The discussion about synergy in the other thread reminded me of a recent spooky forum experience that speaks directly to the question of whether or not CS is now or is heading for cult status.

During one of the more recent forum blood lettings, a few disturbing posts appeared that at first glance appear to be just run of the mill "sucking up to Peny-wise sit on my face please Peny the air is too fresh and I am not worthy". posts. [last sentance dedicated to Steve Brooks]

The posts [as I recall all from gang members ] indicated that they had come to peace with the idea that Peny is "more" and their "ego's" are no longer "winning" to convince them otherwise.

[pause for a moment, while those that need to can heave into the nearsest trashcan]

Does anyone else remember this?

Can anyone who has been around CS for a while [Steve?] give any insight as to whether it is a spoken assumption that Peny is spiritually more valuable than anyone else?

Cheers,

Jeremiah

Your post makes me realize yet again, the amazing inconsistency of the Lazaris materials, and also of course the difference between what sparky sez, and what is actually "lived" by those in the "fold" etc.

Remember the tape where sparky sez " no-one is more spiritually advanced than another"... " how can you think you are more advanced than the mother who just drowned her children in a car, or the skid-row bum who just puked" etc. sorry if I don't have the wording exactly.
Anyway, I don't want to imply here that I agree or disagree with sparky sez.... What I want to point out here is the idea again like Katie had mentioned in a past note.... "are any of those people even listening to the seminars"?.
That is precisely how cults work, they get so twisted that one thinks pain is love, one thinks that constant admonishment is growth, one thinks incredible inconsistency is consistency... (but MY ego is in the way, so I am the only one here who thinks he didn't say what he said) etc. etc. ad-nauseum..

[Vicki says after lifting her head out of the trashcan ]

I don't know myself if there was ever any spoken words about Peny being more spiritually valuable than the rest of us poor schlepps, but I do know that they are trying to convey that message. I know, I know, it's obvious, but I felt the need to say it. I really liked what Audrey said:

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Remember the tape where sparky sez " no-one is more spiritually advanced than another"... " how can you think you are more advanced than the mother who just drowned her children in a car, or the skid-row bum who just puked" etc. sorry if I don't have the wording exactly.

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Sorry, I'll stop rambling and really try to collect my jumbled thoughts.

You wrote:

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The posts [as I recall all from gang members ] indicated that they had come to peace with the idea that Peny is "more" and their "ego's" are no longer "winning" to convince them otherwise.

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Well, further evidence that I'm in negative ego. If Peny is a saint, then I'm with Billy Joel - "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints". I think that quote deserves a

It's good to see you posting again. Be sure to try out some of the new icons. If you click on Smilies Legend on the Reply page, you'll see how to incorporate some of them into your posts.

You wrote:

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...Sparky was trying to make a point about how people are kept ill by doctors, wars are continued by the industrial/war machine..etc.

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Right, and spiritual seekers are kept feeling inferior by would-be gurus. knows the score all too well.

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Sparky was trying to make a point about how people are kept ill by doctors, wars are continued by the industrial/war machine..etc. and I sorta agreed with that overview. So I was willing to not hear that amazingly irresponsible statement about firemen setting the most fires.

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I recall "Lazaris" saying something to the effect that many fire fighters have a touch of pyromania. But I assumed he meant that they are able to control it by playing it out in their training sessions and real fire fighting.

I was a member of a rural volunteer fire department for a couple of years. I saw two "practice" fires go out of control. One was set on a windy day, the other was a big stack of tires (illegal to burn) set on fire in the middle of a forested area a quarter mile from my home. Yikes. So although I have many issues with "Lazaris", that wasn't one of them.

I'm enjoying your posts Audrey.

Jade

When L said that about "firefighters are really the arsons," I took it to mean that because we create our own reality that they are really the arsons because they "want" to put the fires out...that it wasn't to be taken "literally." Like if you want to be abused then you are the abuser because you create the abuser...

You can't be a firefighter if there aren't any fires and you can't be abused if there isn't an abuser...etc.

Oh God, it's too early and I just got up, I hope I said that clearly enough!

Marilyn

You are just getting up and I'm about to go to bed. I knew a fire fighter who couldn't get a fire going in a wood stove without a flammable fire starter. Maybe some of those fire fighting spirits want to better understand the energy that it represents. Or they need more of that energy for balance in their Being. Maybe the adrenaline rush is like being fired into action.

Hope you have a swell day.

I think it is the "Self Worth/Self Respect" tape that Lazaris outlines the [imo true] concept that everyone is 100% valuable that you cannot loose or gain any value as a spiritual being.

So if the Borelando Gang has managed to find a way to endow Peny with more spiritual value than anyone else, they do so in direct contradiction to what Lazaris says.

I believe that Lazaris is pretty much just a prop for most of them anyway. The real object of their adoration and devotion is none other than Peny Faye herself.

As for Peny Faye, I believe she does harbor some delusions of being just at smidge more important than anyone else on the planet.

Head scratcher huh? But lets not forget there are people who believe they are Napoleon.

I hope they wake up.. I fear that the next stop is buying Nike's and waiting for the comet..

Cheers,

Thanks a bunch...I had a terrific day!!! (once I woke up that is!)

I've been decorating the bedroom of a lady for whom I am case manager and I'm having a ball!!! Her room is painted a most beautiful teal and I've accented with cream, fushia, white, and a burgandy. It's Victorian in atmosphere with satin, lace, feathers..it's just beautiful but I'm not done yet. In fact, I just got home and it's almost 11 PM, so you can see I often put in long days. It's exhilarating and tiring shopping from store to store and today I picked up supplies for a photo album I'm going to decorate...cream satin, cream and burgandy lace..it's breathtaking together and I can't wait to start it let alone finish it! I'm also shopping for some sort of a ceiling light...perhaps a small chandelier, as I can't find any Tiffany types that will do...but I won't "settle" until I find the one that gives me that good tweak in my solar plexis!

I placed a long-stemmed fuschia rose on her bed and pillow sham, which is made of cream polyester and looks like shimmering satin itself...well, I intended it to be like a message of love...but the nurse today said it reminded her of a murder mystery cover!!! So much for my "romantic" notions!!! But I am truly having great fun doing this...the lady is vibrant and passionate which is the reason for the dark teal room to begin with; she is NOT a pastel woman! The satin and lace heart and parasol and flowers are for her gentler side.....

Already it's like entering another world when you go into her room...it has a profoundly soothing ambiance........

I guess I'm feeling like you do when you create your jewelry; if it doesn't "touch" you, then it just doesn't get created!!!

Nite, Jade..,

Love,

Marilyn

I started to write this last night.....

HOLY SHIT... Even the "gang" can't be so stupid as to believe that Peny is "more!!" Wellll, "more" than what though????? More financially well-off? More advanced in and able to teach the art of "nasty, rude, mean, manipulation, betrayal, negative-integrity???" Yeah, they learned well from "Her the More!!!" They should be grateful that she's "more" then. They just keep adding insult to injury of the good that did come from the L Material!!!

Someone told me when I first met "Her the More" that you would know when she entered the room...that she walks with such prominence and stature and "power." Well, at that time she truly was a very lovely woman...she's kind of tall and her hair was shining blond, styled full. (a wig I think) She did stand out in a crowd but then, I was looking for her! She was very well-dressed compared to the rest of us who were more casual...very tanned, in black, gold sandals and painted toe nails. She really was beautiful and her make-up was impeccable. She also warmly welcomed everyone and gave the appearance of being a loving person when we met her after.

Then...when she and L were answering people's written questions from the stage, she got thirsty and snapped her fingers to Michaell for a glass of water... ..I didn't see anything wrong in it because I figured it was planned and that was the only way to get his attention without interrupting L, after all, she was on stage...others, however, thought it was rude. It was after this event with Peny and L that I was told about her liking to stay up all night until others saw that they were in martyr, negative ego, etc.etc......

As far as I know, that was the last time she ever did a time with Lazaris and Peny.

Tonight: March 29...

I'm exhausted, had a great day, and still haven't absorbed that the gang said that!!!
It's incredulous to me that anyone could even hint at it or that someone so evolved as P would allow it!!! so evolved??? Seems to me that "if" someone were here that was more evolved, they'd make sure to encourage us to see for ourselves how wonderful and valuable we are...just because we are...

I think she's either having a breakdown or she's in...oh my God, could this be true?...Negative ego?????

Love,

Marilyn

Sounds like you are having a playful time with colors and textures, and that aha feeling when it all comes together even more wonderfully than planned.
I put a lot of energy into my environment too. And I do have to feel a spontaneous sense of delight when I make my pieces. Otherwise I'd be bored.

A rose for you

Love,
Jade

You said it exactly right...

[[[that aha feeling when it all comes together even more wonderfully than planned.]]] YES!!!

Have a great day, Jade!

Love,

I haven't had a lot of time to post in the past few days, but this thread is a humdinger.

I am going back through little bits and pieces of information that has been sent to me over the past few months, because I know that someone once sent me some quotes, I think from the Compuserve forum in which Peny is being lauded as "one of the most...possible the most enlightened being on the planet". If anyone reading along remebers sending me that, would you help me out here?

I was always "sure" from the beginning that Lazaris was claiming Peny to be more enlightened than the rest of us. Don't you remember the story about how he was attracted to her special light in all the Universe, how she is only here out of love and caring to help the rest of us grow because she has already done her work, and she didn't need to come back into the physical? I thought for sure that was in one of those Con:Sin book Introductions.

Gotta run, but this is a great thread, and I'll keep looking. I'll have more time over the weekend.

Great to see you posting! When we gonna "do lunch"? I'll wear my Goddess Wig and you make damned sure to have a deep tan!

We can pour through Avon catalogues and order up the newest spring shades for our eyes...by the gallon!

Wear your Nikes!!

Love ya,

Have I ever told you how wonderful I think you are?

This decorating project of yours is so representative of your incredibly loving spirit.

Marilyn, I know that room is beautiful, not only because of all the work you did, and things you bought, but because you did it from your big beautiful heart. What a beautiful gift this is, far above and beyond the call of duty!

You are one seriously wonderful babe!

I love you buckets.

You are without a doubt the ICON QUEEN!!!

Yeazz dahhlinkk vee vill do lunch! it will be mahhvelooos.!!
You know, that's so true about the intro to one of the books which mentions something about a glimmer sparkey being L. wuz attracted to...

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eventually more and more peepull will get really pissed off, and hopefull will be burning effigies of those two in the streets of ORLANDO Eastern European Style!! sometime very very soon.!!

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Hey, I'll buy the airline tickets, you bring the matches, ok?

Can I come too? I'll bring the Eastern European Style!

I think I know the post to which you are referring. I don't believe he was a gang member, but except for the most apparent ones, I'm not all that familiar with who fell within that circle or were on-the-periphery-wanna-be's. His post was on the ten threads frying the woman for questioning Jach's decision to no longer hold seminars on the west coast and cancel the remaining ones scheduled at the last minute.

For those still members of the Forum it's "Major Changes in the Workshop Schedule (9) (43 messages)" starting in August 2000, and if there's not at least 43 messages on that thread then some have been deleted/censored. Happens you know.

I know this post well because I was absolutely totally blown away by it. It was a real eye opener for me because Peny had responded to it as well, and it was finally discovering these threads and this last "cherry on the top" portion of it that pushed me to seek out Katie and Ted's website.

Let me give you a paraphrase of what transpired.

The poster started out by writing three or four paragraphs thanking everyone for so "lovingly participating" in this thread (frying this woman), and of course, profusely supporting and congratulating Jach for his "self empowering" decision and expressed he was filled with "tears of joy" for all Jach had given to him and others.

After several paragraphs of this, he turned to Peny, and it was here that he referred to his own narcissism that, as he conveyed, always seemed to get in the way of his seeing Peny's capacity to give and to love. This poster said he felt remorse for the judgments he had privately held about her just so that he could protect his "enormously arrogant ego" and that he was deeply sorry for that.

He did NOT express what those judgments were, but simply that he had had some - as in previously and not any longer.

He went on to say that with his ego now in its "proper place" he now had the humility to admit that she was indeed more than him And went on to state that previously that was only something he had reserved for those such as his Higher Self and Lazaris, that he had no problem with that but not with another human.

The poster went on to celebrate this new realization as a "liberating experience" for him to admit this...but he didn't stop there! He also expressed that this truth extended to many others namely Peny's "Handmaiden" and "Sparrow" - just to name two. And he proceeded to claim that by doing this he was now able to allow the love and wisdom that so many had expressed there in the Forum.

He basically ended his post extolling the virtues of expressing anger in the spiritual way he learned in the forum, and that by disapproving of the method he realized it made him feel better than, and he went on to make self flagellating comments about his martyr and co dependency - with his negative ego, no less.

Well, the next day - (with no responses for over 24 hours - is that unusual? - just an eerie dead silence) - this poster suddenly posts an apology to Peny and everyone else who might have been negatively impacted for including his "processing" (???) on how he previously felt about Peny or anyone else. He stated that it was childish and manipulative and that he could have made his points without including that.

Two other gangsters then piped in and expressed how hurt they were - one was so mad she said all she could do was stare at her computer screen when she tried to write!

Oh, but it gets better

Then some poor good faith person scratches his head and says "huh?" Why the apology? All the first poster said was that he had previously held negative judgments about Peny but he was apologizing for it and owing it all to his narcissism. What was the wrong in that? He didn't see this guy as rude or childish as the gangsters stated he was, or as he confessed he was. In fact, he saw him as vulnerable and "potentially valuable" to others who could identify with him.

Now, understand that the original post never actually expressed any specific criticism about Peny or any gangster, and in fact, mentioned it only in the context of remorse and admitting that they now realized that she, as well as the other gangsters, were actually "more than" the poster - right in the same category as Lazaris and Higher Self…at least in the same room if not same level.

WELL, guess what? The proverbial ax fell right over this person's neck that he so innocently stuck out.

Peny jumps in and asks him how would he like it if someone wrote that they used to think he was a real jerk, a bullshit artist who always tried to make people wrong and looking for trouble or a fight, but they didn't think that way anymore.

(He never said those things about her...why would she pick those descriptions??? Strike a nerve maybe?)

She asked what good does that do and asserted that it was a way to slam another person leaving them with no place to respond.

No place to respond????

That was her position. (Ummm, no mention about the validity or wisdom of seeing her as being "more than")

She asserted the original poster stated what he did out of his own personal agenda and others merely shared the impact of that with him.

The good faith poster didn't see the correlation and stated so.

He had no idea…

The floodgates opened. Numerous posts later and another thread, the 10th and last thread for the Major Forum Changes threads - after much indignation and repeated accusations of manipulation, being childish and self centered himself, as well as deeply arrogant and hostile and attempting to pick a fight with Peny, the good faith poster suddenly saw the light and apologized, apologized, apologized for how his speaking up was all a "big negative ego rampage" on his part. Actually, he apologized twice - the first one wasn't good enough and they certainly let him know and why.

He submitted to the Forum's assertion that this was a sneaky roundabout way of dumping on poor Peny and the Forum, and he apologized for the impact he had on others and dutifully listed his "crimes" that ranged from control, distraction, arrogance, hostility, excusing, blaming, and self centeredness.

Please note, not once did anyone EVER take exception that Peny or any of the gangsters were more than anyone else in the Forum nor was it mentioned or discussed at all. Perhaps this was seen as an obvious truth - like of course there's oxygen on this planet.

What the egregious crime was was that the first poster dared to mention that he had once upon a time - when he was less evolved and totally steeped in narcissism and better than's - held a few negative judgments about Peny. AND that someone had the gall to say what was wrong with expressing that after a mysteriously quiet 24 hours the original poster came back and said "I'm So SOOOOOOOORRY!!!!"

…oh, and by the way, after good faith poster had dutifully apologized and thanked everyone for their beauty, wisdom whatever, only one non gangster person replied with acceptance. No one else, not one person that was so hurt by this negative impact including Peny made any acknowledgement to him. And the threads ended.

So that's my knowledge of the situation. I don't know about Melon who when she read the first post was so angry all she could do was sit and stare at the computer screen, but I do know that when I read this…and after reading the previous 8 onto 9 threads of ripping this woman apart for expressing anything other than congratulatory sentiments to Jach, I know I sat and stared at the screen for a good long time…

And then I found this place.

So, Jeremiah, is that the incident you were talking about? Or are there other posts you were thinking about concerning Peny being "more than"?

Love,
Demian,
DreamSinger

Thanks for the info. This has inspired me to add a new icon for Peny the Hutt.

I don't disagree that Peny is more than most of us. The question is more of what? As she continues to feed on people's self-esteem and convert it to toxic waste, she is becoming "more" everyday.

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His post was on the ten threads frying the woman for questioning Jach's decision to no longer hold seminars on the west coast and cancel the remaining ones scheduled at the last minute.

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I remember these issues very well from the forum. You certainly have a very keen memory for details. I stand in awe!

I have to vent!!

What initially amazed me was the very cavalier and highhanded way in which Jach so arrogantly handled the canceling of the rest of the year's schedule. There was never one word of apology. There was never a hint that this sudden decision would inconvenience his clientele. There was no acknowledgement of any impact that this lack of commitment on his part to fulfill a stated contract had on his business customers. Yes, this is a business, and it certainly is the *only* business that I know of that could get away with such a highhanded slap in the face to his paying customers. There was not a word of regret or understanding that it would inconvenience those who had made plane reservations and could not get refunds. The arrogance of these people is appalling to me!!

Own your impact, Jach!!

I have watched the dynamics of the forum since it first opened its cyber-doors on CompuServe. Call me a very slow learner, but I tried to reconcile the arrogance and the better-thans that were so obviously running the show with what Lazaris was teaching. "Own your impact!" the gang continued to shout from the rooftops. But never did they ever see the impact that they had on the innocent people they shredded. As has been mentioned, souls lie devastated in their wake.

During the course of these years I felt so deeply that there was something so very wrong and kept hoping that things would evolve, heal, and change. I was in hopes that when they moved to their internet site that things would change. They never did.

The dear woman that spoke what was honestly on her mind about being disappointed that Jach would no longer come to California was something that every follower in California was feeling. She was the only one who had the temerity to voice her regret. Thus she paid a very high price.

I am in hopes that Peny and/or Jach will read this and see what a travesty they have made in treating their customers like dirt under their feet. Peny prides herself on being the president of 5 corporations. We know how she treats her employees. We know how she treats her customers. No other business or corporation anywhere in the world would dare treat people the way Peny does... and survive.

I have the feeling that people now are beginning to awaken and thus to take back their power. Last year was the Year of Dominion, according to L. My wish is that may there have been many who chose to step into their dominion and release themselves from the mesmeric stranglehold that they have been in. We've been there, awakened, and now the path is open for others for awakening and healing right here. Many may visit this site and choose not to post. But their reading here certainly can awaken them to what's really going on.

Thanks, Demian! I really had to vent as you reminded us of what had so recently happened.

Crystal

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I am in hopes that Peny and/or Jach will read this and see what a travesty they have made in treating their customers like dirt under their feet.

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I doubt that reading this would make a whit of difference to these inveterate shysters. IMO their "customers" have been deceived, manipulated and exploited since day one. My only hope is that they will cease to have any customers at all.

I have fantacized having a picket line in front of their Orlando hotel.

Love,
Jade

Well, it looks like we now have you, me, Aud, and Karolina! Sounds like a picket line to me. Ted? Anyone else?????

At the very least we could employ Jeremiah to write up our flyers, and I'll bet we could find a cool graphic artist somewhere to do the illustrations for us.

Any media pros out there, we sure need to issue a press release for this one. I'll hand deliver one to the National Enquirer!
They'd have a field day with this one.

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"Big Brown-skinned Blonde Bigamist Bullies and Berates the Beholden on Behalf of Bubble from Beyond"

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It would be a blast to do that wouldn't it?

We'd have to wear wigs, muu muus and caftans for sure!! And think of the posters we could create. Also, let's not forget to get a license to set up our Smilie Crystal table!

I think I'll go start my base tan right now!!!

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I doubt that reading this would make a whit of difference to these inveterate shysters. IMO their "customers" have been deceived, manipulated and exploited since day one. My only hope is that they will cease to have any customers at all.

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You're absolutely right. It wouldn't change their modus operandi one twit. However, I'm very interested in *why* Peny has been conspicuously absent from her own forum since, oh, about the beginning of October. Could it be that she is enjoying the impact of the K&T site? My sources tell me that she's no where to be found and didn't even dip in a verbal toe during all of the political upheaval nor to get everyone excited about the Survivor 2 adventures. Hmmmmm.... one might just wonder... but then, this *is* the Year of Mystery!

BTW, I *love* your icons!!! Oh, to be a cyber-expert!!

Crystal

Yes, thanks that is exactly the incident I was referring to.

I had forgotten the series of events and what struck me as so strange was the fact that they all disputed and attacked various things in this members posts except the part about Peny being "more"

thanks

Let's form a human chain!

You are my prize student.

I will be shipping your diploma as soon as you send in your 999.99 in processing fees. If you mail your check within the next five business days, you will get a "Katie's Chain Gang baseball" cap, and if you pay by Credit Card you will get an official "You Ain't Lived Until You've Locked Arms with Me" T-shirt.

Katie

How about the Ist Annual Con:Sin Survivors Celebration Conference in an adjacent hotel ballroom. We'll carry torches and placards. We'll pay 25 cents a piece for tapes and plastic cases turned in for recyling. And we'll pass out specially charged Survivor Smilie crystals.

Love,
Jade

Adjacent hotel? Surely there must be another room at that same hotel! We must mingle, mingle!!! Don't you think?

I'm there sista!

BTW, Karolina is now an authorized instructor for
Chain Gang Tactics 101

and Advanced Human Chain Guerilla Theory.

I'm sure she'll be announcing her Summer Schedule any day now, so make sure to sign up! These techniques were developed by me during the Summer of Love and are guaranteed to be effective against all forms of mind control, soul rape, and are a powerful repellent against Non-physical entities and their creepy friends.

Katie

Ummmm.......I'm going to school for desktop publishing and multimedia (basicly web design) and I have to take some graphic arts courses , so maybe I can help out. LOL