I got here the same way as probably many others have (like dogstar on another thread) because real information is hard to come by at C:S and an internet search for "peny north" turned up this gem of a site. My story could be told by cutting and pasting from the many messages I have read - I've had 12 years of using Lazaris materials, although I don't have a tape newer than about 1992 and only attended one seminar.

I have always had a problem with the subject of channeling, particularly when others are paying the channel, but decided that if Jach was faking it, it was a good act and the materials were valuable anyway. I decided to listen to the message but not give too much attention to the messenger. I don't know if that was the right approach - still thinking about it. That's what I've been doing the last few days, thinking and reading here and 'there'.

The contrast between the two sites makes a conclusion obvious - the people here seem to understand the Lazaris material in a way that seems to have totally escaped those who should know it best of all.

I have to credit some of those early tapes with major life shifts - for the better - and believe that there is much good in them. By the sound of things, the later material wasn't up to much but I can't really comment. I joined the CompuServe forum with delighted anticipation of communicating with a bunch of like-minded spiritual seekers and for sure there were some there. It didn't take long before I found out the dark side. Of course, I rationalised some of it at first as being my own ignorance. I only joined in a few threads, each post combed endlessly before sending for spiritual correctness a la Forum - down, neg ego, down martyr!! In the end, however, I'm not that good at contortions so I stopped logging on. I couldn't reconcile the loving and wise voice I knew as Lazaris with the hostile manipulations of some of his 'friends'.

I tried going back a few times over the last few years in case things had improved. They hadn't - they got worse. Still I kept the membership going - I really am an optimist. I still feel grateful to 'Lazaris' for some key 'ah-ha's!' that have really enhanced my life. Not that they weren't available elsewhere, but that is where I found them.

Peny's death was a bit of a shock as I hadn't realised she was 'missing' in the first place (months since I spent any time at C:S). It has been a catalyst for me to look closely at the whole mess and to come of the fence before I get splinters. I suspect I will be one of many, rather than few, who start to look at that organisation closely as a result of Peny's death and Michaell's suicide and truly see the rotteness there rather than just being uncomfortable with it. Not being a 'true believer' in the first place (although I did get both of Jach's emails!!), I am not in any grief over the loss of Peny or Michaell but realise many are. I hope they find the help they need - starting here.

I haven't agreed with every word I read (most of it!), but have gained a great deal of information and confirmation of my own intuitions. Thanks to everyone who has had the courage to voice their concerns and their truths, you are all amazing.

I am still mind-boggled by events (yet strangely clearer and relieved the bubble has burst). Still many questions: were these good and honest people who went wrong or was it a fraud from the start? Will we ever know? What's going on now? I'll keep reading!

Melanie

Regarding this point you're discussing:

"I also wonder if at a certain point Peny stopped wanting to grow for whatever reason and went for power over others rather than personal power."/Jeremiah

I've always wondered if Peny's downward spin was prompted by an unadmitted awareness that Lazaris' techniques weren't working for her.

On one of the chatty Kathy evening tapes from the eighties, Peny made an honest reference to her obesity and the judgements she received concerning her struggle with weight and her desire to start a group for other overweight women applying the material to that issue--what happened to *that* process?

Why the shift over twelve years from "Hey, I'm fat, I'm dealing, I'm not perfect, gimme some space" to "Being super sized is a perfectly healthy alternative and in no way taxing to one's physical being--bring on the red meat, progesterine and sunshine."

I can only assume that the techniques just didn't work regarding her obesity--and after devoting years and years to this material, how the hell do you swallow that little fact?

You're promising others untold measures of abundance and freedom, mastery with the very fabric of the universe itself, yet losing even twenty pounds is beyond you--so what the hell, drop the inconvenient self awareness, shift into domination overdrive and forget that you ever once publicly admitted that your weight was a problem you were trying to solve with the help of Lazaris--perhaps others will also forget that fact and just go along to get along.

So much for her often self lauded personal success, courtesy of the Lazaris material; dead in her early fifties, leaving a legacy of bitter and vicious attacks behind and dragging in her wake a suicidal husband; sounds more like an E Hollywood True Story than a fitting ending to the life of a master metaphysician.

flo

Welcome to the site!

You wrote:

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I got here the same way as probably many others have (like dogstar on another thread) because real information is hard to come by at C:S and an internet search for "peny north" turned up this gem of a site.

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So C:S's contempt is causing people to find the "enemy camp". Poetic justice or karma? Or are they the same thing?

You wrote:

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I haven't agreed with every word I read...

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Well, that's good, since we don't all agree on everything, it would be tough for you to agree with all of us simultaneously

You wrote:

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Thanks to everyone who has had the courage to voice their concerns and
their truths, you are all amazing.

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You're quite welcome. And thanks for your kind words.

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Still many questions: were these good and honest people who went wrong or was it a fraud from the start?

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Thanks for your welcome. There's a delay in my reply as I live in Scotland - just logged back on whilst having my morning coffee!

I am passing links and information to everyone I know who has been or is involved with Lazaris. Initial reactions are shock and disbelief - "surely this isn't what Lazaris was teaching?"!!! Most people I know were not involved with the Forum but just used the tapes. This must be truly mind-boggling for them.

Melanie

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Originally posted by justfacts:
It was a fraud from the start. They were playing with silva mind control, etc. in the early 70's (this is factual).

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Hi justfacts,

I'd gathered they had rather more prior knowledge of these techniques than admitted from this site, but what I'm wondering is was this a cynical out and out fraud from the start or did they have good, but misguided (any dishonesty would be a major flaw), intentions of actually helping people grow? In view of the fact that I feel I gained a lot of value from the 'Lazaris' material, I'd prefer the latter - but what I'd *really* prefer is to know the truth if that is ever possible.

There is always the possibility that there is something genuine in Lazaris - or was at some point, though I have never been too keen on the idea of channeled entities. For me, they are in the same class as the waiting alien space ships. I believe we have to 'resuce' ourselves.

Here's to the facts!

I feel relieved that Peny is not going to be able to shatter people any more. I didn't wish her harm, just wanted her to stop. Part of me wonders if this is another scam, it's hard not to feel suspicious of anything coming from C:S. Including the suicide pact.

I am glad that many people are looking more closely at C:S and "Lazaris." I can only restate that I feel much more myself, much freer and my life is really blooming since I ended my involvement with "Lazaris".

Love,
Jade

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a cynical out and out fraud from the start or did they have good, but misguided (any dishonesty would be a major flaw), intentions of actually helping people grow?

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