Thank you SO much for your Lazaris cult busting web site -- !

I migrated to the Lazaris Material in 1984 after the death of Jane Roberts and the resulting end of the Seth Material.

Like you, my faith in the far flung personal evolution of this Peny Prestini, now "Peny North" was finally shattered in the absolutely bizzare Lazaris "Forum" chat room. Though, I got in when it was less armored and apparently hired 'dog pile' dominated, on the old Compuserve public "chat".

IMO: the woman is nearing 100% behavioral toxicity and she is doing profound soul damage to very many people now. Perhaps, like the twisted emperor in Jedi, she won't hold her current position long -- not with healing, strong people willing to rebel and say a loud, clean: NO!

People go "too far" when it appears clear there is likely no way they will admit to any severe human damage they have inflicted or are inflicting.

Thank God for your site! As in The Wizard Of Oz -- as word spreads with honesty, humanity, and felt openness -- more will indeed wake up and demand their power -- both financial and spiritual -- BACK!

I know a *great deal* of first-hand detail about the MLM "opportunity" in which Peny Prestini (her last name before she changed it -- right after the MLM fell completely appart) attracted -- and never worked to refund (as far as I an aware) -- the invested money of many Lazaris "true believers" -- after she made a *very* publically proclaimed "pot".

The truth told here will heal many -- and set us all more spiritually free.

It would be great if we could form group "synergy" of our own, not to destroy Peny (she, what -- should be.. immense internalized social shame, and her refrigerator appear to have that very sadly -- well in hand); but: to afirm our anger and our resolve to succeed spiritually -- despite, IMO the unspeakable spiritual and financial violence dumped hard on us by this behaviorally monsterous woman.

Yes, IMO -- a very sadly accurate adjective for Peny, Ted: parasite.

Thank you both again -

I live in the San Francisco area and would love to get together with others who are growing to see the big Concept:Synergy picture more clearly. Perhaps we can help one another point out significant, as yet unseen major cracks in the crock -- as it's contents begin to spill over the pop metaphysical landscape a-la Werner Erhard on 60 Minutes, L. Ron, etc.

Isn't standing tall fun?

:0)
Steve

Well, don't hold back! LOL.

It seems that you have a lot to share with us. I've been hoping that someone would come along who could fill us in on some details of the MLM days, and also Compuserve.

The Forum "dog pile" as you call them still refer to Compuserve problems, but never provide any details. I have always suspected that there was less control there and it drove the Gangsters crazy that people could speak freely with no recourse. It would be interesting to know what exactly people said on Compuserve that was so upsetting. I can only imagine all those "negative egos" running around unchecked and unpunished. Oh my, it must have been terrible!

You seem to have more recollection of Peny's participation in the MLM, the stories I have heard were about Jach, with sidebars of Peny's flamboyant and dramatic arrivals at the meetings, making grand entrances and a big show of her expensive cars, antagonizing and alientating everyone along the way. So, do fill us in please. We are all ears. Every piece of the puzzle helps.

I have to agree that Peny's behavior can only be described as toxic, and I wonder about her longevity also.

Speaking personally, I am not interested in discussing Peny's weight, per se. I'm not a small person myself, and I certainly don't want to be judged soley on my body type. I think we have lots more to discuss about Peny than her dress size.

I will say though, that given my own battles with the bulge, there is a point of weight gain that is simply unhealthy. I have come to my own conclusion that excess weight beyond a certain point is most definitely a manifestation of depression or repression. This is a huge topic though, and not really the focus of this group.

My mention of Peny's appearance on the website was for descriptive and informational purposes, the same as one writing about Tammy Faye Baker would be hard put to ignore the overly dramatic and tasteless makeup. Peny's appearance is, as I said on the site, remarkable, so I remarked.
But, I am no judge of someone's state of physical health. I know enough about Peny's state of mental health to confine my opinions to that topic. You of course, are free to draw your own conclusions and state your thoughts as they come.

You are so correct in stating that Peny shows no indication of ever being responsible for the pain and damage she causes others. We had a report recently of a witnessed public humiliation and abuse of a staff member. One really has to wonder how much people are willing to put up with before starting to ask questions or better yet, stand up and speak up. We do hope this website will be a catalyst for some to do just that. There is a lot that needs to be revealed about the ugly underbelly of the "Lazaris" phenomenon.

One point I would like to make too is that somehow Jach's participation in all this ugly mess seems to get lost in the glare of Peny's blatently ugly personality. Jach is right there, he is providing her with the vehicle to drive over everyone who is unfortunate enough to get in her way. Jach and Peny are full and complete partners in all of this, so I hold Jach fully and completly as responsible as I do Peny. I just hate it that he gets away with perpetuating this sham identity of his. He is not sweet, loving, gentle, kind, or any of the above in my experience. He's as nasty a piece of work as she is, he's just a better PR person, but that's his real business isn't it?

As to revealing your identity, that too is up to you, but remember, we live in a country which protects our right to free speech. We can state our opinions, observations and experiences with no fear of legal retribution. What we cannot do is infringe on copyright laws, or commit slander or libel.

I do encourage you, and all those reading along to do your own research on what your legal liabilities could be in speaking out about C/S using your own names. Ted and I did the homework and we are satisfied that we are not breaking any laws.

This site is for free expression, and we are all entitled to our opinions, and to state our experiences. We are protected by the Constitution to do so.

C/S on the other hand, especially Jach might not be standing on such firm legal ground. Ex-members from other destructive cults and charasmatic groups have been successful in lawsuits and prosecutions against cult leaders for human rights violations among other things. Hypnotizing someone without their knowledge, programming them, and then emotionally abusing them is a human rights violation. There is a wealth of information to be found on the topic of cults on Steve Hassan's Freedom of Mind site, and other Cult Awareness sites on the Internet.

Our friend here, Malene, is much more informed on this topic, and maybe would be willing to share her own perspective on the "safety" of being public in your criticisms of C/S. I personally believe that it's time to stand up tall and without fear or reservation. That in itself is a powerful statement. But, as always, I leave that to each individual to decide.

Thanks for writing, I have to take off now, but I'll look forward to hearing from you again.

Also, since you are in the area, maybe you'd like to get together sometime? You can email me at katie@cosmicfool.com anytime.

All the best,

Katie

Welcome to the site. Do I detect some anger?[g].

I don't share your joy in anticipating Peny's early demise. Her pain and failure will do nothing to enhance my growth. I would prefer that she live a long and happy life - just not on the backs of others.

From my standpoint, the purpose of this site is to promote and allow healing for those that have been used and abused by Concept: Synergy, not to destroy anyone or even give energy to that end. That does include people voicing their opinions and anger, and, though I don't share your sense of Schadenfreud (feeling joy from someone else's pain), you're certainly free to express it here.

It's up to individuals to decide whether or not to give power to parasites. This site allows for alternative viewpoints and demonstrates that none of us is alone in our analysis of this situation. That in itself is conducive to healing.

For those who choose to remain "Friends of Lazaris", that's totally their business. I would wager that there are some who would continue to believe in "Lazaris" even if Jach and Peny were to publically admit that it's a fraud. There's nothing I can or want to do to change that.

[[Isn't benificent sabotage fun?]]

If what you mean is to sabotage their efforts to gain control of people's Souls, yes. But I want to be clear that I have no desire or intention to sabotage their happiness. "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord" - though I don't think the Lord is vengeful[g].

Having read Ted's post, I did want to say that I see you saying different things than he did. I don't get it that you are wanting to delight in any hurt coming to Peny, other than the possible loss of her "spiritual scam". I would delight in that too.

Maybe Ted's wanting to make sure that we keep things clean here, even when dealing with the C/S monster.

Anyway, I loved your post and have no problem with your expression of anger and hopes for the demise of the Big Scam.

Please don't feel that you need to hold back.

Jach and Peny have placed themselves on a huge pedestal, and I see nothing wrong with taking a few good hard whacks at it. We all have our own feelings about all this and our ways of expressing them.

Personally, I don't want to step over the line of getting into areas which don't concern us all, or which might even get abusive. I don't think you did that though, and like I said, I think your outspokeness is a very good thing.

So, please do know that you are welcomed to speak freely, and I certainly hope you do.

I know that Ted agrees with me on this, but I read that differently in his post, so I thought you might have too.

All the best,

Katie

Yes, I do agree with Katie, that I want people to speak freely. Any and all opinions and thoughts are welcomed. I'm sorry if my post indicated otherwise.

You did make it quite clear that you have no interest in destroying anyone. I'm sorry that I misinterpreted your post. I also have no problem with you or anyone expressing anger here. There certainly is much reason to feel anger.

I read with interest your experience with Jach and Peny outside of Concept Synergy. I'm reading a book by Steven Hassan called "Combating Cult Mind Control", and it's very interesting.

While the Lazaris material in and of itself doesn't contain some of the crucial characteristics of a destructive cult (but does contain others - hypnosis without permission which is deceit for one, and if you believe Lazaris isn't real then fraud for another), I found the Forum exhibiting more cult dynamics with Peny as the central figure.

Steven Hassan writes concerning cults and mind control, "...a good point for information gathering and assessment is leadership. Who is the leader in question? What is his or her life history? What kind of education, training or occupation did he have before starting the group?"

You know, I'm incredulous that I knew absolutely nothing about Jach when I decided to let myself experience the "meditations". Later the information I did get was from their own books and what I knew about Peny was Jach's vouching for the fact that "Peny doesn't lie" at the beginning of the Lazaris videos, and Lazaris' endorsement of her as a particularly beautiful energy.

I really gave both Jach and Lazaris a lot of credit and trust, when I had little if any information about "either" one of them.

But now I want to know, because you know, those meditations are NOT meditations. Reading material on different sites I have come to realize that what they are, infact, are hypnosis sessions. I want to know who I've been letting conduct hynotherapy sessions with/on me under the guise of meditations and blendings.

I look forward to any information you may choose to share. Knowledge is power...and liberating even if not expected or what you might have hoped for. I want to know the truth and not just Concept Synergy PR.

Katie Said: Our friend here, Malene, is much more informed on this topic, and maybe would be willing to share her own perspective on the "safety" of being public in your criticisms of C/S. I personally believe that it's time to stand up tall and without fear or reservation. That in itself is a powerful statement. But, as always, I leave that to each individual to decide.

Ok, lets see my expertise goes to how people can be traced to real life people on the internet, and how to prevent being traced, and what threats are real on the internet, and what threats are just plain and simple folks lore.

If anyone has any questions in regards to general safety and privacy on the internet, I will be happy to answer them...

As for what can, or cant be traced in this forum, well, I do not believe that outsiders can go in and just trace who actually made a post, unless they actually hack into the servers these message boards are on. Hacking into servers is a serious legal offense, and while it is possible for some very technical people to do, it is not something that a lot of people can just go and do.

I do believe there is a way for Katie and Ted to trace who posts on their message boards should they need to. As there is a way to trace anyone who posts on any message boards, email groups, chat rooms etc. The technical expertise to do this would have to be pretty much on my level, which is not that awfully hard to be at.....

As for the Concept synergy, each of you will know much better than I do how far they might go in harrasing, or even hurting someone who speaks out against them. We know that Scientology is really bad in doing this, so is EST and others....While other such groups just get upset, and move on....

I do believe there is healing in standing up and speaking the truth. My own web site is being build as we speak, and should be up soon. I am speaking the truth on that site, and it will be a painful truth for some people. I strongly feel that by speaking out I am working on reestablishing some of those boundaries of mine which were so violated while in the group.

As for legalities of it all... I have no clue actually. In fact, I just might hire a lawyer for an hour before I post my site to make sure what my own rights are, and how to not get in trouble....

I hope this somewhat answers your question Katie :o). I hope you have a nice trip over the weekend...

Seeker said: You know, I'm incredulous that I knew absolutely nothing about Jach when I decided to let myself experience the "meditations". Later the information I did get was from their own books and what I knew about Peny was Jach's vouching for the fact that "Peny doesn't lie" at the beginning of the Lazaris videos, and Lazaris' endorsement of her as a particularly beautiful energy.

Ohhh Seeker, this touches on a particular sore spot of mine.. I have not been able to get any information about my former teacher after leaving. And as with you, I know next to nothing about her... It is driving me nuts at times. I have actually considered hiring a PI in Denmark just to get some more information. I just might still do it....

Thanks for the great welcome! You guys are so alive. If there is one thing that crushed most inside about the Concept:Synergy chat room is the stamping out of strong, expressed individuality and "non-canned" aliveness.

Well, where to begin?

Tradevest was the name of the Concept:Synergy MLM. It was introduced immediately after several Lazaris seminars in San Francisco -- to all those in attendance at the seminars who chose to stay and listen (there was also a flier advertising an "amazing opportunity to work even more closely with Lazaris, Jach, and Peny" mailed to all of us weeks before the first MLM meeting.

The concept was this: buy all the consumer products, travel, and automotive leases you normally purchase, but buy them through the Tradevest Products Catalog national wherehouse (like the old Best Products company or Consumers Distributing -- but without the 'brick and morter' local stores) and a small percentage of your purchase will go toward an anuity that you can cash in -- in 20 years. This "amount" was alleged to come from a portion of the "great savings" realized by not having brick and morter stores. Sound "Dot Bomb" familiar?

IMO -- it was an unspoken: manipulative yuppie public image competitive consumerist shark feed. And yes, IMO Peny was the classic tacky "dress for success" Animal Farm "four legs". The thought of it now just sickens me absolutely.

When it all fell appart, we who invested hundreds of dollars to become Lazaris "metaphysically trained Tradevest associates" were told that a Tradevest board member had abscanded with "all the money" and all bets -- existing annuities and all -- were off!

This after Jach and Peny, week after week had paraded infront of we, many Lazaris Tradevest seminar "trainees" how much money they were making -- hand over fist -- and all the great new luxury items they *now* could afford and were buying through (you guessed it-) Tradevest.

I thank God I only lost $185 dollars (plus God only knows how I much spent on Lazaris Tradevest Success "Seminars" --) and gave up when none of my "conventionally" successful peers --and more wise elders... in the non-New Age prosperity cult world would let me 'Amway assault' them.

My friend Vince, who works for the Fed Board of Governors, told me after a Tradevest "guest event" meeting that the whole thing was misguided and financially dangerous. I should have listened.

As far as I am aware, Peny, Michael, and Jach never refunded a cent of money lost by we "Lazaris Tradevest Seminar" trainees. Instead, Peny went silent, changed her name from Peny Prestini to Peny North (Michael Prestini changed his to Michael North). They then moved Concept:Synergy completely out of the Bay Area to Beverly Hills and eventually to Florida -- Tradevest's original "corporate home".

**********

Katie, the Compuserve Lazaris chat room was set on fire several times with former Tradevest "trainees" raising the subject and being absolutlely spiritually gang beaten. At that time there was one particular far right wing, "expert" blowhard male member in the Compuserve chat room who seemed to be a huge 'fire stoke' for Penny's radical / overnight far-right wing political 'flip flop' from publicly-avowed: "very liberal (likely related to her, IMO socially abominable and financially conscienceless behavior with and following Tradevest).

Look at any mean, rich (hey - I love inspirational wealthy people, but -- !) far right wing blowhard and you'll likely find a trail of human wreckage behind them that they're attempting to blot out with tremendous 'enemies list' think -- and social bluster.

At one point, Peny posted in the Compuserve Lazaris chatroom her sincere hope that President Clinton would get "a fatal STD" as a result of his FDR/Ike/JFK-like addicted sexual behavior. I mean, my God.

I sense that the woman may indeed self-destruct physiologicly. IMO, to be frank -- she appears, by all rational and metaphysical measure to have long left the relm of remorse for (and consequent, potential consequent reversal of -) her drive to bloody people spiritually in this present lifetime.

Inside, yes -- we are all the same. You, me, Mousalini, Miloslavitch, Peny. The outer, worldly manifestation, however -- .

IMO there is just cause for public exposure and discipline here -- not punishment.

********

And Katie, my closest frind (also an ex Lazaris hot head... :0) caries more than the standard actuarial amount of body weight. However, she exercises aerobicly, daily and eats a great healthy diet. In fact, I saw this guy on TV last week who does Ironman triathalons and looks overweight. It turns out that he wins triathalons! Apparently, we all have a genetic perfect body weight -- some of us are just destin by nature to cary more body mass than others.

Peny, on the other hand, in my considered personal opinion is morbidly obese. Morbid obesity ipso facto means: toxic, over-acidic blood; resultant low brain oxygenation, and that good 'ole, tried and true resultant human behavior pattern of dominating/*overwhelming*, nasty, thoughtless behavior. Yep -- IMO, that's Peny. And I should know very well, I've been deep, deep -- deep! inside flab bod junk food city -- and back.

It goes like this: pollute the blood stream with bad eating and idiotic and/or too little exercise and you don't have to focus on the pain you have generated in your life -- and for others. Because, if your brain cannot focus due to toxic blood / low oxygen -- you loose the ability to thoughtfully feel. One cannot feel with adult maturity without first thoughtfully focussing upon that which one has feelings about.

Which is not to say Peny is numb, lord knows both she and Jach have been known -- by we, and so many we now know -- to explode thoughtlessly at even the smallest imagined infraction.

*******

And, yes -- it would be so cool to do a get together here in the SF Bay Area Katie! :0) Perhaps a group potluck picnic type thing in a beautiful spot when good Spring weather arrives?

:0)
Steve

Thank you for all this information you're sharing! This is only a short note and I'll post more later, but I just wanted to mention concerning your words on taking care of your health. I remember sitting in a seminar and hearing Lazaris say that how food affects you is all a matter of belief. He was very specific in saying if you believe eating the highest fat meals with tons of gravey, whatever, was good for you and not harmful then you could eat however much of it you wanted...it was no more hurtful or helpful than eating vegetables and low fat if that's what you believed...you create your own reality you know.

Thinking of it now I realize just how incredibly and outrageously irresponsible a statement that was to make, but how self-serving and convenient for Peny if she does have poor eating habits.

It makes me mad to think of how many people might have put their health in jeopardy by this unethical justification of Peny's personal choices for food.

Again, I'm so glad to see you here! Thanks for sharing what you know!

I also remember: Lazaris' loud admonitions about the nutritional stupidity of vegetarians, then the "longevity" seminars telling us that we *must* become vegetarians in order to experience the greatest longevity *and* spirituality, then Peny's Compuserve Lazaris chat room detailed B-12 vitamin deficency crisis and big switch to a high protein meat-based diet, her making fun of a famous macrobiotic chef as "pushing her books" because she couldn't make enough money "ha ha", etc.

Our spiritual role model..

Ah! Such towering, expert, deputy Eric Cartman mystic AUTHORITAH.. .

Steve

Thanks for all the information about TradeVest. Magically creating abundance, indeed!

You wrote, [[If there is one thing that crushed me most inside about the Concept:Synergy chat room is the stamping out of all expressed individuality and "non-canned" aliveness.]]

Yeah, spontaneity and individuality are not welcome in the Forum. Too dangerous. We can't have people thinking for themselves, can we? As I mentioned recently, humor is also severely lacking. I've seen jokes and poems attacked for being "politically incorrect". One would think that it would be safe to post outside of the political threads, but it isn't. People have been attacked for the most trivial of reasons.

You wrote, [[At one point, Peny posted in the Compuserve Lazaris chat room her hope that President Clinton would get a fatal STD as a result of his "bad boy" adolescent behavior. I mean, my God -- come on!]]

Interesting. My first scuffle in the Forum was when I responded to a post of Peny's where she was upset that a Democratic politician had said that she hoped that Clarence Thomas' wife would feed him a fatty diet so he would die soon. She said she couldn't imagine a Republican saying something like that and getting away with it. I wrote that I personally knew Republicians who have said things like that and that Democrats were not the only ones who would make such statements.

Of course I received many a post expressing outrage that I would question Peny. After I apologized - my first lesson in dealing with these sycophants - Peny graciously invited me back into the fold. She let her cronies handle this one. I was sincerely concerned that I may have hurt her. Oh, how irresponsible of me to hold Peny to the same standards as everyone else!

I wonder how many of the sycophants who attacked me were aware of her statement about Clinton and blinded themselves to the double standard.

I also noticed the descrepancies with "Lazaris'" nutritional advice. On one of the early Health tapes, they say that, though nutrition is a matter of belief, red meat has the highest threashold, followed by poultry, fish and then vegitarian diet. Then I saw posts in the Forum from the Gang where they were advocating meaty diets.

It is rather amusing that anyone would pay attention to Peny's health advice. That's like taking sensitivity training from David Duke[lol].

Ted and Katie, I am so glad that you put up this site! I feel antagonism towards CS not for what has happened to me, but for what has happened to some people I know. The way that they treat certain people on the forum is DISGUSTING!!!! I told one of my friends, who goes to the CS forum, that if those people are an example of what it's like to be spiritually aware--please keep me in the dark. They are cruel and malicious and, I believe, rotten to the core.

It's just my opinion though .

Like I said before, some of us appreciate what you are doing. I'll be around again.

Welcome, and thanks for sharing. It will be nice to hear what more you might have to say.
I'm glad you're planning to stick around.

Yes, as you know, I agree that the behavior in the Forum is disgusting, and as far from "spiritual" as anyone can get.

Sorry you have friends who are being mistreated there. We do too, and we were too. There is no excuse for the behavior there toward others on the part of the Gang and the faithful.

I look forward to hearing from you again, maybe you have some other thoughts you'd like to share with us about what is going on there.

I'm glad that our site has value for you.

All the best,

I know that you know who I am and that you know why I won't say any more about what has happened in the forum regarding my friends. : ) It's a relief because I couldn't send you an e-mail right away to let you know because I was on someone else's computer.

When I learned what they were doing and saying about you and Ted it made me sick to my stomach. How dare they treat people like that!! How dare they treat any of you like that. I don't understand why they do that either--very bad business. Most businesses WANT their customers to come back.

I think that they know it's unraveling and in my opinion the next thing that's going to happen is that Jach is going to decide that he doesn't want to channell any more. They already stopped the travelling so I'm sure that that is next. Of course, only selfish and spiritually unaware people will be upset about his decision. Can't you just hear them saying that? I don't know--I just feel that they are a bunch of hypocrites and that's why I get so upset.

Well, I'll have to stop my rambling now and hit the sack. Have a great day everyone.

It's the same story as most of you anyway--LOL--so you know what it's all about.

Okay, bye. : )

How brave and wonderful of you to post here.
I only just recently realized who you are.
Your identity is safe with us, that I promise you. I would eat my computer before giving up your or anyone's identity.

Feel assured, that you are between several walls of security here. Your ISP is not one which will serve up your identity to anyone less than the FBI or CIA. Don't make any bomb threats, or write fan letters to the Unibomber and all will be well!! (LOL)

God/Goddess bless you for writing here!!

I am sure, and will take care that your love in doing so does not in anyway cause anyone any pain.

For those who don't know who this person is, let me just tell you that her participation here is an act of bravery and fierce love.

This is not to negate the value or courage of anyone else's posts, but just to affirm it for dolphingirl, because I know why she is here.

Welcome, dear dolphingirl, I am so delighted to see you here.

Lots of love,

Katie

A belated welcome to you[g].

Thanks for having the courage to speak out here. I certainly can understand your outrage.

You wrote: [[I think that they know it's unraveling and in my opinion the next thing that's going to happen is that Jach is going to decide that he doesn't want to channell any more.]]

That would be interesting, considering that "Lazaris" has said that Jach is committed to channeling for the rest of his life. Wouldn't be the first contradiction though. It would probably be cloaked in the notion that we have all learned everything they could teach us or something like that. That would appeal to people's egos[g]. Or maybe the knowledge is stored in the crystals that C:S is selling - that way they can keep the money coming in. Yeah, that's it. Of course, only those evolved enough will be able to extract the knowledge - that'll keep people from saying they haven't gotten knowledge from the crystals[lol].