The last thread is getting too long, and way off topic, so I'm going to try to start new threads which will separate both pertinent discussions.

On the original thread there is discussion in response to Jeremiah's original post but since it is so on topic and raises so many important questions, I'm re-posting it here, hopefully as a springboard for continued discussion on this significant and pertinent topic.

Originally posted by Jeremiah:

quote:

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Dear All,
In his email Jach explains Michaell's suicide with the following:

quote:
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Peny and Michaell, in the richness and depth of their
> love and intimacy, had
> an agreement that if one of them died, the other would
> follow as soon as possible.
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Peny, Michaell and Jach organize their lives around communication with a non physical entity.

And yet at the crux of this suicide pact seems to lie the belief that intimacy and love is less profound between the spiritual and physical worlds.

The belief seems to be that in order to love a person fully and experience that intimacy fully both parties must be alive together or dead together.

Thats fine, many people in the "consensus" believe just that.

However,

Peny talked about the depth of love and intimacy between herself and Lazaris and yet Lazaris was non physical during that period she was physical..certainly.

CS is heavy handed about marketing Lazaris love and caring. "Forever and a day...etc"

The whole nexus of their marketing plan is that love and intimacy with the unseen is not only possible but already established and readily available in the form of Lazaris.

Yet Jach Peny and Michaell seemed to believe that the membrane between physical and non physical existence is a barrier to love and intimacy?

There is also the issue of what Lazaris [although not just Lazaris but what even consensus science teaches] that time and space are illusions of this 3 maybe 4 dimensional universe.

Lazaris teaches, intelligently and coherently [imo] that we are multidimensional beings.

As multidimensional beings, death is an expansion beyond the physical where the restrictions of time and space do not apply.

We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

With death, that experience expands beyond the physical but does not preclude the experience of the physical.

In other words we don't "loose" anything. We gain perspectives beyond the physical without loosing the option of a physical perspective.

A less dense perspective perhaps, but from all reports that is a delightful way to experience the physical world.

Consciousness is multidimensional.

Lazaris talks about how when your die friends and relatives who are still "alive" greet you because you have expanded your awareness of your own multidimensional nature.

It seems that with physical death, according to Lazaris, the distinctions become much less rigid between "life" and "death".

Yet in light of all of this profound [again imo] teaching about the multidimensional nature of us spiritual beings having a human experience, Jach, Michaell and Peny make a suicide pact?

here is another strange thing:

Time and space are illusions. Thus any experience of seperation is an illusion.

It doesn't make ANY spiritual or metaphysical sense to slay yourself in order to continue to experience a relationship with a loved one you experienced while physical.

Further.

Since time and space are illusions, it makes no sense to "hurry up" to be with someone who has died.

Michaell North could have lived to be 170 and at the "moment" of his death chosen to make it "the moment" that Peny died physically and the two of them could have experienced their "covenant" without any loss of physical life.

Lazaris lucidly taught that time is an illusion. Lazaris pointed out that one way to conceptualize time outside of a linear framework is to think of time as a series of points of consciousness.

Not only that but as I understand what Lazaris teaches, you don't have to die to change your experience of linear time to something more exponential and multidimensional.

Peny wrote about communicating clearly with the dead in the forwards to some of those books.

Some might argue that "yeah, all that is true but they must have been going for some esoteric intensity that they had a secret handle on."

Maybe, but doubtful.

It is disturbing to think that all those people in the forum having the same thoughts and questions I just expressed are most likely being manipulated into silence by the gang.

We must allow for the possiblity that there wasn't really a covenant after all. That is less showy and dramatic but certainly a possibility.

Another possible version of events has to do with Peny being unable or unwilling to grok and apply metaphysics to her own at one time promising life, driven by delusion and paranoia, simply died.

Maybe Jach and CS never took to heart what Lazaris said about death not being a failure and that death is not a shameful act. Not knowing how to handle the questions and expectations decided to hide.

Maybe Michaell overwhelmed with grief and in a confused state simply killed himself.

Maybe we will never know.

At this point I have a hard time buying this Adonis and Venus story they are putting out now.

The thing that really disturbs me if this suicide pact did in fact exist is how the pressure to fulfill the "covenant" affected Michaell in the moments after Peny's death.

Did he really want to end his life or was he afraid to go on with his life without honoring his "commitment"?

I sincerely hope that he wanted to die with an open and complete awareness and that there wasn't a circuit of psychological pressure to end his life because he promised he would.

Jeremiah

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