You already know of Peny's death Wednesday, May 9,
2001. I write to let you know
that Michaell joined Peny with his death during the
afternoon hours of the same
day.

Peny and Michaell, in the richness and depth of their
love and intimacy, had
an agreement that if one of them died, the other would
follow as soon as possible.

Michaell said his final physical goodbyes to Peny in
the early morning hours
of that day. During the afternoon hours, sitting out
by the pool where he and
Peny often sat together, Michaell ended his life. He
died quickly and without
any physical pain. His passing was also peaceful.
Sacred covenant fulfilled,
they are together now.

Society calls suicide a crime. Within the broad range
of spirituality and within
that which is called the new age, many judge suicide
as weakness in the face
of crisis or at least are suspect of the motives.
Perhaps in many cases such
judgments or suspicions are valid. In this case, they
are not.

I do not send this message to everyone on the Concept:
Synergy mailing list.
I send it to those such as you who have an open heart,
who have an open mind,
and who can understand that Michaell was not weak and
his motives were not suspect.

Michaell had a rare courage to make and honor his word
and to live, and now to
die, in a way that expressed his strength, his power,
his love, and his precious
and unending love for Peny. He had a phenomenal
courage to live and die reflecting
more of his real self.

Michaell's suicide was an act of incredible courage
and strength. His motivation?
His love for the most wonderful woman in the world:
His love for Peny.

I say it again: Sacred covenant fulfilled, they are
together now and forever.

Thank you for understanding.

I do not know when Jach sent this email.

I do know that he did so as a result of an ongoing police investigation into both Peny and Michaell's deaths.

I have one immediate thought and that is encourage anyone who is even thinking along these lines to immediately get help should you consider that Jach's words in support of suicide are valid.

Suicide is an ugly, cowardly, punishing act.

Please, everyone, make sure that no one you know is taking Jach's endorsement of suicide to heart.

This could into another Heaven's Gate debaucle.

If you know anyone who is in deep grief over Peny's death, please make sure they are not alone, and not despondent.

If you are feeling despondent yourself, please call a friend or get help.

With great concern,

Katie

This is serious. Jach has elevated suicide to a noble status.

It is not noble, sane, or rational.

What Michaell did is sick, wrong, and ugly.

I implore everyone reading to take a quick and complete inventory of anyone you may know who might be influenced by this very very twisted email.

Please, no more death.

This site has been down for several crucial hours, the hours immediately following Jach's very bizarre email.

I don't know if that was because of a deliberate attempt to silence this site, or because of some accident of happenstance, but it concerns me greatly.

Jach's email also concerns me greatly. Is there anyone amongst us who agrees and supports Jach's perspective on Michaell's sick and cowardly decision to murder himself?

I sincerely hope not. And more than that, I sincerely hope that no one takes his endorsement of Michaell's suicide to heart and finds it an expedient way to find the favor of "Lazaris".

Think, think, think. The events of the past few days should serve to shock and arouse all and anyone to get it that all has not been well, happy, and healthy in Orlando world. These are some sick, sick people, and if Jach's most recent email, combined with his original dishonest one in which he mentions Michaell North as though he were a living being, combined with Jach's denial in December or thereabouts that Peny was fine and dandy, don't serve as a cold wake-up call I don't know what ever will.

These are frauds folks....get it???? Don't die for them, and don't let anyone you know make that now elevated choice either.

I know that Lazaris has spoken of suicide in derogatory terms. If you need "them" as a source, they too have condemned suicide as a cowardly and punishing way out.

Maybe Michaell couldn't face the fallout from Peny's death, the realization that this Queen of Healing, the Crystal Cave Goddess
could not heal herself. She could not "create" her stated dream to live a long and healthy life, she couldn't even go out in dignity, or in communication with those she claimed to love and heal. She was a fraud, and her death exposes her as such.
Maybe that little flea of a thing that was married to her couldn't handle the reality check.

Who knows why he checked out?

Michaell North, too cowardly in life to come forward.

Michaell North too cowardly to face life without his protector Queen Bee.

Michaell North...leaves behind nothing but a legacy of cowardice.

Michaell North, I condemn you for your foul decision and your complete disregard for its impact on those who enriched you.

Please, no one...no one...find any nobility in his rotten foul decision.

Jach! How dare you? How dare you attempt to personify this sick tactic of Michaell's as some kind of heroic action?

How dare you send the message that suicide for any reason is an enlightened decision.

How dare you make us wonder if this will be your decision as well. Now that you have elevated this disempowered, unspiritual action to one of enlightenment, will this be your excuse and choice as well?

No Jach. No. Don't do it. We need you here to explain, to be accountable, to handle the fallout.

You Jach, you who made it your life work to prop up and support this bitch from hell, it is your time now, your time to be accountable, and accountable you will be.

It is time to tell the truth. Will you be the one to tell it, or will it be told for you?

Your choice foul Jach, your choice. As you well know, our choices define us.

So, what will it be????

Come out from under your low and dark rock Jach, and speak the truth on your own, or trust me, you will be dragged out and exposed nevertheless.

This recent choice of yours to encourage and deify suicide might not be litigatable, but then again, should you succeed, it just might be.

Could it be?????

It's someone from that sick group, that I know.

So, good, read..read..read.

Now, what exactly are you doing to mitigate the sick suggestion that your channel slave has just offered up to his hypnotized specially selected followers? Not everyone, we note, only those with the heart to "get it". Good!

Here is a promise. Should anyone die, I will make it my obsession to see each and everyone of you rot in jail.

You are soul murderers, abusers, users, enablers and opportunists, and I promise you this, every nuance of your participation in this foul stench of a mess will be revealed.

Where were you during these past few days when Jach was covering up Michaell's suicide?

Where were you over the past few months when Jach was covering up Peny's illness?

Do you think you are teflon? Think again Gangsters. No, you are just as accountable to the laws in this country, and to the laws of God as anyone.

Hold onto your hats smug ones. This story is not over. Your free ride is over.

Ding Dong the Witch is Dead, and so is her pet monkey.

For you, it will not have a happy ending, of that I assure you, not one of you who has actively, consciously, greedily, and gleefully participated in this huge scam.

I repeat, if anyone dies, I have the list of names, and you damned well know who you are.

You will be held accountable, each and everyone of you spiritual vampires.

Of all the irresponsible, outrageous acts that Jach has performed in this life, this one is probably the worst. It's a stone, cold, manipulative lie that Jach believes that Michaell's actions were noble or that Peny is doing fine.

Even those of us on this site who despise her did her the honor of expressing our feelings honestly. There is nothing sacred about a "covenance" of denial, cowardice and deception.

How does any of this fit with the teachings of Lazaris? It doesn't. If there is a Lazaris, they would not wish to see people respond to this situation as Michaell has.

Jach, it's over. For once in your life, take proper responsibility and don't thrust it onto the sincere people who have put their trust in you and your alleged entity.

Peny and Michaell are not representative of people who have taken responsibility for their lives. Their destructive behavior and the subsequent consequences do not negate the power of meta-physics or the power of Love.

For these who are feeling disempowered because even the people closest to Lazaris have not manifested their desire, consider that many people who have never heard of Lazaris have lived long, rich and productive lives.

You reminded me that Jach only sent the notice out to people with "open hearts". So the people who did not receive a notice can feel ashamed of themselves. Same as it ever was.

Except I don't believe that it only went out to a select few. I think Jach sent it to everyone on the mailing list and included that little manipulation as a way to keep people from discussing it.

BTW, the object of Peny's obsession knew about it. I guess he's got an "open heart".

Jach wrote in his email that he hoped that people do not question Michaell's motives in taking his life.

I am wondering why Jach sent out an email announcing that he is mourning Peny's death along with Michaell and then today reveal that Michaell took his life shortly after.

I sincerely hope that anyone who is in pain or confusion over Peny and now Michaell's death and the sparse details around the circumstances of their deaths find a way to reach out and connect with others.

Everyone is an adult and is capable of making their own decisions.

I do feel there are circumstances in which despair and lack of answers can cloud the judgement of even the most sincere and enlightened people.

I think there is a potential loss of meaning for many people who were involved in the Lazaris material now that Peny and Michaell are gone.

When a sense of meaning is lost, it can be a painful and dangerous time.

Peny and Michaell's deaths have tremendous impact on so many people. Michaell made a choice for whatever reason to end his life shortly after Peny. His choice, his reasons. so be it.

I do not sit in judgement of that decision but I do not nobilize or elevate it either as I feel Jach's email attempts to do.

For me it doesn't work to say that a love is so great that if the object of my love is gone there is no reason for living.

It is a choice one is free to make but in my opinion it is not a growth choice but one made out of fear that life without a certain person lacks meaning.

That places an enormous burden on the psyche of another.

For a person to decide that life is not worth living because another specific person is no longer on the planet is a tremendously painful and constricting pyschic contract in my opinion.

This is not consistent with any model of pyschological or spiritual health that I am familiar with.

I love the expression "God is in the details" for me that sums up as best as can be articulated the search for the meaning of life.

This is a universe of unending detail and thus unending opportunities for meaning, in other words..God is everyhere and never in only one place, certainly not in one specific mortal person.

The point that I am ever so slowly getting to here is that the inevitable consequence of placing all the meaning of life on one other mortal persons shoulders is that you loose a lot more than physical life.

In essence you are saying "God is here and nowhere else".

All this is to say I hope that everyone in pain over these difficult events finds some solace in reaching out and connecting with others.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

Bucky was at Anne's hospital bed side when she passed. Bucky then, in full vibrant health, took his daily afternoon nap and died in his sleep.

We cannot "create our own realities" in any wierd, arrogant, spoiled-rotten way we want them -- for long people. That is a slick cult grifter's crazy making "almost spiritual success" eternal weekend seminar series, mindless Animal Farm, "Keep up with the Joneses" self-perpetuating spend thrift greed trap.

Look at what that absolutely spiritually insane belief did to Peny.

Think of Jane Roberts with her agonizing death after long, long arthritic hospitalization and resultant near bankrupcy for her dear husband Robert (after Seth had them cancel their health insurance as a demonstration to their subconscious the belief that they "live in a protecting and safe natural world").

We can only create a responsible -- or irresponsible (Peny) personal: physical, emotional, thought, and social relationship with Reality. Capital R.

Bucky and Annie were clearly *very* close and intimate with Reality.

I lost my mate nine years ago -- absolute soul mate if you will. Suicide was a very strong tempation.

James Van Pragh taught me to get back in touch with the only one I have ever loved this deeply and been this close to. His books about communication with the dead are well worth the read.

JZ Knight, Jach, Werner Erhard, L. Ron Hubbard -- now fallen "revival tent" grifters all.

Don't follow them over the cliff people.

And take care out there tonight.

God bless you Katie and Ted. Your site is now more deeply needed by more people for healing from Lazaris cult damage, socialized greed, and Reality disconnection than ever before.

God bless you.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

I just got on here because the site was down last night. I have an email from Jach. If this shit is true GOD/GODESS?ATI what the hell???!!!!

I just hope and pray that no one kills themselves over this. Please, do as Katie suggests. IF YOU ARE IN PAIN OVER THIS GET HELP. CALL A DISTRESS LINE.

[[Think of Jane Roberts with her agonizing death after long, long arthritic hospitalization and resultant near bankrupcy for her dear husband Robert (after Seth had them cancel their health insurance as a demonstration to their subconscious the belief that they "live in a protecting and safe natural world").]]

Jane Roberts did seek and receive medical attention.

Where did you hear that she canceled her health insurance at Seth's suggestion?

Seth never told them what to do. It certainly doesn't sound like something Seth would even suggest.

I never heard anything about them being nearly bankrupted. Can you provide a source for that?

you wrote:
[[[We cannot "create our own realities" in any wierd, arrogant, spoiled-rotten way we want them -- for long people. That is a slick cult grifter's crazy making "almost spiritual success" eternal weekend seminar series, mindless Animal Farm, "Keep up with the Joneses" self-perpetuating spend thrift yuppie greed trap]]

Steve, Jane Roberts did not live the kind of lifestyle that JZ Knight and Peny did. Jane and her husband lived a pretty quiet and circumspect life.

All they did was write books, no tapes seminars etc. Jane had a very strong independant mind.

She was an extremely disciplined writer and the only one I know out there who actively sought scrutiny from the scientific and psychological mainstream.

The material is very special,in my opinion, not just for its intellectual rigor but because of the integrity of the person who delivered it.

I don't know if you meant to include Jane in this characteriztion of yuppie greed but it certainly isn't true.

Chris

quote:

---

Jane Roberts did seek and receive medical attention.

Where did you hear that she canceled her health insurance at Seth's suggestion?

Seth never told them what to do. It certainly doesn't sound like something Seth would even suggest.

I never heard anything about them being nearly bankrupted. Can you provide a source for that?

---

I believe it is in The Nature of Personal Reality that Jane and Rob talk about making the decision after much input from Seth about the protected and safe *actual* nature of reality, in his view.

The particular event that pushed Jane and Rob over the edge into canceling thir health insurance is I believe... (there were so many books -- anyone have the specific reference or at least a hardcore Seth wonk cooberation here? ) recounted in N of P Reality as well: during a famous Elmira wind storm a huge branch broke off a tree and slammed through a window barely missing Jane. This "missing" her is used as the outer catalyst for the firming of Jane and Rob's belief, then that it was indeed safe to respect Seth's loud and humorous mockings of the perceived human need for health insurance. Jane and Rob did in point of fact -- at that time cancel their health insurance.

I was in Elmira shortly after Jane's death in fall 1984 and heard from one of their friends at the town paper -- I believe Sue Watkins that Rob had experienced an almost unbearable financial burden as a result of Jane's illness. It is my assumption that this financial burden was due to their continuing lack of health coverage or, at very least a serious pre-existing condition coverage exclusion once her arthritic condition appeared extremely medically serious.

quote:

---

you wrote:
[[We cannot "create our own realities" in any wierd, arrogant, spoiled-rotten way we want them -- for long people. That is a slick cult grifter's crazy making "almost spiritual success" eternal weekend seminar series, mindless Animal Farm, "Keep up with the Joneses" self-perpetuating spend thrift yuppie greed trap]]

Steve, Jane Roberts did not live the kind of lifestyle that JZ Knight and Peny did. Jane and her husband lived a pretty quiet and circumspect life.

All they did was write books, no tapes seminars etc. Jane had a very strong independant mind.

She was an extremely disciplined writer and the only one I know out there who actively sought scrutiny from the scientific and psychological mainstream.

The material is very special,in my opinion, not just for its intellectual rigor but because of the integrity of the person who delivered it.

I don't know if you meant to include Jane in this characteriztion of yuppie greed but it certainly isn't true.

---

You're darn right it isn't. I did not intend to imply that about Jane at all. That's one of the things I love most about Jane -- she was a true, simple living, honest human being.

Steve
sb6@atlavista.com

Here is what Seth actually said about health insurance, from session 660, May 1973 The Nature of Personal Reality:

""Not only do you operate within your own personal beliefs of course, but within a mass system to which you subscribe to one degree or another. Within that organization medical insurance becomes a necessity and I am not suggesting you drop it. Nevertheless, let us look at the situation more closely...."

Seth goes on to say:

"....within your system insurance is indeed a necessity , because the belief in illness so pervades your mental atmosphere"

I cannot find any reference in that book to Jane and Rob dropping health insurance.

I don't remember any reference to a bankruptcy in Susan Watkin's recent bio of Jane but I am looking through it again.

Thanks for writing,

quote:

---

I don't remember any reference to a bankruptcy in Susan Watkin's recent bio of Jane but I am looking through it again.

Thanks for writing,

Jeremiah

---

Cut the "thank you for sharring that" crap and give me a damn listen here, Mr.Peabody:

I said: *near* bankruptcy. And in my opinion you're on a sacred cow hunt. My friend -- we're standing in a GD field filled with bloody dead sacred cows right now!

I have not opened a Seth book since I *skimmed* them all twenty years ago. I'm no Seth head -- but I know the gist of what I read --

Get this:

-- Cartoon sized tree paw thing ka-booming through Jane and Robs window nearly missing Jane -- and the written decision to *dump health insurance*, following.

-- 1984, someone at the Elmira paper told me of Rob's (*not*) Bankruptcy.

I'm just a carbon based human being with an intense impression stamped social memory.

Eat some smiling dead chocolate rabbits or something.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

I received another copy of Jach's email which contained the following PS, missing from the first. I don't know if he amended it later, or if the first copies I received were somehow missing the addition.

quote:

---

P.S. In anticipation of your concerns, Peny and I also had an agreement. If
>something
>like this ever happened, I would stay; I would remain here. As Michaell
>honored
>his agreement so I honor mine.

---

Good Lord, they blissfully discussed all this and had it all laid out and settled?
I wonder why the Orb never bothered to mention it, or for that matter why didn't they? All we ever hear from them is how everyone else impacts THEM. What about how they impact US?

Or is it just our nasty little negative egos who are having a problem with all of this?

I continue to feel sicker and sicker about this crappy mess as time moves on. It's quite gratifying though, that I don't have to spend hours processing to figure out if it's me that's upset or my negative ego, martyr, victim, child, adolescent, nemesis, dark shadow, etc etc etc which is just acting up, or if I am coming from my Spiritual Adult.

Guess what? Any normal thinking, feeling, breathing human being would be upset by all of this. It's sickening. That took me 3 seconds to figure out in my new found freedom of thought and faith in my ability to feel.

Anyone up for a mass tape burning? Steve can bring the chocolate rabbits. (aint' they all dead Steve? Surely we haven't been chewing the ears off of living creatures all these years .

I don't understand the majority of your post.

Are you getting in my face or is it my imagination?

Wasn't busting on your motives, just trying to set the record straight..The Seth material is meaningful to me.

Best,

Jeremiah

Welcome! It's nice of you to share your thoughts with us, and I'm glad to know that ours are of value to you too.

I doubt that anyone from Con:Sin contacted the Orlando newspapers about Peny's death. It seems that they prefer secrecy and mystery to behaving like normal people, respectful of the fact that others besides themselves have feelings about Peny and Michaell's passing. They seem more in the business of manipulating everyone else's emotions than giving a damn about them, or allowing people to have a space to express or release their feelings. That is the purpose of funerals and memorial services, and from where I sit, they are very important and valuable.

No one has to attend a viewing or a morose ceremony, but surely between them all, with all their resources, they could afford to pay someone to organize a civilized memorial service for the benefit of those who would appreciate the opportunity to find some closure. No, that would be too much like respect. They have none of that, we have seen consistant evidence of that.

These people have so sheltered themselves from the rest of the world that I believe that they literally have no ability to recognize the realness of anyone beyond their own limited sphere. To Jach et. al, the followers are just marks, or bodies, or numbers on the plus side of his balance sheets.

I wish you well in sorting through all your thoughts and emotions about this very challenging situation, and I hope you will stick around and share with us if you feel so inclined.

As the days pass, more and more information is coming our way, I suspect lots more will be forthcoming. My sincere hope is that we will be able to piece together enough facts to provide a more real and accurate version of events than the airy fairy bullshit they are putting out from the Orlando Spin Machine.

All the best to you!

quote:

---

Steve,

I don't understand the majority of your post.

Are you getting in my face or is it my imagination?

---

Wah paaah you do undah stoind? Dem chow-co-late rabbits, dahm way dead bwoody cow guys, o da horse head next ta'yuh on dah pillow at dah quackadawn?

quote:

---

Wasn't busting on your motives, just trying to set the record straight..The Seth material is meaningful to me.

Best,

Jeremiah

---

Hey. Me too -- I was even in a Seth group for over a year -- run by one of Jane's original "Boys from New York". A blast -- accept -- I think I was the only obstinate book skimmer.

Steve
sb6@altavista.com

WE'RE ALL ALWAYS IN IT FOR OUR SELVES !!!

ya know,
i've worked with Lazaris on and off for the last 15 yrs.

i havent't been at a workshop in 4 yrs. but continue working with Lazaris on my own

I've had many multi-dimensensional experiences at this point, and quite frankly don't give a "SHIT" about which plain I'm in in the moment, AND am not considering dying anytime soon. (I'm not part of any CS gang...I'm just being honest with you all.)

I am grieving the passings of Peny and Michaell and am confused about such. I'm trying my best to respect their choices but also don't understand the neccessity of their leaving so soon.

This is the first time I've found, this web-site...and honestly I'm ashamed that I've read through it all....although I can say Years AGO I might have agreed with everything, I've experienced too much in my life to jump on the badwaggon of dissent at this point....this site is for losers who want to remain blind to the highest truth in life...'YOU CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY'

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAN WHY ARE YOU READING THIS?

.....excuse my intrusion.

I FIND THIS WEBSITE DISCUSTING AT BEST! and the creators should be ashamed...they're too weak to admit they know better!

The only thing(s) that are important are:

1. To whomever who's out there whenever: You create you're reality and your experience of it. Time and space don't exist, they're an illusion that make perception easier...they don't have any other purpose.

2. If LAZARIS is a fake, I've created him in my life for a reason....and I'm grateful to GOD that I did......
If I truly "create my own reality" I WILL create LAZARIS for future generations...so if you support all of the nonesence given as evidence on this site -- YOU'RE DOOMED -- to at least a few more lifetimes before you wake up.....and according to the astrological evidence that might take 100+thousand years......

So to all of you including those who have created this site, why don't you legitimately think about healing
"YOUR CASE" instead of imprisoning those you don't even know.

LAZARIS is a doorway out of the current 'trap' ; So are Babaji, and Sai Baba...there are even more choces available why are you looking for answers on this site? What you give your attention to expands and manifests..........GET OUT OF THIS SHIT HOLE NOW !!! even if you don't know who LAZARIS is. These jerkoffs never did!

Jesus was crucified by the same ASSWHOLES who are currently repeating some Karma.....

REMEMBER: it's between you and GOD.....PERIOD!!! If you want anothers opinion then you might as well listen to these idiots; it'll make no difference in the long run!

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

So... Why did you create us losers creating this website?

Cheers, Ted

Welcome to the site

You wrote:

quote:

---

If he is a fraud, I'm
not quite sure how to separate out what I learned from him vs. what I've learned from other sources.

---

Yeah, I know what you mean. Requires much discernment. A lot of the material is valid, so we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. That's one of the many problems with seeing a source as infallible - it weakens our ability to discern.

It also negatively impacts our self-esteem, because we have a conflict with what we truly believe and what the "authority" says. When our true beliefs don't jibe with the teachings, we feel shame. The shame is then used by the manipulators to keep us on the string.

quote:

---

ya know,
i've worked with Lazaris on and off for the last 15 yrs.

---

and such a ringing endorsement you provide. Hang in there the next 15 yrs are much easier. Of course since time is an illusion the amount of timelusion you have invested in Lazaris is not a credential.

quote:

---

I've had many multi-dimensensional experiences at this point, and quite frankly don't give a "SHIT" about which plain I'm in in the moment

---

Its plane, not plain. Stop jumping around so much its affecting your spelling. Do they have "SHIT" on every plane? Something tells me you find a way to import it if they don't.

quote:

---

AND am not considering dying anytime soon.

---

If only all of life's temptations were as obvious and easy to pass by as the one you offer with that line.

quote:

---

This is the first time I've found, this web-site...and honestly I'm ashamed that I've read through it all

---

You dirty dirty little boy.

quote:

---

....although I can say Years AGO I might have agreed with everything, I've experienced too much in my life to jump on the badwaggon of dissent at this

---

YEARS ago? remember its a "timelusion" remember that Woody Allen pointed out that dissent and comentary have joined to become disentary.

quote:

---

who want to remain blind to the highest truth in life...'YOU CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY'

---

you must have been on the "plane" to Iowa when Lazaris talked about truths higher than you create your own reality.

quote:

---

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAN WHY ARE YOU READING THIS?

---

Nothing good on cable?

quote:

---

.....excuse my intrusion.

---

you flatter yourself needlessly

quote:

---

I FIND THIS WEBSITE DISCUSTING AT BEST! and the creators should be ashamed...

---

yes, they are dirty dirty little creators.

quote:

---

they're too weak to admit they know better!

---

dirty dirty dirty and only dirty little boys read it.

quote:

---

The only thing(s) that are important are:

---

"thing[s]???? remember its a "spacelusion"there cannot be more than one "thing".

quote:

---

1. To whomever who's out there whenever: You create you're reality and your experience of it. Time and space don't exist, they're an illusion that make perception easier...they don't have anyother purpose.

---

Well, there is a third purpose. Time and Space afford us the opportunity to witness the witless antics of delusional wannabees with faux guru-type names.

quote:

---

If I truly "create my own reality"

---

If?? IF?? you create your reality? you just outed yourself.

.

quote:

---

....and according to the astrological evidence that might take 100+thousand years......

---

Creating your own reality supercedes astrological data. Further, since its all a timelusion your 1000000 year punishment is also a timelusion.

Jeezz the school systems on these other planes you inhabit have to be looked at. Must be the unions, they are just impossible.

quote:

---

Jesus was crucified by the same ASSWHOLES who are currently repeating some Karma.....

---

Oh no! not THOSE assWholes again!.. your on a slippery slope here. Karma? remember its all a spacetimelusion....Karma is based on time, cause and effect without time there is no Karma except that which you choose...ergo you dontknowhathefuckyouaretalkingabout.

What distinguishes you from grammar school nuns? A slightly more colorful wardrobe?

quote:

---

REMEMBER: it's between you and GOD.....PERIOD!!!

---

Thats a relief. Sounds like you believe in an angry angry god who gets plenty mad at dirty dirty little boys who read bad web sites.

quote:

---

If you want anothers opinion then you might as well listen to these idiots;

---

What does that make those that offer opinions on the opinions of others? why the idiots idiot, of course.

Listen do you always work alone? you might want to bring some pidgeons or white rabbits into the act... or some children..they ride plains for free ya know..

Jeremiah

I'm off for awhile to reap the annual rewards of my long career in the worlds most noble occupation, bringing up baby.

To all you Mom's out there, since the Hallmark company has foisted it on us all,
I hope you have a notable day basking in the love of your families and children.

To you other Mutha.......all I can say is
do the work before you try to steal the glory.

Katie

It does seem as though those of us who have rejected Con:Sin have a better grasp of the Lazaris material than many of the die-hard supporters. Is this a coincidence, or is it that the behavior and apparent attitudes of the Gangsters is so unlike the teachings that those who understand the teachings can't reconcile it?

It's amazing the mental gyrations that people go through to rationalize the contradictions. Th simple answer is the most likely. The simple answer is that Con:Sin is fraudulent. Even if "Lazaris" is "real" - i.e. not Jach consciously faking it - I believe the organization to be rife with fraud.

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It does seem as though those of us who have rejected Con:Sin have a better grasp of the Lazaris material than many of the die-hard supporters. Is this a coincidence, or is it that the behavior and apparent attitudes of the Gangsters is so unlike the teachings that those who understand the teachings can't reconcile it?

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True, very true. It is genuinely sad when persons such as our most recent saddest case prattle on with merry authority revealing themselves to be completey ignorant of the basics of metaphysics or Lazaris teaching of those principals.

Imagine someone who claims to have worked with Lazaris for 15 years invoking spooky tales of Karma and Astrology to manipulate people back into a box that he is comfortable with.

Why all the scary booga booga from Rojahh?

Maybe be because the man is scared shitless himself and doesn't want to be alone in his fear.

People like him fancy themselves super powerful because the grandiosity of their ego's often goes unchallenged. Not because people really believe the grandiosity but because these people often manipulate with fear to get confirmation for their alleged "specialness".

In my opinion this is part of what he was attempting to do here.

Thats fine. Its all a sham but its sad when people blunt their spiritual instincts for such limited benefit.

The really bizzarre twist is that he attemted to argue the importance of accepting the truth that you create your own reality by offering Karma and Astrological [concepts incompatable with that truth] threats as a motivation.

Poor addled soul.

Lazaris discussed both those concepts and without equivocation declared them limitations.

Karma is something chosen according to Lazaris by the individual and nobody else. Karma has no basis without time because without time there is no cause and effect.

Karma is released through forgiveness not through punishment or retribution.

Lazaris also discussed how astrology was originally a way to chart the influences present at ones birth and that its role as a predictive tool was out dated and limited.

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It's amazing the mental gyrations that people go through to rationalize the contradictions. Th simple answer is the most likely. The simple answer is that Con:Sin is fraudulent. Even if "Lazaris" is "real" - i.e. not Jach consciously faking it - I believe the organization to be rife with fraud.

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Well, I certainly agree with you that CS crowd demonstrates little to no understanding from a broad to a general sense of what Lazaris talked about.

I also think the grip of the psychic contract between them forbade anyone from surpassing Peny's level of development and spiritual prowess.

I wonder also if those gang members that intellectually understand the material are forbidden from applying it successfuly to their lives because the pyschic contract forbids surpassing Peny in any way.

Enough said perhaps but I do suspect thats how it all went sour.

I also wonder if at a certain point Peny stopped wanting to grow for whatever reason and went for power over others rather than personal power.

I wonder if those around her unsuspecting and educated to believe Peny more evolved than they began to form a psychic contract of pain and denial and self abasement to justify and honor Peny.

My belief is that the best they could do is ape her behaviour but never surpass her.

I also believe that the majority of the gang and gang wannabee's at one point were sincerely interested in spirituality but that they chose to persue this drama instead.

I think some still are and if they could break free of that contract alot might make sense..

Anyway these are all just my musings and opinons I have no empirical data to prove any of it and offer it as speculation.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

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I also think the grip of the psychic contract between them forbade anyone from surpassing Peny's level of development and spiritual prowess.

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Now there's a scary thought. For many, that would mean reverting to pre-adolescence.

You wrote:

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I also wonder if at a certain point Peny stopped wanting to grow for whatever reason and went for power
over others rather than personal power.

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I don't wonder about that - I'm convinced of it.

You wrote:

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I also believe that the majority of the gang and gang wannabee's at one point were sincerely interested in spirituality but that they chose to persue this drama instead.

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Could be. And that sincere desire will be the road to freedom

Cheers, Ted

It's a delight to see you here as well!

I hope you are having a wonderful Mother's Day