Let me quickly "introduce" myself. I have been studying with Lazaris for about 10 years, was a member of the forum for a too long time, and have attended a few workshops over the years. The most recent one I attended was in October, and is what brings me to write here now. I have been reading along as a lurker, sometimes distressed because there is more truth written here than I've ever seen in the forum. Here there is no Lazaris to fall back on for "questionable" support or validation. Or would "unquestionable" be more appropriate to say?

After reading here about Forum Storm, which I witnessed, and let me tell you here, I met those people involved at the millenium party and liked them all. I sensed a sincerety in each one and the energy of love between them was delightful and real. I remember a person wrote in the forum that they acted like a bunch of adolescent wannabes and I beg to greatly differ with that person and want you to know that that person did receive some very appropriate feedback to that extremely ugly post. I met a bunch of energentic, lively people who were happy to be where they were, which was with each other and with Lazaris. The love they had for Lazaris was very evident. Actually, I met them in the hotel restaurant, but saw them regularly throughout the workshop.

What happened at the October event is what brings me to write. One young woman who was aglow at the millenium party and part of that group was chosen to have magic time with Lazaris. I was thrilled to see her again and was prepared to witness an exciting magic time with her as I was part of the group she was in. At first it was ok but then Lazaris started to say something about her relationship with her mother and recommended that she distance herself from her as her thinking was all wrong. I found it odd because her mother was also at the millenium party and part of that group, so it's obvious that Lazaris knows her mother as well, as do probably many in the audiance. It made me uncomfortable to see and hear the way and what Lazaris said, and I recall clearly that the young woman was upset at what Lazaris had to say. It's not too uncommon that a person would be upset to hear what Lazaris had to say at a magic time, as I've seen it before, but what made me most uncomfortable was the fact that I had witnessed the abuse in the forum of these people and it seemed to me that "Lazaris" took the opportunity of magic time to denounce this young woman and her mother in front of 3 or 400 people, many of whom were aware of what happened in the forum months earlier.

Was this done by "Lazaris" "Jach" to make a point?! It was an "odd" experience that has been bothering me ever since. In my honest opinion, Lazaris was "strangely" very hard on this young woman. Odd.

As for the rest, I'm glad to have found this site and to see that Katie and Ted are doing better than I would after their experience in the forum and fully support them in what they are doing here. I hope that young woman and her mother are doing as well. I know the mother left the forum and I'm not sure about the daughter. I left soon after and have no intention of attending another workshop until my heart/mind is clear on what happened at the one in October. It had profound effect on me and I've been uneasy about Lazaris ever since. After reading here, I know that I am not alone and feel supported in what I sensed, even though I didn't want it to be true. It's just that when you put it altogether it doesn't add up to any real love or magic but "manipulation."

Thank you for your time in reading and any comments and opinions will be welcome. I commend you all for your courage and honesty in all I've read here, for I know from my own experience how hard this is.

With love,

Wiser Crone

Your account of what happened at the October event chills me to the bone. Manipulation it certainly was, and a very cruel one at that.

After seeing a series of smaller examples of out and out control, I decided that Lazaris was not all the good he (they) had seemed to be. Whether Jach or Lazaris—it didn't matter. He (they) was clearly not without hidden, self-serving motives of some kind. Even listening to one of my hundreds of tapes made me nauseous after that realization. The trust was shattered and there has been a very unpleasant period of readjustment and mourning for me. I'm almost on the other side of it at this point.

Thanks for posting this story. It convinces me further that I made the right choice.

Thank you so much for writing about this experience.

you wrote:

[[At first it was ok but then Lazaris started to say something about her relationship with her mother and recommended that she distance herself from her as her thinking was all wrong]]

Shocking. Repugnant. Remember the Lazaris that would rather shrink back into the ethers rather than tell another consciousness what to do? Who used to make "suggestions" and never got angry if they went unfollowed? Some "friend".

Look this is just reviling. Her thinking was wrong? What are they now the friggin moonies?? Whats next "assigned families"?

He might have well opened this womans chest with a rusty knife, it would have been more kind.

you wrote:

[[it seemed to me that "Lazaris" took the opportunity of magic time to denounce this young woman and her mother in front of 3 or 400 people, many of whom were aware of what happened in the forum months earlier.]]

Just for clarification as I can hardly believe my eyes, you are saying that Jachzaris actually told this woman to distance herself from her mother because her thinking was wrong based on the forum incident? He then went on to speak derisively to the young woman about herself?
Were there any dire projections of what her life would be like if she didnt dump her mother?

I think what we must be dealing with here is a progressive pyschosis that is now utterly pathological. The desire to hurt and destroy we have seen in the forum repeatedly [ I was a member until two days ago] is obviously just the tip of a very ugly black berg of ice.

It is clear to me that Peny North is one miserable minor spark of love. All that love makes you defensive, hostile, greedy, pathological and morbidly obese??

What you are writing here is so sad.

I went to an intensive in September, the first one I attended in a few years. I didn't notice anything strange in the way Lazaris talked to people then.. but I was
franticly trying to not notice a great many things.

I hope that anyone else who has heard "Lazaris" do or say anything similar feels comfortable enough [I say enough because it will never feel great] to write about it.

I really feel better about nixing the personal consultation I had scheduled for April, which until Saturday I was going to go ahead with anyway despite my lingering doubts.

Thank you for your courage and for your honesty.

Best,

You wrote:
[[Even listening to one of my hundreds of tapes made me nauseous after that realization.]]

Boy, I hear you. I keep debating just how many of them to throw out. I was toying with the idea of keeping a few..for posterity [g]

But now I am leaning toward incinerating the whole lot.

Now THATS a spark of love. [s]

You wrote:

[[After seeing a series of smaller examples of out and out control, I decided that Lazaris was not all the good he (they) had seemed to be. Whether Jach or Lazaris—it didn't matter. He (they) was clearly not without hidden, self-serving motives of some kind]]

Can you elaborate on that? if you are comfortable and interested of course, I certainly am.

Best,

At this point I am still uncomfortable speaking about specifics of my experience w/ C/S at a public site. No offense—just hesitant to let my identity be potentially more available.

I have really enjoyed your posts, though, and admire your courage in fearlessly revealing so much about yourself. I think in your first post you described your exit from the Forum and then let it be known that "visitors" would immediately know who you are through this. I was quite impressed—and felt a bit sheepish about my hesitations.

Thank you very much for your response to my post. This has been nagging me since October and any and all comments will aid in settling my initial discomfort either way. Either I was right to feel discomfort or I was wrong. So far it seems I was right.

"Lazaris'" just seemed to add unnecessary suggestions re: the mother and it didn't add up right. I spoke to other friends at the workshop who felt the same way but where I had met these people in December, I felt a bit more sensitive to what was said.

Thank you again and I hope this helps but doesn't cause you any additional feelings of distress.

With love,

Welcome and thanks for your posts.
You said, " This has been nagging me since October and any and all comments will aid in settling my initial discomfort either way. Either I was right to feel discomfort or I was wrong. So far it seems I was right."

I had a forum experince that was "nagging" me for almost five years. Now I'm learning to trust myself much more when it comes to "cognitive dissonance" which is the feeling that something is not right. It's much more dangerous to attempt to ignore those feelings than trust that our instincts. But I sure do understand how it happens.

Because we all gave Lazaris our trust and respected his authority, of course there was inner "dissonance" when the Peny and others on the forum behaved abominally. But we still stuck with Lazaris. Now even that act is deteriorating.

My gut feelings were true, but I rationalized them away, postponing what seems to be a very obvious conclusion now that I'm out of the Lazaris reality-set. Hope these thoughts are helpful.

Welcome and thank you so much for telling this story. I am sick beyond words, these are people I know, love and care about.

Is there a word rotten and filthy enough to address this tactic used by Jachass, Jach the Mind Ripper, Jaczaris? Who is this foul monster?

What is more sacred than the love of a mother for her child? I know these people, I know the incredible love they both have, and share. How dare that cheap side show hustler play this punishing manipulative game? In the name of love, he plays this game. For money and glory he perpetrates this foul scam.

This is punishment and manipulation, plain and simple. To give Peny her vindication Jach would stoop to this?

Thank you for your kind words about us, our little group of fellow travelers who met up during the Millennium Intensive. We were in love, with Lazaris, and with each other, and with the promise and faith we had in our futures as Magicians and Map Makers. To hell with those who found us to be silly or adolescent. We were believers, strong and true, and this is where our belief brought us, into a sense of comraderie, support, commitment, and caring for each other. Our desire was to take the energy of the Intensive back with us, build on it, and support each other in our mutual growth. For that we were trashed, insulted, and worst of all, manipulated to be turned against each other.

Can anyone imagine the pain and confusion we all felt? Loyalties were put on the rack, our love and caring for each other was degraded and demeaned, our joy was ridiculed.

Can anyone imagine the pain of this mother, to have her daugher publicly manipulated and turned against her? Why? Because she didn't cave in to the Forum? Because she didn't denounce her friends as she was being pressured to do? This woman is the essence of loyalty. She is an honorable person, a loyal friend and a loving mother. Damn those contemptuous bastards straight to hell, Jach and Peny, who wouldn't know love if it smacked them in the face.

And the daughter, the sweet, sincere and innocent one, whose faith and belief is being ruthlessly exploited, I pray for her and send my unwavering love. She is forever in my heart.

Thank you so much for noticing and understanding. That means so much to me.

And, thank you more for coming to the defense of this mother and her daughter, two beautiful people with hearts full of love, and nothing but a desire for the highest and best in life.

That those two bit, low lifed, unconscionable hustlers could exploit people like this makes me sick and angry beyond words. And for what? For money..glory...adulation? What price the love and respect of a daughter for her mother? And there is love and respect there.

This use of Magic Time has been bothering me greatly for awhile now. Is this example litigatable?

What price is Jach willing to extract from true believers in his continued quest to vindicate and prop up that huge piece of dirt he married?

This just tops everything. I have to stop writing.

Love and gratitude to you Wiser Crone, thanks for telling this story.

Katie

Thank you very much for writing and please allow me to clarify a couple of things as I want to be as completely clear and fair as I can be.

I took notes, planning to give them to the woman but stopped short when Lazaris' suggestions didn't feel right.

You wrote: "Look this is just reviling. Her thinking was wrong? What are they now the friggin moonies?? Whats next "assigned families"?

He might have well opened this womans chest with a rusty knife, it would have been more kind."

The girl had been talking about struggle and Lazaris said that she was struggling because she wanted to make her mother right; that her mother's thinking was all wrong and that she should distance herself from her. The expression on this young woman's face broke my heart and I could feel her shock and pain.
To me there was a belittling tone in Lazaris' voice. Even I was shocked.

You wrote: "Just for clarification as I can hardly believe my eyes, you are saying that Jachzaris actually told this woman to distance herself from her mother because her thinking was wrong based on the forum incident? He then went on to speak derisively to the young woman about herself?
Were there any dire projections of what her life would be like if she didnt dump her mother?"

It's my "sense" that he took this opportunity to say this as it was cruel and unexpected, which led me to feel that it had to do with what happened in the forum. That feeling was very potent, not only to me. The forum incident was not actually stated, but the answer seemed exaggerated and unnecessary. I've heard Lazaris say similar things to others but this was odd because he knew the mother and what happened in the forum and there seemed to me to be a little extra oomph to the answer. He also suggested that if she didn't distance herself from her mother, she would have a lifetime of struggle as her mother's thinking was wrong. Also, something about did she want to have that on her gravestone.

It was odd. And it's a nagging feeling I've had ever since.

I was a member of the forum, too, and I read a few posts that encouraged severing family ties. In fact, some were praised for doing it. I know that there indeed are some family ties that should be severed, but my take on this one was that it was not one of those abusive situations.

You wrote: "I went to an intensive in September, the first one I attended in a few years. I didn't notice anything strange in the way Lazaris talked to people then.. but I was
franticly trying to not notice a great many things"

If I hadn't met these people and if I didn't see what happened in Forum Storm, I would have still felt some discomfort with the "magical answer" but would have accepted that something was wrong with this mother/daughter relationship, as there is always something "wrong" in any mother/daughter relationship. It's being aware of what happened in the forum and knowing that they were known by "Lazaris" that made me stop and think. Odd.

Why would a loving "Lazaris" humiliate and denounce this way? If the mother was there it might not have seemed so profoundly deceptive and opportunistic.

You wrote: "I think what we must be dealing with here is a progressive pyschosis that is now utterly pathological. The desire to hurt and destroy we have seen in the forum repeatedly [ I was a member until two days ago] is obviously just the tip of a very ugly black berg of ice."

I have to agree with you. And this, too, is sad. You are also right in that it doesn't feel great to write about this at all. I also hope that others will feel comfortable "enough" to write.

With love,

Wiser Crone (wiser?) (sadder) (angrier)

A warm welcome to you!

Thank you for coming forward with this story. I am in shock. I never thought they would stoop that low. I won't even try to express my anger about this until I can do it in a civilized manner.

This mother and daughter are two of the most wonderful, loving, dedicated, loyal, sweet, caring people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. This is by far the most unconscionable thing I've heard yet about Jachshit. (Sorry, that leaked out).

It's very difficult to believe that it hasn't had an impact on the other attendees. How hypnotized does one need to be to accept this crap? Map-makers, indeed!

You wrote: [[Either I was right to feel discomfort or I was wrong.]]

You were right. You're human, how can you not feel discomfort at someone trying to tear a family apart? Some have mentioned that C:S doesn't act as a cult because they don't the usual cult things such as alienating people from their families. Obviously, they're not above doing that either.

Peny has stated in the Forum that she has no respect for family ties. How fortunate that she never had a child!

I really hope that the mother and daughter can get see their way through this.

Thank you and yes, your post has been very helpful to me. Yes it was my gut feeling and though I don't know these people personally, I "felt" the wrongness of it just by having met them.

I dont' think I gave all that trust to Lazaris but I wanted to, if that makes sense. My intuition is usually very strong and what it does for me is hold me back from giving in completely. Thankfully. I kept a part of myself at bay because what I tried to rationalize has always kept nagging doubt in the forefront of my mind. The trouble is it takes a long time to know why.

Thank you very much for writing and you have been very helpful.

With love,

Wiser Crone

Yes, you do know them. You were all together when I met you in that restaurant and I often think back to that time with fondness. And the dancing in the lobby on New Year's Eve! There was a great amount of fun and joy in all of you that whole weekend and it was contagious. I caught it!

And no thanks are necessary for mentioning your group; it is something I should have done to help in Forum Storm, but I admit I was scared to come forth as I hadn't been a member of the forum for long. But I knew what happened was wrong, which is what led me to leave shortly thereafter. I am very sorry that I didn't help you then.

That girl that wrote about you and your friends got back as good as she put out.
I can't recall specifics but I do recall "cheering" when she did. So did my friends.

And yes, I can imagine how awful it must have been for you because it was very evident that you enjoyed each other tremendously. The disappointment must have been just as "tremendous."

Katie, in all honesty, I didn't see myself as coming in defense of your friends, but I "felt" something and needed my own clarification on it. I came here selfishly seeking understanding of what I saw and "felt" was not right, and what I've gotten back is love and support and encouragement to trust my "gut feelings." But I am very sorry that this has brought you such pain and am very grateful that you and your husband created this site. This site gives what I expected the forum to offer.

Katie, if she were my daughter, I would be devastated and outraged to know to know that she was being manipulated by someone to whom she gave her total love and trust. And how would you handle such a situation? My God, it's hard enough to see someone you love in a physically abusive situation; how would you handle one with a "loving non-physical entity like "Lazaris????"

You said: "Can anyone imagine the pain of this mother, to have her daugher publicly manipulated and turned against her? Why? Because she didn't cave in to the Forum? Because she didn't denounce her friends as she was being pressured to do? This woman is the essence of loyalty. She is an honorable person, a loyal friend and a loving mother. Damn those contemptuous bastards straight to hell, Jach and Peny, who wouldn't know love if it smacked them in the face."

Katie, it's this very fact that brought me to the "sense" that "Lazaris" took the opportunity when he had it. Some of what was said is right out of psychology and has some truth to it, but because of the "exaggeration" and the fact that your friends were known by Lazaris and some in the audiance, and having seen Forum Storm, I and a few others felt sickened by it. It was just too odd to feel ok about. That's why after finding this site, I took the opportunity to ask for help in clearing my own mind and feelings about it. And everyone has been very helpful, in more ways than one.

Be well, Katie, and I hope your friends are just as well. You have all been in my and some friends thoughts often. I've already told them about your site and they look forward to coming here.

Thank you so much.

With love,

Wiser Crone

Thank you for your warm welcome and it's great to be here! I've read some amazing posts and the overwhelming feeling is WOW with a breath of relief.

You said: "Peny has stated in the Forum that she has no respect for family ties. How fortunate that she never had a child!"

I read some of these posts there and I'm not above admitting that these influenced my reaction to "Lazaris'" response to your friend. They influenced after the shock of hearing the "magical answer" and seeing that young woman's expression. A few of my friends and I discussed it in our room and we all came to the same unsettling conclusion, but not wanting to put it in the direct words of "tearing a family apart." None of us have gone back and I admit that I don't see us going to another workshop again. The tapes have lost their appeal as well. A "wow" of a different caliber.

Thank you for writing and helping to clear what has been bothering my friends and I for quite awhile.

With love,

Wiser Crone

God bless your beautiful, beautiful heart, Wiser Crone! Thank you so much for sharing this story with us. I can't begin to tell you just how deeply affected I am by this. It's hard for me to contain the tears as I write for what happened in the "magic time" was totally unexcusable and unconscionable.

You wrote [[ If I hadn't met these people and if I didn't see what happened in Forum Storm, I would have still felt some discomfort with the "magical answer" but would have accepted that something was wrong with this mother/daughter relationship, as there is always something "wrong" in any mother/daughter relationship. It's being aware of what happened in the forum and knowing that they were known by "Lazaris" that made me stop and think. Odd. ]]

That's one of the things that really piss me off. Because you were aware, but what about those who weren't there, who have no opportunity to read the threads or posts now because they have all been removed.

That was one of the incidents that triggered my feeling that something was very, very wrong that went beyond communicating or personal opinions or even the issue of abuse. It smelled like the rotting carcass of censorship, deception, cover up and slander.

Because now in the Forum they can and do, every so often, refer to Ted and Katie as bullies and make remarks on their character and spiritual integrity, but no one can go back and find out for themselves what happened or come to their own conclusions.

The thought of this happening is sickening, but I am so grateful for the sense of release, empowerment and validation this knowledge is giving me. The conviction I am doing the right thing is strengthened even more.

Bless you Wiser Crone, and thank you so much.

Love,
Seeker

You wrote:

[[At this point I am still uncomfortable speaking about specifics of my experience w/ C/S at a public site. No offense—just hesitant to let my identity be potentially more available.]]

I understand and certainly no offense taken, I am grateful you shared what you did. I hope you didn't/don't feel pressured.

You wrote:

[[I have really enjoyed your posts, though, and admire your courage in fearlessly revealing so much about yourself. I think in your first post you described your exit from the Forum and then let it be known that "visitors" would immediately know who you are through this. I was quite impressed—and felt a bit sheepish about my hesitations.]]

Your hesitation are completely understandable and nothing to be sheepish about..IMHO..but thank you for your comments they mean alot to me.

Cheers,

This is just appalling.

What happened to "nothing changes until you do"? The old "Lazaris" would never have told her to create her reality by distancing herself from another unless of course, they were being abused.

This is clearly not the case. The diagnosis was a problem with struggle right? Well, the old Lazaris would have said deal with the part of you that is still a child in your relationship with your mother.

The old "Lazaris" would have been quick to emphasize that it was HER struggle that needed to be dealt with, not her mothers. This was something she may have learned as a child, but she is holding on now for her own reasons.

There would be no way to hold on to the I am a strong magician mentality and act like a weakling who cannot be around someone whose thinking is "wrong"

[[To me there was a belittling tone in Lazaris' voice. Even I was shocked]]

Yah, shocking. I wonder if the whole thing is imploding and they are starting to crack. Maybe they cannot hold it together anymore. They are, after all, human and the conscience how ever buried must start to grumble now and then.

Speaking of which, has anyone heard an utterance from the Great Toxic One Pennywise North in recent months?

Who knows, maybe she is planning an offshore escape..

[[He also suggested that if she didn't distance herself from her mother, she would have a lifetime of struggle as her mother's thinking was wrong. Also, something about did she want to have that on her gravestone]]

Lovely, so much for creating your own reality. Its just evil, I cannot think of another word for it.

Thanks again for writing about this.

Cheers,

You asked if anyone has heard anything from the Great Shining Light Bulb Ms. Peny.

What's up with that? Is she MIA?

For all we know she could be dead. Even that would be kept a secret from us, I'm sure.

I wonder if the Stellar One is ill? Or should I say, too ill to start any trouble?

Very interesting, I wonder if anyone knows what's up.

I like what you said about "proportion." You wrote, "One of the most distressing and sadly comical aspects of the Forum and those angerpods that run it is that they have no sense of proportion, every minor manipulation is addressed as a major assault."

That is so true. In fact not even a "minor manipulation" is necessary. Just a different point of view, or a comment that can be twisted into the most negative interpretation possible. Forget any dialogue to get clear on meaning. You're already toast.

This out of proportion reaction is obviously controlling. "Lazaris" is not the only one to make the connection between fear and the need to control. The forum is running on fear, starting with Peny and the Jachel's fear that,"all things hidden will be revealed" (a biblical quote I read in the paper this morning).

You said, "In the beginning of my forum days, I used to laugh when I would read some of this shit. Someone would do the most innocous thing and another would write back "You hurt me!! take responsibility!" and the gang would jump in with their deconstruction. It was predictable and only hysterically funny until you saw the bloodied mess on the floor after they were done."

Aside from knowing first hand how shattering that "deconstuction" can be (I use shattering, and I mean shattering internally), forum members yelling about "hurt and responsibility" never cop to their own martyr, blame, or their responsibility for letting in the reality of being targeted by the supposed offender. Instead there is an immediate rush to domination (remind me of a certain fish swimming in these parts). You'd think that "Lazaris's" pal, Peny, would be exemplifying "dominion" par excellence. No, domination is her shtick. So there's lots of fear there. The kind of fear that points to weakness. Good to remember, because this woman's intent is to project an image of power. But she is not a powerful person. The only power she has is what people give up to her under the deceitful illusion that she is L's special starlet.

Another thing Jeremiah. You refer to the "old Lazaris" as if he was somehow lost to a later version. I just think he was more careful, and more into his act. Now Jach is bolder. A lot of people have been so "hooked" for so long, he's not nervous about being sloppy. Look how easy it is to quash dissent on the forum. I think it's important to remember that it was the "old L" who seduced us into this confidence game.

Also, about 10 years ago,I witnessed a mother and daughter, I know personally, together during "magic time"."Lazaris" told the daughter that her mother was a "bitch" in reference to some childhood events. I thought that was unnecessarily harsh no matter what the mother had done. But since it was coming from Lazaris I assumed he had good reason to speak to the daughter that way. He got away with a lot because of the trust and authority given to him.

Your posts usually stimulate a lot of thought for me.

Lorca (Jade)

Thank you for your very kind words. I felt I was being selfish in writing because I wanted to settle my own unease about what happened, but I see that this has been a revelation for everyone. It's also been validation for my own intuition, and I'm sure others who were there.

You said: "That's one of the things that really piss me off. Because you were aware, but what about those who weren't there, who have no opportunity to read the threads or posts now because they have all been removed."

I very much agree with you. What about the people who weren't there and have no access to the truth of what happened? That's a pathetic maneuver by people with something to hide!

You say that what I shared has helped you and that makes me very happy. What you and everyone else has shared here has helped me more than I know how to recount and the feeling of peace I have is worth every uncomfortable fear I had before I wrote.

With love,

Wiser Crone

It was appalling and obnoxious. I would have to add abusive as well. Not something you'd expect from a wise and loving spiritual being.

You said: "The old "Lazaris" would have been quick to emphasize that it was HER struggle that needed to be dealt with, not her mothers. This was something she may have learned as a child, but she is holding on now for her own reasons."

That's why those additonal comments were unnecessary and profoundly shocking and why I thought it was ODD.

You said: "There would be no way to hold on to the I am a strong magician mentality and act like a weakling who cannot be around someone whose thinking is "wrong""

You're right! What about the empowered magician that we were we have been working towards becoming? I'm glad I've held onto some doubt over the years and feel now that my intuition shielded me even while I questioned and "wanted" to believe as undoubtingly as the others.

Thank you for your posts. I appreciate them here and enjoy reading all you write.

With love,

Wiser Crone

I hope you both are reading here, and know how much I love and respect you both.

I have witnessed the love and respect you share for each other, and I have basked in the beauty of it.

I love you both, and with every word I write here, with every intention I have had in creating and participating in the evolution of this site, I have thought of you.

I have so much faith and belief in your true love for each other, and for the wisdom, intelligence, passion, self-respect and love I have seen you exhibit and share with each other and others.

You are both forever in my heart, and my most cherished dream is for a true peace between you, and a resolution of this terrible conflict which has been imposed on both of you.

From my deepest desire I wish you both peace and the true freedom to love each other with no restricions or doubts.

All my love,

Katie

An additional consideration for me is that Isis Rising has been selling some of my jewelry pieces from the back table for the past five years. I am looking forward to the return of my unsold consignment jewelry, which I have requested in writing. Then I will be completely free of any ties to an organization that I believe to be operating under false pretenses, and causing a lot of damage.

I appreciate all of you here on this message board. What a strange way to be brought together! But here we are and I'm very thankful for that. Reading your posts and writing mine has made a huge difference to me during a turbulent time. What a gift after years of wondering about disparities that that didn't make sense. It is really wonderful to watch others clear themselves of the distressing experiences encountered through Con:Synergy, and exchange information about puzzling incongruities. Bringing light to the darkness is uplifting, liberating and the loving thing to do.

Love to all of you,

Jade

I had just sent Katie an email stating that I was feeling stronger and stronger about using my real name. Then I came here and read your post. What a beautiful name and how well it fits your energy. Jade is a cherished stone in China and you are certainly cherished here. Your posts have been very meaningful and special to me.

So you sold jewelry through Isis Rising? Amazing!

I am Demian, a human rights activist and singer/songwriter.

My URL is [url]http://www.keepingthedream.com [/url]. This is what I do and who I am.

Funny how I should be committed to not only finding my voice and using it but helping others to do the same, and yet, one of the hardest things to do was to voice my opinion here and ask my questions about Lazaris. There was so much fear and trepidation surrounding that. And that's what pisses me off.

I think it was my human rights framework that made it harder and harder for me to witness the human rights abuses that occured in the Forum. But that I had to ask myself what was going on, doubt myself and not recognize and respond immediately is really scarey. I still can't believe that kind of hold over me.

I respect the rights of others to keep private their real identities, but for me as for you it is time to share who we are. We are all doing that as we write our thoughts and feelings regardless whether we share our real names or not. This is just another way.

I will be expanding my site to include a broader range of human rights - freedom of thought and information about mind control - in addition to the focus on human rights in China. This has become very, very important to me.

Blessings to you and everyone here,
Demian,
DreamSinger

Let's try again.

www.keepingthedream.com

Wow woman! I rejoice in your release!

Thank you for sharing who you are. Anonymity is a fine thing, but it has it's limitations.

Now you can share so much more with us about who you are, what you do, and what happened to you in the Forum.

Do you mind if we talk about that?

Also, now we can all get to check out your absolutely gorgeous jewelry. Please feel free to post your link. I hope all goes well and smoothly with the return of your creations from Isis Rising.

Your "coming out" post is beautiful, these two lines stood out for me:

"I chose this thread for my post because I too am a Wiser Crone."

Thank you for standing up and saying that. I consider myself to be a "Baby Crone", one who is just in the process of growing into the pride and understanding the responsibility of the "Wise Crone". This isn't about age, it's about maturity. This role has been sadly missing from our society, and I rejoice that there are those of us who are now standing up to reclaim it.
It is an honored role, and a necessary one, I believe.

"Bringing light to the darkness is uplifting, liberating and the loving thing to do."

Yes, and I am uplifted, liberated, and so grateful for your love in doing it.

Lots of love,

Oh more joy joy joy! Thank you too for standing up.

"I am Demian, a human rights activist and singer/songwriter."

There is something so lovely to me in the way you state that. It feels majestic.

And, what a singer/songwriter you are. I am so happy that now others here can experience your very special talent. I have visited your site just to hear your calming and soulful music in several of my more difficult moments, and it has never failed to touch my heart and lift my spirits. I don't think anyone will argue with me that your music is a gift.

"Funny how I should be committed to not only finding my voice and using it but helping others to do the same, and yet, one of the hardest things to do was to voice my opinion here and ask my questions about Lazaris. There was so much fear and trepidation surrounding that. And that's what pisses me off."

This is a process that we no doubt are all in different stages of experiencing. I have seen a great opening of spirit here. Most intitial posts or emails we have received were timid, even fearful. So much is changing, and changing quickly. I know how hard my heart was pounding when we put up this site and as we sat here waiting to see what would evolve. What joy is evolving, far beyond my wildest dreams.

I look forward to hearing more about your human rights work, and feel honored that you plan to include our site as a part of it.

I also hope that our group synergy here spills over into that. So much of what is happening here is very much about human rights also, our human right to think freely and to form our own beliefs.

Blessings to you too Demian.

Thank you for sharing your very special voice.

Lots of love,

Thank you all so much for all you wrote here. You have touched me deeply and the sensitivity and caring that you've shown goes far beyond what words could ever express.

I think it's only right that I write here today and let you know that my daughter and I are just great. She is a most beautiful, sincere, and joyous Spark of Light and we love each other very much and enjoy each other's company. Our relationship is positive and strong, and "normal" and as respectful as any loving relationship can be.

Wiser Crone, what you wrote is all true. I wasn't there but soon knew what Lazaris had said. You were very observant and sensitive and I'm grateful for that. It was indeed an emotionally upsetting time and I saw my daughter ride that horrible roller-coaster of emotion and doubt but worse, I heard it in her voice and saw it in her eyes. Was I angry??? YES!!!......Am I still??? YES but not emotionally outraged now...we've dealt with it well and continue to do so.

Do I think it may have been the child in her having the problem? Absolutely. It's not easy to be adult "alllll the time." Did I have a belief in struggle? You bet I did, especially when my kids were home. Do I now? Sure and sometimes I even act on it! It seems to me that some at C:S are in some kind of struggle right now...maybe even reacting from their "child?" :-O.....no further comment here.

All that I've read here has brought me to tears again and again remembering the hurt in my daughter's voice after that time with Lazaris, while working to "rationalize" and "be strong" for me! She thought I'd be hurt by what he said about me. I wasn't hurt by what he said about me; I was royally pissed! I knew then that Lazaris said my thinking is all wrong because of what happened in the forum, because it didn't make any goddamn sense to say it at all. I cried then for my daughter's pain, and was angry as hell at Lazaris because there was no reason for him to go on like that. Yes there really was a weirdness to it........damn it!!!!! (so much for saying my anger isn't emotional)

All that was said about our Millenium Celebration is also true. We were one helluva happy bunch in love with each other and Lazaris. We were so happy to be there, Magicians "re-united" and getting to know each other with the promise of loving and being loved by God/Goddess/All That Is and doing magical work together. We were dedicated to the Spirit of why we were there and dedicated to keeping it alive and growing. Due to the Forum Storm we had to take a detour, but I can feel that same energy of dedication on this path to truth and goodness here now.

Katie said: "I hope you both are reading here, and know how much I love and respect you both."

I read here, Katie, she doen't. (And for anyone lurking who needs to know, I don't try to force my doubts onto my daughter so there is no need for paranoia or judgement on your part on her! She is far intelligent enough to make her own educated choices. Because of the beauty that is in her being, I recognize and "remember" that the true part of the Lazaris energy is what she responds to. We all responded to it.) And Katie,I most certainly do know how much you love and respect us!! And I hope you know how much I love and respect you and Ted right back. And I love what you said about your grandmother saying, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Katie: "You are both forever in my heart, and my most cherished dream is for a true peace between you, and a resolution of this terrible conflict which has been imposed on both of you."

Katie, she might be beautiful and innocent but she isn't stupid by a long-shot!:-) She doesn't read here, but she's not blinded by anything that goes on and our love is strong and durable and she knows me, just as I know her. The Universe is on our side and Truth will win out, I have NO doubt!

I also have two other great "adult" kids that I adore and are just as wonderful and smart. My oldest daughter has been very supportive and I have leaned on her. She has strong shoulders and wisdom beyond her years.:-) I'm trusting in the Universe that all will continue to be well...."even better than before." :-)

Thank you both and thank you to all.

All my love to all of you from,

One VERY Proud Mother

I loved visiting your site, it has a pleasing enrgy and those stars are fun. I was happily surprised to find your beautiful photo. I have to do more exploring there soon. My younger daughter is expecting a baby any day (to be delivered at home) so there is a lot of unaccustomed activity at my house.

Sounds like we are on a similar wavelength, I was feeling that when reading your previous posts. I too have a very strong interest in human rights, mostly expressed in writing. It's that compelling desire to communicate the importance of nuturing personal dignity in a world that has other priorities.

You said, "Funny how I should be committed to not only finding my voice and using it but helping others to do the same, and yet, one of the hardest things to do was to voice my opinion here and ask my questions about Lazaris. There was so much fear and trepidation surrounding that. And that's what pisses me off."

I know just what you mean. Sometimes being pissed off at fear and intimidation is a healthy dynamic in finding and expressing ourselves.

I'm going to post my site under the "Crystals, Talismans, etc." thread in the next day or two. I hope to have a picture of myself on it soon, I'm wanting to make it more personal. I'll email you when I revisit your site.

Love,
Jade

I'm sorry to hear this sad and maddening story of what you and your daughter have been through. One of my daughters was working with the Lazaris Material for as many years (14) as I did. We are both through with it, but I can imagine what a wretched experience that was for the two of you. Hurray for how you handled it. Real love and good sense helped you two to get beyond what could have really messed up a less solid relationship. Glad to have you here on the message board.

Love, Jade

Welcome and thanks for the kind words.

You should be proud - you have a wonderful daughter. And you're wonderful yourself.

Please don't feel any pressure to post anything that makes you feel uncomfortable or even to respond to us.

I know that the Love that you and your daughter have for each other can withstand any obstacle those users in Orlando can put in your way. You're right, the Truth will win out.

I honor and congratulate you both. A new level of Freedom! There has been quite a bit of that here recently. It's a joy to see.

Jade, I'm happy to hear you'll be posting your site in the Crystals, Talismans, etc. It'll be nice to have of these other areas of the site getting some activity.

Demian, your website and your music is beautiful. Certainlt Freedom of Mind is an important Human Rights issue. Thanks for all your work.

It's great to have you both here, under any name[g].

Thank you for your courage. I have alot of reasons for not using my real name yet but I really respect and admire you for doing so.

You certainly have every reason to be proud...which is more than what Jach, Peny and the gangsters can say about themselves and their aggregious behavior.

My heart sings for you and the love you share with your daughter. This isn't a given - this is something you two created together, your love for one another.

Love,
Demian DreamSinger

You wrote [[ I felt I was being selfish in writing because I wanted to settle my own unease about what happened, but I see that this has been a revelation for everyone. It's also been validation for my own intuition, and I'm sure others who were there. ]]

Oh, yes, and not only a validation for your own intuition and others who were there but for many others who are still struggling with their own individual doubts and questionings. I think one of the things that is most insidious about a relationship with "Lazaris" is the gradual erosion of trust in your own senses, instincts and intuition while supposedly building them!

There's certainly nothing wrong with meeting your needs - especially when it's done from a clean and authentic place such as yours. That is evident in not only how much you were gifted by your decision to do so, but how many others were as well.

Thank you for this gift and I look forward to more sharing and growing together.

Love,
Demian DreamSinger