My name is Malene, and Katie invited me to stop in and open my big gap, or as it happens let me fingers do the talking :o). I was in a cult group which I lived with for 5 years now around 6 years back. The group I was in was somewhat new age inspired, but it called itself a sufi trance dancing group. We did all sorts of meditations, trance dancing and other trance techniques. We also lived together and traveled together a lot. Eventually I was partially kicked out, and partially I decided not to obey an order which I knew would get me kicked out.

Anyways, I have been reading over the posts, and the heart ache that I see in Katie's and Ted's stories, and it strikes a chord in me. I know very well about the pain of being judged in the name of God. It is a traumatic experience. There are some obvious to my eyes similarities between Katie’s and Ted's story and my own story.

I remember quite clearly the first year after I had been kicked out of the group. I went and lived in the forest for 3-4 months, because I was so distraught and couldnt deal with the world anymore. Anyways I figured God was about to strike me dead so I could just as well give up trying to live. During that time there was a lot of hard discernment going on for me. Part of me KNEW without a shadow of a doubt that what had happened to me in the group was wrong. As plain and simple as that. It was wrong. On the other hand I knew with as much certainty that some of the things that I had experienced while in the group was beyond explanation, and I knew that there was just so much good and fantastic in that group. I couldnt reconcile those two things. It was impossible for me to explain to myself and to others how something so good could go so wrong. Today I know that all cults have something good. If for no other reason than that they need something to lure people in. If there is absolutely nothing there then there is no bait. The challenge becomes to hold on to that which was good in such a group. To not allow that to become corrupted or damaged, while not allowing the abuse. Part of my discernment has been, and is, to find the kernels of truth and goodness which was in the group and take that with me, while speaking out to stop the abuse done in the name of God. During my time in the forest I promised myself never to betray that which was good in my group. I strive to keep that promise to myself.

This is part of the reason why I hid in the forest. I did not want to listen to anyone. Not to my old group condemning me towards God, nor to my parents, friends or anyone they might hire to tell me how terrible the group was. I knew about the good there, I was not going to sit around and listen to other people who would never understand that.

It is with those memories that I tell those of you who are just not sure what to think of Lazaris and concept: synergy to check it out yourself. Dont trust Katie’s and Ted's words. Dont trust my words. But during this time of discernment, I would suggest that you do it the less painful way and listen to all the points of view as opposed to none of the points of view. Flipping out and going homeless during such a time the way I did it is just not any fun. At the bottom of this email I will include some links to web sites that give excellent descriptions of what cults and mind control are. Read those descriptions, read how they work within such diverse groups such as the moonies, scientology, some fundamentalistic christian groups, and many other cultic groups.

With this information you will much better be equipped to ask yourself the hard questions, and decide whether or not you think you should stay in touch with concept: synergy. This will be your decision alone. Noone will try to talk you into anything, but, you will know with yourself that you have done the research, checked it out and your conclusion is the one that is right for you.

If you do not listen to the doubt in the pit of your stomach and check this out now, I doubt that it will ever get better for you. There will always be this little nagging doubt and discomfort that just maybe you should have checked into this a little further. I know that is atleast the way it was for me. I did believe that it was due to my own weakness I had those doubts, but I just couldnt do away with them. Now, I wish I had listened to that doubt a little before, but atleast I did listen eventually.

Now, since there is a doubt, since you are reading these pages and these postings then do yourself the favor and check it out. Just should Katie and Ted be the ones who knows something that you need to listen to, and you dont listen, the price you will pay lies in years being in a abusive group, of not standing up to stop the abuse done to others, of maybe at times being the abuser as well, since that is the way such groups function, and of being abused yourself. Ultimately it is your own relationship to God which is what we are talking about here. To me it would be important to ask myself the question if my relationship to God is better from being in touch with the group that I am currently in touch with. Not asking those questions are a pretty big risk to take without doing some kind of risk assesment and finding out for your very own what you think is the correct answer.

Atleast that is the way I look at it. You might disagree with me, and that is way cool too, I enjoy and welcome disagreements at any time :o).

So, after this you might ask, how am I doing now after having been out of the group for 6 years. I am doing well. I have a fantastic job which I enjoy, and make good money at. I have a husband whom I adore. I am rebuilding my life, getting new friendships. I am regaining my spirituality step by step, and more than anything I feel a sense of freedom that I never felt in the group.

It took me until around a year and a half ago before I dared to question whether or not the group I had been in was indeed cultic. My research showed me that it had many of the characteristics associated with cults. It was a relief to see, and at the same time shocking, I had never before considered even asking the question. As much as I want to remain true to that which was good in the group I don’t think any of it is an excuse to tamper with peoples free mind and choice, nor to create the kind of hurt I know was created in me, all in the name of God.

I am grateful for where I am at today, for what I have learned and grown with, and for the freedom which is now mine to live my life according to what I truely believe is right.

Good luck in your search for your answers, please dont hesitate to ask me any questions you might have about this topic. I will do my best to share the resources I used, and the experiences which led me to the realization that is mine today.

Malene

A few web sites to check out:

http://www.freedomofmind.com
http://www.csj.org
http://www.refocus.org
http://www.trancenet.org

Wow, thank you for writing.

I want everyone here to know that you have been an inspiration and a guiding light for me in the process I have gone through in understanding that C/S is a cult, and in having the courage to stand up and have my voice.

The personal story you tell in your post is so relevant to our experience, even though the group is different.

Some of us have had our worst experiences in the "Jach and Lazaris" Forum an internet message board where abuse abounds in the name of love.

I met you on another message board, a cult awareness board, where the interactions are strikingly different. You reached out to me, with compassion, understanding and a wisdom that I recognized could only have come from your experience which was so similar to mine (ours).

In the J&L Forum it is confirmed over and over again that posters are in a "safe place" and that abuse will not be tolerated, yet those who promise this safety are themselves the perpetrators of intense spiritual and psychological abuse.

After four years of regular participation and posting there, I came to the cult awareness board with an ingrained sense of "appropriateness" as defined by the J&L forum.

Your posts there, yours especially shone a light for me, and I quickly recognized a healed, self contained mind. I am grateful to you for that, and grateful to you for posting here. You helped me to understand what the meaning of the word "appropriate" really is. You speak with clarity, assurance, and with a clear sense of yourself...with true dignity.

On the surface, our experiences are different, but in spirit and function, they are the same. Our minds were taken over and manipulated, our souls were invaded, and our sense of self eroded.

You have overcome, and gone on to devote yourself to supporting others who are in the process of overcoming. You have triumphed and in your triumph you inspire others to know that there is light, love, and hope outside of whatever group has functioned to keep others in a constant state of self-doubt and confusion. You are honest, clean, clear, and best of all you don't take yourself too seriously. You're a fun and easy person to know.

I celebrate you Malene, and I thank you so much for sharing here with us.

Today I have had my first intimate glimpse into the soul and spirit of another who is posting here.

I find myself in the presence of a great beauty and light, in all of you posting here and I am awed and honored. The light is shining, and the view it affords is simply wonderful. We are talking freedom here, freedom of mind, freedom of soul.

When Ted and I were inspired to create this site we had no idea what to expect. We wanted to have our voice and we bristled against the censorship and character assassination we had been subjected to. We were braced for the worst, but we are now experiencing the best.

Now I am beginning to see that we have allowed for an experience beyond our dreams, the experience of sharing and communicating with truly beautiful sincere and compassionate souls.

I once had fears about putting up this site, now I am joyous and excited beyond words.

Thank you for coming and sharing Malene, I'm honored beyond words.

All the best to you,

I am blown away today, I must admit.

Malene, I forgot to thank you for the links.

Steve Hassan's book, site, and the freedomofmind message board have been invaluable to me.

Thanks for posting the links.

Thank you so much for the beautiful words, I am not sure I deserve all that, but thanks anyways :o).

As for the abuse. There is no excuse in my mind for abuse done in the name of God or Love. What God allows mere human mortals to abuse other humans who trust in the name of God? I dont think so!!! Not my God anyways. That does not erase the good things groups have. However the good things does not excuse the abusive behaviours. The price is too high.

Welcome to the site. I very much enjoyed your post here. I've also enjoyed your posts on the Freedom of Mind board. I've been a "lurker" there. Perhaps I will post soon.

Your insights about cultish behavior are very inspiring. I congratulate you on leaving your cult.

Nice meeting ya :o). Thanks for the kind words, I try my best to stand up to abuse, and to let people benefit from what I have been through.

Just a quick note to say thank you so much for having the courage and compassion of heart to share such an intimate story with us here. Sounds like to me you're quite a Mapmaker [g].

Hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I'll post more after the holidays. You've given me a lot to think about! Thanks for the links and the gift of empowerment!

Thanks for the kind words. I wish you all the best in your questioning, I know how unsettling a time it can be. I hope for you that you find the answer that will give you the strongest connection to the Spirit, or God or whatever you call that connection.

These kinds of questions are so intensely personal and it is that important that our questioning is internalized and the answers we find are the answers which we believe will bring us the closest to God as we understand God.

As I said.. For me.. my testimony is that I will not allow abuse in the name of God. I dont believe that is what God wants, and I dont believe any human is so clean that they can claim to be above the human frailties we all have. Which means no human is so clean that they can be permitted to make judgements on us, in the name of God. When I see judgements passed in the name of God, I will stand up and oppose it with all my strength. I will be counted in that fight.

God makes the Judgement. When my time is up, I will meet God. I will be judged fairly by God I am sure of that.

Therefore I have to live life now, with all its complexity, intense beauty, and pain as well, the best I can according to what I believe God wants from me.

Noone can take away the difficulty and responsibility of doing that. Noone no matter how great the promises are, can give me an easy escape from living my life the best I can. From struggling with the difficult questions we sometimes have to struggle with. From grieving for the people whom I have loved and still love, and from the sometimes unbelievable joy and beauty of coming home to my husband and discover yet again today how much he loves me. Or a sunrise over the ocean when it feels like Gods influence is permeating everything. And then I leave the sunrise, and I see a sick suffering human, and I cant explain it.. and it is scary, because I have such a strong belief in God, but how can he allow such suffering? Cults often offer easy explanations to such things, maybe the quick and easy explanation you heard whas that God would not interfere with our free choice and we were responsible for creating our own lives... I have learned that there are no such easy explanations. It is all just part of Life. There are plenty of explanations which might be either partially correct, or have some of the answer.. but they cant just be applied across the board.

How could God even have allowed that someone with as strong a faith as I, was abused in his very name? The abuse I went through nearly killed me. Maybe one of these days I will post the story of abuse I went through while being held back against my will. How could a loving God allow that? Why are there no easy answers?

These are complex, difficult questions, and I just dont believe they are easily answered, and I dont believe someone who claims to have easy answers to such questions. It is my personal struggle to make sense of what I have been through, and then use it all to the best of my ability hopefully to make it just a little bit easier for someone else. Hopefully I can use whatever I have been through and reach out my hand in compassion and make someone elses trail a little easier... That is the only meaning I can find.

It is funny, one of the "teachings" of my old group was that as we grew spiritually we would become both untouchable, and at the same time more vulnerable. Meaning that noone could touch us because we were that independent, but because of the (supposed) great love we had for all we would also be more vulnerable to hurt. Well, the truth is, they never acted like they really loved me, nor like they were more vulnerable. They often acted like they hated my guts. And when something happened and I gave into the pressure of acting a way they wanted me to act, or having an opinion they wanted me to have, then they would tell me how happy they were for my progress. I dont see that as love though. I never did see any of that supposed loving vulnerability.

However, since I left, I have learned how vulnerable I can truely feel when I dont have the certainty of knowing the answers to all the questions, and without the false prop of my group behind me.

I have also learned of being (almost) violently independent because noone will ever again get blind trust out of me.

It almost feels like I have attained that greater toughness vs. vulnerability which was so touted in the group, yet never shown, after I left the group.

Ahh well..... The ironies of life. The huge complexities that we all have to struggle with, especially those of us who are so, so idealistic.

BTW, did you know that cults specifically target strong idealistic people?

OK..I am rambling here just before Christmas. I will be gone to visit my inlaws until next year anyways, so you wont hear much from me in the meantime.

Looking forward to continuing the chats then...

Merry christmas and a very happy new years is what I wish all of you.

[[How could God even have allowed that someone with as strong a faith as I, was abused in his very name?... How could a loving God allow that? Why are there no easy
answers?"]] [[...maybe the quick and easy explanation you heard whas that God would not interfere with our free choice and we were responsible for creating our own lives...]]

Good guess[g]. That is pretty much how "Lazaris" explains it - we create our own reality completely, including the pain. This explanation satisfied me for a long time, and I'm sure there is a lot of truth to it, but I wouldn't say it's complete.

"Lazaris" also says that we chose to allow others to have impact on us. If not, then we couldn't experience love. And of course the giver of the love must have free will to give or withhold the love, otherwise it's meaningless. Makes sense. But it doesn't explain why "we chose" to allow others the ability to hurt us. We don't need to grant others the ability to hurt us in order to allow for them to love us - they could simply have no impact if they don't love us. Unless the fact they don't love us causes us pain - but that's not the same as allowing them to control, insult, or physically violate us.

As for God not intervening - people intervene where appropriate. Most of us don't stand by and watch someone suffer if we can do something about it, even if it's clear the person's suffering is a direct result of their own actions and decisions. We don't take the attitude that they made their bed, now they must lie in it. Why would God? I don't know. And I haven't found a cult yet that adequately explains that[g]. And that's OK. Perhaps sometime I will understand it, but not as a result of the "easy answers" provided by cults. Disclaimer: when I say "intervene", I don't mean to force a solution down anyone's throat, or force them to get better if they insist on remaining unhealthy. That's what I mean by, "where appropriate".

[[BTW, did you know that cults specifically target strong idealistic people?]]

That makes a lot of sense. It's the idealism that motivates people to seek answers that are allegedly provided by the opportunistic cult leaders. It also means we don't need to feel shame for having been had by them.

Thanks for your insights and have a Happy Holiday.

Ted said:

Yes, I know that explanation from my own days in the new age circles. So, I was familiar with it before I guessed :o). See, I agree with you, that is often not a half bad explanation and I will accept it very far along the way, especially because it puts me back in a position of power to change the pain. HOWEVER there are several major flaws in this ideal. One flaw is that if someone else hurts us, they can always say that it is because we need to work something out ourselves, since we "allowed" them to hurt us. In the case of my leader that became a carte blanche to hurt us, because it was a "test" to see how far we had come, and if we had not come far enough we would get hurt. There is *interaction* between humans. Sometimes that interaction becomes hurtful. We all have to acknowledge our responsibilities to ourselves AND to each other.

Ted said: <"Lazaris" also says that we chose to allow others to have impact on us.>

Ted my friend, classic example of cult circular logic. Go back up and read it again. It doesnt make sense, and it is a circle you can never get out of.

Ted said:

Exactly :o). Right on.

I said:<[[BTW, did you know that cults specifically target strong idealistic people?]]>

Ted responded:

Yes, the idealism motivates us to join, our strength ensures that we remain good and contributing members for many years. Cults cant use weak people, they dont contribute enough. So you are absolutely right. We should not be ashamed of having been in one. It was our greatest qualities that led us there. Our idealism, and desire for a better world, and our strength in working towards making it a better world. Those qualities were used against us. We need to reclaim them, and use them right this time around.

Ted said:

Thanks, and you too.

Malene

The reason the quoted parts didn't show up is because you enclosed then in < and > signs, which make the browser think that the stuff in between to HTML code. (I got the < and > to show up by typing &lt; etc. and to show how I did that I had to type &amp; in front of the lt; - never mind[g]) Long story short, it doesn't work if you enclose text between < and >.

Anyway, I checked the source code to see what you said "right on" about[g]. It was "As for God not intervening - people intervene where appropriate." The rest I was able to figure out.

[[Ted my friend, classic example of cult circular logic. Go back up and read it again. It doesnt make sense, and it is a circle you can never get out of.]]

I'm not sure why you see this as circular logic. The idea is that, since we create our own reality completely (if you buy that premise), we have/had the choice as to whether or not we will allow other people to have impact on us. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I don't see the logical flaw.

I can certainly see the potential for "blaming the victim". As you stated, cult members can refuse to take responsibility for their impact on another person by saying that the other person "created" or "allowed" the impact. In fact, some of the Lazaris cultists told me exactly that when I told Peny that she had had negative impact on me. Strangely, though she wasn't "creating her own reality" when I allegedly had negative impact on her. I was to be responsible and my impact on and her impact on me.

[[One flaw is that if someone else hurts us, they can always say that it is because we need to work something out ourselves, since we "allowed" them to hurt us.]]

Even if that's true, it doesn't excuse the party doing the hurting. If I brow beat a recovering alcoholic into having "just one drink" and they do and wind up falling off the wagon, they made the choice. But I would still be a schmuck for encouraging them. Or if I have someone sign a contract which doesn't jibe with our verbal agreement, knowing they wouldn't read the small print, I may be operating within my legal rights, but it's still unethical. Exploiting other people's weaknesses is social Darwinism and is not conducive to a civilized society, IMHO. And, with cults, it's not even a level playing field, since the "leadership" has brainwashed minions to fight their battles for them.

[[Our idealism, and desire for a better world, and our strength in working towards making it a better world. Those qualities were used against us. We need to reclaim them, and use them right this time around.]]

Right on. And it's the strength behind our idealism which will ensure that we will get it right.

No time now to really give these posts the attention they deserve.

I do want to say though, that I am not planning on throwing out the baby with the bathwater, nor am I planning to continue to invest in everything Jach has served up on his poisoned plate.

Many of the "truths" Jach provides stem from ancient belief systems, some from more modern schools, like Jungian psychology.

I no more want to believe that everything Jach says is wrong than I want to believe it is all correct. It actually doesn't matter much to me at this point. I'm not interested in Jach's teachings anymore or anyone else's for that matter.

Over these past months I have learned a lot about my own mind, and the human mind in general. I have learned that people, myself included, have a profound tendency to latch onto whatever beliefs suit them in the moment. Our recent political and social history show me that.

When OJ was accused of murdering his wife, for example, the thought of yet another black man unjustly accused bristled most blacks in this country. Therefore, no amount of evidence could "prove" to many of them that he did in fact kill Nicole. To many of us, the evidence overwhelmingly proved his guilt, to those who had other agendas, the evidence was all fabricated. Our country divided just about equally along racial lines over the issue. That is not because the evidence was difficult to absorb, it was because our country is divided racially, and this state of consciousness dramatically revealed itself in the way we all interpreted and invested in the information provided.

The same with the recent election. To Al Gore supporters the election was stolen and unjust. To Bush supporters, the system worked and all is well.

What are the facts of these situations, and how do we come to a place of "truth" about emotional issues like these? Why do so many intelligent people see things so differently?

We can fight, insult, debate, discuss, manipulate, whatever, until the cows come home. There is a Truth about these issues, no matter how divided we are on them, no matter how uncomfortable it might be for those who don't want the Truth to be what it is.

To me the problem is really that most of us really have not developed a strong integrity of thought. We let others think for us, and we respond in a positive way to the perspective which suits us emotionally. If it feels good, we believe it, if it doesn't we reject it.

No one understands this mechanism of the mind better than cult leaders. They feed us information which feels good, which suits our emotional needs in the moment. They lace fact with fiction, the ultimate goal being to create a loyal fanatical following.

It has been pointed out over and over that not everything cults serve up is wrong or untrue. Something within the teachings has to work for us, especially in the beginning.

Once we are hooked, the teachings can get as bizarre and crazy as the cult leader wants.
The followers are too mezmerized and too convinced to even bother with discrimination.

Anyway, I am now investing in learning to study the "facts", put them in a larger context, and have the strength of character to know when I am wrong. That also allows for me to be confident when I am right. That kind of confidence in myself can only come from the exercise of humility, and from a strong and firm committment to settling for nothing less than the Truth no matter how painful it might be. It was enormously painful and embarrassing to me to admit that I no longer believe in Lazaris.

One thing about the New Age that strikes me is that there is NO investment or belief in an Ultimate Truth. This childish, mindless, feel good way of looking at things makes for a huge pool of easy marks. This point was argued with me on a New Age message board by a mystery poster about whose identity I have already drawn my own conclusions. Under the guise of love and compassion, this woman argued the existance of the Truth, and the inability of anyone to know or declare that there is such a thing.

Interestingly though, those who form these New Age cults do demand and expect that followers will accept the Truth of them and their teachings without question. So, again, we have an investment in Truth, as long as the Truth works for us.

As Ted says, though, the strength behind our idealism will allow us to get it right.

Maybe the Truth is vast enough to incorporate a billion ways of looking at it.
In the end though, the Truth is what we all seek, and the only way to find it in my opinion is through the exercise of discrimination and strength of character. That is a private and personal quest, and ultimately, no one can hand the Truth to another.

The greatest teachers are those who teach by example, not by dogma. So, I will follow the example of those whose lives and relationships reflect the qualities to which I aspire. That's really the only interest I have in knowing what anyone else believes. How does it manifest in their own life?

Maybe I'll end with a line from my favorite Fab Four.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Sorry if this is rambling, I'm stealing time I can't really afford right now.

Love and Holiday Peace to all.

Another thought about using the concept of reality creation to control and abuse people: you say [[HOWEVER there are several major flaws in this ideal. One flaw is that if someone else hurts us, they can always say
that it is because we need to work something out ourselves, since we "allowed" them to hurt us.]]

I don't think that's a flaw in the ideal of reality creation. I think it's a flaw in the person using it as a club. Any Truth can be misused, but that doesn't necessarily make it untrue.

If we internalize this half-truth where someone denies their own responsibility on the basis that we created them hurting us, then we are allowing them to hurt us more. The choice is ours. We can take responsibility for the hurt we allowed by insisting that the offending person take their responsibility, and/or by getting them out of our lives. (I know that's often easier said than done, but it is within our power) So we still need to be responsible to ourselves for the pain we allow others to inflict on us, but it doesn't get them off the hook. If they think it does, then they are missing a growth opportunity. But that's their problem.

It's interesting how these people who excuse their own behaviour by telling those they hurt that they caused or allowed their own pain, but then they cry foul when someone hurts them. It's the difference between using Truth to grow or to manipulate. But it's the use of the Truth that's at fault, not the Truth itself.

New Age publications routinely print articles written by or about allegedly channeled entities. That in itself is OK. What I find disturbing is that these phenemena are reported as fact. "Jach Pursel channels a non-physical entity named Lazaris" is not a fact - it is a claim. The mainstream press - as irresponsible as they can be at times - would never print a line like that other than on the editorial page. The fact is, "Jach Pursel claims to channel...". While it's possible that his claim is correct, it is not factual. A fact is something that has been proven.

Of course this doesn't negate the role of the reader's responsibility to discern. This lack of discernment permeates the New Age community. It seriously discredits the truthful tenets within "New Age". (One may say that none of the truthful tenets is "new", but many are nonetheless associated with the New Age movement) The publisher of one of the larger New Age publications told us that he suspected that Jach may be faking it. Yet his magazine has published "Lazaris'" words on a number of occasions with no disclaimer.

One irony is that "Lazaris" stress responsibility. This blind acceptance of unsubstantiated "facts" is extremely irresponsible. Many New Agers accept, with little or no evidence, concepts such as extra-terrestrial communication and experimentation, various nonsensical alternative healing techniques, etc. Some of this can be very dangerous.

Another irony is that the Orlando Gang consistantly decries the alleged irresponsibility of the mainstream "liberal" press, but have nothing to say about the New Age media's blind acceptance of Lazaris. Even if I still believed in Lazaris, I would consider it irresponsible to report these phenomena as factual - as I've always been uncomfortable with their acceptance of Ramtha, whom I have believed for a long time to be fraudulant.

Granted, it's not the job of the New Age media to try to debunk charlatans. Then again, maybe it is. The mainstream media have their investigative reporters - why not the New Age media? But even if they don't want to take on the task of debunking, they can still report facts as facts and claims as claims. Problem is, if they were to report New Age issues with the proper disclaimers, almost everything they reported would have a disclaimer attached. And people may become suspect. We can't have that - it doesn't "feel good". Nor is it as profitable.

There is a lot of great information on Steve's site, but I have found myself returning to this talk on several occassions. I think it's a powerful statement, not only about what happened in Waco, but as a definition of the form and function of cults. Reading this article is one of the reasons that I began to come to the conclusion that C/S functions as a cult.

Here are some exerpts from Steve's talk in discussiong cult techniques:

"Telling people that if you have a negative thought about the leader or the doctrine the group, that it's coming from your reactive mind, or it's coming from your fallen nature, or it's coming from Satan, and so you should chant, or pray, or meditate, or speak in tongues to get rid of the negative thought." (for us it's the "negative-ego" and we should use tapes, or attend seminars to process, process, process)

Steve goes on: "And what happens when an intelligent person is not allowed to have doubts, or is not allowed to think negative thoughts? Well, all you're left with are positive thoughts. Your negative thoughts all get suppressed. What happens then? Reality testing is undermined. There's no way of testing out your environment. And so very bright, talented people can become extremely dependent on someone who says, "I HAVE THE ANSWERS......

.......someone under mind control, in a mind control cult, can't imagine leaving the group and living a happy, fulfilled life. They can only generate negative imagery, and only hear negative words in their minds.

Steve goes on to discuss the "dual identity" concept, in which a person who is cultified adopts a cult identity which is different from their authentic identity. It is the part of them which behaves irrationally in response to cult indoctrination. Evidently the dual identity is present in the cult leader as much as in the followers.

Speaking about David Koresh, Steve says:
"So this dual identity concept is very important. I've read in reports where the negotiators would say that David Koresh would one moment be very rational, very warm and easy-going and communicative, and then all of a sudden he'd snap and he'd become this raving lunatic. And they described it as mood swings. Well, from my perspective, it wasn't a mood swing, it was an identity shift that was going on."

Scary thought isn't it? Is it possible that to create this little cult of his own, Jach has assumed the identity of Lazaris? And what about Peny's rants and ravings? Does the description of Koresh remind you of her? It does me. One never knows what will push Peny's buttons or send her over the edge into a rage siege. The same for her Gang, and for many devoted followers.
Have you ever been reading along in the Forum, just finished a post which seemed innocent enough to you, and then all of a sudden in rushes someone in a self-righteous fit, going on and on about negative ego and impact? That happened(s?) so many times in the Forum, I'm sure it's the reason that very few are willing to post. I sure know that I held my breath every time I pushed that "submit" button. You literally never knew what and when you would push a button, and off you go. As I think about that in the light of Steve's explanation, I can see that it is very likely that many Forum members, and especially the Gang have these alternate cult identities which allow them to behave in ways which would never ever be accepted in society at large. The comfort and protection of the group (cult) allows them to shift into these irrational modes with no contest. I have to be honest, I've done it myself. I've done it in the Forum, and in my personal life. Damn it, I did it yesterday in response to a perceived slight and in the aftermath of an emotional trauma. It takes time to recover one's authentic self. I can only say that at least I had the sense to think, think, and think some more before acting, and to take the time today to evaluate and understand what happened. Practice makes perfect.

Steve goes on to say:
"People involved with destructive cults are not to blame. They're not crazy. They're not weak. They're not stupid." He suggests that at the time of joining, people are too vulnerable to ask legitimate questions. I think we all went in so enamored of the promises of personal power, magic, abundance, prosperity, love, and enlightenment which Lazaris had convinced us that we needed their help to get, that we didn't take a close look at the background and origins of this story of the "channeled entity", who Jach Pursel and Peny North were before Lazaris, and how Concept/Synergy functions. Much of that information of course is unavailable to us. Try asking about it, and beyond the inconsistent canned answers, you will be trashed and accused of invasion of privacy and lack of respect. Of that, I am quite confident.

Something else that Steve said glared out at me:
"And I believe legitimate organizations will tell people up front who they are, what they believe, and what they expect of them. And if people don't want to belong any longer, they go, "Good luck!" They don't say, "If you leave, Satan will possess you!" "If you leave, you will lose your entire existence!" or "If you leave, you will get cancer!" or "If you leave, you will go insane!" But destructive mind control cults do do that. So this for me is a human rights issue, it's a consumer rights issue, and I believe again that I'm not interested in criticizing a group's beliefs, but I criticize a group's actions, when it undermines people's civil liberties."
Do any of you recall Peny's parting shot at me? "Katie, you have just thrown your spirituality out the window". What a threat, to me, to all those reading along, to imply that without her I could have no spirituality. I wasn't disputing Lazaris in that final offending thread, I was disputing PENY, and because of that, I lost my spirituality? My God! Yes, this is a human rights issue, and for those of you reading along, these are the words of a wise and intelligent man who has done extensive work and research on mind control and destructive cults. These actions and behaviors within the Forum and C/S are literal human rights violations, not just some uncomfortable but loving little negative ego jostlings as they claim.

When asked if all cult leaders are con men Steve replied in part:
"There are a number of con-men who are heads of cults, but the vast number, in my experience, are people who really believe their stuff, and as I mentioned before, and that they themselves were victims of a cult. L. Ron Hubbard, the head of Scientology, was a follower of Aleister Crowley, by the way. Werner Erhardt, head of est and Forum, he was once a Scientologist! Moon was involved with a cult in Korea called the Monastery of Israel. Most con-men, they want to make money, and then they want to split. They don't want to get caught, and they don't want to have problems, they don't stay around. But cult leaders make decisions based on that they really think that what they're doing is good and justified and that they're above the law and such."

We have been told by reliable sources that Jach studied Silva Mind Control method. I don't know if that group is a cult or not, but he was also involved in some big razzle dazzle MLM group, and many of those have been shown to employ cult like mind control and manipulation techniques. I'm not saying that Jach was in a cult, but I can clearly see where he got his training and inspiration to start one.

Steve has so much to say, I encourage anyone who is interested to check out his site. I'll finish this post with these words of Steve's with which I greatly agree.

"Ultimately, I think our future lies in each person taking responsibility through choice, through information, and not just denying. I think there's a tremendous fear that people have in thinking about mind control. Because they think, "It could never happen to me. You know, it's those weak people over there! It could never happen to me!" Well, if you have that belief, and you don't understand mind control, it can happen to you. In fact, it's very easy to manipulate someone who's convinced that they can't be manipulated."

Katie