'm sorry to see you go. I will stick around a few more rounds, then I, too, will leave.

I really hope you find meaningful peace and love whereever you go.

You wrote:

quote:

---

As you conveniently left out Donna, I put a SAD FACE after my reference...

---

I wouldn't assume that Donna purposely left out the sad face - icons don't show up in portions that have been cut-and-pasted.

On another note - "Lazyass" is the best nomenclature I've seen for the Grand Orb to date - LOL.

You wrote:

quote:

---

It's also interesting that Katie considers herself an expert on manipulation and clearly implied that she was doing that in her own workshops or whatever they were. By extension, it's no
stretch to suspect she uses the same tactics in here against dissent, in an ironically similar fashion to the forum.

---

For someone who does so much kvetching about not being treated fairly, you certainly are capable of unfairness yourself. Katie mentioned that she was concerned about manipulation when she worked with tranformational journeys. She consciously and conscientiously chose not to continue because she didn't want to manipulate.

If there is any "extension" to be be made, it is that she has a principle which precludes manipulation and she lived by it. If you think she's being manipulative now, then by all means address her current behaviour. Using a situation from years ago that she chose to end because of a danger of being manipulative is extraordinarily manipulative and dishonest.
This behaviour on your part would be just as destructive if you believed that Lazaris was a fraud. Your assertion that you are "attacked" because of your belief is a straw man. Others have indicated that they have not been attacked for their belief in Lazaris. Why does everybody pick on poor Fingerprince? The answer lies in the question, "What's the difference between your behaviour and the behaviour of the other Lazaris believers?"

quote:

---

You wrote: I wouldn't assume that Donna purposely left out the sad face - icons don't show up in portions that have been cut-and-pasted.

---

I know. I was more referencing the meaning Donna ..conveniently ignored -- that I very CLEARLY expressed with the sad face.

I truly do wish it were otherwise with Helena -- but if she's gonna continue on with her IMO cult-dangerous very stubborn postings -- better we help her 'locate the door' than cringe at her leaving.

quote:

---

On another note - "Lazyass" is the best nomenclature I've seen for the Grand Orb to date - LOL.

---

God that fits(!) doesn't it?

I do enjoy having many people post here, and I enjoy the diversity of opinion. But if I ever cringe at the thought of anyone leaving, then I will have given away my freedom of speech. Freedom of speech can and should co-exist with good manners and responsibility for the impact that one's speech has on others, but it cannot co-exist with appeasement.

Cheers, Ted

Yes, that's the point isn't it? "If you don't do what I want you to do, I'm taking my toys and going home".

It's manipulation learned on the playground.

When everyone leaves, I guess it will be over. I hope for the day that this site will be of no interest to anyone, myself included.

This isn't a commercial site, a social club, or a popularity contest.

I think the more pressure I get to act all woo woo and airy fairy for the audience the more aggravated and grumpy I become.

Excuse me for hating emotional blackmail.

[QUOTE]But if I ever cringe at the thought of anyone leaving, then I will have given away my freedom of speech. Freedom of speech can and should co-exist with good manners and responsibility for the impact that one's speech has on others, but it cannot co-exist with appeasement.[QUOTE]

Absolutely.

Appeasement is where the soul begins to die in a cult.

Manners are another question. I like the words: appropriate action.

If one's actions merely anger and offend by lampooning stubborn, dangerous cult BEHAVIOR -- and ipso facto: do no real -- *SOUL* damage -- then one has graduated "Puma Cum Claws Bloody" from The Jane Robbert's Causal Plane School of "Fuck You And Your Dangerous Cult BEHAVIOR!"

You have GOT to break a few cotton heads -- to make a proper cult omelet.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

Well, I'm not going to get all worked up about someone being called a "cotton eared dumb dumb."

Gee whiz!

Especially not when a mountain of passive aggressive, manipulative, dishonest, slime goes seemingly unnoticed by those who are so offended by Steve's cartoonlike imagery.

The forum trains us to ignore the big stuff and hone in on all the little tiny nothings.

People are routinely drawn halved and quartered in there for saying something totally innocuous. Forum posters will spend days, weeks, sometimes months tearing into someone but never bothering to notice the blood running across the floor. God help anyone with a clever sense of humor, or a clean opinion. No, no, we can't have that!

I was thinking about the Forum, and how convoluted and bizarre the behavior is in there. It's like a bunch of people walking around picking up bits of lint at a garbage dump. Something is very very fucked up about that.

The Forum is loaded with whining panting moaning groaning "processing" for one the most mundane and basic of life's "successes",
jobs, homes, cars, finding the perfect fabric for that reupholstering project, but the problems people bring there are serious and frightening.

No one seems to notice.

Something happens to your mind there not to mention your spirit. People are trained to be hypersensitive to anything that smacks of an independent opinion or a biting wit, and completely oblivious to pathological mind games and abuse.

A lot of people come here suggesting that we should just take the good from the Lazaris materials, pat ourselves on the back, and go for a happy hike in the woods.

I would suggest that all of that is fine and dandy, except that it is just a continuance of the avoidance and denial.

No one walks away from having had their subconscious raided and controlled without being damaged.

So, I would say that before we go on our merry hikes, that we should take a bit of an assessment to make sure we still even know how to walk.

I'm all for healing and moving on, but first you have to assess exactly what it is that needs healing. Healing can't happen if we don't even know we're sick. Maybe that's why Peny is dead at such a young age. Maybe the cause of death is denial.

Steve, I'm adopting your phrase "social castration", because that is exactly what is happening.

Power on Sista Bull Lesbian Amazon!

When any visitor announces that they are leaving I feel it only polite and proper to walk them to the door and open it for them. I take them at their word that they are ready to go.

I'm not one of those people who stands there for 6 hours kissing them goodbye and begging them not to leave. I hate it when that happens to me.

Katie

quote:

---

ARe there people who would try to crash in the site? There are people lurking here who do go to seminars and no doubt are afraid of losing that.

---

I don't know if there are people who would try to crash the site. If they got caught hacking us they would be breaking federal laws. I don't think Con:Sin would put themselves at that kind of risk just to ban a few people from seminars. I think they need all the attendees they can get.

Even if they hacked in the only information they could get is the same as what each of you provided when you registered, along with the name of your internet provider. Sometimes we don't even get that.

So, I don't think anyone is hacking this site, but if there is ever one indication that they are Ted will be sure to shut down immediately and inform the appropriate authorities.

I'm not worried about it.

Don't forget, in order for Con:Sin to do anything about this site they would have to admit to reading here, and from what we hear, that is a capital offense.

Thanks for asking, and ask again if you need clarification on anything.

Katie

You wrote:

"I don't find it constructive to read post after post that are blaming and rude towards Fingerprince. I don't know the guy, but reading his posts I must say, they are not the least offensive to me."

During his time posting here, among other things, Fingerprince has "diagnosed" Steve as a ranting sociopath, sweepingly characterized the conversation on this site as lacking in hope, help and profundity, suggested that Katie "adjust her meds" (and married her off to a man named Ken to boot) attempted to attribute dirty motives to me based on what *time* I posted a comment to him and is now dismissively labeling as mere "debunkers" those who question the validity of The Entity Formerly Known As Lazarus--given that, where's the balance in painting him as an innocent victim in this situation?

I think what you see as "rude and blaming" is the frustration several people feel with his underhanded tactics, Helena--just because he's refused to relevantly address the insults when they're pointed out to him doesn't mean they don't register, and attempting to bury the slurs in between several sentences that "sound" new agey doesn't mean they've been successfully hidden.

You wrote:

"I do think that his need for privacy should be respected. Why does that mean so much to you guys, that you become that aggessive towards him? So what if he's holding something back?"

If you've read the threads then you know that when Fingerprince first appeared, nobody demanded personal revelations from him; since then he has, in a public forum, repeatedly stated that he cannot reveal his private experiences in a public forum--to what end, Helena? Since everybody *got that* the first time round, why keep bringing it up? Since no one has begged him to reveal anything private, why keep saying "I just can't do it", as if you've got hordes of posters demanding revelations?

If I went into a Lazarus discussion with a group of "faithers" (figure if I'm to be labeled a debunker, I'll throw some labels of my own around ) and said, "Based on a horrific experience with EFKAL that forever changed my life, I know he's a complete fraud--but I can't talk about my psychic rape in a public forum, it's just too private" and everybody said that they understood, if I then went on to repeat that point several times again (offering it as proof that EFKAL is a fake) I expect there'd be more than a few people wondering, "What up with that?"

We've now reached the point where people are asking Fingerprince to stop talking about how he can't talk about his private experiences; hardly sounds like his "right to privacy" is being invaded to me.

You wrote:

"I wish you all good luck with your process and your growth."

And the best to you, Helena.

One final point--Steve makes me laugh on a regular basis and I appreciate his "no shit no shine" approach, but I think he was off base in his reply to you--I read nothing in your post supporting the idea he was "dumb dumb/ing" you for holding on to (buying into the "Lazarus/mind over matter" thing; as I read it, your post wasn't about validating the content of Fingerprince's levitation posts, but the way his posts were being received in general--imo, Steve reacted to something you hadn't written) and from what you've said here, you haven't struck me as particularly stubborn or cotton-earrish (certainly no more than I am.)

Good luck,

flo

To Helena you wrote:

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I really appreciate your hand to me. You brought tears to my eyes last week, with an unexpected post from you.

...too bad you're already married. ;-)

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Yeah, and too bad I ate breakfast before I read that.

Any clue as to how that comes across?

Hint:

Its not cute and fetching.

It is manipulative and "lounge lizard" obvious.

Dry your tears and quit subjecting us to your passive aggressive seduction techniques.

If ya don't mind.

Jeremiah

quote:

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What I've been after from the beginning are those who are not visible, those who have fears or wounds and are looking for some relief. As I pointed out earlier, they get plenty of anger and disgust and righteousness from those who speak the loudest in here. My voice, as obnoxious as it is to you and a few others, is hopefully one of an alternative to your alternative.

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Your messianic agenda is as obvious and attractive as a rash of boils.

You are just inching your way up that cross aren't you?...just don't forget the nails go in the wrists and ankles.. not the hands and feet..very messy that way..and a messy lookiing Savior is no good to anyone.

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In spite of what any of you say, I wouldn't mind being quizzed on what Lazaris has said. I don't have a perfect memory but I'm willing to bet I'm as good an authority as anyone else in here, and better than most.

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I wouldn't go after encouraging any more quizes regarding your expertise with the Lazaris material as you have flunked all of them so far.

Despite the fact you claim you are an expert on the Lazaris material, you seem to have not even groked the basic concepts that Lazaris talked about. Reading your posts I would assume you had never been near a Lazaris workshop.

From what I have seen Fingerprince, you are hardly and authority on what Lazaris said.

You may have warmed several seats in several ballrooms over the years but an expert that does not make you.

Attendance is not the same thing as comprehension. You have made that abundantly clear.

Since we don't have teachers here, I don't think there will be pop quizes.

All the tests you have flunked regarding your credibility as an expert on the Lazaris material were given to you by yourself.

You said you were an expert.

I say: bullshit.

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I'm not being passively agressive...I'm simply being assertive and incorrigible and unwilling to capitulate to views with which I don't agree.

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Fingerprince, youve got to be kidding.

Again, you flatter yourself out of all proportion.

You are not a maverick.

The self pitying whiner who alienates everyone with their behavior and then declares that the are "too much" for the world and a maverick IS A CLICHE.

Give it up, very very few people are that dumb.

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At some point in here, long before Katie, I will be gone.

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Wow thats like what Jesus told the apostles isnt it?

inch by inch up that cross..

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It's no more manipulative, however, than you (collectively) screaming and yelling and calling other human beings foul names, either for what they supposedly did or for disagreeing with you.

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Yes it is actually, much more manipulative..

but who was called foul names in here?

Foul names?

HUH??

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So again, don't feel so ego-centric...it's not really you I care about.

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Right. its the fearful and hurt you care so about.

Ahhh ..........and the lord said

"the meek shall inherit Fingerprince... "

I think the fearful and hurt have enough problems without you trying to speak for them..

but hey..maybe they will stop shivering and start speaking for themselves when they see who elected himself their representative.

Jeremiah

I havn't posted to Helen b-4, therefore I feel a bit out of the loop on this thread. But it has turned into such a compelling thread...
Always one to jump right into boiling hot water....yipee...that ole' aries/scorpio partnership....

My addition to Helena...yo...Helena....
you forgot that we all are well-aware of the Machiavelli school of manipulative tools...
we memorized # 5 use absence to create power and respect.
So I don't THINK we're gonna fall for that one.

Compelled to voice my opinion regarding the post from Fingerprice "Brought tears to my eyes, too bad you are already married.;-)"

Offensive to myself and others I am sure,
I would not like to see this site degrade to a meat-market romp that is so rampant on other sites...

If I were to wanna be a martyr, and whine like they do on the Forum, I'd say you are making it VERY unsafe here for us Gals, and for ALL reading/posting...but ya know what,... I'm not gonna DO that,,,just wanted to remind you about what kind of treatment you WOULD be subjhect to from those extra-shpechial majicians, you love so well...

Of course, we remind everyone reading OVER, and OVER about their RIGHTS..

And I have MINE as well....so...

You know, I wonder how fingerprince knows that Helena is married.

It's none of my business I guess, but I can't help but worry that she is one who has taken him up on his generous offer for a private email relationship.Is it possible that she was moved and touched by his "tears to the eyes" comment?

Hmm..is it my place to offer unsolicited advice here?

I guess not, but I don't mind saying that I have plenty of advice for anyone who is thinking of becoming ensnared in his sticky cyber trap.

I'll keep it to myself though unless asked.

I will comment on what we have seen here though, and that is that fingerprince has a penchant for quickly latching onto any female who so much as looks his way, and it's very very creepy.

It is also significant to me that of all posters here, he seems to be the most obsessed with me and my opinions. I wonder if that has anything to do with his issues around those of us of the female persuasion.

Oh...it's too creepy to think about.

Ok, I'm going to cave.

Be very very careful Helena. I really hope you have your boundaries very well defined and know how to defend them.

Katie

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My voice, as obnoxious as it is to you and a few others, is hopefully one of an alternative to your alternative.

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You also said you are not here because of us regular posters, but to present your "alternative" view to distressed lurkers. Good to know, because those of us who have been here for a while have already experienced your idea of an alternative, and after protracted thought and consideration rejected it for ourselves. Been there done that, ain't no alternative at all!

So you don't care about us ("collectively" as you conveniently like to see us). But you want to use this space to help confused and hurting observers. Amazing!! Too bad C:S has only provided a forum that is oppressively repugnant to all but a few diehards and some who linger out of curiosity. And apparently "Lazaris" has not seen fit to magikally provide you (and those of like mind) with a proper platform. So here you are doing unpaid promotion for Super Twinkie in a neighborhood that doesn't like junk food.

Must be be time to pull out those 20 years of tapes and start programming to manifest a supportive cyber-spot to tout the Twink.

Jade

Per usual, you make great points.

Maybe you recall that I did invite fp to start his own threads here, even to the point of inviting him to make his own rules so he could have his space and opportunity to be of help to the suffering lurkers.

I note he never took me up on that, choosing instead to try to make his mark by whining and manipulating, with a little sleazy sexual innuendo thrown in just to keep us on the verge of nausea.

My challenge to him still holds. Show us(your mysterious collective) how to do it better fp.

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Originally posted by Katie:
You know, I wonder how fingerprince knows that Helena is married.

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Actually, it was Helena who initiated the little flirting thing between herself and Mr. P, and she mentioned that she was married. I don't remember where that post is.

I do echo Katie's advice regarding boundaries. I think there's enough info here to allow Helena and any other silent readers to make appropriate decisions about pursuing email relationships. Hopefully people will remove the cotton from their ears long enough to check things out before rushing in where angels fear to tread.

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Hopefully people will remove the cotton from their ears long enough to check things out before rushing in where angels fear to tread.

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Originally posted by Cristaldreams:
.... What is this topic about? Umm, I mean the lazaris thing? .... Actually I am trying to find a general discussion topic...

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Don't quite know how you landed in the middle of a Lazaris disucssion, but for more explaination go to this link: http://www.cosmicfool.com/discussion/

This will give you the links to a description of this site and to the top level discussion topics, which include many non-Lazaris metaphysical and spirituality discussions.

Yours,
Melinda

quote:

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Maybe you recall that I did invite fp to start his own threads here, even to the point of inviting him to make his own rules so he could have his space and opportunity to be of help to the suffering lurkers.

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I missed that. Fingerprince, sounds like a a couple of weeks of processing, meditations and a techniques from the "Receiving" tape are in order. Your own threads, your own rules, and no web site hosting fees. Such an opportunity!!

Now you have me thinking Katie. The Green Jade Salon Thread. One firm rule -- no posts without icons!

Jade