I received an email form someone who isn't reall happy with our website. He gave me permission to post. He didn't explicitly provide permission to use his name, so I'll leave that to him, if he cares to respond here.

This email was addressed to "Dear Vollmer" - I guess I lost my right to be addressed by my first name or by Mister Vollmer due to the state of my ego

Here it is:

Two days ago a friend of mine informed me of your website. I must admit, I was astounded at first that a webpage such as yours would exist, but I decided to look for myself. After having read every word - and more than half of it twice - I cannot help but believe that the real damage done is by YOU and KATIE and others like you. I hope you are brave enough to read on.

You attempt to show how messed up is the Lazaris Team, Concept:Synergy, Jach, Peny, Michael, and so on, but a real HONEST-TO-GOD COLD-SHOWER LOOK would clearly reveal to anyone who has eyes to see what is really written between the lines, is that you have nothing more than a pathetic complaint about
something that you feel SHOULD be different than from what it is. And whether you can own it or not - and it appears that you certainly can't - you (both) have personality clashes to work through - if you are evolved
enough of course.

Isn't it interesting how you are doing your damnedest to try and get people to think of Lazaris as some sort of manical, cult-like false personality, and yet you ignore decades of unique, gentle, and loving information. You ignore the TRUTH about Lazaris. You look away from the TRUTH and you look away from your own CONSCIENCE, and in doing so you have abandoned to absolute ruin your INTEGRITY - or what was left of it.

My work-partner and I are in the fields Counseling and Communications and have been using Lazaris' Teachings for almost 15 years to date. So very many times we have witnessed people's lives change for the
better. Whole families have been helped as we gently introduced some of Lazaris' principles into our Family Systems Therapy. These hurting souls didn't care where the information came from - people in crisis aren't interested in that - they are only interested and reaching out for something that WORKS - AND LAZARS' CONCEPTS AND IDEAS WORK.

I truly wonder; do you ACTUALLY, FACTUALLY, and AUTHENTICALLY have the good of others in
mind when you write, set up, and maintain a website like yours???? And putting all my Counselling Skills aside momentarily, let me ask you this in a language you may be more familiar with, "Do you REALLY give a fuck about other people, do you REALLY give a damn about what could be of long-term benefit to others?"

If, for a brief 5 minutes or so, you could put aside all your BULLSHIT and find the BALLS to listen to some of Lazaris' Talks without getting caught up in the idea that Jach could be faking it - simply listening to the information and being honest with yourself about the value of it - you may discover TRUTH there. No one, notice, is telling you to make a Guru of Lazaris, Jach, or anybody else for that matter. Simply have the AUTHENTIC COURAGE to give it a listen objectively and then ask yourself this question; "Would this information help someone?" If you cannot find a YES answer to that question, then you are a Liar. I know
that the Lazaris Information has saved lives, careers, family relationships, and marriages/partnerships. I, and others in my field, have seen this occur first hand - what do you say about that? Will you tell others that? I doubt it.

My feeling is that you need to do some serious self-analysis before you are grown-up enough to forget about people's personalities and discover the beauty in what they teach. I short, who gives a shit if Jach is the biggest fake/hoax on the planet if what is coming from him is helping multitudes - and you can be sure that IT IS. Additionally, who gives a shit if Jach - or anyone else associated with Concept:Synergy - behaves as a big fat hypocrite if what comes from him/them saves Love, Relationships, and Lives - and it has. Again, I've seen it. How can you NOT see the good??!! What is it that you look for and try to find? Are you into
gutter-journalistic tactics like many others of you apparent ilk?

Have you ever thought that the information coming from Lazaris - or Jach - who cares? - is among the most succint and psychologically sound of our day? - perhaps in history? What have you read or studied that was more enlightened? I bet you can't find anything! Even all the "holy" books don't have the theme of Unconditional Love and Acceptance as Lazaris teaches!! And if you really wanted to look at it, Lazaris is more kind and patient than all the gods combined. How peculiar that a "fake" as you put it, has the ability to show the gods how to do their job more elegantly. Are we to assume that Jach, a mortal, has got cutting-edge information that he somehow invented or concocted in his spare time (if he has any) which puts the gods at shame. How come God, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, Zoroaster, Baha'u'llah, Moses, Sai Baba, Babaji, add infinitum, didn't come up with the goods like Lazaris/Jach has? What answers do you have for this that are HONEST?

In the Law Courts, you would be found as the Fraud, not Jach. You and Katie would be deemed as perjurors - you know - Liars. And whether you want to own it or not, you are both lying about your motives. Notice I
DID NOT SAY that you were lying about your experiences with certain individuals. You may indeed had your PERSONALITY DEFFERENCES as do we all from time to time. But you ARE LYING about how you see the Lazaris Information. Again, WHO GIVES A DAMN WHERE THE INFORMATION COMES FROM IF IT HELPS PEOPLE LIVE HAPPIER LIVES???!!!!

Do you eat? Do you wonder what the Farmer is like who produced the food which nourishes you? Of course you don't! So what's that REAL DIFFERENCE with Jach?? Who gives a shit how he conducts his life if what he produces nourishes people - and you and I BOTH KNOW that it does. Did you get that? YOU
KNOW IT HELPS PEOPLE - YOU KNOW!!!

My suggestion to you would be to listen to a Tape-Set by Lazaris called "THE POWER OF DOMINION", you will absolutely benefit if you simply listen to the INFORMATION - forget about who is delivering it - IT DOESN'T MATTER!! Do you stop to check out the Mail-Man before you read your mail?? Of course you don't, but why don't you!!?? Because it doesn't mattter who is delivering the mail - what's important is that you read the mail/message. You don't think like this do you; "I don't like the Mail-Man, he's a Fake, so I'm not gonna read the mail" (?) Even you ought to find that humorous - but that appears to be the mentality you and Katie have around the Lazaris Material. YOU MAY NEED TO DISCOVER WHAT REALLY MATTERS - HELP OR HINDRANCE - AND NOTICE WHICH OF THOSE 2 CATAGORIES YOU FACTUALLY HAVE PLACED YOURSELF INTO.

One day Jach will no longer be with us. What will he be remembered for? One day Lazaris will not be with us. What will he be remembered for? One day you and Katie will no longer be with us. What will you two
be remembered for? Maybe it's time to let go of your grievances and promote UNCONDITIONAL LOVE - and why don't you see if you can do it better than Lazaris. It's easy to put shit on someone, but can you do it, or do it better?

If you could come up with some Therapeutic Information that would help people heal so many of their psychological scars, I'd be more than happy to use it and distribute it among my collegues and give you full
credit. My E-mail is: crimson_feather@hotmail.com

In closing, for what little it may be worth to you, my partner and I think that the name of your webpage is very revealing about your current psychological environment, i.e., Cosmic Fools - and I would add that if you
continue in your denials (obvious to anyone who has worked in Behavioural Therapies), you will be able to add your own Cowardice to the title e.g., COSMIC COWARDLY FOOLS.

Feel free to add this to your website notice board - that'll test your Integrity.
Feel free to respond to me too - I'd look forward to it!!
------------------------------------

BTW, this guy's got a whole string of initials behind his name (Dip. Coun., Dip. Alt. Ther., M.A.C.A.), so he must know what he's talking about.

Cheers, Ted

[This message has been edited by TedV (edited 02-15-2001).]

If you had read the website, as you claimed, you would have seen that Katie and I did listen to many tapes for 12 year (not 5 minutes) while believing that Lazaris was who they said they were, including the Power of Dominion, which is exactly what we are practicing here.

You wrote: "If you cannot find a YES answer to that question, then you are a Liar."

So, anyone who disagrees with you is a liar? And you have the audacity to counsel people? Do you judge your clients as cavalierly as you judge us?

You wrote: "What have you read or studied that was more enlightened?"

Actually, quite a bit. The prime example being Paramahansa Yogananda.

You wrote: "How peculiar that a "fake" as you put it, has the ability to show the gods how to do their job more elegantly."

Huh?

You wrote: "You and Katie would be deemed as perjurors - you know - Liars."

Please give an example of one lie we have told.

You wrote: "Again, WHO GIVES A DAMN WHERE THE INFORMATION COMES FROM IF IT HELPS PEOPLE LIVE HAPPIER LIVES???!!!!"

I seem to remember "Lazaris" saying that the ends don't justify the mean. If you don't mind being lied to, then why do you make such a stink over your allegation that Katie and I are lying?

So anyway, Angry Emailer, here we are. Do you wish to continue this conversation openly? I'm anxiously awaiting your reply.

If I never hear from this clown again I'll be quite content.

Too bad you weren't able to show all the caps, underlines, bolds and wild emphases.

Jeeeeezuuuussss, help us all if this guy is a counsellor.

If this is method of communication is representative of what you have learned from Lazaris.........I rest my case.

All the best,

It is not clear to me what you are defending here or attempting to protect.

Is it Lazaris' ownership of the concepts that he has taught of the years?

Is it the notion that Jach and Peny's conduct in the name of Lazaris should be excused no matter how grievous or dehumanizing ?

you wrote:

[[I short, who gives a shit if Jach is the biggest fake/hoax on the planet if what is coming from him is helping multitudes - and you can be sure that IT IS. Additionally, who gives a shit if Jach - or anyone else associated with Concept:Synergy - behaves as a big fat hypocrite if what comes from him/them saves Love, Relationships, and Lives - and it has. Again, I've seen it. How can you NOT see the good??!! What is it that you look for and try to find? Are you into
gutter-journalistic tactics like many others of you apparent ilk?]]

Who gives a shit if Lazaris and those associated with his company are fakes?

I do, for one.

I am not the least bit intimidated by your vehemence or you intensity.

If your thesis is the material is great and that ameliorates any destruction done on behalf of its marketers, that is your view. There are other points of veiw. All points of view have their consequences.

Why the need for the broadsword and shield?

It appears you do not dispute any of the things said here about the conduct of Concept Synergy and its officers. I am guessing from the points you made you find these things irrelevant.

To visit your analogy about the mailman for a moment:

you wrote:

[[Do you stop to check out the Mail-Man before you read your mail?? Of course you don't, but why don't you!!?? Because it doesn't mattter who is delivering the mail - what's important is that you read the mail/message]]

If the mailman were opening the mail, changing or altering its contents, using information he gained from the mail in unethical ways and THEN delivering it then the answer to your question is yes, I care who the mailman is.

So what I take from your letter is that you are not about to defend Jach and Peny or Concept Synergy. Fine.

Your concern then is what?

That this message board, humble as it is, could somehow dissuade the planet from heeding the most enlightened teachings on the planet?

Not a chance.

The truth needs no defense. The teachings will withstand any criticism if they are viable and nothing said here can damage it.

you wrote:

[[These hurting souls didn't care where the information came from - people in crisis aren't interested in that - they are only interested and reaching out for something that WORKS ]]

It really does sound as though you are employing an "ends justify the means" philosophy here, which is fine, if that is your philosophy.

You must know, however that it is in direct contradiction with the Lazaris material. It demonstrates that you haven't apprehended the core theories outlined in the tape "The Power of Dominion" that you recommended Ted listen to.

If your goal as a therapist is to provide anything that works for "desperate hurting people" then why not give them drugs? they work?

Well the answer is obvious, they work and they also do more damage than they correct.

Many of the interpersonal strategies outlined in the Lazaris material can also be found in the work of Eric Berne [Transactional Analysis] and in the work of Virginia Satir among many others.

And yes these strategies do work.

If it doesn't matter who came up with them then why do you invest such energy in defending an irrelevant source?

In other words if the source doesn't matter why have you gone to such lengths to defend it?

Let the material stand on it own, if it is what you claim, it needs no defense.

I stand in awe of your patience and wisdom.

I got lost somewhere around "Dear Vollmer"
and then drowned in the sea of emboldened caps.

Somewhere along the line I started zoning out when people started screaming at me.

Thank you for enduring through and responding to the points made. I missed them in all the din.

Every post here is worthy of consideration, I thank you for providing that.

quote:

---

I stand in awe of your patience and wisdom.

---

Me too.

As if "Lazaris" is THE panacea, for "desperate hurting people"-- and the world. Sounds like Crimson Feather needs to expand his reading material. Also there are a LOT of "desperate hurting people" people who would look at Con:Sin as a metaphysical play ground primarily for well-to-do white people.

Love,
Jade

It's hard for me to believe that you really read through this web site. I think you were so busy "reading in between the lines" that you missed what this site is about.

quote:

---

My suggestion to you would be to listen to a Tape-Set by Lazaris called "THE POWER OF DOMINION", you will absolutely benefit if you simply listen to the INFORMATION - forget about who is delivering it - IT DOESN'T MATTER!!

---

I was involved with the Lazaris Material for 14 years. I listened to that tape many times. But when I saw and experienced that what Peny, Jach and their posters practice on the forum is hard-core DOMINATION, I had to wonder if they ever listened to the tape. Frankly I think they scripted it for their ghost.

It matters whether or not Jach is faking Lazais. Seems like you've got credentials up the kazoo, so what do you think of uncredentialed Jach getting into people's most intimate feelings and problems in private consultations?

Your email has a tone of thunderous domination. I think you should take your own advice. You listen to the tape. I'm more interested in spiritual teachings where the behavior of its leaders doesn't conflict with what is taught.

Sincerely,
Jade

You wrote

quote:

---

Whole families have been helped as we gently introduced some of Lazaris' principles into our Family Systems Therapy. These hurting souls didn't care where the information came from - people in crisis aren't interested in that - they are only interested and reaching out for something that WORKS - AND LAZARS' CONCEPTS AND IDEAS WORK.

[QUOTE]WHO GIVES A DAMN WHERE THE INFORMATION COMES FROM IF IT HELPS PEOPLE LIVE HAPPIER LIVES???!!!!

---

I do, asshole. I'm an incest victim, one of those "hurting souls" that you so obviously condesendingly treat by making the decision that it's not necessary for them to know the truth.

So tell me, in gently introducing the Lazaris principals, did you introduce Lazaris, King Arthur, Lemuria and Atlantis? Were there blendings, "guided meditations" by Lazaris, himself, that are really hypnosis sessions? Do you use hypnotherapy sessions and take the time to assure your clients it's not hypnosis at all but merely guided meditations...for their own good...because they don't really need to know...because the ends justify the means?

I have no doubt the principals of healing are helpful - but I doubt you can call them "Lazaris" principals, because the psychological techniques in his material are not exclusively his.

I, unfortunately, did not have a paternal counselor, such as yourself to separate the techniques from the entity, and I, for 13 years thought that was to my advantage. It wasn't. How proud I was that "all the healing" I had done over these years was exclusively through Lazaris, through seminars, tapes, blendings and meditations.

Except, "all the healing" really wasn't quite as much as I had thought and had involved quite a bit of hiding my head up my spiritual mapmaker butt when I could have been working with an ethical counselor - not a patronizing or condescending one - who could offer me some valuable feedback. But what did I need with a real human counselor when I had the "best" in Lazaris?

Lazaris who was there to help, who was there to talk about healing the child - hell, who would wrap my child in his light and heal her, who would never ask me to trust him but always give me reasons to to repair the trust that was so brutally taken from me? Do I care if Lazaris was real? You damn right I do.

Without a doubt I had benefited from the Lazaris material, AND without a doubt the misrepresentation, lies and abuse of trust hurts me as deeply as any betrayal I've ever experienced. I'm not alone in this. There's a lot of pain expressed on this message board that only touches the surface of what many of us feel.

Does that mean anything to you? It does to me.

You say

quote:

---

Lazaris is more kind and patient than all the gods combined.

---

Is it kind to lie? Is it kind to endorse someone who obviously needs the service you, as a counselor provides, setting up countless others to be abused?

And patient? With who? The people who get skewered in the Forum, beaten up in the cruelest fashion, or Peny and the gangsters who keep doing it? Oh, yeah, we're all grateful for that positive side of Lazaris.

Does it matter to me that Lazaris might be fake? Hell yeah. And if you saw me as a human being deserving of being treated with respect and integrity like your own healthy self and your esteemed colleague then you might not be so puzzled as to the existence of this board, and why it might be important to myself and others like me.

quote:

---

No one, notice, is telling you to make a Guru of Lazaris, Jach, or anybody else for that matter.

---

No, but you are. Christ, you not only make Lazaris a god but place him above all gods!

When someone comes to you hurting or devestated because of a betrayal, I hope you don't tell your client that no one told them to make the one who lied, abused, manipulated or otherwise hurt them a guru - so stop complaining.

We aren't talking worship here - we are talking trustworthiness, character, and integrity - all of which seem to be severely lacking in Jach and Peny and company.

We're dealing with trust that many of us are beginning to believe and see was given under false pretenses and broken - the pain that was inflicted and accepted because of a trust that was given and never should have been.

Well, we are taking back our power. Interesting in doing that you should perceive us as expecting Jach or Lazaris to be a guru, and in defending them you talk about them with the reverence and zeal of a proselyte.

I get the impression you read the web site, Lazaris: Friend or Fraud, more so than the posts on this message board. If you haven't read these posts, the experiences of all these people, I invite you to...I dare you to.

If you have, then I ask you to consider that perhaps what you are most upset about isn't the possibility that the welfare of your clients might be threatened by the message on this website and discussion board, but your most cherished beliefs about Lazaris and what that might mean about you.

Instead of hurling judgements against Katie and Ted and "the others like them" you might want to try using your capacity to discern towards yourself.

Demian,
DreamSinger

I'm so glad you divested yourself of your considerable skills as a clinician *after* applying the diagnostic dexterity of Lucy Van Pelt to Ted and Katie in the following manner:

[If you cannot find a YES answer to that question, then you are a Liar.]

Golly, they're not just liars, but liars with a capital "L": is that a psychological condition that differs from just being plain old liars? (Please feel free to not put aside all your counseling skills when responding.)

Mr EMailer wrote:

[Additionally, who gives a shit if Jach - or anyone else associated with Concept:Synergy - behaves as a big fat hypocrite if what comes from him/them saves Love, Relationships, and Lives - and it has. Again, I've seen it. How can you NOT see the good??!!]

If you truly are a member of a helping profession then you know that hypocrisy, lying and emotional fraudulence are never good, period.

Mr EMailer wrote:

[How come God, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, Zoroaster, Baha'u'llah,

Wah, you forgot Rudolph!

Mr EMailer wrote:

[In the Law Courts, you would be found as the Fraud, not Jach.]

I must say, I love the relentless capping in this guy's email; it's so huffily Victorian in tone.

I'm going to play too!

Mr EMailer wrote:

[You and Katie would be deemed as perjurors - you know - Liars.]

Indeed, sir, they Would Not--and what's more, in defense of Their Good Name, I Demand that you Meet me at Magick Time for a duel between our Balls Of Light! (Although I suspect you'll just bring Your Inner Child instead.)

Mr EMailer wrote:

[You may indeed had your PERSONALITY DEFFERENCES

ARE LYING

WHO GIVES A DAMN WHERE THE INFORMATION COMES FROM IF IT HELPS PEOPLE LIVE HAPPIER LIVES???!!!!]

Whoa, dude, you could warn a chick or something when you're gonna move to full caps--SCREAMING ON THE NET ISN'T NICE.

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[So what's that REAL DIFFERENCE with Jach?? Who gives a shit how he conducts his life if what he produces nourishes people - and you and I BOTH KNOW that it does. Did you get that?]

The reason the integrity of the people at Con:Syn matters is because their very hypocrisy, if revealed, would bring a shred of hesitation to those who consume the Lazaris product without question.

Instead of assuming that *everything* Lazaris says is valid and worthy, people might just stop and pick their way through the material, view it with a discerning (not uncritical) eye and *then* decide what is (as you so pithily put it to "Dear Vollmer") ACTUALLY, FACTUALLY AND AUTHENTICALLY valuable to them individually.

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[One day Jach will no longer be with us.]

Somebody's got a secret! (Tell! Tell! Is it the Orions?)

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[One day you and Katie will no longer be with us. What will you two
be remembered for?]

Having the guts to keep talking in the face of endless attacks, among other things.

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[It's easy to put shit on someone,]

Well, I've never thought that piling fecal matter on someone would be all that "easy" myself, but perhaps you have personal experience with such matters and in that case, I'll defer to your greater knowledge.

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[If you could come up with some Therapeutic Information that would help people heal so many of their psychological scars, I'd be more than happy to use it ]

Here's my suggestion, then; find a new line of work--that should help heal many a scarred soul.

BTW, I've got a great personal growth tape you should listen to; it's called "THE POWER OF DOMINATRIX" (oh, wait, I'm thinking of a porn film--sorry, my bad.)

Mr EMailer wrote:

[and distribute it among my collegues and give you full
credit.]

I'm not actually *in* the film, but thanks anyway!

Mr. EMailer wrote:

[crimson_feather@hotmail.com]

hey, hey, hey, wait a second--crimson feather is the screen name of the guy who plays the giant dildo in DOMINATRIX!

floruit
~doubts this guy is for real

Let me tell you something--I don't treat people with contempt, and I don't take away people's self-esteem. I don't go out and try to pretend that I am a perfect person who is always right--the way Peny and Jach do.

They treat people with contempt when they are e-mailing jokes about them amongst "select" forum members. There is no respect or thought for who the person is being joked about-- how they would be hurt or humiliated if these "jokes" were discovered, how it would damage the self-esteem and growth of that person. That is contemptible behaviour from people who are supposed to be bringing us this wonderful teacher. If you're going to talk the talk, then you should walk the walk.

And Doctor, (I'm assuming that you're a doctor by what you said in your post) are you really sure that you aren't the subject of any of those posts? The only way you can be sure is if you aren't a member of the forum, which of course would void this question.

I don't erode a person's self-esteem by talking down to them in a condescending manner in a forum of their "peers". If you don't agree with them, that's fine, but do you have to dog them for EVERY LITTLE THING?? And then when someone apologizes because of something that they honestly didn't know--
tell them that they are in negative ego and should own up to it? This happened--to several people--and it is WRONG!! Jach and Peny seem to only want what THEY want. They don't CARE about how their actions or words hurt and devastate people because they are too selfish to care. Because of the way that they are--and Jach lets it be known that he supposedly works with the Lazaris material--why should ANYONE trust anything that Lazaris says? Because the techniques work? Keep reading this board and you'll find a lot of information about where many of these techniques began.

A lot of people have already said so much to you so I'm just going to ask you to please read more than one thread. Please read what people have experienced first hand before you come in here and judge them. It is so rude and ignorant of you to post in such a manner without doing that.

Peace.

I find it fascinating that with the string of credentials behind your name (and REALLY, who gives a SHIT if they're real or not? Maybe, say...YOUR CLIENTS????)...you are not aware of the unhealthy aspect of creating a deity image out of someone who is a mere mortal!

While I, who only skim my copies of "Dummies Guide to Mental Health" and "Psychology for Idiots," realize that IDOLIZING someone who DEPENDS on your DESPERATE PATRONAGE for the INCOME they want to expand their life with...SMACKS of opening the gates for any number of unhealthy and abusive situations to evolve.

And Mr. P, really now, MANY such unbalanced co-dependencies CAN and DO degenerate into sado-masochistic, ego (or whatever) f*cking playground games of DOMINATION and MARTYRHOOD, don't they????

Well, imagine this nasty playground game on a massive scale, and if you are capable of being totally HONEST with YOURSELF, you'll better understand why there are shell-shocked people wandering around the Internet looking for a place to bleed, cry, process, understand, bond, heal.

And you'll understand why most of us here disagree with your assessment of Ted and Katie. For many of us they have been the kind, beautiful beacons of light who are facilitating THIS part of our spiritual, mental, psychological journey toward our fully realized selves.

Much Joy!!
Karolina

What an interesting post here of yours. I would love to give you a challenge to take this conversation up with me. , You see, I dont know Jach, Lazaris, Peny or concept:synergy. I do know what cults are, and how they work.

So, we could talk from a totally different perspective here. You dont need to be mad at me for anything to do with Lazaris, I truely dont know about that.

We could talk from the perspective of wether or not concept:synergy in its current form causes emotional, mental and spiritual harm to humans.

It would be an interesting conversation dont you think?

A little bit about my background here. I dont have any degrees. I work as a computer technician in the silicon valley. I left a cult which I lived with for 5 years, and I have been out close to 6 years now.

During this time I have done extensive research on what cults are, and how they operate.

Would you like to dialogue with me about this topic?

If you do, I would suggest that we both are able to provide material to the other person about why we have the opinions we have.

You can give me, and expect me to read anything to do with Lazaris, the goodness of his techniques, or whatever else you want.

I on the other hand will most likely expect you to read information about how cults work, what they are, and what the likenesses or differences are between your group and other cults. If during the conversation you prefer to talk to a degreed mental health professional in the cult watching fields I can recommend several who can help you honestly evaluate whether or not your experience fits the bill.

I would quite likely also at times refer you to specific posts on these boards from people and hope you would read them for us to discuss.

In the end, who knows.. You might be right, and I might be wrong about your specific group . I am more than willing to take that into consideration.

I am sure I would learn a lot from you, about Lazaris, and about why you think his techniques are such a strong asset to your mental health expertize, as you said no matter where the information comes from I would look forward to that understanding.

On the other hand I have to admit that my experience tells me many mental health professionals unfortunately have something to learn about what destructive cult groups are, and how they work, maybe I can add a little knowledge for you about this topic. I sure would hope so .

Crimson Feather said: My work-partner and I are in the fields Counseling and Communications and have been using Lazaris' Teachings for almost 15 years to date.

Interesting. If we are going to have this dialogue I would love to hear more about your counseling background. Just so that I understand which theories you work the most from. I am sure that will give me a better understanding of how you relate to the Lazaris material.

Crimson Feather said: So very many times we have witnessed people's lives change for the
better. Whole families have been helped as we gently introduced some of Lazaris' principles into our Family Systems Therapy.

You know, I truely believe that is true. I completely understand how something like the Lazaris knowledge can have huge, complex and lasting effects in peoples lives. I will not dispute that there is plenty of good there.

Crimson Feather said: AND LAZARS' CONCEPTS AND IDEAS WORK.

That is great. Congrats on finding something to better be able to help you and others. I dont know the concepts, ideas and techniques coming from Lazaris, so of course I cant talk for them. I am more than happy to believe your words on this, atleast until I begin to have a better understanding of the material.

Crimson Feather said: field, have seen this occur first hand - what do you say about that? Will you tell others that? I doubt it.

Well, Crimson Feather, to be honest, there has been conversation on these boards several times about the good stuff coming from Lazaris. I have often participated in that conversation. You see, the good is not what we question around these parts.

Crimson Feather said: I short, who gives a shit if Jach is the biggest fake/hoax on the planet if what is coming from him is helping multitudes - and you can be sure that IT IS. Additionally, who gives a shit if Jach - or anyone else associated with Concept:Synergy - behaves as a big fat hypocrite if what comes from him/them saves Love, Relationships, and Lives - and it has.

Ok, so here is where we come to the crux of it all I think.

There probably is all the good you talk about in the Lazaris teachings. BUT, what if the people standing up to deliver those teachings behave in a way which ultimately causes as much or sometimes more hurt than the good coming from, or maybe you would prefer to say through, the same people? Now, if for just a split second you could consider that possibility, how would you have to react to it?

I mean, as a mental health professional you are used to working with hurting people. Do you feel that doing or saying good stuff to folks excuses also putting them through abusive behaviors?

If a battered woman comes to you, do you tell her to only focus on the good her battering husband does to her? Or do you help her find the strength to leave the abusive relationship?

Crimson Feather said: Have you ever thought that the information coming from Lazaris - or Jach - who cares?

Personally, I dont give a rats ass where the information comes from, or wether or not Lazaris is real. Or atleast for this conversation I dont, that is completely up to you, and your own powers of discernment to ultimately find out. I also deeply respect the strength you have obviously found in working with the Lazaris material.

Crimson Feather said: My E-mail is: crimson_feather@hotmail.com

Ok, so I will copy this reply into an email to you. You can then decide if you want to continue this conversation on the boards, which I would encourage, or privately. I can promise I will not post our conversation without your permission.

Like my daughter already said: if you talk the talk you better be able to walk the walk.....

Jach and Peny have often said that they "live" their spirituality...they "live" what they have learned.....

NEVER have I heard Lazaris say that it's loving or kind or humane to humiliate, belittle, insult, betray, lie to, lie about, and so very many more hurtful actions.....that is exactly what Jach, Peny, and the "gang" do continuously, consciously, and intentionally.....and guess what??? They consciously, intentionally, and continuously give credit to Lazaris for all of it!!! (You see, they "know" the Lazaris Material better than any other person on this earth because they have personal conversations with him/them daily.)

So just who is Lazaris????? Is Lazaris a compilation of Jach, Peny, Michaell, and the "gangs" thoughts and beliefs??? Is that why Lazaris is "they??????" Do they take a bit of glorious truth and rope you in...then once roped in add a "twist of BS" to imply that you don't know what Lazaris has said at all???????

It's SICK, crimsen feather...they have abused more people than they have helped. Yes, there is MUCH of the material that is beautiful and good, but that depends on the person receiving the information and how they process it and put it into action in their lives. Most people who attend seminars are very lovely and sincere...most members of the forum are very lovely and sincere...yet the ones who are in a management position, the ones who loudly represent Lazaris and the Lazaris Material, are surely the most despicable characters I've had the misfortune of meeting. But they "live their spirituality." They are obnoxious and just plain mean-spirited. And this they have learned from Lazaris???!!!! puke/vomit

See ya later...this is too nauseating to even write about.