I thought it might be interesting to post some information that indicates where some of the Lazaris material may have come from.

Other posts here have speculated whether Jach had studied the Silva Mind Control Method prior to channelling Lazaris. Reading "The Silva Mind Control Method" reveals some striking similarities.

What follows are some quotes from the Seth book "The Nature of Personal Reality" published in 1974, the same year that Jach started speaking as Lazaris.

Reading this, it is worth wondering if this might be where the Lazaris concept of "Negative Ego" had its origins sans all the fear.

Though published in early 1974, the following was dictated by Jane Roberts and recorded by her husband in September of 1972

Seth writes:

"I have spoken of "you", yet this must not be confused with the "you" that you often think you are -- the ego alone, for the ego is only a portion of You; it is the expert part of your personality that deals directly with the contents of your conscious mind, and is concerned most directly with the material portions of your experience."
Session 613, p.14 , The Nature of Personal Reality

The ego can feel cut off, lonely and frightened, however, if the conscious mind lets the ego run away with it. The ego and the conscious mind are not the same thing. The ego is composed of various portions of the personality."
Session 613, p.14 , The Nature of Personal Reality

It is only when the conscious mind becomes rigid in its direction, or allows the ego to take on some of its own functions, that difficulties arise. The ego allows the conscious mind to work in certain directions and blocks its awareness in others. And so it is from your larger identity that you form the reality that you know. It is up to you to do this with joy and vigor, clearing your conscious mind so that the deeper knowledge of your greater identity can form joyous expressions in the world of flesh."
Session 613, p.14 , The Nature of Personal Reality

In his writing Seth emphasizes the individuals power and doesn't resort to fear mongering the way Lazaris does when talking about the ego.

You can see from these quotes just how similar the concept is in terms of how the ego is defined and how it becomes problematic.

Anyway, this isn't a commercial for Seth, although I think highly of the Seth material. I just think its helpful to speculate on where some of the quality concepts that Lazaris discusses may have come from, if Lazaris does not exist.

Peace,

Jeremiah

Wow, what an excellent thread! Thank you so much for coming up with this idea. I shall be looking forward to these posts with much anticipation!

Love,
Demian DreamSinger

Great idea, and thanks for taking the time to reference the Seth Material.

I think Jach took this idea of "negative ego" to new heights when drawing from the definitions and functions of ego from different sources, including, as you point out, the Seth materials.

A search for "negative ego" on the internet brought me this quote from alt.religion newsgroup. A poster had asked about Lazaris' definition of "negative ego". The response included this interesting bit.

"Many ascetic religious traditions disempower the individual through focus
upon 'the evil ego', and what this comes down to is a kind of cult-
mechanic which subsumes the person's power to that of the group, often
through the mechanism of shame, guilt or fear. One of the best indicators
of a dangerous religious cult is that they criticize egotism and individual
thought or behavior. This can also be seen in totalitarian political
systems. The two are not very different, really."

In my experience with the Lazaris materials, and through my participation in the Forum, I can see how Jach has taken this concept of a negative ego state to new heights, and I wonder if it was deliberately constructed to function as a control mechanism, or if Peny grabbed onto it somewhere along the way and began to use it as such, and drilling her Gang in its use as a whip.

Regardless of how or why the manipulation began, it is so clear to me that this "negative ego" myth is used to control, shame, and guilt trip people. It is used as a weapon by the Gangstas who themselves it would seem never themselves fall prey to this state.

Anyway, I know this is a bit off topic.

Before we put up this message board I spent a lot of time researching the possible sources for the Bizzarus materials. I found a lot of interesting stuff, It will be fun to find some of it again and post it here.

It's important, I think, to share with each other the information and process each of us has gone through to come to our conclusions about the JachZaris materials.

Is it actually not only possible that there is no Lazaris, but that there is no "negative ego" as defined by them? Could it be true that those of us who question the materials and the behavior of the Gang are not actually fueling a "psychotic killer" by doing so?

Maybe it isn't the "negative ego" which is the enemy, but our belief in it which causes the devastation.

Lots of love,

[[Maybe it isn't the "negative ego" which is the enemy, but our belief in it which causes the devastation.]]

Excellent point and I agree. The neurosis we have invitation to develop around what Lazaris teaches about negative ego is profound.

The dire descriptions and the purported potential threats of an "unbusted" ego are so vividly portrayed, I think alot of us just out of fear scrambled to incorporate the information and overlooked the mixed and confusing contradictions in the material. Those were dismissed as the negative egos attempts to avoid prosecution..[bg]

Mixed messages:

Lazaris teache the ego is weak BUT the ego can destroy in minutes what has taken you a lifetime to build.

Lazaris also teaches that negativity is weak.

Two statements from Lazaris. Ok, if negativity is weak and the negative ego is all about negativty and yet the negative ego can destroy in minutes what it has taken a lifetime to build HOW WEAK DOES THAT MAKE US? How does our subconcious interpret that message?

Negativity may be weak, but you are weaker..lol

Look, Lazarians would argue that being in negative ego makes you weak..bla blah..

What I think is worth examining is what you pointed out. Perhaps the conception of the negative ego and the process around it is the dangerous, life threatening thing.

Obviously anybody with half a brain knows that you can ruin something precious in a moment by doing something stupid.

Lazaris introduces a steady diet of fear into the concept of self destruction by animating the ego endowing it with purpose and motivation .

Lazaris says the negative ego is out to destroy us. Hates us. Is angry at us for placing too much responsibility on its shoulders and now wants revenge.

What is created is a very palpable image of an ENEMY that is doggedly pursuing you throughout your day. This is a very fearful thing to say the least.

What if that isn't true. What if the simple truth is the ego is a part of the whole personality. What if the ego isnt split into a duality of positive and negative?

What if the ego is not life threatening?

What if fear and focusing on fear makes you defensive, hostile and always ready for attack?

What if it isn't mad at us and isn't out to destroy us?

What if ? Lazaris always said one of the reasons the ego is allowed to take over is that we refuse to think.. so lets think about it..LOL

It sounds so good, so plausible.. yes most people are afraid to think, many people do refuse to take responsibility for themselves and do the other things that Lazaris says create an opportunity for the ego to take over.

However it occurs to me that much of what is considered "Negative Ego" can simply be handled by common sense and by applying basic spiritual principles to your life.

Why the unholy focus on this monster within. Granted it is a worthy concept an people do screw things up pretty miserably out of delucion and self importance.

Speaking of delusion and self importance, Peny North springs to mind, so lets use her as an example.

Now assuming [and we all know what a generous assumption this is] Peny works with her ego, as Lazaris conceives of it and reccomends.

I don't think many would argue that Peny North exhibits every last symptom of Negative Ego that is outlined in the Lazaris material Delusional, self important, doesn't seem to be too intereted in thinking. Judgemental and Punishing.

Lets just assume she has been applying these techniques to herself. IF so they really don't work very well do they? The seem to generate the qualities the process is meant to eliminate or "bust"

Maybe the hysteria and fear and self doubt that Lazaris inspires when he discusses negative ego in fact makes it virtually impossible to focus on anything but fear and the resentment that fear produces.

Maybe thats whay Peny and the Gang are so defensive, hostile and insulated. Perhaps they are so convinced of an enemy within that they see an enemy in anything and anyone that doesn't completely agree with them on everything.

More later..gotta run.

What a great thread!!!

In the Self-Improvement section of any bookstore you should find copies of "Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude," "Think and Grow Rich," "Keys to Success," all by Napoleon Hill. "Think and Grow Rich" was written in 1937!!! All these books are invaluable in their information.

All of these books stress the importance of having a Positive Mental Attitude to achieve anything at all in your life. I read a couple of these before I met Lazaris and believe that this is partially why I embraced Lazaris so instantly. I think that Lazaris teaches these same techniques at the various success/achievement seminars with more flowery wording.

I also have a list of books that can be found in the business section of bookstores that include very similar but just as valuable information.

One tidbit that I find interesting is that Napoleon Hill was a good friend of W.Clement Stone, who is the founder and co-chairman of Combined Insurance Company of America, Jach of course having been climbing the corporate ladder in an insurance company.

These books deal with how to improve your life, be it in sales or just plain living.
A Positive Mental Attitude is the foundation for all successful endeavers. The principles and steps of success are the same no matter what your goal may be, be it in business or in private life. The "raw materials" are the same.

Like I said, these particular books were published in the 30's and 40's!!! Though many give credit only to Lazaris for the miraculous steps to success, they have been around since before most of us were even born!

Positive Mental Attitude vs. Negative Attitude/?Negative Ego.

Also, The Silva Mind Control Method is said to be a practical guide to controlling your own mind......Lazaris is publicized to offer "practical metaphysics." hmmm the similarities are truly striking from beginning to end.

Anyway, I just wanted to add another possible source for Jach. These books deal with the practicals.....

Love,

Marilyn

Since I don't think Lazaris is real, I don't think Peny would has any concern about concoctions like "negative ego". She probably thought it up with Jach.

I never understood why CS moved their forum from CompuServe to the Internet. What kind of "safe place" is this which has to be protected by practically excluding Non-Lazarians from the Forum? Why do they have to hide from the "consensus reality"? If their reality is so strong - why can't they openly confront "our" reality? Talk about the many different belief systems and discuss them? In their world there are only two belief systems: "theirs" and "ours". What narrow-minded approach!

I was always amazed how uninterested Lazarians were when it came to arts, philosophy, religion, other channels, other cultures!

I would love to see people from The Forum posting here - discussing the Lazaris material on another basis - a basis of openness, not of fear.

But well - Peny would propably say that would be a trap for the negative ego.

I have an answer for that: DARE TO THINK AND LOVE FOR YOURSELF!

Claus

You wrote:

[[I never understood why CS moved their forum from CompuServe to the Internet. What kind of "safe place" is this which has to be protected by practically excluding Non-Lazarians from the Forum? Why do they have to hide from the "consensus reality"? If their reality is so strong - why can't they openly confront "our" reality? Talk about the many different belief systems and discuss them? In their world there are only two belief systems: "theirs" and "ours". What narrow-minded approach!]]

Narrow-minded is a polite way to put it [g]

The gang thinking on the forum is so black and white, so completely reactionary that they really do give the impression that they have never heard of metaphysics or of reality creation.

They also have very poor manners which may not seem like much but I believe it is the reflection of an uncivil spirit.

They have little interest as you noted in other cultures except denigrate them by asserting the superiority of the United States any tchance they get .

The arts are of no interest to them because the arts are subjective, fluid and anything that cannot insight an argument is of little psychological value to them. They seem to organize existance around some kind of battle or another. I think thats why they like politics so much, it feeds that black and white agenda so readily.

But they don't even seem to know much about politics really, just the right wing propaganda that gets them all juiced. They quote it and reference it as though it were established truth. Shockingly sloppy thinkers.

Its been pointed out here that the gang rarely writes about anything to do with the Lazaris material [unless of course, to push their overpriced crystals]

I think alot of people may just assume they are "past" discussing the material..LOL..

Hardly. I think it doesn't interest them much.

One of the gangsters recently made a statement during the election to the effect that we dont, actually create our reality. [It was probably an inconvenient notion since all the election mess]..[g]

I wrote back to him [in the forum] and pointed out how what he said basically ran counter to any notion of the truths of metaphysics.

Before he had a chance to write back Jach jumped in, probably trying to avert a fight because the gang usually doesn't do its gangup thing when one of them writes something so undeniably stupid that it can not be defended.

Jach handled him very delicately because this gang memeber is one of the most vindictive and volatile of the group.

Jach wrote to him saying "I know you know you create your own reality. and you probably didn't mean to write that but.but..blah blah" like he was placating a child.

This group is about a subtle as a sledgehammer and I certainly not nearly as sharp minded as they fancy themselves to be.

Smug is about the best word to describe them. Smug and ignorant.. good thing they have each other..[g]

You Wrote:

[[I really loved the Seth books. Before I encountered "Lazaris", they were my favorite metaphysical teachings. No negatives, no fear stuff. When I first wondered into the Corte Madera Illuminarium in 1986 (the beginning of my involvement with C:S), an employee told me that "Lazaris" communicated with Seth. I watched the first "Lazaris" video, and since it was similar to Seth it appealed to me. Before long, I put Seth in the past because I thought "Lazaris" was more available and appeared tobe more advanced. Plus I could go to workshops, buy tapes and videos, not just read a few books. Less was better.]]

Funny, I had the exact experience thinking that Lazaris had more to say than Seth and would go deeper.. I agree with you that LESS WAS BETTER !!!! LOL

What I really think is that "Lazaris" had more to GAIN$$$ than anything subtsantive to to say, blathering as he has for so many years to great financial gain.

The Seth material is quite comprehensive and inexpensive, you could probably buy every published word of Seths for the money you might spend on two of those godforsaken fucking purple lazaris tapes.

Plus with Seth you don't need "Props" like crystals and talismans and miracle making machines..All you need is the willingness to really work with yourself.

The seth material doesn't require a line of subsidiary business to support a staff.

Seth doesn't have any of the thinly veiled contempt for physicality that I think runs inferred throughout the Lazaris material

you wrote:

[[Since I don't think Lazaris is real, I don't think Peny would has any concern about concoctions like "negative ego". She probably thought it up with Jach. ]]

Yeah, but you would think from a business perspective she might at least want to give the impression of using the "product" LOL..

I believe they have total and utter contempt for the customer and operate on the assumption they have everyone in line

The attitude seems to be "no matter how we treat you, you want Lazaris so you will come back "

I think they miscalculate [vbg]

Peace,

Jeremiah

Yeah you are right, so much of this stuff was out there in the 30s and earlier. I found some metaphysical books from the 20's in a used bookstore and the messages are pretty consistently the same.

They may not be very original but Jach and Peny sure have the balls to jack the price way through the roof and make people feel privledged for the favor.

LOL

Peace,

You wrote [[ One of the gangsters recently made a statement during the election to the effect that we dont, actually create our reality. [It was probably an inconvenient notion since all the election mess]..[g] ]]

Actually, they were able to come up with a rationalization for all the election mess just fine without throwing out reality creation afterall.

Someone had posted they wondered what was up with this crazy swinging back and forth during the election, how it wasn't elegant at all, and then they suddenly remembered that Lazaris had said that with the emergence of the New World there would be come into view the faces of the Dream and the Nightmare simultaneously that only the mapmakers would be able to see and perceive what it was.

So the election fiasco wasn't a reflection of the Forum magicians inability to elegantly create a victory at all. It was the promise of the New World and the Nightmare of the old showing their faces simultaneously as one was leaving and another was entering just as Lazaris had said.

And it was the Forum magicians committment to hold on to the new world and their magic that finally saved the day in the end.

This post brought an "Oh, yeah!" reaction from other concerned "magicians" who were very relieved to know everything was happening as it should and there was no need to question what they were doing or how well they were doing it.

How's that for convenient!

Love,
Demian DreamSinger

I remember one of the Right Winger (the most prominent one in the Forum) saying that the world fears Germany's arrogance and called me arrogant, too. The sad thing: I apologized. I'm still upset about this when I remember this episode. I really thought I hurted the Right Wingers feelings. I didn't notice back then, that this guy manipulated me in the meanest way possible.

I remember two core groups in The Forum: The Right Wingers and The Hysterical Women. They were on their own power trips: Each and every one of them was "moved to tears" "and "so very touched" by every post of Peny and Jach and just wanted to get attention by the Almighty Ones. (For lurking outsiders:Some of these posts are accessible on the Lazaris website : "Sample Forum Discussions" and are so unwillingly funny. Go check them! ). I thought that this is something I can't understand because Americans are more emotional - so I thought. Now I know better and I almost pity this poor women with way too much time on their hands (Right expression? ).

Another thought: If Lazaris is really Our Great Guide why has he impact on only a few thousand people, after so many years? And why seem so many of these people desperate and unhappy?

I heard that Michael York was associated with Lazaris. What happened since then?

Claus

Were you logging into the forum in December when that unsuspecting girl with liberal leanings came in for the first time the day after the Supreme Court Decision about the Presidency?

The Seth material is quite comprehensive and inexpensive, you could probably buy every published word of Seths for the money you might spend on two of those godforsaken fucking purple lazaris tapes.

Dear Jeremiah,

The "Conversations with God" books by Neale Donald Walsch are even more inexpensive and they are really something, in my opinion. The books always show respect for the readers' intelligence - that's something that these books have in common with the Seth material. I can't say the same about Lazaris.

The God of Neale Donald Walsch suggests amazingly few techniques - one of the best concepts is - praying.

I just love that - compared to the Lazaris "techniques".

You wrote:

[[Were you logging into the forum in December when that unsuspecting girl with liberal leanings came in for the first time the day after the Supreme Court Decision about the Presidency?]]

Well, I was a member of the forum until only a few weeks ago but I don't remember this particular situation.

but It is very likely that I scrolled through it and never read it. During the election, I would log on see ALL the posts on the forum were in the political section and all were authored by the SAME 5 people and I wouldn't bother to read.

My last few days in the forum, one of the Gang members wrote something supporting [surprise] George Bushes funding cuts to oversees family planning agencies.

Very simply, he pontificated without a grasp of the facts. I wrote back stating the facts and citing the laws that supported my veiw.

His response? after a few posts back and for where he indicted everyone from to the NAACP, Planned Parenthood and women in general he proclaimed that he understood the facts, he just didn't think they were important.. LOL

Sounds like the PurselNorthNorth modus operandi to me..

Cheers,

Jeremiah

You wrote [[ Were you logging into the forum in December when that unsuspecting girl with liberal leanings came in for the first time the day after the Supreme Court Decision about the Presidency?]]

I was. In fact, there were several people who started to post right after that decision with liberal leanings. Anyone with such leanings either convert or leave as in chased off or kicked out for "being inappropriate". That's the way it's always been that I remember and this time around it was the same. No liberal person lasted long.

You know, for me it wasn't a matter of whether someone was right wing or left wing or inbetween wing, flew, swam or crawled. What was significant, what was important to me was not what one believed as much as how one believed.

Years ago I became involved in a grassroots movement supporting the Chinese detainees most of whom were imprisoned in my hometown jail. They were the refugees from the ship, "The Golden Venture" that ran aground in New York. I became very close to one of the women detainees who was actually jailed in New Orleans and then California. But most of the men were detained in York, PA.

The core group of supporters who called themselves, "People of the Golden Vision" were extraordinary. We were a group comprised of hardcore born againers, aetheists, agnostics, new agers, buddhists, Jews, pro-choice and pro-lifers, right and left wingers and probably everything inbetween!

We met in front of the prison every Sunday late afternoon. The leader was a minister, female, a liberation theologist, she liked to call herself. Most of us were appalled by the forced abortion and sterlization situation in China that many of the Chinese fled to escape. We prayed...except when I was asked to lead. Then we meditated and visualized while I stood there wearing my dancing goddess necklace. Often I was a spokesperson as I sang and performed a monologue telling the stories of the Chinese detainee women.

A devout Christian pulled me aside one afternoon and told me he and others in the group would fight to the death for my right to believe what I did. One afternoon while driving in D.C. on our way to lobby, a car passed us with the Christian fish symbol with legs and a saying about evolution.

He was offended and started to say something, but I thought it was funny and I started to laugh. I couldn't help myself. He stopped a moment, and because he knew me and trusted me as his friend, he shared in the levity of the moment and began to laugh himself. He knew me well enough to know there was no cruelty or disrespect in my laughter.

A staunch pro-life activist, whom I call my friend and have the deepest respect for, gave a talk where he said pro-lifers often felt that pro-choice people supported murder, but he said that wasn't true. He said what pro-choice people supported was the woman, and even though he disagreed with how they supported the woman, he honored their motives and their good heart.

I always felt safe among these people and they will always be very dear to me. They respected me and I respected them. Sometimes when we lobbied on the hill, people from outside our group would try to commandeer our cause. Right wing fundamentalists would address our group as if we were all Christians or pro-life. I noticed it was always a Christian pro-lifer who would speak up first and say not everyone in our group fit in that catagory and then defend the diversity of who we were.

We were all very proud of what was being created here. On some level we knew that even though the cause which brought us all together was a good and noble cause, the real miracle, the real magic was what was happening with us and between us. It was like that group was a small prototype of what our world could be like and we guarded the beauty of that fiercely.

The detainees were finally released, and many of us went on our way. But I will always, always remember just how very special this group was. It serves as a beacon of hope and inspiration to me. I saw divergent groups of people with beliefs that can never be reconciled stand together, work together and love one another as human beings.

No one walked away with a different set of beliefs or a watered down version or compromise their stand because of our exposure to one another. The pro-lifers are just as devoted to their cause as the pro-choicers. Left wings are still left and right wings still right. No cross over of religions or new converts.

Everyone who came to the group with their beliefs walked away with them intact, but with a deeper faith in the goodness of humanity and the knowledge that respect, true respect, not patronizing tolerance, could create a New World.

This is something more than the Forum with all its mapmakers have ever created. I couldn't help but notice the difference between the fanaticism in the political threads among so called mapmakers, and especially the enlightened one, Peny, and the openness of heart and mind of the poor dumb consensus folk of this grassroots group.

They never even heard of Lazaris and no doubt, more than a few would have been totally freaked out. But to me, they were the real mapmakers. They didn't have the jargon, and they didn't have a grasp of metaphysical concepts, but they had heart and they honored me as genuine and true to my convictions. I was safer among my fundamentalist friends there than I ever was in the Forum.

Thanks for your post, Karolina. I haven't thought about these people for quite a while and it brings me pleasure as well as a sense of peace in my heart during this challenging time.

Love,
Demian DreamSinger

aka Seeker

Thanks for a great post. I love your uncompromising optimism and passion.

What these blow-hards in the Forum don't seem to understand is that ideas that are controversial are controversial for a reason - there are good arguments to made made on at least two sides of the issue. The fact that someone takes a contrary position does not necessarily mean they are stupid, evil or "in negative ego".

Laws against murder and theft are not controversial because there really is no reasonable argument against them. But abortion, affirmative action, gun control, the death penalty all have reasonable arguments on both sides. One can be passionate about either side and still respect the opposing view.

Another thing these dimwits don't get is that the more people who can come together for a cause, the more chance the cause has for success. If we refuse to work with people who don't hold the exact same political and/or spiritual views that we do, there won't be too many people left to help out.

Your story is a great inspiration. It shows how so much can be accomplished by focusing on where we agree, rather than where we disagree.

Your story is a very beautiful and inspiring one. I am very glad that my question triggered your memory of this extraordinary experience of love in a group of people with such diverse convictions and points of reference, who were not at all "of one mind," but were able to rise above that and be of one spirit.

What a very different experience than for a liberal in the Forum. I believe that the perception for that particular girl was that this was a place with a group of people with illogical convictions and a skewed point of focus, who apparently were of one mind and unable to get past that to be of any spirit.

In fact, I know that this was her perception.

Good chuckle:

quote:

---

Yeah, but you would think from a business perspective she might at least want to give the impression of using the "product" LOL..

---

It's the old, "do as I say not as I do" for this fine product.

I don't think I've said "Hi!" to you yet, so ... Hi!

Your descriptions of the 2 core groups in the Forum >>The Right Wingers and The Hysterical Women<< is very accurate and it is a delight for me to hear that someone else picked that up so clearly.

The bottom line is that to participate in there, ended up being a huge energy drain for me. It would have been a tremendous time drain too, if I had continued to try and be polite and give attention to every emotionally moved person who wanted a response to the anger or hurt or pain that I brought to them because I didn't care about Clinton's private life, and every person quoting Right Wing supportive media and speaking to me in a condescending tone, telling me that I "just don't get it."

Though I was born here, I am the first generation in my family not to be born in Europe, so I think I have a bit of a grasp on how odd all of the behavior in the Forum seemed to you (as it did to me) and how you might at first have attributed it to being due to nuances of a foreign culture.

The guy who manipulated you into being apologetically self-effacing toward him was just using a typical Forum tactic, in my experience. I believe they can smell any bit of insecurity in there and immediately use it against the person. Very energy draining, as long as you take them seriously.

Incidentally, I've been to Germany twice and I loved it both times. One of the defining moments of my life happened in Munich, looking at the overwhelming canvases at the Alte Pinakothek.

Joy!
Karolina

Interesting, verrry interesting. So this Forumite did NOT want the facts. Yet I was told that I had to stick to ONLY facts.

AND to show that they were actual facts, and not just my processing publically in the Forum, I needed to back up every statement that I made with a media title and date. I guess from the bibliography that every person keeps of everything that they ever read, see or hear.

"No bibliography—no right to speak with any conviction, babe. That's processing and that's not allowed".

Hmmm. Yet they are also saying "We don't want the facts Not the facts".

Seems like that would leave precious little to discuss, so the only thing to do would be to create drama. That passes the time and gets the blood pumping.

Yah.

thanks for your welcome!

Well, what coincidence: I'm from Munich, Germany and me and my wife will visit the Alte Pinakothek this weekend.

Have you ever visited the "Private Photo Library" on the Lazaris Forum? There is a picture of this certain Right Winger called Michaele or something like that... lying at his pool. He was tiny, almost invisible in the background... as if he was hiding. A very telling picture.

These right wingers on the forum: What do they do for the well being of their communities? This Michael guy talked about resonance and what good example he is for other, help needing people, simply by being himself. That's what he called help.

What a bunch of old age egoists. They abuse their powers, their money wealth.

You really have to be desperate for love or desperately bored to be a member of the forum. After moving from the CompuServe forum to the Internet site I was criticized that I was not grateful enough to Jach because I made a remark about the disadvantages of the new forum. Three or four hysterical women wrote "Me-Too" posts. Then Jach thanked them for their support, ignoring me and my remarks. I quickly wrote an apologizing post (""I have so much more to learn, I'm sorry!" and more self-humilating stuff). When I tried to upload the post the server had a software glitch.

Thank god!

Because then I made up my mind and thought: "What the f***! They treat me like shit and I want to apologize to these boring people who don't listen and talk behind my back and lie about me?"

So I went away and I was free.

Yes, joy!

This is not just a coincidence—it is a HUGE thumbs-up from the universe for me (as one of my buddies refers to these kinds of synchronicities).

Please—when you and your wife view Peter Paul Rubens' 10-foot tall canvas "Fall of the Damned," send me a thought with some energy attached! I remember that there was very little room to back away from it, and so basically I stood very close to it and looked up at the people raining out of the sky. The spiralling composition, the brilliant colors, and the subject—rebels against divine love forever excluded from Heaven—not to mention Rubens' breathtaking technique! I was overcome with emotion—the beauty and power of the painting, the drama of the scene and the greatness that a human being was capable of creating.

I would like to say that I was brought to tears, but actually I got nauseous. I was quite young, plus my friends and I had just had bratwurst and beer at one of the local beerhalls that my father had gone to as a student many years before. My friends didn't know how overewhelmed by the beauty of the painting I was—they just thought that I was having indigestion. Ha!

I'm glad for you too that your server went haywire when you were sending more forced compliance. It seems that you have many meaningful synchronicities in your life. With that kind of psychic foundation, I think that it would be impossible for you to not be free for long.

Much Joy!!
Karolina

[[ CompuServe forum to the Internet site I was criticized that I was not grateful enough to Jach because I made a remark about the disadvantages of the new forum. Three or four hysterical women wrote "Me-Too" posts.]]

Those "me too posts" were enough entertainment to warrant the 5 bucks a month. You could just about set your watch by their reactions.

I used to call them "The gab-more" sisters because they reminded me of the Gabor sisters from television. Remember them? you could never tell them apart but they were always on some television show being mistaken for one another sounding the same, looking the same, saying the same ridiculous things.

They are such ass kissing morons. I remember one of the gang girls blurted proudly that if Lazaris said something she would accept it without question.

[[Then Jach thanked them for their support, ignoring me and my remarks.]]

I think Jach is totally whipped.

[[Because then I made up my mind and thought: "What the f***! They treat me like shit and I want to apologize to these boring people who don't listen and talk behind my back and lie about me?"]]

YES

Jeremiah

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-09-2001).]

I was replying to your post to me and somehow I deleted it..sorry..dont know how I did it. I mean I seem to have deleted Karolina's post..sorry!

Can it be retrieved?

Jeremiah

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 02-09-2001).]

Not to worry—all posts still standing.

you wrote:

[[Interesting, verrry interesting. So this Forumite did NOT want the facts. Yet I was told that I had to stick to ONLY facts.]]

The forummunsters define facts rather loosely. The resources they ingest like Rush Limbauh and "The American Spectator" are an embarassment to legitimate conservative thinkers.

My theory is that they carefully study Peny's reaction to things. If Peny starts to dislike someone or something [example: Clinton] they scurry like rats to find sources to validate the great ones "intuition"

It is probably the chief means with which they ingratiate themselves to her and manipulate her with.

I remember she posted a request for one of the gangsters to explain something a therapist friend told her about why "most people don't like them" LOL..

No doubt some therapist Lazarian trying to ingratiate him/herself fed Peny some line about how "honest" they all were and that people couldn't deal...LOL..

People dont like them because they are assholes.. thats my explaniation.

[[ only thing to do would be to create drama. That passes the time and gets the blood pumping.]]

Yeah, its all about getting the adrenaline going and satisfying Peny's rapacious ego as far as I can tell.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

In your post to Karolina, you said:

[[[I remember she posted a request for one of the gangsters to explain something a therapist friend told her about why "most people don't like them" LOL..

No doubt some therapist Lazarian trying to ingratiate him/herself fed Peny some line about how "honest" they all were and that people couldn't deal...LOL..]]]

Methinks I remember that "therapist" trying to "therapuke" me to "their" way of thinking.LOL This was shortly before Forum Storm, when I said I didn't feel comfortable gossiping about a former "unique" member behind his back..that it made me feel guilty and disrespectful talking about him the way they were. I also said that I think that I was co-dependant with the forum itself. (shame on me for saying such a thing!)

This same person had been writing for quite awhile, but suddenly seemed to be a beacon for Peny and the gang with her "therapeutic" advice and analytical opinions of the rest of us.

[[[People dont like them because they are assholes.. thats my explaniation.]]]

That's exactly right!!! I regret that I gave "them" the respect to even "consider" what they said to me...

Love to ya,

Marilyn

quote:

---

AND to show that they were actual facts, and not just my processing publically in the Forum, I needed to back up every statement that I made with a media title and date.

---

My forum conflict began when Michaele H. summarily dismissed my well documented facts because he didn't like their sources -- said they were lefties. I thought they were pretty neutral myself. What happens in that forum is not about "facts", but attacks on divergent opinion. It's crazy making.

Check this out:
www.silvamethod.com

Interestiing site.

Love,

Thanks for the site. Because of it, I finally got around to picking up my Silva Mind Control Method book at the local Barnes and Noble. I'd ordered it several weeks ago, but kind of forgot to go get it.

It IS interesting stuff, isn't it?

Love,
Karolina

Yes, this IS interesting stuff. I thought it was better to go to the site yourselves and make up your own minds. This web site that I posted today clearly reminded me of getting in touch with our Higer Selves, our Future selves, and the Ultra Consciousness seminars. Nothing wrong with any of that except the "deception" that went before it.

I like what I've read re: Silva Method...I also like that they, Silva instructors, don't pretend to be anything they are not and are the instructors of a legitimate personal growth course.

Also, I've read that graduates of the course can create their own workshops under other titles, and I think that is what Jach and Peny have done with "panache," aka Lazaris. I have a feeling that because of the popularity of Seth and Ramtha, they "jumped on the bandwagaon" for sure profit. I also think that those "invitation only" sessions were just dress rehearsals for the biggah and betta seminars we know now. Of course that is just my opinion and I have no facts to back me up.

Also, there is something they call "HYPNOVISION" instead of hynosis at this Silva site, which I found interesting as well.

You know, Karolina, I have no problem with any of what I've read at the Silva Method sites and see the positive possibilities of learning and using it. It would have been much less of a drain on our pocketbooks if we had simply taken the Silva course ourselves! (And there would have been no lies, betrayal, outrage, abuse, self-abuse, humiliation, demolition of spirits of sincere, loving people...the list is endless, isn't it?)

I hope you enjoy the book as much as I do. It's a real mind/eye-opener as regards the method that Lazaris uses...but of course they've covered that, too, by saying that Lazaris uses Jach's vocabulary to communicate with us, so naturally he'd use this method.

Later, Karolina...

Love,

Marilyn

I don't believe I did post the link I was just talking about...

Here it is:

http://www.silvaultramind.bigstep.com/generic.html?pid=11

Hmmm, I think that's when I was booted in the middle of posting earlier today...

Love,

In a past post I mentioned books by Napoleon Hill that he wrote on Success, and that I thought Jach learned some of the "success" techniques from that area because N.H.'s good friend was W.Clement Stone, head of that big insurance group...I was surprised to see him and his writings mentioned on the Course Description page of the Silva site!

Just something I thought was synchronistic...

Love you all,

After reading the first few chapters of the book, one of the things that struck me, is the way José Silva speaks of "passive meditation" and then the meditation where you participate and create.

Two things come to my mind: first, back in his ESB days, Steve talked about female and male "love", and I remember that this got me thinking that although since working with the tapes I learned to be able to relax better, be less stressed out (i.e. be more passive), I seem to have lost some of the passion with which I would take initiative to resolve problems or begin a creative project. So, I'm wondering, now, if these guided visualizations, though they keep you in the relaxing Alpha state, don't make you, um...passive at the deeper levels. Kind of spiritually ultra-feminine-energy in behavior (——hence maybe such a big deal about the Goddess coming back). I don't know. Silva sees "passive meditation" as only practice to be able to get to the Alpha state more quickly to start working actively at that level.

Second, Silva says that at the Alpha state any negative, cruel, scary thoughts cannot be experienced. When I tried his method of meditation, and proceeded with the self-created visualization on a screen, after a few minutes I saw a scene that was quite unpleasant to me, but was clearly what was bothering me about the specific situation I had in mind. I immediately snapped out of Alpha——like waking up from a nightmare——disturbed, but with a clear understanding of the situation and how to proceed.

This reminded me of what Katie has suggested——that continuously implanting in one's mind foreign images and the messages that they carry may stunt and hinder spiritual, emotional, mental growth. Though it feels real nice (!!!), it's poison that pulls you away from your own reality. You gotta face your own demons, not just listen to how much "you are loved, forever and a day", and then waltz through the woods to encounter the subject of the tape, and then tell yourself that now the danger, negative situation, whatever, is over.

I believe the first time through, those tapes may be valuable to some people, but to allow yourself to develop a dependency on them is, in my opinion, lethal. If this is the case, that would further explain the addict-like behavior of the Forumonsters.

I hope everyone is having a great Sunday!

Love,
Karolina