Rick Ross, a cult expert offers a very interesting set of criteria for defining a cult and determining whether a cult is destructive or not. His site is www.rickross.com.

Many of the criteria fit CS like a glove.

Maybe we can discuss others if anyone is interested. I just have time right now to write about the first.

Anyway the first sign of cult activity according to Ross is :

**1.A charismatic leader--who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.*****

Lazaris certainly fits this profile. The initial focus is appealing to most. Who doesn't want to learn to manifest more powerfully? Experience a greater spiritual connection ?

The focus has clearly shifted now to the "Lazaris Personality" and the Lazaris "myth of eternal love".

As the follower grows more and more disenchanted with his or her inability to reconcile the teaching that success is natural and fun with the frustration of trying to incorporate baroque, complex manifestation and healing techniques to create that success, a sense of despair and an erosion of confidence results.

The inadequacy and inconsistency that really belong to Lazaris are internalized by the follower.

The follower who carries this flaw must inevitably return to the only source now trustworthy for counsel.. Lazaris.

Tape after tape, workshop after workshop desperately trying to expiate the doubt and sense of failure implanted by the teaching itself.

The followers turn their gaze to the Lazaris "personality" that offers them comfort and reassurance.

How many times have we heard in recent years Lazaris soothing and reassuring us that we are not "terrible and awful" not "stupid" when we fail to meet our goals.

Yes, I agree we are not "terrible and awful" or stupid. Who ever said we were???

It was a real eye opener for me to realize that when Lazaris is reassuring us about how we are "not" something [horrible, stupid, failure etc] he is actually conditioning us to believe we are.

Those not prone to that kind of self recrimination are encouraged to feel they might be "missing something" by not beating themselves up.

Those who are so inclined, simply do what comes naturally. Either way the coffers are full for the next workshop of people hungry to fix the flaw that stands between them and total abundance joy and happines.

A merry go round with Lazaris in the middle.

Why do people get snowed into believing that this "entity" loves them when many who have been attending workshops for years still haven't been granted a personal consultation?

Where is the evidence of all this love? Just because Jach/Lazaris says in a breathy longing voice how much they love us, we are to accept it?

We have been conditioned to not question the quality or the fact of Lazaris love.

Yet where was all this love when Jach and Peny were conning people with tradevest?

Where was all this love when people were being bloodied in the forum?

Where is all this love when significant numbers of workshop attendees go into serious financial debt to attend these bullshit workshops on Lemuria and King Arthur.

Where is all this love when his anointed Dolly Mama Peny North tells a follower she would like to slap her for questioning Jach?

Where is all this love for us when Lazaris allows Jach and Peny to use his name to financially gauge and already bled-dry customer with crystals and paraphernalia way, way over the usual retail markup?

Love? hardly even by Lazaris own defintion of love. Where is the caring, compassion in any of those activities?

People no doubt create wonderful things in their lives and attribute it to the love of Lazaris rather than their own increasing grasp of metaphysics. Another disempowering tool. When you do something great, Lazaris gets the credit. When you do something not great you take the blame.

Sounds like a description from the early Lazaris material of a person who takes only selective responsiblity.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-10-2001).]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post.

I have come to the conclusion a while ago that the Lazaris myth is baloney, and that it is soo interesting that, after the many 2000 Forum disasters, "Lazaris" sees this as the Year of Mystery, where you either accept the mysterious at face value or become a metaphysical loser. I can't even put a "sarcasm smilie" here because that would lighten the reality of a dreadful manipulation.

However, over the last few days, I have allowed myself again to feel the sadness of not having the complete, innocent child-like trust in something that could be switched on as easily as a tape-player. The easiness of having "instant" acceptance, without even having to figure out what is making you want acceptance (or whatever) at that moment was very seductive. Very dangerously seductive. Because, as I see it, no matter how good heroin feels—its NOT good for you.

Thanks for the post again!

Yes, it is amazing that we all believed that Lazaris loves us simply because "they" said so! See also the Love Bombing thread for more discussion about this.

You wrote:

quote:

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Yes, I agree we are not "terrible and awful" or stupid. Who ever said we were???

---

Umm... the Orlando Gangsters?

You wrote:

quote:

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Another disempowering tool. When you do something great, Lazaris gets the
credit. When you do something not great you take the blame.

---

Lazaris actually said on the Co-Creation tape that it works that way. If the programming is successful, everyone involved is responsible. If it fails, you are responsible. Unfortunately, many of us didn't even take our share of the credit for successes - we gave it all to Lazaris. We wouldn't want to be arrogant, would we?

I wonder why arrogance is never attributed to Lazaris. Here is a dude that feels that they have to spoonfeed us every aspect of a concept - we can't just hear the concept and extrapolate on out own (God forbid, we may see an inconsistency) - he needs to use multiple examples because we're too stupid to "get it" with just one. He is so great and knowledgable that he can help us with every aspect of our lives, yet he doesn't need our advice for anything. After all, he is of the "Higher Realms". We have nothing to give Lazaris but our gratitude. But he has so much to give us. We were struggling and asked for help. So Lazaris lovingly and condescendingly chose to enlighten us. This isn't arrogance?

quote:

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Originally posted by TedV:
Hi Jeremiah,

Lazaris actually said on the Co-Creation tape that it works that way. If the programming is successful, everyone involved is responsible. If it fails, [b]you are responsible. Unfortunately, many of us didn't even take our share of the credit for successes - we gave it all to Lazaris. We wouldn't want to be arrogant, would we?

I wonder why arrogance is never attributed to Lazaris. Here is a dude that feels that they have to spoonfeed us every aspect of a concept - we can't just hear the concept and extrapolate on out own (God forbid, we may see an inconsistency) - he needs to use multiple examples because we're too stupid to "get it" with just one. He is so great and knowledgable that he can help us with every aspect of our lives, yet he doesn't need our advice for anything. After all, he is of the "Higher Realms". We have nothing to give Lazaris but our gratitude. But he has so much to give us. We were struggling and asked for help. So Lazaris lovingly and condescendingly chose to enlighten us. This isn't arrogance?

Cheers, Ted[/B]

---

I had forgotten that Lazaris lays out different criteria for resonsiblity for "himself" ...lol

Thanks for pointing that out. Very telling.

Also, good point regarding the arrogance.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karolina:

However, over the last few days, I have allowed myself again to feel the sadness of not having the complete, innocent child-like trust in something that could be switched on as easily as a tape-player. The easiness of having "instant" acceptance, without even having to figure out what is making you want acceptance (or whatever) at that moment was very seductive. Very dangerously seductive. Because, as I see it, no matter how good heroin feels—its NOT good for you.

I particularly like how you put this. Equating the cheap, easy, feel good quality of the Lazaris myth to heroin is a good analogy to me. It is too easy, and too addictive. Beyond that, it simply takes away our power and makes us crave more of that outside support, and rely less upon our own inner strength and wisdom.

By superimposing Lazaris between us and God/Goddess, we were placed in a trap.

But, like many traps, the trapper is underestimating the passion of the prey to be free.

We can cut ourselves loose, but I wonder how easily they ever can cut themselves loose from this deception? It seems to me that the web they've woven has ensnared them much more completely than it has anyone else.

Thanks for posting your thoughts, Karolina, I always enjoy reading them.

quote:

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By superimposing Lazaris between us and God/Goddess, we were placed in a trap.

---

Yes, were we suckered into a trap by this spurious intermediary entity/diety ( the Jach/act), his phony high priestess and the forum cabal. We also set aside our own personal spiritual standards and allowed them to be set for us -- the dynamics of organized religion, disguised in New Age trappings.

Love,
Jade

When a new poster arrives stating that this site exists due to hurt and desire for revenge, one has to wonder why the individual has choosen to overlook all of the substancepresented here about the detrimental aspects of following "Lazaris."

Leaping to make a comparison between CF and the forum is a lame diversion. The forum is charged with fear, control and censorship.

Whatever has been posted about hypnosis, the overall effect of "Lazaris" is a longterm trance -- waking up is the way to finally recognize it.

Hard as it is to think of oneself as being brainwashed, it's a necessary step in Self recovery.

Jade

Thanks for reviving this gem of a thread.

We've had lots of good and thoughtful discussions here based on research, and our own experiences.

It isn't the most pleasant feeling to realize having been brainwashed, but it is a liberating and empowering one, once the recognition kicks in.

It's a shame that anyone would come here and try to stop this conversation rather than ponder and contribute to the information being provided.

No ones arm is being twisted to accept it or agree but you would think that anyone curious enough to check out this site would be just as curious to follow a path of reasoning to come to their own conclusions rather than try to demean us by making up reasons why we have come to ours.

It is a tangled web, but the only way to untangle it is to deal in fact, not fiction.

That is assuming of course, that there is interest in untangling it. I can't think of any respectable reason why any sincere and honest person wouldn't want to do that.

Jade you wrote...

"Leaping to make a comparison between CF and the forum is a lame diversion."

Con:Sin is a cult. Comparing Con:Sin to the Cosmic Fool would suggest that the Cosmic Fool is also a cult.

Problem is we don't even fit the first sign...

Jeremiah originally posted...

Anyway the first sign of cult activity according to Ross is:

**1.A charismatic leader--who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.*****

And unless you take up levitating and glowing with a blue/white light Katie I can't see myself starting to worship you.

Well I guess you have no way of knowing what a glowing, free flying chick I really am, but all that aside, I have no desire to lead anyone anywhere.

Let's make a deal, you go your way, and I'll go mine, and we'll continue to send postcards and letters telling all about the scenery we're seeing and the fun we're having!!

No Masters, No Gurus, No Teachers!!!!

I'm here where I want to be
Seven thousand miles from infinity
Now one knows where I am.

It's quite here with me
I'm filling in the spaces where the killings used to be
There's no phone
and no way home

It's been a long time
It's been a long time coming

I'm here
where I want to be
Seven thousand miles from infinity
No one knows where I am....but me.

-Meryn Cadell (album: angel food for thought)