Wish I had Steve's unique, indescribable literary style to express my opinion about that idea.

Love,
Jade

quote:

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The funny names are simply brainwave frequency levels, just shop talk really.

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Funny names? You are talking down to us here, and in general on from under your "hypnotherapist cap." Pretty caught up with your own expertise.

If you want to teach, better pay attention to your audience. Haven't you noticed that the regulars on this site are intelligent, educated (formally or otherwise), mostly older than you (read more experienced, and yes I'm easily old enough to be your mother) and savy enough to have dumped the Orb. Which means that we have all been in your shoes (inside the box), but you have not been in ours (outside the box).

You actually will be heard better if you speak as a friend instead of an "expert."

Momma Jade

Love,
Jade

Hi Jade! Hope you had a wonderful time in Hawaii. I was thinking about you while you were gone as well as someone else I know out there

Been visiting the site on a daily basis again since the news for info and what a cornucopia of information and ideas!

Jade, you asked about the guided meditation? Yes, a suggestion was made and here's the link:
http://www.cosmicfool.com/discussion/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000137.html

It's a post by IMAKAY to Katie and Ted, and she included Katie and Ted in that suggestion to lead a group meditation...or "someone" - not just Chris. They were all participating in this thread.

Katie, it's my impression she made that suggestion of her own desire to see closure and of her own volition - whether I agree with her or not, I felt those were her sentiments and how she felt about a certain situation...not as a result of any effort by Chris to solicit her business on or off the board.

I may not agree with Chris on everything, and I certainly don't concerning Lazaris and the hypnosis issue, but I have always respected Chris as coming from a place of integrity of his beliefs and don't believe he is using this board or anyone for ulterior motives.

I understand that you don't want advertisers on this board, but I also know you were gracious enough to invite me to let you and others on this board know when my CD was done. Jade also has shared her beautiful jewelry here and from what I remember, everyone was delighted she did so. To me it was a way of sharing more of who she was and I think everyone took it in that way. That's how I view my music.

It's my understanding when you previously deleted advertisement posts they were one time ad posts, and I understand and support that policy. And even though Jade and I aren't anything like that, I think, technically, we come closer to the advertising infraction than any post of Chris that I have read.

I also have never gotten the impression that Chris has set himself up as anybody's spiritual leader. He just believes there's nothing inherently wrong with having teachers or leaders. Maybe I'm wrong in this impression, and he can correct me, but it is the impression I have.

Regarding your assertion Chris was diagnosing and prescribing treatment for Audrey, I've always suggested eating something to others after a mind-altering experience as well. I never went to a seminar without chocolate. Worked for me. Hey, honey, any excuse will do when it comes to chocolate!

Gotta run but I'll be back to post my thoughts to Chris in regards to Lazaris and hypnosis.

"It seems that you would like us to have rules here. You are not the first to suggest that people on this board should in some way be restricted in what they say"

As you know my background now of being an ex-nun, I have to say that I have had enough of rules to last many lifetimes but there is the question of freedom or license.

In our society there are some unspoken rules that most adhere to- even on the internet.

"When people exercise their fundamental right to free speech, they will offend someone.....
It is an exercise in maturity to allow for others to speak their minds."

Yes, Katie it is an exercise in maturity. But it is also an exercise in maturity to be aware of the language that we use and its affect on others, it is also an exercise in maturity to know that what we say and do has impact.

"One was NOT allowed to be an individual at the con;sin site, here one is URGED to be individual"

I can find many ways of being an individual without having to swear or bashing a person.
Just because I am an ex-nun does not mean that I don't swear. I can swear very effectively but I have chosen to be careful of when and how much I do it because I readily feel the change of energy when I use the swear words.

I had harbored an intense anger at God and one day in meditation I finally told God that I was going to "cut lose" and that if he could not handle what I had to say to him, then he was not God. And for the next half hour, I sobbed, swore and called him every name in the book. I was not consciously aware that I knew so many! At the end of the half hour I felt so much better and checked into all parts of myself if there was anything more that I wanted to say. When I was finished I heard an inner voice say: "Congratulations" There are times that it is very appropriate to swear and get it out of our system but I am questioning the continual
use which seems to point to being caught in anger.

I will state again - what Peny did was not right but have none of us ever hurt people?
She may have done it on a larger scale and in a more public place.
She may be in a place where she now sees what she has done and what she may choose to do another time. It appears that we are still caught in the game of bashing and judgement.

There is a difference in knowing what has happened, deserving to know, using discernment, helping others to heal (which I feel is the one of the purposes of this site- or I would not be here) and continually putting the "perpetrators" down as some of the most "evil" people on this planet.

They were not the worst people on the planet.

To continually make fun of someone's weight is called spiritual growth? To see and say that apparently she did not follow what Lazaris taught is one thing but to continually bring it up feels like degradation.

[This message has been edited by dreamspring (edited 10-27-2001).]

I have some thoughts on it, I'm going to post Imakay about them.

It's good to hear from you, glad to know you are still with us. Hope all is well with you and yours. Hey, one of my daughters just joined a band as a back up singer.

Love,
Jade

quote:

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Originally posted by Donna:

I will state again - what Peny did was not right but have none of us ever hurt people?
She may have done it on a larger scale and in a more public place.
She may be in a place where she now sees what she has done and what she may choose to do another time. It appears that we are still caught in the game of bashing and judgement.

There is a difference in knowing what has happened, deserving to know, using discernment, helping others to heal (which I feel is the one of the purposes of this site- or I would not be here) and continually putting the "perpetrators" down as some of the most "evil" people on this planet.

They were not the worst people on the planet.

To continually make fun of someone's weight is called spiritual growth? To see and say that apparently she did not follow what Lazaris taught is one thing but to continually bring it up feels like degradation.

DC[/B]

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Hi, Donna.

For what it's worth, I agree with you.

At first, it was great to know that I "wasn't the only one," who felt some pain and/or disgust at behaviors by some people who I would have expected to be more "above-it-all." When I first came in here about two months ago, I saw others with stories not totally dissimilar to my own. That was comforting.

What was dis-comforting was that there was an appearance of "not moving on." Maybe the moving on process is slow. It certainly is for me...I'm still having resistance to letting go (though it's infinitely better) of a girlfriend from four years ago. When one continually goes into strong emotion, i.e., swearing, ridiculing, trying to "one-up," etc., it is clear (to me,) that the wounds are fresh and not healed. Revisiting the events of the wounding over and over also indicate that healing is not complete, I think.

I personally don't object to gathering information and finding commonality. I'm here, with a second look. If the information remains the same, then this arena will turn to dust. If the information shows life, then I suppose it can grow. Passing judgement over and over on the same event gets old, too.

I came in here a few days ago and have shared information. Lots of it is "me, too,"-type data. I don't think there are very many judgemental statements in there about Concept:Synergy, though. I've told some stories and said that these things hurt or that I concluded there was hyprocrisy, etc. and that I would not sell myself out to play in that sandbox. Most of my emotions on those events are "played out."

I have passed judgement, however, in a positive direction in regards to Lazaris. This is because he hasn't "played out," with me. I live with his words all the time. One could see this as brainwashing, perhaps. From my point of view, however, all of us ring words from somewhere all the time, anyway. Before Lazaris, I might have run words from my best friend or from a boss at work or from any number of places. Running words from Lazaris seems like a more hopeful and helpful source to me.

Therein is another point: being hopeful and being helpful and showing promise. Most of what I've seen in here is a collection of thoughts or experiences gathered by lots of humans and then put into words for mass absorption. While the stories may be new and therefore exciting, there really aren't too many profound lessons, vis-a-vis Richard Bach 's characters (in "One.") This is one thing that Lazaris DID provide on a regular basis, and may be still providing (I haven't been to a workshop since the Millenium so I don't have first-hand knowledge.) He also did it consistently and without pulling us into feeling that he needed to heal his wounds. I suspect no one would go there often if we had to constantly say "There, there, Lazaris, it'll be all right."

I mentioned the "swarming thing" that I found in the forum and how unsettling and obnoxious that was to me. I'm glad to see that there is not that going on in here (two or three replies doesn't consist of a swarm, I don't think.)

I, like you, don't like the heightened emotions, though, displayed or conveyed by swearing. Once in a while is okay but not as a diet.

And while Peny may have failed in her attempts to take care of her body, it was up to each and every person with whom she came in contact to make an adult decision to not pay too much attention to her advice on the same subject. I "slough off" health advice from most people who I see with a cigarette in their hands. Same thing!

Maybe being that "eight" that I am makes it easier for me to not get seduced by another person's attempts to control or maybe I don't like the idea of someone being more important than myself. Whatever the case, this is why Concept:Synergy turned me off, once I felt that that was how I perceived them.

Does anyone else remember Peny writing in the Compuserve room that "WE'RE THE BOSSES!"? That was a big time turnoff to me and I wasn't there much longer after that.

Are any of you aware that Concept:Synergy had a RULE, a real rule, that no member was allowed to have a romantic relationship with any other person who was a friend of Lazaris?
That, too, was a great disappointment to me, when I heard that (again, because it smacked of cultish behavior...i.e., it's okay for the leader(s) but not the followers or, in this case, the staff.) But, like all things, it is up to each person to accept and honor whatever they desire.

Still, Lazaris is a puzzle. We are all having a difficult time understanding how he could "allow," all these things. I am left with having to believe that he really, really won't intrude on ANYONE's decision-making. That when he says he respects us, he really means it, in ways that are beyond our abilities to understand. Most other explanations are contrary to the love I've felt.

Anyway, Donna, thank you for your balance.

I wrote a response to your post to Donna in a new thread about Judgements and what is appropriate.

Please read there if interseted,

Jeremiah

Thank you for your words.

I am so grateful for all the experiences in my life - I can only say that now - even the tough and the very tough ones and I am finding more and more avenues of learning and growth.

The joy of living is is becoming more real each day.

Donna

I'm working my way backwards through the site, we're in the midst of hosting a housefull of company, so it's been a bit trying to keep up, so my apologies to you and anyone who has written posts to me which have been unanswered.

quote:

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As you know my background now of being an ex-nun, I have to say that I have had enough of rules to last many lifetimes but there is the question of freedom or license.

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What you say about freedom and license is true. But, again, who issues the licenses here? I'm not about to. I think what you are saying is that it would be a very good thing for each of us to be responsible to behave in a way which is not offensive to others. I agree, but I don't know exactly what that way is. I think I'm probably correct in suggesting that everyone here has offended someone at one time or another.

I appreciate that you state your own boundaries, that's a good thing. But,there are no enforcers here, so all we can do is hope that your stated boundaries are respected. Mine certainly have not been.

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In our society there are some unspoken rules that most adhere to- even on the internet.

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Really? I haven't experienced that, not even on message boards which abound with rules and enforcers. What are those unspoken rules?

quote:

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Yes, Katie it is an exercise in maturity. But it is also an exercise in maturity to be aware of the language that we use and its affect on others, it is also an exercise in maturity to know that what we say and do has impact.

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I am well aware of that, Donna. Once again, I cannot and will not attempt to figure out what is and is not offensive to all who post here. As to our mutual impact, yes, absolutely we do, and we are, each of us responsible to come to our own decisions about how we choose to impact others. I'm a believer in "mind guerilla" warfare, and given that on not a few occasions, I've been shocked into reality by others who are also believers, I make no apologies. My choice. Yours as to how to respond.

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"One was NOT allowed to be an individual at the con;sin site, here one is URGED to be individual"

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I don't believe I said that. If I did, I retract it. I'm not here to urge anyone to do anything, except possibly to think and speak freely.

quote:

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I can find many ways of being an individual without having to swear or bashing a person.
Just because I am an ex-nun does not mean that I don't swear. I can swear very effectively but I have chosen to be careful of when and how much I do it because I readily feel the change of energy when I use the swear words.

---

Your choices, your style. Not always mine.

[quoteI had harbored an intense anger at God and one day in meditation I finally told God that I was going to "cut lose" and that if he could not handle what I had to say to him, then he was not God. And for the next half hour, I sobbed, swore and called him every name in the book. I was not consciously aware that I knew so many! At the end of the half hour I felt so much better and checked into all parts of myself if there was anything more that I wanted to say. When I was finished I heard an inner voice say: "Congratulations" There are times that it is very appropriate to swear and get it out of our system but I am questioning the continual
use which seems to point to being caught in anger. [/quote]

Wow, so you do know the cathartic value of cussing! Once again, we are each of us free to determine exactly where our swearing stops being a release and starts being an indication of holding on to anger. Once again, you seem to want to hold us to some rule that matches your experience. I'm not going to support that.

quote:

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I will state again - what Peny did was not right but have none of us ever hurt people?

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Ok, so since all of us have hurt others at some time or another we have no right to ever speak up about anything? Even Lazaris would not agree with that statement.

quote:

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She may have done it on a larger scale and in a more public place.

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Not may have, she did. And she did it from a self created place of spiritual authority.
On my list of crimes that is the worst.

quote:

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She may be in a place where she now sees what she has done and what she may choose to do another time. It appears that we are still caught in the game of bashing and judgement.

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Where she is now is not of my ability to know, nor do I wish to speculate. It's irrelevant. She may be gone, but the mess she created is still very much with us. At exactly what point do you think it is appropriate to stop noticing that? Maybe she is still in a place where she is still caught in the game of basing and judgement. I don't know how her death would change any of that.

quote:

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There is a difference in knowing what has happened, deserving to know, using discernment, helping others to heal (which I feel is the one of the purposes of this site- or I would not be here) and continually putting the "perpetrators" down as some of the most "evil" people on this planet.

---

Deserving to know? Wow! Where does deserving come into the picture? What is it that anyone is not deserving of knowing?

As to helping others to heal, I have a big problem with that concept. We heal ourselves, and IMO, the best we can do is allow for the healing of others. If there is anyone amongst us who has a belief in their ability to heal others, I hope they will shrivel up and get blown away on the first strong wind. Please! No miracle healings here.

I believe that love is healing though, self-love first and foremost, and the acceptance of being loved.
We can love our hearts out, as I believe The Divine does in every moment, yet most of us reject the offer more often than receive it.
Healing is a personal choice, and of our own private definition.

You may judge me to be a bitter and angry person, yet, possibly I am brimming over with love and compassion. Your attempts to heal me might actually be shaming to me, reflective of your personal judgements, and inappropriate beyond words.
To me, it is sheer hubris and arrogance to hold a belief that we can heal another. In doing so, we completely diminish them at the expense of our own egos.

If you want to be a part of my healing process please, love yourself enough to know that my experience is my own, as yours is yours.

quote:

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They were not the worst people on the planet.

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They are and continue to be the worst people who have ever strategically placed themselves into my life. Sure,there are many other evil people, possibly more evil than those soul rapists, but right in this moment, I choose to take on all evil in this microcosm of theirs. When we learn to recognize evil in one person it becomes easier to see it in the next. This isn't an issue of relativity, it is an issue of reality. I truly do not know how one can gauge evil.

quote:

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To continually make fun of someone's weight is called spiritual growth? To see and say that apparently she did not follow what Lazaris taught is one thing but to continually bring it up feels like degradation.

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As you may or may not know, I am a fat person. I say that with no judgement of myself because I am the same person fat as I am thin, and I have been both in this life.

Peny's appearance is pertinent, and you can be quite sure that some of us would be slamming her appearance even if she were the epitomy of culturally accepted "beauty".

Peny was a foul bitch from hell, and I make no apologies for any commentary on her appearance. She chose to turn herself into a circus clown, fat or thin, and that fact is indisputable, and worthy of comment.

If you would like to engage in a discussion about body image and health, I am more than happy to participate. I think there is quite a lot to discuss on those topics. When I attempted to participate in that dialogue in the Forum I was roundly shut down. I didn't know at the time that the most wonderful woman in the world, most powerful magician in the universe's discomfort with her own appearance was the reason for that.

Gotta run!

Katie

Regretfully, I have run out of time to respond to your post in it's entirety, but your opening line begs a response from me.

quote:

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For what it's worth, I agree with you.

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This is one of those Jach-like self-deprecating comments that has always struck me.

Why would you question the value of your opinion, even in the face of many who dispute or disagree?

No time to write more, sorry.

Katie

quote:

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Originally posted by Katie:
Hi fingerprince,

This is one of those Jach-like self-deprecating comments that has always struck me.

Why would you question the value of your opinion, even in the face of many who dispute or disagree?

No time to write more, sorry.

Katie

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Hi, Katie.

You make a valid point. Thanks for catching that; yes, that is definitely self-deprecating.