That is a very powerful post! Nothing like a first hand, very personal, negative experience with an 'All Knowing, All Mighty' being, to really turn you right off!

I would like to see someone try to candycoat that experience! "Must have been in your highest interest my dear. Lazaris knows!"

Good for you for sticking by your family!

It's good to meet you too.

No, it did'nt sound to me like you were yelling. I'm really glad that no one is yelling (though I'm also for intensity!) even though we may have differing experiences and opinions.

I'm interested in you and your families story - and yes it sure sounds strange and frustrating and painful to me.

Thanks for the feedback and for expressing yourself,

Wow! You sound to me like you're really mad! Abandoned, rejected, betrayed, hurt, and extremely angry.

Wow! Now you sound to me like you're really having fun!

Feeling free, enthusiastic, excited and full of energy.

I appreciate your flexibility and letting go.

Would you fixate on someone else's opinions please?

I'm really tired of being psychoanalyzed. It's rude and obnoxious.

It's none of your fucking business what is going on in my mind. Please stick to the topic being discussed and stop trying to figure out WHY it is being discussed. That doesn't matter.

I'm completely disinterested in your evaluations and judgements of ME.

How about if we stick to the topic. It is not, and never was ME.

Thank you,

Katie

HUGGGGGGGGG.....You make me SOOOOOOOOOO PROUD and GRATEFUL........Your love is so passionate and real and I'm in awe of you, Dear Daughter!!! How blessed I am.....I love you with all my heart......When I "step-back" and just observe what kind of woman you have become, I know I'm seeing God/Goddess/All expressed/manifest and in action...

You, your sister, and your brother are my very GREATEST Joy and my very GREATEST Gift!!! Thank you for being my daughter and my friend......and for being the loving sister AND Auntie that you are.

to you, Vicki,

Mom

Vicki wrote:

quote:

---

I get pissed when I remember how L and CS tried to drive a wedge into our relationship. Because I'm absolutely positive that the next thing that Lazaris would have done is to tell my sister that the thinking of the rest of her family is "all wrong" and to distance herself from us.

---

Just to clarify this for myself, Vicki and anyone else in a position to respond, Did Lazaris actually say "Distance yourself from your family"?

Did Lazaris actually say that her mothers thinking was "wrong" were those the words/statements used or are those interpretations?

My reason for asking is that I spoke with someone recently who was at that intensive and this individual remembers Lazaris saying something to the effect that the girl was holding herself back out of a misguided attempt to please her mother ....or something to that effect.

This person was adamant that Lazaris did not tell her to distance herself from her family and did not tell her that her mothers thinking was "wrong"

I just want to know if these are exact quotes from Lazaris or interpretations.

Everyone hears a conversation differently, that we can assume so I am not impuning anyone here. Just want to clear that up as best as I can for myself.

Cheers,

Thanks for asking that question, since you've heard a different version of what Lazaris said in that Magic Time.

It's always good to keep our information as factual as possible.

I wasn't at that Magic Time, and only know what I have read here about the actual words that were spoken.

I am very familiar though with the end results of that special moment, and I do know that it served to create a distancing in that family. I'll leave it to Vicki and Marilyn to decide if they'd like to discuss the specifics of that here.

I can speak of how my own relationship with this person was manipulated by Lazaris though, and helped along by the sychophantic teeth gnashing of the Forum Gang.

Really, I don't feel right about going into details here, given that the subject of this conversation doesn't participate here, but I will say that she was subjected to the most vile and intense process of manipulation and indoctrination regarding her relationship with me and Ted. She was handed a choice, and the choice was to be considered "safe" to communicate with, or to stop communicating with me and Ted.

She was told that her feelings for us were silly and childish, that we were looking to start our own cult, that we are lonely, miserable people desperate for friendship, the kind of people who "never got picked for the team" in high school, etc. etc.

All this from people who never knew us, or worse from people who had met us and interacted with us in a mutually friendly way. One of our assassins was someone with whom we had a very intimate relationship and who came to us for support and counsel during a family crisis, not five minutes before jumping all over us in the Forum. I wonder why all of a sudden we became such losers?

I'm proud to say that our friend never supported those character assassinations and was sickened by them, but very sad to say that she did ultimately cave into the pressure.

My last conversation with her was so goddamned horrible and painful for both of us that I knew we did have to stop trying to communicate. Both of our hearts were shredded.

We have ultimately reached a place of resolution between us, which is basically that it's just too painful for us to try to interact in anyway beyond the most superficial.

People can analyze this situation anyway they like, but I can tell you that the pain in all of this was intense. I'm still feeling the sting of it when I think of this beautiful woman and the joy that we once shared in knowing each other, and how it is gone, not because of a lack of caring or interest, but gone because of control and manipulation.

I know that she was targeted by the Gang and friends as payback to me, Ted and Marilyn for trying to stand up in the Forum. Jach saw the weak link and went for it. Not that she is weak, but that she of all of us is the most indoctrinated. I don't take it as a sign of weakness to be the subject of mind control.

Regardless of the exact words that were spoken to her, I know that she was targetted in that Magic Time too, and I know why.

Isn't it just amazing that she happened to get the mike when so many other people were jumping up and down straining to get it?

Why did she just happen to be the "lucky" one?

Because Jach uses Magic Times to play payback, and gotcha under the guise of Lazaris, that's why.

We have plenty of other testimony to support that.

Katie

L said that my thinking IS all wrong.....and strongly suggested that "ties need to be broken."

...[[[the girl was holding herself back out of a misguided attempt to please her mother ....or something to that effect.]]]

Yes, I'm sure he said words to that effect as well...most likely when summarizing the interaction and talking "about" and not "to."

My immediate impression was "what the FUCK is going on??? Oh my God, Katie's right..." Those were my exact words and I was filled with anger at L...or was it J???????? There was no reason to say things in the "way" he did.....

Oddly,(?) a few others at the workshop thought L said it because of Forum Storm and my leaving the forum, and said so afterwards.

Also, oddly enough, I had originally called my daughter not only to see how everything was but to tell her that a friend and I had decided to attend a November workshop.....of course that trip never came about....

Marilyn

My sister was holding herself back due to the fact that she was in shock over what L said. The last thing that she expected to hear was a speech about my mother and her thinking. What does my mothers thinking have to do with my sister?! My sister is an ADULT who makes her own decisions and creates what I think is a beautiful reality for herself. And one question that I have is if Lazaris is teaching people to be map makers and magicians-- then it shouldn't matter what anybody else is thinking. I don't think that I should tell you what her question was due to invading her privacy. I get soooo upset when I think about this--I feel as if they stole her time in order to get back at my mother. There is no excuse for doing that.

My sister is a strong and loving woman who 100% believes in the reality of Lazaris. That's okay with me--I believe that we are all on different paths that lead to the same place. How and when we get there is up to us, and the whole experience is like a big game--not to see who wins--but just to play and have fun.

Okay, I'm off to do more reading.

I think L meant that your sister was holding herself back from "success without struggle" because she wanted to keep a belief in struggle to 'prove mommy right." I do believe that can be true when a child loves the parent so much and is dominated by that parent...but though the love is that strong between us, we don't have that kind of relationship, as you well know. If L had been specific in that he was referring to her when she's in her child-self and the mommy I was when you were children, I'd have been understanding to that and probably would have gone to the November workshop.

IMO, it was a child-psych response to a question where it could apply to some extent to everyone. It was well-known in that forum how much we love each other. Don't forget, I posted a lot in that forum and was very vulnerable about my life as a young mother. They had MUCH info that they could embellish, if they so chose.

To me the oddest, strangest thing he said was that my thinking IS all wrong......odd, because L knows me and knows how much I loved him! Even the breaking ties part wasn't as odd, because IF we had that kind of a relationship, it would have been obvious to all, including me, and I'd have tried to break those ties myself long ago...I love her enough to do so. No, the love is very strong and intact, and it's healthy and positive, but the apron strings were cut long ago! Perhaps they weren't aware that she's been on her own for at least ten years, and worked her way through college???!!!!!

I think J took advantage of being 'L', to make that statement to prove a point to all who were listening.......because of Forum Storm and because I quit the forum. Sort of like, "Aha...here's a chance to say this..."
And I don't think it was to punish me because quite frankly, Vicki, they don't give a hoot about me!! I think it was to convince others that Peny and the rest are right because "L" said it...the way he did and because many in the audience were forum members and well-aware of what had happened.

That's my take on it as far what was said about me, but I could SPIT in their faces for doing it the "way" they did and hurting your sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that's not a dominating mother talking...that's just plain loving my beautiful daughter!!!!!!!

Vick, I've been blessed with having the three most fantastic children any mother could hope for. You have all become the most wonderful young adults whom I totally love and respect with all my heart.

Mom

Knowing you and your love for your children, this incident would have been enough for me to put the "X" on Lazaris, even if I had no other issues. Is this more emotional than intellectual? Maybe. Tough Wouldn't "Lazaris" be the first to say that we need to listen to our emotions as well as our intellect?

This incident is about the slimiest, most disgusting, underhanded works of self-serving manipulation I can think of.

I do have to disagree with your assessment that it wasn't about punishment. I'm sure that's not all it was about, but my experience tells me that Jach is an extraordinarily punishing piece of work. And his primary, if not only, tool is this phony orb he's thrusting on people. As I said before, "gag me with an overpriced crystal".

It's been really difficult and uncomfortable writing about that "time" mainly because it wasn't mine to discuss. Though I stand by all I've said, and have tried to be clear and honest about it, it feels like I'm betraying her and would prefer to keep it private from now on.

Thanks a bunch for understanding, because I know you do...huggg

Marilyn