Before you get the urge to send off an email to me and/or Ted, please consider the following.

We are already quite well aware that there are many who believe in Lazaris.

We have given great consideration to the thought that Concept/Synergy is not Lazaris, and we are quite well aware that those running the organization are human.

This site was created to provide an opportunity to openly dialogue for the benefit of all who have interest in participating either by posting or privately reading along.

Those who have responded by posting have for the most part put a lot of time and energy into it and have shown a tremendous amount of respect, generosity, and courage in doing so, not just for each other, but for everyone who comes here to read.

Unless you have something of significance to say to me and Ted privately, or if you just wish to introduce yourself prior to posting here it seems rather dismissive and rude to write only to us via private email rather than here on the board where everyone can be aware of your thoughts and reactions to what is being discussed here.

It is particularly futile, and I might suggest even childish to write hit and run emails in which Ted and I are being told what we should be giving consideration to, especially when the suggested topic is one which has been thoroughly discussed here already, as we have already demonstrated that we have and continue to consider these issues.

Please respond here out of consideration for everyone who has shared their thoughts and feelings here with you, if you have your own thoughts and feelings to share.

If you don't have the courage to write here, then maybe you should give some thought to why that is, and why you might think that Ted and I are appropriate targets for your angst.

We have received many heartfelt emails from sincere people many of whom did not express agreement with me and Ted. That is fine, and I don't wish to discourage anyone from writing who is moved to share something privately with us.

To date, Ted and I have responded to everyone who has written to us. As of now, I'm stating here that I'm not planning on responding to anyone who has nothing more to tell me than how much they love Lazaris, or to provide a little lecture. We aren't lecturing you, we did not twist your arm and force you to read here. You are free to believe as you wish, and I think it's a shame that you don't recognize that freedom for others, or that you see free thought as some kind of a punishable offense.

The following mail is representative of what I am addressing here:

quote:

---

Hello Katie,

I just would like to say that I read all of your writings in the
"Lazaris, friend or fraud"
My personal experience with Metaphysics started long before I started
studying Lazaris' teachings in 83, prior to that I studied (and still
do) Seth, Edgar Cayce, Ruth Montgomery, Bartholomew, Arthur Ford and a
few other channeled entities....after a while of studying I believe I've
learned to discern who is and who is not a fraud....I just would like to
tell you that I truly believe that Lazaris is not a fraud....On the
other hand I think that J.C.Knigt's Ramtha is.
Anyway I think that just because you encountered some adversities in the
forum, it's very sad if you dismiss Lazaris completely.
Please feel free to reply if you want and if you don't, I'll understand.

Much Love
(name removed)

---

My response:

quote:

---

If you read our entire site you will know that the primary issue is not
> > > whether or not Jach is a fake, or whether we or others encountered some
> > > adversities in the Forum. The main issue is whether or not
> Concept/Synergy
> > > functions within the established model of a destructive mind control
> group.
> > >
> > > I note that you did not address that issue.
> > >
> > > Since there are established definitions for destructive groups, and
> > > identifiable mind control techniques, it does not require speculation to
> > > arrive at the answer to this question, but it does require discernment.

To date, no supporter of C/S, or believer in Lazaris has written and addressed
those issues. Maybe you would like to be the first.

I sincerely hope that you will continue to read on our site and give some close attention to the discussions on mind control and manipulation.

I realize that for someone like you who is a firm believer some of our venting might feel abrasive. I hope you can look beyond our anger and recognize the sense of elation
many of us have in becoming free of a belief system which we now know has
been spiritually and emotionally devastating.

I also wonder if you support the behaviors that are being discussed on
our message board on the part of C/S, or if you feel any sense of personal
responsibility toward those who have and are being directly abused by
Peny et. al. through your continued support of her organization.

Anyway, if you have interest in what is being discussed on our board, it
would be better for you to post it there rather than communicate to me
or Ted privately since we'd prefer to spend what time we have on the
message board rather than in private communications. Ted and I are only two people, a lot of people read and post on the message board, and many of them are
believers in Lazaris, so I'm sure your thoughts are of interest to all, and
I would personally be grateful to see you share them with us all.

Information is power, and that is what we are all seeking, so any information you care to share about your process of discernment, I'm sure will be received with great interest and gratitude.

Thanks for writing.

All the best,

Katie

---

Response:

quote:

---

> Hello Katie,
> >

Thank you for writing. Please take the following in to consideration.
> > Any teacher that empowers the student is good....That is the differece.
> When a
> > "teacher" tries and uses tactics (ususaly fear) to have control over his
> > studens, such as Jim Jones.
> > Also please remember that C/S and the forum is run by humans that are no
> > perfect...All humas are spiritual councsiousness that are going to
> school..We
> > are learning, one of the big lessons is not to be judgemental, but instead
> > evaluate. Granted, Lazaris is not for everybody, but I, and a lot of my
> friends
> > live in eternal gratidude to Lazaris and Concept Synergy...
> >
Much Love always
(name removed)

---

My response:

quote:

---

> I guess I don't understand why you are concerned with what I believe or why
> you would want to try to convince me of anything.
>
> The Cosmic Fool message board is there for you if you are interested in
> debating this topic. All opinions are encouraged and welcomed.
>
> I'm really not interested in receiving private lectures. I hope that is
> not your intention, but it does feel that way. I'm sure you would agree
> that it is condescending and inappropriate to just write and run, but that
> seems to be happening more and more from Friends of Lazaris. I simply don't
> understand the intent behind that, and it is most dehumanizing. It
> certainly doesn't encourage me one bit to change my perspective, it only
> serves to support it.
>
> Why are you writing to me and not on the message board?
>
> All the best,
>
> Katie

---

Response:

quote:

---

Dear Katie,

I did take a look at your message board and it struck me more to be a
springboard for critisism, sinism and sarcasm...and you get that in any ordinary
chat room...But thanks for your offer anyway.
And I can take a hint, so please rest assured that I will no e-mail you anymore.
But just remember that Lazaris is a very good teacher that does empower its
students and the reason I decided to express my feelings to you, is because I
think it is very sad for anyone to cut them selves off from such wonderful
insights...
And one more thing dear Katie, if you reply this e-mail, it's very possible that
I will reply it back to you....
So now I say good bye to you

.....With Love and Peace
(name removed)

---

So, if this is what you have in mind when writing to me and Ted, please don't bother, and if you do, we'll be more than happy to post it here, but you won't get any personal response from me, so you might want to save the step and just post here on your own to begin with.

Thank you for your consideration.

Katie

If you feel like writing, don't hesitate and use an alias if it's more comfortable. I did, too!!!

I hope you read and realize and remember how very much we all loved and trusted Lazaris not even one year ago! This hasn't been an easy time for any of us and as you can see, Lazaris was definitely a HUGE part of our lives.

So, WELCOME if you write and know that it's OK to disagree with what many of us are saying. Just, please, consider and respect the "whys" of what we say...I will do the same for you. It's scary, I know.

Love,

Thank you for your post on this important matter. I support you all the way on this. Certainly no one is required to post here, but if they wish to engage in discussion based on what they read on this board, it would be nice if they engaged in that discussion with those who posted originally rather than putting it all on you.

Also, I think it's respectful to read the wealth of ideas and information here that could address concerns or questions a person might have without expecting either yourself or Ted to give "private consultations". You guys aren't in that business afterall.

It's wonderful to hear the myriad of perspectives here. I learn so much not only from those I agree with, who add a greater depth of understanding to what is unfolding before me, but from those I disagree with who challenge me to critically look at what I'm holding as true.

I also cherish the wonderful support this place affords with the beautiful consciousnesses who post and those who support silently but nevertheless are felt and appreciated.

This board has been a phenomenal experience for me and it's such a gift to know freedom of thought is not only welcomed but actively supported and protected by all who have been posting regularly. This is without a doubt an amazing co-creation and I look forward to connecting with others on this path.

Love,
Demian,
DreamSinger

Thank you both for your support on this issue. As you both know, neither Ted or I have any problems receiving or responding to email, but it's always nice to think there's a point to it, or that the writer actually recognizes our humanity.

There seems to be a little group of people who think they should take a quick swipe at us and run. I suppose they think they are vindicating Lazaris or Peny or something. Kinda like the Christians with the "honk if you love Jesus" bumper stickers. It always makes me wonder if they think they are scoring brownie points with God or something.
Sad to think it might be true.

I've given a lot of thought to the way I've been handling email, and have decided that from now on, unless the mail addresses me from some perpective of understanding, and indicates that a person has something more on their mind than to provide a little lecture on their beliefs spiced up with some implications that there is something wrong with us for not believing the same, I'm just going to post those mails here rather than even ask permission.

So, there it is potential hit and run emailers, you do not have my permission to take a dump on me, and if you do, I will move your pile onto this message board for all the world to read.

Maybe someone here might be moved to respond, but at this moment, I'm not willing to use my time that way.

If your good energy and compassion don't encourage others to write here, I sure don't know what will.

quote:

---

If you feel like writing, don't hesitate and use an alias if it's more comfortable. I did,too!!!

---

Thanks for that reminder. It might make it more comfortable for people to realize that they can use a blind email like hotmail or netscape and no one will know who they are including me and Ted, if anonymity is an issue.

quote:

---

I hope you read and realize and remember how very much we all loved and trusted Lazaris not even one year ago!

---

Yes, how incredibly true, and what a good point to make. It isn't as though we've all been a bunch of bitter critics. Everyone of us here from C/S has spent many many years of faithful devotion.

quote:

---

This hasn't been an easy time for any of us and as you can see, Lazaris was definitely a HUGE part of our lives.

---

No, this isn't an easy time, and we are all in differing degrees of grieving a great loss.

quote:

---

So, WELCOME if you write and know that it's OK to disagree with what many of us are saying. Just, please, consider and respect the "whys" of what we say...I will do
the same for you. It's scary, I know.

---

You're a sweetie Marilyn. Thanks for opening your big heart and expressing such kindness in welcoming and encouraging others to post here.

I join you in extending the welcome.

Thanks for starting this thread, Katie. I was considering doing the same.

I don't think anyone needs to email us to see where we're coming from - it's all right here. It's OK if someone wants to email to introduce themselves prior to posting. Or if someone doesn't want to post, but wants to offer moral support, though it would be nice to post and share the support with the whole group.

Some of the emails indicate that the writer didn't read much on the site, and made judgments anyway. For example, someone wrote that we shouldn't dismiss Lazaris just because we had "a bad experience" in the Forum. Well, if they had read more than a few sentences, they would see that many people had many bad experiences, and that we have discussed at length whether or not that does or should reflect on the authenticity of Lazaris.

We have also discussed at length the many other reasons we have to doubt that Lazaris is real. And we've discussed whether we would be interested in working with them even if they are real. And anyone who wishes to offer evidence that they are real, or that the Gang really are nice people are welcome.

When we receive an email like that we are put in the position of either ignoring the writer's issues or reiterating once again all the writing we have done here. People have been called on the carpet in the Forum for not researching before they post, and that's one area in which I agree with them.

People have written to us with the apparent feeling that we had just dabbled a little with the Lazaris material and, if we would just give it another chance we may learn to appreciate it. Read what we have written!

Then there are the saviors who are so concerned that we are giving up such a wonderful gift just because our poor little feeling were hurt. Listen to what Lazaris says about saviors - sometimes they're right Think about all the born-again Christians who have tried to save your soul - do you need to prove to them that your soul doesn't need saving?

This email that Katie quoted had the person saying that they saw a lot of cynicism on this board (I assume that's what "sinism" was supposed to mean). Nothing can be further from the truth. We are all active in our spiritual growth and we have a lot of faith in Humanity. Anyone reading this site with an open mind could see that. A cynic sees Humanity as inherently evil - a realist sees individuals as behaving in an evil manner. Big difference.

In their criticism of us, they mentioned that they thought we were critical. They also mentioned sarcasm. I guess 2 out of three ain't bad

For those concerned that people may be missing out on all the love and wisdom Lazaris has to offer, I suggest you take it up with Peny. If you've read anything on this site, you'll see that Peny's behavior has been the primary source of doubt. I'm sure she would respond with love and understanding.

As we've said many time, all views are welcome on this board. At the top, right-hand side of most of the pages on the board is a link to register.

Cheers, Ted

Damn, I did it again! I was just finishing up a response to your post, got distracted, and accidentally closed the window!!

I was thanking your for your support and responding to your input.

Well, I'm sure I don't have to tell you what your participation here means to me. Maybe I'll just say that, since your words stand on their own.

I don't want us to get into that kind of "me too" crap which is practiced in the Forum, but it sure is nice to be supported.

Thanks for your kindness, wisdom and generosity. I know how much you care about everyone who reads here, including the lurkers. Your caring does matter very much.

Katie

you wrote:

[[Some of the emails indicate that the writer didn't read much on the site, and made judgments anyway. For example, someone wrote that we shouldn't dismiss Lazaris just because we had "a bad experience" in the Forum. Well, if they had read more than a few sentences, they would see that many people had many bad experiences, and that we have discussed at length whether or not that does or should reflect on the authenticity]] of Lazaris.]]

Yeah, that is frustrating. This goes way beyond a single bad experience or one or two dissonant experiences.

For my own part, I felt some degree of discomfort, disgust or dismay every time I logged onto the forum for about 4 yrs.

I wanted to make it work because I believed in the quality of the material despite the carnage and cult like behavior on the forum.

For some reason it hit critical mass for me when I found your site and read about the way you and Katie really agonized over the abuse you were dealt in the form and the multilevel marketing scam [tradevest]

It was the end of trying for me.

Why that and not any of the other myriad uglinesses I can't really say.

I don't quite get how people could even take a cursory glance at the "friend or fraud" section of the site and conclude that you and Katie had a few bad experience and were rushing to judgement.

If people want to post alternate views about Lazaris or Peny and Jach I wish they would do so.

I think it is interesting that people are not really denying that Jach and Peny have done any of these things.

That is pretty shocking when you think about it.

Anyone who posts here with the intention of being heard would, in my opinion, research what has been said and incorporate that into their writing.

Disagree with it, fine. But to ignore all that has been written just weakens their credibility in my view.

Anyone who comes into a conversation that is ongoing and doesn't avail themselves of what has already been discussed is just asking to be dismissed.

Hi Katie and Ted,

I may be a bit of a bonehead here, but I didn't realize that you were getting that many e-mails basicly lecturing you on what is happening here. I feel so bad for you because I know how time consuming it must be--I get upset when I have about 30 messages in my e-mail box. LOL. I don't get it either-- --why on earth would someone e-mail you and question the way you believe without reading the posts and finding out why you feel that way.

You two are good people and you don't deserve that garbage from the private e-mailers. Anyway, this is just a little note to say how much I appreciate what you two are doing and how brave I think you two are. Thanks.

Vicki

I remember you well from the forum. I used to log in eagerly to read what you had to write.

The last posts involving you were to Jach about reincarnation. He responded to you with two or three indepth posts, which you never answered. It was an exciting interaction and I remember even being happy for Jach, because he seemed to enjoy your interaction, too. I enjoyed them because they were just plain real and Jach didn't usually respond in such depth and interest.

One of forum management wrote a sarcastic post to you asking what your game was and "why" didn't you respond to Jach after Jach took so much care and time to write you back so thoroughly...Chris, did you ever even see that post??? Or any of them???

I'm willing to bet that Jach didn't even know you had been terminated from the forum......and that this "forum management" wrote to you as part of a cover-up.

As far as people not using aliases...I do understand their fear and concerns. If they are forum members, they will be ostracized for writing and the feeling that Lazaris would be offended is just too much to consider. And you know that Peny & Co. would be royally pissed...therefore, these people believe they might lose favor with Lazaris if they so offended them in any way. It really doesn't feel like a free country if you're a forum member and those that aren't have no true idea of the abuse and manipulation that goes on in the forum.

Also, I would hope that if anyone writes they will read first what people are saying here.

Got to go...Later, Chris. It's great to see you here!

Love,

Marilyn

Thanks for your love and support, I send you a big huggg!!

We don't get tons of these emails, only enough that they are annoying.

Until a few weeks ago the only mail we ever got was supportive and encouraging, unless you count the wierd Kimberly/Timothy mail which to date still doesn't add up for me, but even that purported to be supportive.

I don't mind people writing, even if it's to vent anger or something, but let them make it a dialogue at least and addressed to something that has to do with me and Ted personally, and isn't dismissive of everyone else who posts here and what is being said.

Generic lectures should be posted here or better yet not written at all. This is an interactive forum, and Ted and I are not interested in being targets for people too cowardly to even ponder what is written here.

Thanks also for your kind words. I think you know that your family is most special to me so your presence here is a particular delight.

Katie

It's interesting to hear the story of how this site impacted you so thanks for sharing that.

quote:

---

This goes way beyond a single bad experience or one or two dissonant experiences.

---

It sure does. What is evolving here is a picture of a pattern of abuse which has been going on since the Great Entity emerged. Putting all these puzzle pieces together is a very revealing project. Ted and I had only our personal experiences and observations to go on, but as more people come along and provide more insight it is becoming clearer by the minute that there is something really wrong going on here. I believe that we are still far from having the full picture.

quote:

---

For my own part, I felt some degree of discomfort, disgust or dismay every time I logged onto the forum for about 4 yrs.

---

I would also suspect that is true for most Forum members, yet for some, myself included, it became a somewhat obsessive pass time. Maybe we were waiting for the final moment of clarity where we could see through our negative ego fog and recognize the true beauty.

Well, the fog did finally lift though, didn't it? And the true beauty is the view from outside the walls of a sadistic prison.

quote:

---

I wanted to make it work because I believed in the quality of the material despite the
carnage and cult like behavior on the forum.

---

Yes, and it's sad and mystifying to me why we didn't get it that there was actually no unique information of any quality, unless you find value in hearing some new versions of old myths and legends seasoned up with some odd imageries.

Maybe we were all there trying to figure out what was wrong with us that all these powerful, guaranteed to succeed techniques weren't changing our lives in the way they were represented to. The whole forum experience was an exercise in trying to overcome self doubt in my opinion, and all it actually served to do was create more.

quote:

---

For some reason it hit critical mass for me when I found your site and read about the way
you and Katie really agonized over the abuse you were dealt in the form and the multilevel
marketing scam [tradevest]

---

Interesting that you would have to read of our anguish here, that you, or any Forum member who was present during Forum Storm could have missed that, but I suppose that is the power of character assassination. How could a true believer paint us as anything other than the two assholes from Santa Cruz who had thrown our spirituality out the window as Peny stated? It's truly sad how the Forum functions to dehumanize people that way. The same thing happened between me and Jade. I remember her thrashing, and how I easily characterized her in my mind as a frivolous spiritual lightweight. Now I see how phenomenally wrong I was. Sorry Jade. I'm so sorry I allowed myself to ignore your humanity in my quest to make Con:Sin right.

quote:

---

It was the end of trying for me. Why that and not any of the other myriad uglinesses I can't really say.

---

Yeah, I guess each of our camel backs can only take so much straw. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly which straw it is that causes the loud snap. For me the groaning began with the Scott romps, but the big snap came when Peny flat out lied about Ted supporting Scott when the evidence to the contrary was available right there in the Forum, yet very few even noticed, and fewer still were willing to speak up about it. That was the beginning for me of understanding that something was stinking and rotting badly in that Forum, and it wasn't my negative ego.

quote:

---

I don't quite get how people could even take a cursory glance at the "friend or fraud" section of the site and conclude that you and Katie had a few bad experience and were rushing to judgement.

---

I think that is the power of mind control and that those who are still completely under the ether are fully capable of blinding themselves to any information which might shake up their beliefs. Not one of these people has given any indication that they have read anything on this site except criticisms of Peny's appearance and name calling. Just looking for a place to hang their hat I suppose, and not the least bit able or willing to take a look around the room to see what else is here.

quote:

---

If people want to post alternate views about Lazaris or Peny and Jach I wish they would do so.

---

So do I, and I can't tell you how many times I've asked people to do just that. Those who have done so are hit and runners who refuse to stick around and engage in conversation. I guess we are supposed to be blown away by the wisdom and run scampering back into our negative ego mouse holes and nurse our wounds. That's the feeling I get from these mails and posts. Very insulting but worse, just plain childish. I suppose that's what happens though, when you continue to invest in believing one of the biggest babies ever to set foot on this earth is an icon of wisdom and enlightenment.

quote:

---

I think it is interesting that people are not really denying that Jach and Peny have done any of these things.

That is pretty shocking when you think about it.

---

It is shocking. All we get are reasons that it shouldn't matter to us what they do. This from people who claim to be students of a philosophy which alleges to teach responsibility, discrimination, and self-respect? I guess in the final analysis
the proof of the teachings lies in how they manifest in people. Somewhere something else is going on below the surface of the words that is causing this very disturbing blindness and inability to think clearly.

quote:

---

Anyone who comes into a conversation that is ongoing and doesn't avail themselves of what has already been discussed is just asking to be dismissed.

---

Yes they are, but rather than do that, in the future I'll put those mails here for others to read and respond or dismiss at their discretion. I think everyone should have the opportunity to benefit from this questionable but very heartfelt form of "wisdom".

I'm glad you found us Jeremiah, and I very much appreciate the contribution you make here. You have brought some very unique puzzle pieces to the board here.

What do you think we should name this puzzle now that we are getting a clearer picture?

It's starting to look to me like one of those Hieronymous Bosch paintings depicting the chaos and torments of hell.

It's great to see you sticking around and posting! I know it can be a chore sometimes, especially for you hunt and peck typists, but it's so valuable and gratifying to have the benefit of many perspectives.

quote:

---

I don't feel that private emails are appropriate, in fact an alias indicates (in my view) an unwillingness to take responsibility for your words).

---

I don't necessarily agree, I know that there are valid reasons that some post here under aliases, or have in the past. Until we uncover the full scope of the mindset of these Con Artists, I fully support anyone who makes that decision. None of us really know what risks we are taking by publicly criticising these megalomaniacs. Anonymity doesn't necessarily indicate irresponsibility to me, in some cases it is prudent caution.

I also understand that Peny, while busily and obsessively reading here herself, has instructed others to stay away and "not give us any energy". Those who fear her wrath for disobeying have very valid concerns, although it does strike me as odd that they would feel the need to disobey in the first place, while at the same time evidently feeling the need to protect or defend her. More indications of the strange thinking and behavior that is wrought from the Lazaris teachings.

quote:

---

I feel exactly the same way about those that consistantly email the moderators with criticisms but don't have the courage to actually post their words.

---

As a point of clarification, Ted and I are not moderators here. We have chosen not to play that role, but to allow this site to self-moderate. That is another reason that the private email is totally inappropriate.
Ted and I in no way have the desire or need to moderate what is said on this site, other than to make sure that the board operates within the law.

quote:

---

What most on this board are attempting to do (some more succinctly and profoundly than others) is to voice some concerns as to the legitimacy of the Lazaris material and of human element of Concept Synergy.

---

Yes, exactly, and also hopefully to find some support and healing for the woundings most of us experienced through our dealings with that group.

quote:

---

I feel that aliases are unnecessary because we aren't dealing with the mafia here.

---

We don't know that for certain. We know that there is a fear bordering on panic coming from some people, and we know that everything that goes on inside that group is kept as a deep dark secret, that employees are known to mysteriously and completely disappear. There is a true sense of insidiousness and malice which exudes from that group once the surface is scratched. Who really knows how deep it goes, and what is the true source of the fear?

As one who does still very much believe in reality creation, I do feel pretty much immune to the possibilities of being seriously hurt any further by these people.
My Shields are UP!!! (lol) But, each of us picks and chooses our own battle line, and I fully support the decisions on that made by each of us.

quote:

---

we're discussing a myriad of views presented by a possibly non-physical entity as well as the behavior of Forum participants. Nothing can happen to you if you speak your mind, even if you speak it abrasively. Such is your choice and such is your right.

---

We are discussing how many have already been deeply hurt as a result of nothing more than speaking our minds. We have families being torn apart here. This isn't a theoretical discussion about a spiritual philosophy and a casual review of the humans who subscribe to it. We have, most of us, witnessed and fallen prey to some profoundly dangerous behavior.

Also, if we are to believe this non-physical entity, Peny is a woman of enormous power. So, until each of us comes to our own conclusions on that, conclusions which we are prepared to act on, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to provide oneself with some protection.
Personally, I am beyond a disbeliever in Peny's personal power, I am an avowed believer in her complete lack of any signs of it. But, that is me, and my choice to proceed accordingly.

quote:

---

Unless your participating in slanderous speach about the private lives of
Concept Synergy members, you can't be held legally liable for your opinions.

---

There are liabilities beyond the legal. Peny has private information about all of us. Those who have had private readings have shared deeply personal information and we now know that information has been used to manipulate, humiliate, control, and punish people. What boundaries do these people have? Given that we don't know the extent of Con:Sins willingness or desire to inflict pain and hurt, I suggest that it is extremely valid for each of us to clearly establish our own boundaries as to what risks we are willing to take. Again, personally, I stand up and say FUCK YOU ASSHOLES, but that is my personal choice.

quote:

---

I unapologetically use and benefit from the Lazaris material (which the provisions I've stated in previous posts). Most on this board know my views and some my agree (very few who actually post)and some my intensely disagree (many more who do
post).

---

Yes, and I find your perspective on this to be very interesting and well stated. I have not forgotten the unfinished conversation we have going in another thread, and I do intend to follow up on that as soon as time allows.
I do have this shield to keep polished, you see.

quote:

---

Am I a mind numbed cultist? Not bloody likely.

Am I a wounded soul who has been victimized by Concept Synergy? No (though I
have great sympathy for those that feel that they have been).

---

I think that as long as we put negative judgements on the concept of mind control we will never get to an honest place of evaluation as to whether or not we have been.
Your statement implies to me a sense that being a "mind numbed cultist" is an insult.
If you do your cult awareness research, you will find that it is mostly the intelligent and passionate who find their way into mind controlled situations. To me to just discount that as a possibility for yourself is akin to rejecting the concept that you could get cancer from living in a polluted environment because everyone knows only those who don't take care of themselves properly will get cancer. To me, it's foolish and frivolous to discount all the evidence presented here that Jach uses mind control techniques.

quote:

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Do I disagree strongly with some of the tactics used in the Forum? Absolutely.

---

Again, I sense a certain disregard or dismissal of the profound amount of information presented here that the Forum functions in a far more serious way than just a somewhat dysfunctional and sometimes nasty group. I am gratified that you do disagree strongly, but my feelings go far beyond disagreement. I strongly oppose it, and feel a responsibility to continue to examine what those tactics you mention actually are, where they come from, and why they are being used there. These posts on the 84 laws of power are very illustrative of the very real possiliblity that the Forum is deliberately and consciously set up to control and manipulate minds, and worse yet, souls.

quote:

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But do I find the Lazaris material (no matter what its origin) absolutely life affirming? Resoundingly yes!

---

I'm curious to know if you find Lazaris to be a unique source for anything. I guess you have stated that in another thread, come to think of it. I'll discuss that with you further there. As you know, I strongly disagree with this perspective, but to each his own.

I respect all who post here, though there are a few opinions with which I strongly
disagree. However I still have a high opinion of most who seek to share their
perceptions.

quote:

---

What if Concept Synergy "operatives" are reading your posts? Hmm... So what?
What will happen? Will a crystal matrix curse result if you or your real email address is known?

---

Well, if Peny is who Lazaris says she is, why wouldn't she be able to send a crystal matrix curse? I get the sense that this is one of the bits of the Lazaris teachings that you don't believe. Am I correct about that?

quote:

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I feel that most "friends" of Lazaris are very well meaning and are honest seekers of truth and wisdom. I personally feel that the great majority of Forum members never post for a variety of reasons.

---

I absolutely agree. I think the posters here who came from the Lazaris community are proof positive of that.

quote:

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I feel that the antics of those who are negative on the
Forum are in NO WAY representitive of the many who enjoy Lazaris' teachings.

---

I agree that it is great when people stand up and state their views. I find it incredibly revealing that the same people who are foresworn to protect Lazaris, Jach, and Peny from even the tiniest misrepresentation of the Lazaris materials, and to do so to the death do not find it within their realm of responsibility to come here and fix us all right up.

I think that is not because we are too deeply into our negative egos and therefore, either too dangerous, or not worth the effort, I think it is because they are not in control here, and that cowards and bullies don't like to leave their own backyards.

I too, wish they would speak up, we have a lot to say to them and a few questions we'd like answered.

Peny? Jach? Crush? Petunia? Misty? Special K?

The door is open, but do provide us with your true identity. For you guys, my support for anonymity is zero.

Katie

I DO remember your posts in the political threads!!! I used to literally CHEER when I read them!!! (not only me either!)

Love,

I first posted on this site as "Lorca" and I was glad to have an alias while I sorted out a lot of painful and confusing thoughts and feelings. In other words I felt vulnerable and was trying to make sense of things. I also had a business connection with C:S, now severed, that I had to reconsider. When I began feeling more clear and grounded, I started posting with my real name. I would not have posted during that early period using my name or received helpful feedback from posters. And I would have sent Katie even more private emails than I did, and she is overloaded already. Even though not using aliases has a lot of pluses, the same goes for being able to use one.

[Quote}But do I find the Lazaris material (no matter what its origin) absolutely life
affirming? Resoundingly yes![/Quote]

Yeah, but have you really cleared out your negative ego, martyr, nemesis TOO and the self pity, judgement, arrogance etc. and healed your child and adolescent,dark and light shadows while developing a relationship with your inner child, magical child, higher self, soul, anima, animus, inner Magician, the lumuninous numinous, the Goddess, Sirius, the Siriuns, Ancient Ones, Lemurians, Atlantintintinians, Grace and Glamoury and Mattering , fairies, sylphs and salamanders. Not to forget multitudes of past lives and brilliant future selfs. And if you already have "uncompromising success", that's not good enough. A new tape on the Penultimate Uncompromisingly Uncompromised Success will be out soon. I need a nap.

There is truth to some of this, but IMO much of it is an exhaustively unlife affirming approach to growth that keeps a person out of balance and on guard for inner devils with metapysical names -- or Orion.

Two months ago I would have been agreeing with you. But after clearing out 14 years of tapes, videos, books, and weeding "Lazaris" words and terms out of my brain so I can get clear on my own thoughts, I feel lighter, freer and more like myself than I have for years.

I had to look at what rang true for me, and what I accepted as truth just because the "Lazaris" I trusted said it. I had to remember the truths I already had that attracted me to "Lazaris" in the first place. For me the Lazaris Material became a fifty pound pack I was carrying around without being aware of it because Sparky was distracting all four bodies.

For me, dumping this baggage is life affirming.

Sincerely and Love,
Jade

Bravo Katie -

Fine. Why should you and Ted have to do all the bully/coward email public re-posting around here? NOW HEAR THIS: ALL who email ME risk my copying and expos(t)ing their written sneakies RACHT here, on cosmicfool.com.

Depending upon the gravitaus of the email, it may even warrant it's VERY OWN 'bare-ass naked in Calcutta' thread.

It's YOUR First Amendment.

Steve Brooks -- sb6@altavista.com

IMO don't try this with your primary email account, folks. Think of this 'lil technique as a 100% free 'flame' firewall.

www.altavista.com has a feature-packed and *highly* reliable free email service.

(A tip: you needn't give accurate home address, etc. information in free email sign-up (well, for THIS lifetime..) to get it up and working JUST fine. )

Thanks for your post, valuable points.

you wrote:

[[Yes, and it's sad and mystifying to me why we didn't get it that there was actually no unique information of any quality, unless you find value in hearing some new versions of old myths and legends seasoned up with some odd imageries. ]]

True, no unique information of any quality can be found in the exhaustive canon of the Lazaris material.

Whats worse than the lack of originality, or to be less generous, intellectual theft, is the perversion and tainting of whatever is useful and valuable into a manipulative hook for the prospective seeker.

I really do believe that the vast array of complex manifestation and processing techniques actually create a double standard of belief that make it difficult if not impossible to use them for the purpose they are ostensibly offered.

Useful Ideas, truths from other sources that are powerful because they do not place authority onto anyone but ourselves.

What creates the repeat customer for Concept Synergy anyway if not the struggle to regain the authority that was hypnotically swindled out of them in their initial encounters with Jachzaris ?

The conflicting beliefs pull the mind and spirit in two directions.

"You create your own reality, BUT Lazaris creates it better."

Well that doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense doesn't it?

You create your own reality through the beliefs you hold and the feelings and thoughts those beliefs produce. Your desires, imagination and expectation are what shape and mold these beliefs.

All said elsewhere, by others, much more elegantly.

So if you accept that this is how reality works [which I do] then WHY would you need any "techniques" at all???

Change the belief and the reality changes.

Lazaris would say to "focus the change of belief"

But why do you need to focus it?? You know when you believe something and when you don't.

Its like being a little bit pregnant.

Using force to change a belief is domination and these techniques are replete with the use of force.

How you actually do build a belief is an interesting topic and one for its own thread probably, but the point is that no techniques are necessary when you accept that belief creates reality.

"Trust yourself, BUT know you have a psychotic killer running through your consciousness whose only mission is to destroy you...now relax and trust yourself "

Lazaris basically teaches that you cannot trust yourself with your negative ego operational.

Sounds good, fine. BUT. you have to accept the fairytale description of the ego which has as its basis the fact that we were so irresponsible and cruel to this part of ourselves that we betrayed it and it wants to destroy us as a result.

Accepting this premise is the beginning of the end of self trust in my opinion.

Yes, there is truth that all of us carry the potential for darkness, blindness etc but if we demonize this portion of ourselves and project an agenda of revenge onto it we are never, ever IMO, going to be able to understand it or resolve it.

Reality works in harmony and complete balance BUT you have to huff and puff for EXACTLY 33 seconds the same image to bring it into manifestation.

Lazaris is not here to save the planet, we don't need saving BUT the Orions are out destroy mankind.

The list is potentially endless.. and that is why it works, why they have been operating in the flush for almost 30 years.

Anyway, this is way longer than I expected..more in another post later..

Jeremiah

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-24-2001).]

{QUOTEWhat creates the repeat customer for Concept Synergy anyway if not the struggle to regain the authority that was hypnotically swindled out of them in their initial encounters with Jachzaris?[/QUOTE]

Precisely said!!!

quote:

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It's truly sad how the Forum functions to dehumanize people that way. The same thing happened between me and Jade. I remember her thrashing, and how I easily characterized her in my mind as a frivolous spiritual lightweight. Now I see how phenomenally wrong I was. Sorry Jade. I'm so sorry I allowed myself to ignore your humanity in my quest to make Con:Sin right.

---

Thanks Katie. I'm just glad that you, and Ted, snapped out of the "trance" so you could start this site, which in turn helped me to wake up.
Reading through the site gave me a healthier perspective on that yuke experience and "Lazaris." I hadn't connected the dots, even though I felt very uncomfortable about C:S. for several years. Finally doing that was a quantum leap. I feel as if I had hoisted myself part way out of a cess pool, but need a helping hand to get all the way out. Thank you for that.

You wrote:

quote:

---

Ultimately that's the forum's biggest weakness, you cannot differ with those "in the know". I even had a few posts removed before they were read because they were "dangerous".

In other words I was speaking of metaphysical/occult/spiritual thought outside of what Lazaris personally taught. Peny thought that the techniques I was talking about might be misused if I brought them up.

---

I saw this happen to another individual a few months back. He happened to mention teachings outside of what Lazaris taught, and even though he was very, very clear this was not a Lazaris teaching and was rather offering it up for discussion and clarification, a Forum Management person was so offended he said he went straight to Peny and Jach about this and with their permission they removed the offending post because it might mislead others into thinking it was something Lazaris supported.

Now, anyone with half a brain and able to read the post would have known it was not a Lazaris teaching but a different view that the poster said he didn't even believe in, himself, but it seems Forum management, Peny and Jach don't believe forum members have even half a brain.

Oh, and incidentally, this teaching also cast some aspersions onto political figures including and especially the Bush line.

Not only was the post removed, but a disclaimer thread was started and the poster severely chastised making public that he was sent an email stating that if he ever did anything like that again he would be banned!!!!

How dreadful for someone to have the audacity to post something outside of what Lazaris taught for intellectual discourse!!!

What broke my heart was the tone in this member's post. He was truly sincere in his desire to understand. And he was so adamant about how Lazaris was love and how he wanted that love, but he was confused because he was from a conservative background and wanted so desperately to understand how the Forum could sound just like the born-again political and religious background he just escaped.

So he was summarily accused of doing something potentially hurtful to the Forum and publicly humiliated and chastised as if he were a child.

I think it's very obvious there were other agendas rather than just protecting the poor dumb forum members from being confused.

I, also, had a post removed. I only posted a few times. They were all in the Crystal Cave. The first was request for healing for my sister. The other time I posted was the night before I was to sing at the Candlelight Vigil for the Tiananmen Square Massacre in Washington, D.C. last June.

By this time I was already aware that Peny didn't care too much for the democracy movement in China or for the dissidents. I was very careful in how I asked for this support.

I essentially asked for their support, energy and love. I asked for a positive impact on those who attended and those who heard - even if it was just one little step closer to healing in whatever way that meant to each person.

I stated that I had my opinions, but that I wasn't much of a politician. I didn't even like politics but that my music often found itself in political gatherings and social causes. I said what I desired to do there was bring healing and compassion to the solutions other dreamers dream.

I asked for support in helping me to remember what I was there for and I thanked them in advance for their love and energy during this time.

That post was removed along with two supportive replies and after 24 hours of still not finding my post, I finally emailed the webmaster and asked what was going on. I reiterated that I was not asking for support for the cause itself as much as support for healing for every individual hearing my song and help for me to remember that's why I was there.

I felt that was already obvious in my post.

I never received a reply but when I returned to the site the next day the post was there once again.

I guess after discussion they decided my post wasn't too liberal or too pro-democracy after all.

I just wonder how many wonderful posts, how many precious and priceless insights and perspectives have been summarily removed for the crime of "differing from the ones in the 'know'"?

You wrote:

quote:

---

You create your own reality through the beliefs you hold and the feelings and thoughts those beliefs produce. Your desires, imagination and expectation are what shape and mold these beliefs.

All said elsewhere, by others, much more elegantly.

So if you accept that this is how reality works [which I do] then WHY would you need
any "techniques" at all???

Change the belief and the reality changes.

Lazaris would say to "focus the change of belief"

But why do you need to focus it?? You know when you believe something and when you
don't.

---

When I first started on this journey to reclaiming my power, my first view was to realize Peny was seriously not what she was purported to be but still hold Lazaris to be true.

Then I had to face the fact that if Lazaris was real, he had to be held accountable for endorsing such an abusive person such as Peny.

Then I had to tell myself the truth that this entity or Jach had deliberately lied and misled me in at least one seminar, and all the other holes started to appear.

I finally came to the place where I realized in my mind I could no longer believe Lazaris was real. But even though I no longer believed the Lazaris material was "gospel" any longer, I still felt there were lots of valuable information in them.

Now, I'm beginning to question even that.

For one, I take a look at the past 13 years and I'm asking myself just how effective were those techniques? And how often did I really use them and what specific realities did they create?

Well, the most obvious to me, as far as effectiveness of the Lazaris material, seminar and tapes, is seeing the trail of poor choices over these past 13 years born out of a wound that was still carried within me, but glossed over by the delusion of being healed through all those attended seminars, blendings, tapes and meditations.

But what about the specific techniques for programming and processing?

Well, for all the plethora of techniques for reality creating the one that has worked the best for me over these years was just making a choice from a "feeling good about myself" place.

I thought it was a quite curious phenomena. I attributed the synchronicities and magic that sprung from that place to the resonance of the Lazaris material even though I hadn't used his techniques to manifest the reality.

The 33 second technique and a host of others that I had worked with in seminars and off of tapes - none of them seemed to produce any real noticeable results.

BUT there were times when I was in a good clear place, when I would feel a sense of love, a touch of self worth, and I would make a decision...like a stress free knowing of "yes, this is what I want", and some wonderful synchronicity would happen, some little touch of magic.

My favorite tapes were the red series love/self-love "meditation" tapes. They helped to lift me to a place of feeling loved and loving, and from there my choices and decisions really seemed to directly manifest my reality.

But all I had to do - red tape or no - was be in that resonance of love, and without fanfare or effort, make a choice, have a thought about something nice and it was like magic!

I remember Lazaris once saying at a seminar that someday we will love so deeply and purely that all we would have to do is decide, make a choice and it would happen, but until then we would need to use techniques. He said Love was the greatest technique of all.

Now, I've got problems to deal with, and I've got more than a few dysfunctional patterns to unpattern in my life, and I think it will be a while before I reach that "Love so Purely and Cleanly State", but even with all my stuff, you know, it was never the Lazaris programming techniques that brought in the magic...it was the love I felt.

Not this super kind of love Lazaris was talking about, this one day we'll love so deeply and cleanly kind of love, but the "I love good enough" kind of love.

It was those effortless moments, when I wasn't fighting myself when I could allow myself to just be, to hold a truce with my inner battles, that had the greatest positive reality creating effects in my world.

Yeah, I spent time visualizing - most often in daydreams or just loving what I was thinking and coming up with in playing with the future, but none of this carefully constructed programming techniques.

As for processing, well, Lazaris always had lots and lots of ways to process stuff. But the most effective one I used...put down in favor of Lazaris techniques picked up again periodically, because it was so helpful, was Julia Cameron's (from the Artist's Way) suggestion for "morning pages."

Which for me I called "enema pages" because I didn't necessarily write them in the morning but I sure used them to cleanse myself out!

Julia Cameron suggests you write three full pages of spontaneous unedited thoughts first thing every morning. I found that the first page, sometimes the second and if I hadn't written for a while, even the third page, would be filled with lots of nasty, nasty thoughts.

But what I discovered is that, more often than not, after the initial cleansing of negative thoughts and emotions, phenomenal insights and understanding would spontaneously flow onto the page. And my whole energy would be wondrously lighter and more empowered.

Those two are the most powerful techniques I use...and they don't belong to Lazaris. Being/knowing and from that place choosing...no huffing and puffing 33 seconds, but just a thought or a daydream or an idea that would bring a smile to my face for programming.

And spontaneous unedited writing for processing.

I think you're right, Jeremiah, the treasure chest filled with wonderful and valuable techniques for reality creation is actually filled with a lot of lead nickels sprayed with a thin layer of gold.

I'm going to go find my "the Artist's Way" book again. Spirituality is a creative path anyway, and you know, I think I want to take back the artist brush from those who would have me paint by numbers.

Love,
Demian,
DreamSinger

aka Seeker

Thanks for your thoughts, well said!!!

You said:
quote:
_____________________________________________
no huffing and puffing 33 seconds, but just a thought or a daydream or an idea that would bring a smile to my face for programming
_____________________________________________

Yes, no huffing and puffing, so many of the techniques involved so much work. It got to the point where I felt its not suppose to be this hard.

I also got to where I began to think that "Lazaris" was having more fun that I was with the process.

Have you ever been around someone who you realize are so self absorbed in their own process and mental gymnastics that you might as well not be there. Well, there were times at a evening or weekend that I felt that "Lazaris" was having too much fun listening to themselves and their dissertation.

Well no more huffing and puffing... to have a reality just some effort not struggle.

Be Well,

Eagles Speak

quote:

---

Have you ever been around someone who you realize are so self absorbed in their
own process and mental gymnastics that you might as well not be there. Well, there
were times at a evening or weekend that I felt that "Lazaris" was having too much
fun listening to themselves and their dissertation.

---

Wow, yes, this is an interesting perspective.
Maybe what you are describing is Jach being
"eaten alive by his own negative ego".

God, what a thought, that Jach is just sitting up there having a blastilious time admiring himself and his cleverness for coming up with all this "visionary" material.

I guess that's what happens when a person completely insulates themselves from even the slightest possibility of critical feedback.

Oh, isn't it wonderful what those millions can buy! It makes you realize the true price of ill gotten gains.

Katie